Superastro Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I really enjoy pvp, and Judging by the videos I've seen and personal experience (lvl 14 sentinel), it seems that the Sentinel class has too much CDS to babysit to put up some real good damage. Hey, there is too much stuff going on the battle field, you can't just tunnel vision your bars and put up max dmg. (I know). Sometimes you have to peel for you healer, cut casts, positioning, well basic pvp moves you all know right? As much as I know there is learning curve to play the class on its max potential, the punitive aspect of having to keep your eyes on your bars just to know what cd is up is not that fun. Imo (<----). Having that many CDs bloating our bars makes us loose sight of some import ant aspects in any combat PVE or PVP. I wish Bioware consider changing the class a bit, so the Sentinel could be a bit more "fluid". Please take note that this is not a request to dumb-down the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltonz Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 After a few days /played @ 50, it becomes second nature. I've landed on a key bind scheme and UI set up I'm happy with, so now I only need to occasional glance to check CDs. The timers are almost becoming internal. But yes, it certainly is difficult at first. But it keeps things interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superastro Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) After a few days /played @ 50, it becomes second nature. I've landed on a key bind scheme and UI set up I'm happy with, so now I only need to occasional glance to check CDs. The timers are almost becoming internal. But yes, it certainly is difficult at first. But it keeps things interesting! So you are telling me you just don't eye ball your CDS? How do you keep track of you procs? Do you just guess? In a pve enviroment it would be chalening but not impossible to "mentaly" keep track of some of you important CDS. But in a PVP where you can't respect a rotation, because your cooldowns are mostly messed up. Its just impossible. Sorry about the honest answer I am giving you but I just think you do not play the class as its max potential. Just like a lot of PRO videos Ive seen when the sentinel used wrong finishers, spamming ON CD habilites, etc. Edited February 3, 2012 by Superastro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) They do have a lot to manage. Get in the habit of placing your high cooldowns in a certain part of your bar and your low cooldowns in another portion of your bar. When you glance down for a split second you want to see everything you need to see. You should never have to look for more than 0.5-1.0 seconds to see all your important skills. Bioware's horrendous UI and lack of numbered cooldown indicators make it more difficult than it has to be but it's doable. I personally think Bioware went "OH HEY GUYS LETS MAKE THE COOLDOWN INDICATORS PRETTY! **** USABILITY WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT THAT?!?!?!". P.S. - The other poster is semi-correct. You should try to make a mental note of when you used the last Annihilate, Battering Assault, Deadly Saber, Etc. and just try to get the hang of using mental cooldowns for your most important cooldowns. It's not going to be precise because during PvP you're also watching the opponent's casts and movements but it'll help you know when to look down at your bars to confirm something is X seconds from being off CD. Edited February 3, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimloy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 i agree with kelt, you kinda get use to it I will say with combat spec, you have 1-4 things on your bar to keep track of. But for watchmen wooh...now that is a little overwhelming, even with my Naga and Nostromos my finger get crisscross and i get confuse..I praise all sents that are watchmen that use their keyboards:eek:, you guys are GODS lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankins Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 So you are telling me you just don't eye ball your CDS? How do you keep track of you procs? Do you just guess? In a pve enviroment it would be chalening but not impossible to "mentaly" keep track of some of you important CDS. But in a PVP where you can't respect a rotation, because your cooldowns are mostly messed up. Its just impossible. Sorry about the honest answer I am giving you but I just think you do not play the class as its max potential. Just like a lot of PRO videos Ive seen when the sentinel used wrong finishers, spamming ON CD habilites, etc. Lol, I was actually thinking the same thing the other day. I don't even look at the actual fight anymore. The majority of the time I'm just staring at my bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimloy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Lol, I was actually thinking the same thing the other day. I don't even look at the actual fight anymore. The majority of the time I'm just staring at my bars. haha right, i find it truly annoying though when the opponent is running circles around you and some of my abilities dont go off. How do you compensate for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaaat Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You do get use to it somewhat. During PvE I spent most of my time looking at my bars/buffs because I want to try and execute my priority system as perfectly as possible but I do check at my screen when GCD goes off (gives my 1.5s to look around, plenty of time!). In PvP I don't spend as much time looking at my bars, which does have negative consequences (e.g. spamming an ability, which is not working only to realise that you don't have enough focus or it's on cooldown) Anyway I don't believe the problem is that we have too many abilities, the problem is the UI there's only one place where we can see the information we need (what's on CD, how much focus do we have, what buffs do I have etc.) that information isn't presented on the part of the screen where all the action is but on the bottom. Hence why we're looking more on our bars. A simple fix would be changing the text generator, besides showing your damage and how much you receive in healing or how much