Gaidax Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I purge Sorc debuffs with a chain of 5k crits in their face... Really, Sorcs are by far the squishiest AC there is, all you need to do is just root them at the right moment and they are going off to a respawn. Or just pretend to be some sort of sissy and then wtfburst them in 3 seconds from 50 to 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincedaddy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Where do people get these random ideas that "OH sorcs have 5 different cc's, and 12 different ways to escape!!".. That makes no sense they have a stun and a cyclone, and counting knockbacks/roots makes no sense since almost every class has one of each (sent/maura would be the exception).Just stop letting them win the positioning battle and play smart ( granted that's asking a lot for some). I eat sorcs for breakfast on my sentinel, and own sentinels on my sorc... In almost every one of these " Hey NERF X now because I can't beat them with Y" posts it's purely L2p. You don't really want to learn how to beat the class since you aren't willing to listen to how you are suppose to do it, but instead ask the game itself to beat the class with nerfs so you can use the same bad play style to instead get a kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincedaddy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Btw great post OP ill be sure to read your guide, and you are definitely right about durps not purging madness dots. Could you link your hybrid spec? Tried every spec so far with the exception of the hybrid madness/lightning build. Edited February 5, 2012 by Vincedaddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Where do people get these random ideas that "OH sorcs have 5 different cc's, and 12 different ways to escape!!".. That makes no sense they have a stun and a cyclone, and counting knockbacks/roots makes no sense since almost every class has one of each (sent/maura would be the exception).Just stop letting them win the positioning battle and play smart ( granted that's asking a lot for some). I eat sorcs for breakfast on my sentinel, and own sentinels on my sorc... In almost every one of these " Hey NERF X now because I can't beat them with Y" posts it's purely L2p. You don't really want to learn how to beat the class since you aren't willing to listen to how you are suppose to do it, but instead ask the game itself to beat the class with nerfs so you can use the same bad play style to instead get a kill. A sorceror upthread listed 6 different CCs you have. It makes a lot of sense to count roots and knockbacks, considering I have neither. And then there's sprint, which isn't a CC but is very useful. Stop pretending that sorcs have no more than every other class. Btw great post OP ill be sure to read your guide, and you are definitely right about durps not purging madness dots. Could you link your hybrid spec? Tried every spec so far with the exception of the hybrid madness/lightning build. The only "durps" are the sorcerors who think everyone else can remove force effects. They can't. Full medic operative, and I never get talents to allow me to--I don't know about mercs' healing talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karqath Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I really don't understand why sorc/sages are cryin at the moment that they don't need a nerf cause this class "squishy like this or that.Simple question to all the sorc/sage players. - WHY %60-70 of imp players are playin sorc OR %60-70 of republic players are playing Sage? Give a honest answer. Then you will understand why this class need a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KodiakAsh Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I really don't understand why sorc/sages are cryin at the moment that they don't need a nerf cause this class "squishy like this or that.Simple question to all the sorc/sage players. - WHY %60-70 of imp players are playin sorc OR %60-70 of republic players are playing Sage? Give a honest answer. Then you will understand why this class need a nerf. My favorite part is people keep suggesting to just Purge their DOTs as if any other class other than a Sorc could remove the DOTs. Both Mercs and Operatives are Tech/Phys and Mental if heal spec'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I honestly don't mind sorcs that much when I'm playing against them. What makes me angry is sorcs on the forums pretending that their class is normal and no different from the other classes. I'll mostly compare sorcs and operatives since that is the class I know best (healer). "Who cares about our knockback, almost everyone has one." -- No, just over half (5/8) do. Fewer than half have an aoe knockback (3/8, assassin, merc, sorc). "We don't have that much CC." -- More than anyone else. It gets worse when you start looking at details: operatives have an aoe mez, on a one-minute CD. Sorc knockback has half the CD, doesn't generate nearly as much resolve, is easier to use, and has all the advantages of being a knockback. Operatives have a 4s stun with 10y range; sorc stun is 30y range. Sorc CC (whirlwind) has max range and is useable in combat. Operative CC (sleep dart) has 10y range and requires stealth and the target to be out of combat and generates a full resolve bar. If we start comparing healing throughput (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=258943), sorcs are ahead. Aoe heals? Sorcs' aoe hits infinite targets, other healers are capped at 3 and 4. Unique abilities: sorcs have talented pull ally and sprint. Operatives have... group stealth? Resources: sorcs don't have to manage theirs, their abilities are cheaper, and force regens faster than energy (8 force vs 6 energy per second, but only at 60% energy or better). I could go on ad nauseum, but I won't. I enjoy my operative healer. I don't plan to reroll and I really don't care that much that sorcs got pretty much everything given to them. What does tick me off is sorcs coming on here and pretending their class isn't special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iridor Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Came in expecting commentary on how to beat sorcs. Found a thinly disguised excuse for sorcs to keep on being top of the power scale. 