PvP Problems

[Kebabz]

Why is so many people complaining about a competitive gameplay not catering to casuals? Sure competitiveness can be a fun factor, but honestly, you don't need to be competitive in silly ratings to have fun. There is a big difference between competitive being fun and actual fun pvp. Competitiveness can be a factor yes, but it is not the deciding factor. It is how fun and rewarding the pvp is, not how competitive it is.

 

They didn't think of make it fun though, they just created something everybody could play, but didn't give it a second thought whether it was fun or not. They just assumed that when everybody can easily play everything stuff would be funny. This is not the case.

 

There can easily be pvp everybody can play, but also be fun. But right now everybody can play the pvp, because it is just running around in circles, and that is not fun.

[ReckonerH]

Why is so many people complaining about a competitive gameplay not catering to casuals?

 

I dont think people are complaining about competitive gameplay not catering to casuals, what people are complaining about is that OP thinks he's making that argument but he'snot. What OP is talking about is competitive gameplay catering to gear grinders. OP makes it sound like the best way to have pvp work is to have people grind for long periods to get their gear instead of actually relying on skills acquired through playing on an even playing field.

[Laserstrike]

I dont think people are complaining about competitive gameplay not catering to casuals, what people are complaining about is that OP thinks he's making that argument but he'snot. What OP is talking about is competitive gameplay catering to gear grinders. OP makes it sound like the best way to have pvp work is to have people grind for long periods to get their gear instead of actually relying on skills acquired through playing on an even playing field.

 

 

Exactly.

[KakiroX]

I agree with the OP's points, but not on premade ques.

 

Just *********** NO. That KILLED pvp in Rift for a lot of people. They made it so if you had more than 2 people in a group you got put in a premade ques. Well, all the premades did was sync que in groups of two, and the premade que CROSS SERVER was like 45 mins. Just...No

Edited December 13, 2011 by KakiroX

[bornindarkness]

you are complaining about pvp reward mate..you want to be the best pvp player out of this game just because you can play more than others, and i am afraid but the fact that you can play more than me cant be considered as an effort, for real guys.

 

in conclusion i have a wish for BW:

 

i wish the warzone/pvp area will be only accessible while naked, true skillz

 

This, or let the gear be cosmetic only and by that avoid what happens in other games where uber nolifers that call themselves hardcore pvpers get the best gear and go zerg noobs in bgs or rvr zones, and then link kill messages in global /general, and call everyone a *********** noob and other humiliating names. Want to show off your skill, show it on even ground.

As far as I see it, your post is a bunch of QQing paragraphs, from the minority of the players.

One more thing, but without you and the likes of you thegame will survive and prosper, but without me and the likes of me the game will become a ghost town.

With that said, I have to add that every mmo I played I picked a pvp server.

[Kwll]

People that pvp only for rewards are the people that quit as soon as said rewards are earned. If you dont like to pvp for the fights sake you are not going to last long with the game anyway. Basically you need a carrot to chase or you wont be happy. I've see it in every game. Edited December 13, 2011 by Kwll

[Darkmagicxk]

Extremely well written original post. Agree with all the well thought out points made.

 

And to answer this person:

 

Yet still allowing the Casual Gamer majority of players to remain reasonably competitive against the minority full-time gamers; otherwise, the Casual Gamer majority will get frustrated and cancel. A discontent majority is far worse than a discontent minority.

 

The hardcore gamers keep the casual players going. It gives the casual players a "standard of excellence" to surpass, or compare themselves to what they would want to become should they invest more time into the game. Ultimately as for business creating the high investment "grind worthy" items for pvp'ers would mean longer subscription times, people not getting bored as fast etc.

 

It is silly and childish to think that Bioware should give casual gamers all the perks/benefits/gear/rewards as dedicated hardcore gamers when it comes to pvp. Reversing the roles you wouldn't expect them to give me (a pvper) exceptional pve gear without doing the work to get it. There is a large market of gamers who prefer to pvp as shown in the recent years of games making huge changes/decisions based on pvp.