you heal, it should also tell you what buffs you get, when an ability goes off CD etc. I think this would help a lot. i agree with kelt, you kinda get use to it I will say with combat spec, you have 1-4 things on your bar to keep track of. But for watchmen wooh...now that is a little overwhelming, even with my Naga and Nostromos my finger get crisscross and i get confuse..I praise all sents that are watchmen that use their keyboards:eek:, you guys are GODS lolWatchman has only one more ability to keep track off and on top of that Watchman proc (Mind Sear) has a distinct sound effect which is impossible to miss (on my female character she shouts 'hey!' and sometimes it's some grunting noise) If your fingers get criss crossed then you did something wrong which is you put your abilities on the wrong place. I've recently specced from Combat to Watchman and I replaced the following Combat ability with the following Watchman ability. Blade Rush -> Overload Saber Precision Slash -> Cauterize blade storm -> merciless slash Master Strike -> Slash After that Watchman became easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I'm slowly changing my company line when it comes to this. As some folks say, the cooldowns eventually become second nature. It just takes practice and practice and practice. For the first month, I thought Sentinels were the most underpowered pieces of trash. Now, I'm starting to see what folks were saying when you add L2P + Gear to the mix. Best advice I can give: take it slow and in pieces. Invest a few days into sucking without shame. Forget your defensive cooldowns. Forget your relics/consumables. Focus on getting down your priorities in PvP. This breaks down the Sentinel into managable chunks. If Watchman, make it your goal to always Overload Saber on cooldown. Cauterize on every cooldown. After Merciless Slash, give Cauterize a second push for love, in case Mind Sear procced (66% chance), but don't wait to see it. Already be pushing another attack in case it didn't. Make it your goal to never Charge an enemy until you know he's used his knockback. Practice regular striking every now and then to insure a steady stream of focus. Don't forget to Slash when focused capped. Get these down, and don't worry if you can't 1v1 a braindead, tracer spamming Mercenary. Attack someone who is being attacked by a teammate, and your at 90% effectiveness anyway. Once you feel you're able to sustain this priority system, then start thinking about Interrupts, Defensive Cooldowns and utility like Stasis/Pacify. If you try to worry about everything all at once, you can easily get overwhelmed and frustrated. Edited February 3, 2012 by McVade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accoro Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 So you are telling me you just don't eye ball your CDS? How do you keep track of you procs? Do you just guess? In a pve enviroment it would be chalening but not impossible to "mentaly" keep track of some of you important CDS. But in a PVP where you can't respect a rotation, because your cooldowns are mostly messed up. Its just impossible. Sorry about the honest answer I am giving you but I just think you do not play the class as its max potential. Just like a lot of PRO videos Ive seen when the sentinel used wrong finishers, spamming ON CD habilites, etc. This strikes me as a case of l2p :s I know when my cooldowns are up, or roughly when they are due to be up. It's basic micromagement, and if you aspire to serious endgame PvE, it's probably something you should try practising just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telgath Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks guys, there are some really good tips here. But it would be nice if the cool down indicators were more positive than some sliding blue line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks guys, there are some really good tips here. But it would be nice if the cool down indicators were more positive than some sliding blue line. They've changed this again on the PTR. Don't know how though, I haven't patched it. And McVade, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telgath Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I normally do not stare at the bars. I am sweeping my eyes over the entire scene. Like most of us do. The original method where the ability was on or off was easy for spotting a change. Now I am not sure if the cool down is ready unless I stop my scan and focus. This just slows me down. I look upon it as a form of nerf. I hear folks mentioning using time sense. Well, when things get hot and heavy I get amped up and my time sense goes to hell in a hand basket. Then the 1.5 second cool down seems like an eternity. So, I do wish they would put the hot keys back to the way they started: On or off....none of this in between stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superastro Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thank you for the positive feedback in this post. The goal is to help Bioware to make the class even more fun and atractive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeetesSixFive Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I only glance at my bars sometimes and that's just in pvp cause I'm not used to my healing debuff and such. But for PvE I've never looked at my bars I watch my DoTs on the boss for when to put Cauterize back up and thats about it. I just make mental notes of my cds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeptastic Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Things will be better when they revert the UI cooldown change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyxa Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The fact that you have to use 1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and CTRL1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and SHIFT1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v to actually play the class to an extent where you get somewhat competetive against classes that practically need 1,2,3,4,q,e and can click on the rest (Sniper, mercenary anyone?) is still standing... I've played a lot of MMOs and loved PvP MMOs. I often picked low-profile or difficult classes like the shadow warrior in WAR or the Blood Mage in Vanguard... But I've never used so many keys for such a small amount of edge. Don't get me wrong, I still like the look and feel, especially PvE is demanding but fun. But PvP is just too much effort for not getting any real rewards for mastery... Your burst is still far lower than most other classes, especially Sorcs... Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 haha right, i find it truly annoying though when the opponent is running circles around you and some of my abilities dont go off. How do you compensate for that? Turn as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superastro Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 The fact that you have to use 1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and CTRL1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and SHIFT1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v to actually play the class to an extent where you get somewhat competetive against classes that practically need 1,2,3,4,q,e and can click on the rest (Sniper, mercenary anyone?) is still standing... I've played a lot of MMOs and loved PvP MMOs. I often picked low-profile or difficult classes like the shadow warrior in WAR or the Blood Mage in Vanguard... But I've never used so many keys for such a small amount of edge. Don't get me wrong, I still like the look and feel, especially PvE is demanding but fun. But PvP is just too much effort for not getting any real rewards for mastery... Your burst is still far lower than most other classes, especially Sorcs... Val 10/10 ^this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrianlol Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The fact that you have to use 1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and CTRL1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and SHIFT1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v to actually play the class to an extent where you get somewhat competetive against classes that practically need 1,2,3,4,q,e and can click on the rest (Sniper, mercenary anyone?) is still standing... I've played a lot of MMOs and loved PvP MMOs. I often picked low-profile or difficult classes like the shadow warrior in WAR or the Blood Mage in Vanguard... But I've never used so many keys for such a small amount of edge. Don't get me wrong, I still like the look and feel, especially PvE is demanding but fun. But PvP is just too much effort for not getting any real rewards for mastery... Your burst is still far lower than most other classes, especially Sorcs... Val The force is strong with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrykk Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The fact that you have to use 1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and CTRL1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v and SHIFT1,2,3,4,5,q,e,f,g,c,v to actually play the class to an extent where you get somewhat competetive against classes that practically need 1,2,3,4,q,e and can click on the rest (Sniper, mercenary anyone?) is still standing... I've played a lot of MMOs and loved PvP MMOs. I often picked low-profile or difficult classes like the shadow warrior in WAR or the Blood Mage in Vanguard... But I've never used so many keys for such a small amount of edge. Don't get me wrong, I still like the look and feel, especially PvE is demanding but fun. But PvP is just too much effort for not getting any real rewards for mastery... Your burst is still far lower than most other classes, especially Sorcs... Val Leap > Rebuke (Or Rebuke > leap) Zealous Strike> bladerush > Precision Slash > Blade Storm > Master Strike/Star Wars Kid strike > Cauterize/Slam Dunk > Strike> Leg strike... Throw in an opportune attack in there somewhere, Rinse and repeat Bladestorm, Zealous Strike, Precision Slash and Bladerush.... Zen... throw in an Awe somewhere... ummm... a few more keys... What do you mean this is too complex? * 1 - 5 S+1 - 5 Ctr+ 1 - 5 Numpad 0 - 9 * = on the assumption you're not CC'd to hell and back and didn't have time to go get a beverage while waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FobManX Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 It is a lot, but eventually you just get into a rhythm and get used to it. I'll still occasionally tunnel vision and stare at my bars but for the most part now I have it down and can execute the playstyle pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) With experience I pretty much know when a skill is soon going to be available... besides it takes me less than a second checking my bottom bars. I wouldn't mind the UI showing how many seconds remain until usability though. Edited February 4, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyxa Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Leap > Rebuke (Or Rebuke > leap) Zealous Strike> bladerush > Precision Slash > Blade Storm > Master Strike/Star Wars Kid strike > Cauterize/Slam Dunk > Strike> Leg strike... Throw in an opportune attack in there somewhere, Rinse and repeat Bladestorm, Zealous Strike, Precision Slash and Bladerush.... Zen... throw in an Awe somewhere... ummm... a few more keys... What do you mean this is too complex? * 1 - 5 S+1 - 5 Ctr+ 1 - 5 Numpad 0 - 9 * = on the assumption you're not CC'd to hell and back and didn't have time to go get a beverage while waiting. Most of the time you ARE CC'd to hell, you NEED the heal debuff from saber throw, you WANT that ranged guy to get the precision debuff, the assassin right there needs to be slowed and there's a guy stunned right in front of you who could earn a pommel strike before the stun breaks... You know, that's what I mean, reducing all the "if->then" skills wouldn't overpower the class, wouldn't (at least for me) take the fun out of it, you'd just have to worry less about your bars and more about the action... Val EDIT: What you'd think they'd give a melee DPS though is a detaunt and at least SOME CC-abilities and more than one speed proc. Edited February 4, 2012 by Valyxa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superastro Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Still, too much effort to very little reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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