'K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcskeet Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 I really don't understand why sorc/sages are cryin at the moment that they don't need a nerf cause this class "squishy like this or that.Simple question to all the sorc/sage players. - WHY %60-70 of imp players are playin sorc OR %60-70 of republic players are playing Sage? Give a honest answer. Then you will understand why this class need a nerf. Ok, here's an honest answer. Nerf the graphics of the class, and you have 50% less people playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcskeet Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 I honestly don't mind sorcs that much when I'm playing against them. What makes me angry is sorcs on the forums pretending that their class is normal and no different from the other classes. I'll mostly compare sorcs and operatives since that is the class I know best (healer). "Who cares about our knockback, almost everyone has one." -- No, just over half (5/8) do. Fewer than half have an aoe knockback (3/8, assassin, merc, sorc). "We don't have that much CC." -- More than anyone else. It gets worse when you start looking at details: operatives have an aoe mez, on a one-minute CD. Sorc knockback has half the CD, doesn't generate nearly as much resolve, is easier to use, and has all the advantages of being a knockback. Operatives have a 4s stun with 10y range; sorc stun is 30y range. Sorc CC (whirlwind) has max range and is useable in combat. Operative CC (sleep dart) has 10y range and requires stealth and the target to be out of combat and generates a full resolve bar. If we start comparing healing throughput (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=258943), sorcs are ahead. Aoe heals? Sorcs' aoe hits infinite targets, other healers are capped at 3 and 4. Unique abilities: sorcs have talented pull ally and sprint. Operatives have... group stealth? Resources: sorcs don't have to manage theirs, their abilities are cheaper, and force regens faster than energy (8 force vs 6 energy per second, but only at 60% energy or better). I could go on ad nauseum, but I won't. I enjoy my operative healer. I don't plan to reroll and I really don't care that much that sorcs got pretty much everything given to them. What does tick me off is sorcs coming on here and pretending their class isn't special. Wow, your logic is flawed. How does 6/100 energy per second even compare to 8/600 force per second? Dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcskeet Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Came in expecting commentary on how to beat sorcs. Found a thinly disguised excuse for sorcs to keep on being top of the power scale. 'K. If you didn't learn anything at all in my OP that helps you beat sorcs, then you are just bad. Every class should faceroll a sorc 1v1, if its you vs. 2 sorcs, don't cry nerf, thats not a class imbalance, thats a player imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Must be hard playing a Sorcerer that doesn't have a CC breaker. Its the mammal flight or fight response, nobody complains about the Tele spec Sage yet that is the Light Sorc mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binafus Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 As a Scoundrel since the patch I have found a way to beat them all the time. Wait till they are AFK and burst them down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalexkhan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) If I played wow today, and posted on the forums saying I've only been playing for 2 months, I'd be lauhed at and probably called a newb. What I'm saying is, no one in this game yet is a master of anything yet, and we are all essentially "baddies" and still learning the ins and outs of our respective classes, as well as all the others. While I would agree, that their is indeed a differential for which people are finding their stride faster than others.... But the fact is, asserting that the key to bringing a particularly popular class "in line" with all the others is more knowledge, tends to be a bit of a fallacy in my mind. Maybe I'm wrong but, sorcs are only going to get better in kind as they learn everyone else's class at the same time too. This will only undermine your points on a meta level as time and experience is something that scales universally for a player base. No one has hit the skill ceilingon a 2 month old game yet. Period. Edited February 5, 2012 by kalexkhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainDil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I didn't have to read this to know that this is a plea to not nerf your class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Wow, your logic is flawed. How does 6/100 energy per second even compare to 8/600 force per second? Dude... 1. I notice you ignored everything else I said. 2. I didn't realize they decided to give you six times the resource pool--my assassin only has 100 force. Must be rough. What's your most expensive ability? 60, 80, maybe 100 force? I understand 10-15% of total is typical for sorcs. 