 

This thread is definitely something that Bioware should take heed of.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Darkmagicxk

[Gryffin]

I think the current system, that is, PvP for gear, is not a truly worthy system. If all was perfect in my world then gear would be cosmetic or would play a limited role in attracting people to PvP. Alas, it's not the case and the gear grind is here and here to stay.

 

The OP raises many good points and I think the balance between Open and Instanced PvP is the most valid. With gear primarily being the main reason to PvP (in addition to the blanket statement 'fun' of course), Open World PvP needs to either supply more rewards when compared with Warzones OR it needs it's own system that rewards participation. If you wish to limit PvP to grinding gear then unique gear, only available through Open World PvP would be one option. However, if you're like me and wish to see a system that goes beyond gear, then you may like something along the lines of the following.

 

- Faction or Clan Sovereignty

 

That is, develop large, open worlds where factions/clans gain control over settlements which provide said faction/clan with benefits. The benefits being such that the opposite faction as a whole or clans from said faction will be tempted to wrestle control from the occupiers. The advantages to the game are clear.

 

- Direct faction/clan competition.

- Alliances between clans to retain control. (Relevant alliances are hardly ever seen in PvE focused games, sadly)

- Better guild interface to facilitate those alliances.

 

With such a system, Gear no longer is the driving force behind PvP, Faction/Clan warfare becomes the driving force. Gear would just be a prerequisite to efficient contribution. A POSITIVE THING if you ask me.

 

Let us not also forget that there are also certain game mechanics/design policies that hinder anything like this happening.

 

- Linear world design.

 

Chokepoints by the dozen don't make for good Open PvP. Give us open worlds like Tatooine that encourage more than Thermopylae skirmishing in gorges.

 

- Hideous, HIDEOUS INSTANCING!!!

 

Yeah, I don;t like it. Even the cap of 250-300 or whatever it is at is itself a hinderence to anything like what I described above. There are already large clans of multiple hundreds of people and they want to kill eachother in large wars, many of which are simply extentions of old conflicts from other games. This is GOOD for PvP and deserves to be fostered, not stunted by sharding/instancing or whatever you want to call it.

 

 

This is something I would like to see. Bioware can continue their gear grind design but the moment clans can invest assets into a PvP environment, that's the moment real competition begins and not only for the benefit of the clans. All can benefit from such activity, even soloers or small gang roamers. Large scale clan roams won't be the norm of course. It would make for a healthy community and I commend this proposal to the forum goers and Bioware!

[Kebabz]

I think the current system, that is, PvP for gear, is not a truly worthy system. If all was perfect in my world then gear would be cosmetic or would play a limited role in attracting people to PvP. Alas, it's not the case and the gear grind is here and here to stay.

 

The OP raises many good points and I think the balance between Open and Instanced PvP is the most valid. With gear primarily being the main reason to PvP (in addition to the blanket statement 'fun' of course), Open World PvP needs to either supply more rewards when compared with Warzones OR it needs it's own system that rewards participation. If you wish to limit PvP to grinding gear then unique gear, only available through Open World PvP would be one option. However, if you're like me and wish to see a system that goes beyond gear, then you may like something along the lines of the following.

 

- Faction or Clan Sovereignty

 

That is, develop large, open worlds where factions/clans gain control over settlements which provide said faction/clan with benefits. The benefits being such that the opposite faction as a whole or clans from said faction will be tempted to wrestle control from the occupiers. The advantages to the game are clear.

 

- Direct faction/clan competition.

- Alliances between clans to retain control. (Relevant alliances are hardly ever seen in PvE focused games, sadly)

- Better guild interface to facilitate those alliances.

 

With such a system, Gear no longer is the driving force behind PvP, Faction/Clan warfare becomes the driving force. Gear would just be a prerequisite to efficient contribution. A POSITIVE THING if you ask me.

 

Let us not also forget that there are also certain game mechanics/design policies that hinder anything like this happening.

 

- Linear world design.

