Deception spec Assassins need a damage buff

[AugustusD]

ok, so the only thing that keeps this light armor class alive "Dark charge" is getting a nerf. Before anyone jumps on that let me explain. This is basically a lifetap that can not happen more than once every "x" number of seconds. (not logged in now to check but believe me it's balanced). This is getting removed from deception because BW doesn't like hybrid specs. Well fine... I can accept that you want us to go to 31 in a tree and that you don't want pure dps having access to tank skills. I can even agree with this because that was never my vision when using the class either. However, you guys need to make the assassin dps spec do...well...actual dps. Deception has the lowest dps of any dps spec in the game + light armor and the need to be in melee range. Dps needs a boost if we are expected to have zero survivability in close quarters. I've played rogues in many MMOs and all had light armor, stealth and some sort of vanish. Thing is that in pure dps spec they could all dish enough damage for the fact they are paper. Deception assassins only do enough damage if they are allowed to build up charges. You'd need to be a very bad player or afk to allow an Assassin to do this. Who doesn't know that after the second pretty VS attack the big attack is coming and put up a shield or other invulnerability?

 

Before you mention maul be aware of it's severe restrictions. If weakness has not proc-ed it's 50 force per maul and it must be used from behind. Latency makes maul fail almost as much as it succeeds and the damage isn't even all that great. With no restriction Mercs can do just as much damage with one insta cast of tracer round.

 

Anyway, without making this a novel I ask that before you reply and flame me you lookt the spec i'mtalking about.

 

Why am I posting here and not in the Assassin forum?? Because this is a major PvP issue. I not want to be pigeon-holed into tank spec. I doubt most people were thinking "tank" when they chose an Assassin.

Edited February 3, 2012 by AugustusD

[Fairell]

if they do that, we will become prepatch operatives

[AugustusD]

No even close. We don't have that long knockdown. No way we can kill someone before they can react.

[Husanak]

if they do that, we will become prepatch operatives

 

They need to do something too make it worth while...

 

The operative and the assassin should do equal DPS... the difference is supposed to be the timing of their burst... OPS are front load, Assassins are back load.

 

Its obvious the better option for pvp is Front load... the trade off that made it an interesting play style (And even possible frankly) was being able to play as a Light Armour tank. Sure you lacked the front load... but if you could manage your defensive cool downs and stay alive long enough you could work someone down and then finish them with your back loaded burst skills. No one used the 100% dps tree because honesty it is very much back loaded dmg with almost no way of getting it off vs competent players.

 

What honesty needs too happen too the DPS tree is the dmg has too be moved up the cycle. I am fine with full dmg being a bit squishy... but you have to be able to get the Dmg skills off before your dead. That won't happen often as it is. I don't know the exact fix... perhaps discharge needs to build faster... or perhaps adding a high in the tree DPS skill that would allow Assassinate too be used on any target. (it is a 30% health or below now) Something with say a 1 min cool down... so at least once per min we could front load a small part of our burst.

[MandalorianOsevn]

deception player here i put out 300k-400k a game, learn how to play were fine

[Mirricious]

I play infiltration shadow and in my opinion the dmg is really fine, u say that enemy has to be very poor to let us hit twice with isntant attack that puts on all the procs ur referring to ?? You must be really bad not being able to stick to target with the utility u have - 2 sec stun - 4 sec incapacitate and 4 sec stun ??... now that our opening stun gives us 1 stack and u hit with clairvoiant / voltaic for the 2nd and then pull the 10 range 2spell + uheaval/chainshock combo. Where is the problem man ?? I don't know how geared u are but i'm champ/bm geared and i hit my gear equivalents for 10-12k ( popping power relic and pot ) with this combo thats subsequent and uninterruptible, and i can pretty much spamm it every few sec...

 

This spec allows You to make killer switches all day long. Basicly premade with a tank a good aoe spreader and a healer and there is little chance something can stop You.

 

Remember that shadows in dps stance can spam aoe and single target taunts that help Your team severely ...

 

Imo the class is in gr8 shape even after the nerf. Leave it BE !!

[Sookster]

Assassin/shadows IMO are the most balanced class in this game.

[AugustusD]

deception player here i put out 300k-400k a game, learn how to play were fine

 

Love quotes like this. You in full BM gear vs lesser geared people is not a good indicator of what the class can do. Let's see you get half as many medals without "dark charge". Why don't u backup what you are saying instead of just making a blanket statement. Ie. prove your doing that against equally geared players... You're not.

 

BTW: *IF you are not *Deception spec-ed this does not apply to you.