20-30% is typical for operatives. Looks like you're still ahead, especially considering you aren't penalized for casting more than two abilities in a row. 3. I'm sorry I don't know all the facts about sorcs. The fact that you cherry-picked one point, though, tells me you don't have a response to the rest. Besides, my error was of ignorance. You've deliberately made sorcs appear worse by comparing (for example) a completely untalented bubble to a hot that requires a 20+ point investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortof Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No problem with the amount of damage they put out. Only problems I see with the Sorc's are the mobility grants they give to others IE the grapple, which when chain grappled threw multiple Sorc's can and does cause imbalance in Hutball. And perhaps Sprint on a longer CD. Something I don't understand though is the ability to completely ignore knockbacks. I see this every time I try it and either the class or the Sorc gets a Sorc bubble. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviorofcamelot Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Must be hard playing a Sorcerer that doesn't have a CC breaker. Sage/Sorc have 1 way to break CC and it has a long cooldown. It's the people that nail me with interrupts that kill me quickly. The OP is 100% with the Int's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Sorcs are overpowered (Or operatives/snipers are underpowered, but nobody wants to agree to that) because I can kill people with them. Fact. If I'm dying three times as less and getting way more medals for damage (The role), then any idiot with half a brain can tell it's better, and therefore overpowered. I haven't tried out all the classes, but if I do just as well, then the Agent is just underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviorofcamelot Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No problem with the amount of damage they put out. Only problems I see with the Sorc's are the mobility grants they give to others IE the grapple, which when chain grappled threw multiple Sorc's can and does cause imbalance in Hutball. And perhaps Sprint on a longer CD. Something I don't understand though is the ability to completely ignore knockbacks. I see this every time I try it and either the class or the Sorc gets a Sorc bubble. /shrug Force Speed last 2 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown. Want it to be a 4 hour cooldown? Maybe a 6 hour cooldown on the bubble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortof Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Force Speed last 2 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown. Want it to be a 4 hour cooldown? Maybe a 6 hour cooldown on the bubble? I love it when people do this. Talk about a small adjustment to a CD or an ability and they get all drama-queen about it while ignoring it's current defect. Thanks for the constructive post man. I was thinking more along the lines of a 1-2 minute CD, that way you had to think about when to press it, not "The ball reset and so did my CD, time to score again" (With multiple Sorc's mind you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggDirty Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It amazes me that in a game where EVERYTHING can be accurately measured with numerical values, people still claim that sorcs have "amazing dps", or they can "kill you in 5 seconds". Sorcs have the lowest single target DPS of all damage dealers by a large margin. If it takes me 40 seconds to do 20k damage, and it takes you 8 seconds, how exactly am I supposed to compete with you if I don't have many ways of escaping or mitigating your damage? I would gladly trade all of my supposed overpowered CC's and knockbacks, for the ability to gib someone in 3 GCD's like all of the other classes can do. But of course that would turn us into glass cannon mages like in WoW, and then people would cry that we can 2 shot them. People will not be happy until they can simply force leap towards us and kill us in 8 seconds without us being able to do anything. Then they will find something else to cry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If I played wow today, and posted on the forums saying I've only been playing for 2 months, I'd be lauhed at and probably called a newb. What I'm saying is, no one in this game yet is a master of anything yet, and we are all essentially "baddies" and still learning the ins and outs of our respective classes, as well as all the others. While I would agree, that their is indeed a differential for which people are finding their stride faster than others.... But the fact is, asserting that the key to bringing a particularly popular class "in line" with all the others is more knowledge, tends to be a bit of a fallacy in my mind. Maybe I'm wrong but, sorcs are only going to get better in kind as they learn everyone else's class at the same time too. This will only undermine your points on a meta level as time and experience is something that scales universally for a player base. No one has hit the skill ceilingon a 2 month old game yet. Period. 2 months into WoW people knew Rogues were overpowered. And...they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) It amazes me that in a game where EVERYTHING can be accurately measured with numerical values, people still claim that sorcs have "amazing dps", or they can "kill you in 5 seconds". Oh sure, I'll just do some number crunching from my combat log next time I'm in a- Oh, that's right. Bioware sucks at developing MMOs. I would gladly trade all of my supposed overpowered CC's and knockbacks, for the ability to gib someone in 3 GCD's like all of the other classes can do. Actually, only one class could do that - and you got them nerfed. Edited February 6, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Did you know my cleanse as a heal ops, even with it talented to remove mental effects only cleans a small percentage of DoTs and most certainly almost NONE from a sorc? Basically I can cleanse stuff other Ops drop on me and that's about it. GG? You know how u beat a sorc? You reroll one, everyone else did! Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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