Keihryon Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Oh, dear. Read some of the feats Luke, Abeloth and, anyother Skywalker have done. See I haven't seen much about Abeloth except extreme Force Persuasion, Force Consumption, and being a changeling. Kevin J. Anderson having Luke Force Shield, and hover across an active volcano was over the top though. I never considered them to be overpowered for the most part because no-one knew what could be done with the Force.. I guess I don't consider guiding shadow bombs with the Force as overpowered. and I wondered why Obi-wan didn't use the Force to remove the Buzz droids from his ship in ep. 3. BTW, did none of you see the Clone Wars micro series? Talk about over the top...and it was directly approved by Lucas, like the tv show is. Edited February 9, 2012 by Keihryon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 See I haven't seen much about Abeloth except extreme Force Persuasion, Force Consumption, and being a changeling. Kevin J. Anderson having Luke Force Shield, and hover across an active volcano was over the top though. I never considered them to be overpowered for the most part because no-one knew what could be done with the Force.. I guess I don't consider guiding shadow bombs with the Force as overpowered. and I wondered why Obi-wan didn't use the Force to remove the Buzz droids from his ship in ep. 3. BTW, did none of you see the Clone Wars micro series? Talk about over the top...and it was directly approved by Lucas, like the tv show is. The fact that Luke states Abe is 13 times more powerful than Him automatically makes Abe OP. Luke teleported objects and learned how to make lightning bolts. He made himself immovabe and created blackholes. Luke is the most OP character there is, but I guess the writers have no choice since GL wants him to be like that. Now no one knows how to kill him. Thats why I want the EU to have a clean slate and reset, but its nearly impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 See I haven't seen much about Abeloth except extreme Force Persuasion, Force Consumption, and being a changeling. Kevin J. Anderson having Luke Force Shield, and hover across an active volcano was over the top though. I don't remember that. When did that happen? BTW, did none of you see the Clone Wars micro series? Talk about over the top...and it was directly approved by Lucas, like the tv show is. Oh, I saw it. I found it laughably entertaining from a perspective. (And what the hell happened to those Droidekas' shields?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadtoArkham Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Nah, I prefer him to be just evil hammy dictator, not some well-intention extremist. Beside, we wouldn't have the awesomely hilarious POWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! UNLIMITED POWAH!!!!!! line if Zahn wrote it. Can't do without those lines. Literally made RoS worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The EU is hit or miss, and it really depends so heavily on the caliber of the author that I sometimes feel inclined to simply skip books in the middle of a series because I know the author will fail to deliver. I hate the Old Republic stuff almost unilaterally; the Old Republic stuff expressed via comic book/graphic novel medium tends to be pretty good on the whole. But the books? Ugh. Pure ugh. Worse than NJO ugh (and actually aside from the whole premise/impetus for that series, NJO stands as some of the best writing to ever get done in Star Wars; but look at the caliber of authors and it becomes pretty clear why that is). In short, to someone walking into the EU for the first time today: Zahn, Allston, Stackpole, and possibly Denning (nothing he's written so far has been bad, but he's followed Karen Traviss all through Legacy of the Force so it feels like he's just sweeping up her messes). Steve Perry's single foray is also notable, although when you stop and really consider everything, it does feel sort of derivative. I chalk it up to being a guilty pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keihryon Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I don't remember that. When did that happen? ) When he recruited Gantoris in the first academy book. I think he did the Force Shield/Levitation thing in the Courtship of Princess Leia too...but it's been over a decade since I've read that one. As to Abeloth, we already knew she/it was overpowered. I mean, the Rakata created teh Maw to imprison her because even they couldn't kill her. As for Luke's overpowered-ness. Have you noticed that even with all his power he rarely defeats the over-arc villain one on one? C'Baoth, had Jade's help. Exar Kun, was pretty much out of the picture for that one. Thrawn...had nothing to do with it. Caedus, couldn't bring himself to do it, even the Emperor...his dad ended up killing him. Even in the poorly written ones he usually wasn't the one to take down the big bad. They either brought about their own demise or it was someone