 

Chokepoints by the dozen don't make for good Open PvP. Give us open worlds like Tatooine that encourage more than Thermopylae skirmishing in gorges.

 

- Hideous, HIDEOUS INSTANCING!!!

 

Yeah, I don;t like it. Even the cap of 250-300 or whatever it is at is itself a hinderence to anything like what I described above. There are already large clans of multiple hundreds of people and they want to kill eachother in large wars, many of which are simply extentions of old conflicts from other games. This is GOOD for PvP and deserves to be fostered, not stunted by sharding/instancing or whatever you want to call it.

 

 

This is something I would like to see. Bioware can continue their gear grind design but the moment clans can invest assets into a PvP environment, that's the moment real competition begins and not only for the benefit of the clans. All can benefit from such activity, even soloers or small gang roamers. Large scale clan roams won't be the norm of course. It would make for a healthy community and I commend this proposal to the forum goers and Bioware!

 

So many many many many awesome points. Let us create the community. Don't give us a grindfest and expect people to stick around together and have fun

[Dustfinder]

OP they will be adding more PVP content down the line. They have a whole dev team dedicated to PVP. Give it some more time the game just came out I am sure they have more tricks up thier sleeves.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/what%E2%80%99s-next-old-republic

 

In a nutshell here it is for the lazy people who don't wanna check the link heh

 

•PvP – We have an entire team dedicated to adding content and features to player vs. player. We have some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world on this team. So far very few people have seen, or know much about the stunning Open World PVP on Ilum; when you get to the high levels prepare to be blown away! In addition to that high level PVP content, expect new Warzones and new PvP features on a regular basis.

[Kebabz]

OP they will be adding more PVP content down the line. They have a whole dev team dedicated to PVP. Give it some more time the game just came out I am sure they have more tricks up thier sleeves.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/what%E2%80%99s-next-old-republic

 

In a nutshell here it is for the lazy people who don't wanna check the link heh

 

•PvP – We have an entire team dedicated to adding content and features to player vs. player. We have some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world on this team. So far very few people have seen, or know much about the stunning Open World PVP on Ilum; when you get to the high levels prepare to be blown away! In addition to that high level PVP content, expect new Warzones and new PvP features on a regular basis.

 

Indeed, they might have now.

 

But from unofficial sources for a matter of weeks ago, they had no plans regarding pvp at all. And tbh if they think it would fix things to add more warzones... the team is doing a pretty horrible job.

 

Ilum is a shiny area agreed... but it is best used for kill-trading and nothing else -.-

Edited December 14, 2011 by Kebabz

[Scelerant]

I'm not sure if the OP is talking about the rewards being too hard to get or that the combination of getting random gear pieces (from what I heard you can get the item for a slot 52 weeks in a row) and the ability to get the pieces being tied to daily/weekly quests.

 

I think most people can agree that there is little in gaming that aggravates people as much as watching some noob walking around decked out after 1 week, while people who have been playing for months are still missing pieces all due to RNG.

[lolelijah]

The most difficult... nothing have been difficult in a game since halo 2 lengendary mode imo.

You havnt played demon souls or dark souls have you...

[-Vexus-]

Honeslty?i dont agree with your point.

Im working 8 hours per day, im married and i like to go out and drink with friend sometime. i am also a HUGE gamer, i love playing mmorpg and im doing it since i was 15(im 25 now)and i dont see why i shoul get killed by someone who have more free time than me.

you talking about skill but it only seems that you are intrested in gearing faster than casual gamer in order to pew pew.

and abut the efford stuff, i dont see any efford in someone who play 18 hours out of 24 per day.

try to work, pay your bill, make a woman happy and find the time to play, thats an efford mate or at least the one that should be rewarded.

 

I agree completely. Timesink should NOT equal reward in PvP ... leave that grinding nausea for the PvE crowd. SKILL should equal victory, not grinding the timesink.

 

The OP does have some other good points though, such as the ridiculous rewarding of AFK'ers and leechers getting the same reward as those who actively participate in the PvP play. People should be incentivized to fully participate. It is very demoralizing being on a team and watching AFK'ers/Leeches letting your side down simply to get free xp or rewards.