Edited February 3, 2012 by AugustusD

[Lina_Inverse]

Damage is fine. For maps like huttball the class needs some love. If the charge swapping change goes live the spec could use a bit of love group-utility and defense wise. Otherwise the class plays well with decent support.

 

 

Said in another way, buffing the damage will make this spec too strong. Definately the wrong kind of change and it's not a change that would improve deception at all.

[Sookster]

Love quotes like this. You in full BM gear vs lesser geared people is not a good indicator of what the class can do. Let's see you get half as many medals without "dark charge". Why don't u backup what you are saying instead of just making a blanket statement. Ie. prove your doing that against equally geared players... You're not.

 

BTW: *IF you are not *Deception spec-ed this does not apply to you.

 

Oh that argument again...

[Gregory-IRL-Bria]

Assassin/Shadow is probably the most balanced class in the game currently.

 

No

[Jugerot]

1v1 the class is great against most classes with equal gear..however we dont have the big damage abilities that powertechs have, we dont have the range that sorcerers have, ive had a few 300k+ damage matches but i had to work my arse off for it...just to see some operatives and pyrotechs putting up 600k in the same match. please post a screenshot of a 31pt deception assassin on the top of the damage chart. honestly i dont think you will find one. we've got EXCELLENT burst..with good management of darkswell/forcecloak we can do great things. ive got a fresh 50 scorcerer in half centurion gear with 1 or 2 champ pieces that does better damage throughout a match in lightning spec than my full champ deception assassin. now, before you rip me off and go "o well l2p fool" i stack crit and surge, seems to do alot more damage than power or other combinations. please if you think im doing it wrong im open to suggestions.

 

and im not saying deception needs a major buff, sometimes overall damage isnt paramount to victory, and top dps isnt always the most important player on a team. i do fine in my warzones and deffinently feel my presence helps the team as a whole to victory, but i am saying there are a FEW minor balance issues with the class. 5k damage single hit? get that MAYBE once a week with recklessness, OS, and exp adrenal all at once on a weak geared character. i would at least like to see my efforts compare with other classes. i understand in huttball we have no range...get knocked off thats a huge damage loss. but in the other wz if im alive the whole match defending nodes, chainshocking the **** out of people with 2X induction/VS buff and discharge at 5 stacks, maul with EW. my damage with my gear should be much higher.

 

simply put.. on average when a full darkness assassin puts up the same damage as the other deception or madness specced assassins in the same group...thats just not right

 

i rolled an assassin to melee dps. i just hope BW feels the need to make a few minor adjustments soon

 

one suggesstion is to allow tumult to be used in pvp...warriors can use savage kick but we cant use tumult?..big damage situational ability taken off our spell book in pvp isnt quite balanced. that and a slight buff in how fast static charges build up..takes about 18-25 seconds now..perhaps surging charge can have a 10-15% chance to build an extra static charge. thats not an unreasonable request

 

 

oh and please dont remove valor rank requirements for war hero gear...thats just stupid..you shouldnt be able to get the top tier gear the same week you reach 50. i stopped playing wow for that reason..full viscious in 2 weeks? rediculous

 

ok im rambling...balanced? almost...but not quite

[Ahhmyface]

Yes, we are inferior to tanksins, but we don't need more DPS.

 

I actually expect marauders to get a nerf, and the same for bountyhunters, bringing things more or less in line.

 

One thing that DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT, is our ability to kill healer classes. Our dps is too low, and our burst not high enough, and once our cooldowns drop, our dps tanks and we're out of forcepower. I would settle for our discharge applying a -20% heal debuff to the target.

 

Other classes (ops, pyrotech, merc, marauder) can all take down healers a lot easier than we can.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Ahhmyface]

Assassin/Shadow is probably the most balanced class in the game currently.

 

No

 

Kinetic/Darkness shadows are. Not deception/infiltration.

 

It's kind of a joke crappy our "Deception" is. We get basically nothing that helps us to be sneaky or slippery, and our dps is barely higher than kinetic. Assassinate, for example, should be a deception only ability.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Jugerot]

Yes, we are inferior to tanksins, but we don't need more DPS.

 

I actually expect marauders to get a nerf, and the same for bountyhunters, bringing things more or less in line.

 

One thing that DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT, is our ability to kill healer classes. Our dps is too low, and our burst not high enough, and once our cooldowns drop, our dps tanks and we're out of forcepower. I would settle for our discharge applying a -20% heal debuff to the target.

 

Other classes (ops, pyrotech, merc, marauder) can all take down healers a lot easier than we can.

 

 

i agree, its not that we need a buff..its other classes that need a nerf. pts should not be doing 750k in a wz...its much easier to do that much damage when your just sitting back at range free casting in heavy armor Vs. melee dps in light armor..regardless one way or the other somthing needs to be done

[Faeldawn]

Deception isn't bad, it's just not uber fotm min/maxtastic but Dark Charge isn't Deception, it's Darkness. Hybrids cloud the waters here, Deception line mainly applies to Surging Charge....if they aren't using this then they are either Darkness or Hybrid specced, im not sure it's accurate they be considered Deception anymore. This is why the title of the thread is misleading, he's talking about hybrids, not pure Deception.

[Xaearth]

One thing that DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT, is our ability to kill healer classes. Our dps is too low, and our burst not high enough, and once our cooldowns drop, our dps tanks and we're out of forcepower. I would settle for our discharge applying a -20% heal debuff to the target.

 

Other classes (ops, pyrotech, merc, marauder) can all take down healers a lot easier than we can.

 

You're doing it wrong.

Hint: Low Slash...

[AMKSED]

Infiltration/Deception isn't good, especially when ranked WZs come out. Your team isn't going to want you because you're going to die in 1 stun, easily.

[spond]

Resolve kills the class. If resolve didn't fire off so much this class would be fine. Right now, if you use two stuns you're toast.

 

It's amazing, I love this class in pve, especially if I'm soloing. This class is awesome with it's disrupts/stun DPS combo. It just doesn't work out so well in a confined warzone.

[spond]

Infiltration/Deception isn't good, especially when ranked WZs come out. Your team isn't going to want you because you're going to die in 1 stun, easily.

 

You're team will want you if they know how to use you. I'm awesome when the team uses me to tend an opponents goal, toss and destealth, pop an immunity buff, score.

 

Or, you can harass their healer. You may not kill them, but you can keep them from healing the ball carrier constantly and make their lives hell.

 

Either way, prepare to die a lot. If you're doing you job right, you'll die a lot. If you do your job wrong, you'll die a lot and no one will want you on their team.

[Wolfiepriest]

To all the people saying nerf other classes, Please never speak again, you don't bring down good classes to the bad spec's level you bring up the bad spec to the good classes level that way everyone is balanced, the thing is deception assassins are under balanced they need a major buff to there dmg outputs, I hit 26 once and felt like a weak worthless dmg dealer, while every other class ive played , sniper sorc operative, even a low level merc felt more powerful then assassin would ever be

 

So Please BioWare Buff assassin deception spec so they actually do the dmg other dps speced classes do, instead of listening to the cry for nerfing other classes, which would totaly ruin the game

[Zepath]

Love quotes like this. You in full BM gear vs lesser geared people is not a good indicator of what the class can do. Let's see you get half as many medals without "dark charge". Why don't u backup what you are saying instead of just making a blanket statement. Ie. prove your doing that against equally geared players... You're not.

 

BTW: *IF you are not *Deception spec-ed this does not apply to you.

 

You have to ignore statements like this .... if you wanted to waste part of your life, you could probably trace his posts and find he was one of those arguing for the nerf.

 

Think about it ... how many people who are actually playing the class would make such a statement, even if its true?

 

Back on point ... the OP's correct. There has to be a trade off. The ability was put in there to allow a class that can't do wow type lock-downs, to be able to stand toe-to-toe and take the damage, even tho they are a squishy. Now they come along after the fact and take that away.

 

This is exactly how classes end up being totally useless, until the developers throw up their hands and scream, "Arrrrrrggggg!!!! We just have to do a major revamp of all the classes to get this under control again."

 

Like they've done in WoW like 4 times now ... making the game just unplayable.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Zepath

[Maxipad]

Infiltration/Deception isn't good, especially when ranked WZs come out. Your team isn't going to want you because you're going to die in 1 stun, easily.

 

 

Thiz.

[BadNewzzz]

Don't worry, give it a few months and everything else will have been nerfed so much so deception will be very good.

 

Sad but true.

[kijthae]

I dont think deception needs a damage buff.I am critting 5.7k maul , 5k discharge , 4k shock. The problem is I have to crit to be able to reach that much of damage , im hitting shock as low as 1.5k , maul 1.2k when it didnt crit. Main skill to increase damage of deception tree is based 1 skill , crackling blast which increases crit damage of shock/discharge %50. If they make it increase shock / discharge %35 and make it not only crit , base damage our burst spec will become more consistent.