 

Keep winning in PvP about skill rather than gear/grinding/timesink. Incentivize participation in PvP rather than AFK'ing/Leeching by attaining other perks that make life more enjoyable but do not disrupt the balance of PvP victory ... ease of travel, currency, badges, titles, etc.

[Deviltreh]

It's the first day....Rome wasn't built in a day. Everything takes time.

Unacceptable when there are MMORPGs with superb PvP content. You wanna compete - launch with it too...

[Aneu]

Unacceptable when there are MMORPGs with superb PvP content. You wanna compete - launch with it too...

 

P.much

[Murah]

Skill, not gear, should determine the outcome of battles. I'm strongly against gear as a reward for pvp.

[RycheMykola]

Exactly, Pvp should be skill based not gear based. This garbage about getting high lvl pvp gear faster only because you play ALOT more ruins endgame pvp. This was one of the reasons T4 pvp in Warhammer sucked, the new 40's had no chance against us. Some of the best fights in any pvp is when there is a risk of death, there is very little risk of death when you have your enemy outgeared unless you ...... or don't try. Anyway i'm sure BW will go the way the OP wants eventually because thats how every other MMO's has gone. The very vocal minority will push BW for the changes they want and the casual to semi hardcore will get ... Either way i will be here.

So true! I remember us having a group of 40/80's and wrecking everyone.

 

I'd love to see something like how the T4 RVR lakes were in this game, instead of castles though, forts/space docks etc.........

[Jebi]

Another game ruined by these crappy little instanced mini games catering to the PVE gamers, casuals, and instant gratification crowd.

 

What a surprise!

 

*sigh*

[Athoc]

this isn't a hardcore vs casual post or a debate.

 

It's simply the case of another carebear wanting an easy button (that is you op). The whole nature of pvp is to pwn faces. If you're pvp'ing for the gear - you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

 

^^qfe

[Smashbrother]

Honestly, I would not care if ALL sets of PvP gear, from now onto infinity, were equal in stats. I just want the next gearset to look progressive cooler. That's pretty much it. I want to look like a mutha****ing ******, and my skills will win me the day. I'm fine if everyone has same stats, but if i put in more effort into PvP than some other dude, I want to LOOK COOLER.

[Iamnytehawk]

Yet still allowing the Casual Gamer majority of players to remain reasonably competitive against the minority full-time gamers; otherwise, the Casual Gamer majority will get frustrated and cancel. A discontent majority is far worse than a discontent minority.

 

Well said.

[Cameirus]

Skill, not gear, should determine the outcome of battles. I'm strongly against gear as a reward for pvp.

 

yes.

 

I've always found it strange how self proclaimed pro pvpers want a gear advantage to help them in pvp....

 

Personally I want an equal footing to show that I do in fact pwn my oponents and they damm well know it

[aspectsofwar]

Your complaints are ridiculous.

 

Clearly you are a "hardcore" (time investment) player and want to be rewarded with gear for not having a life. Want to know why I quit WoW? Because I was sick and tired of the grind.

 

Every season I would compete for gladiator title and every season I would have to do the agonizing gear farming grind, sacrificing time with friends, work, family etc. All this just to be competitive.

 

I love how in this current build i do not have to put in the time to remain competitive. I want everyone to have the same chances as me. Ive met so many skilled players in WoW who didn't have the time to farm and couldn't compete with myself and peers.

 

You are also expressing grievances about a brand new PvP system before the game even launches. Most MMOs have no PvP system at launch. You are spoiled to have what we have. Bioware will most certainly work out the kinks in upcoming months.

 

Stop complaining.

Edited December 14, 2011 by aspectsofwar

[Cookie_monsta]

Funny post, the fact you missed that the open world pvp planets have resources you will need for crafting is even funnier. You see this in turn means people will be fighting it out to gain a foothold for resources and farming. The best pvp is when Farmers and Fighters end up helping each other out.