else. -edit- Actually, in Courtship I think he used the force to take full control of the Falcon and fly it better than Han and Chewie combined...but I could be misremembering. Edited February 9, 2012 by Keihryon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDemens Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Does anyone else find it strange that the "best" of the EU books don't really focus on the movies main characters? Sure, the Thrawn Trilogy had its Luke & Leia-centric bits, but there was enough new to counteract it, and it felt more like a movie sequel than an EU novel. X-Wing series: Main focus: Wedge Antilles/Rogue Squadron/Wraith Squadron I, Jedi: Main Focus: Corran Horn Tales of the <blank> series: Main Focus: Random background characters Darth Bane series: Main Focus: Bane/Zannah Outbound Flight: Main Focus: Thrawn/Car'das Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) When he recruited Gantoris in the first academy book. I think he did the Force Shield/Levitation thing in the Courtship of Princess Leia too...but it's been over a decade since I've read that one. As to Abeloth, we already knew she/it was overpowered. I mean, the Rakata created teh Maw to imprison her because even they couldn't kill her. As for Luke's overpowered-ness. Have you noticed that even with all his power he rarely defeats the over-arc villain one on one? C'Baoth, had Jade's help. Exar Kun, was pretty much out of the picture for that one. Thrawn...had nothing to do with it. Caedus, couldn't bring himself to do it, even the Emperor...his dad ended up killing him. Even in the poorly written ones he usually wasn't the one to take down the big bad. They either brought about their own demise or it was someone else. -edit- Actually, in Courtship I think he used the force to take full control of the Falcon and fly it better than Han and Chewie combined...but I could be misremembering. I never quite realized that about Luke.. I suppose your right. I mean I think he can take them all on but thats interesting.(Not at the same time)> Edited February 9, 2012 by BrandonSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Does anyone else find it strange that the "best" of the EU books don't really focus on the movies main characters? Sure, the Thrawn Trilogy had its Luke & Leia-centric bits, but there was enough new to counteract it, and it felt more like a movie sequel than an EU novel. X-Wing series: Main focus: Wedge Antilles/Rogue Squadron/Wraith Squadron I, Jedi: Main Focus: Corran Horn Tales of the <blank> series: Main Focus: Random background characters Darth Bane series: Main Focus: Bane/Zannah Outbound Flight: Main Focus: Thrawn/Car'das Honestly, I think its a little bit of both. My favorite novels, Darth Plageuis, Shatterpoint and, Thrawn Tril focus on main characters from the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulta Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 As to Abeloth, we already knew she/it was overpowered. I mean, the Rakata created teh Maw to imprison her because even they couldn't kill her. As for Luke's overpowered-ness. Have you noticed that even with all his power he rarely defeats the over-arc villain one on one? C'Baoth, had Jade's help. Exar Kun, was pretty much out of the picture for that one. Thrawn...had nothing to do with it. Caedus, couldn't bring himself to do it, even the Emperor...his dad ended up killing him. Even in the poorly written ones he usually wasn't the one to take down the big bad. They either brought about their own demise or it was someone else. Yeah he does seem to need help in a bunch of scenarios, course that's probably more because at this point there wouldn't be much of a story he if just rolled the bad guy. As for Abeloth she proves the point that things have gone too far in terms of who's the most powerful. Godlike does make a good villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Does anyone else find it strange that the "best" of the EU books don't really focus on the movies main characters? Sure, the Thrawn Trilogy had its Luke & Leia-centric bits, but there was enough new to counteract it, and it felt more like a movie sequel than an EU novel. X-Wing series: Main focus: Wedge Antilles/Rogue Squadron/Wraith Squadron I, Jedi: Main Focus: Corran Horn Tales of the <blank> series: Main Focus: Random background characters Darth Bane series: Main Focus: Bane/Zannah Outbound Flight: Main Focus: Thrawn/Car'das I don't find it strange at all. It's something I've been trying to get people to recognize for a while now: that there's a lot more entertaining stories out there than a bunch of Jedi talking about their feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDemens Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Force user power currently is quickly suffering from DragonBallZ syndrome. Every new enemy has to be more powerful than the last, until everyone has to have a power level of eleventy bajillion. Remember when the villains of the stories weren't evil massively powerful force users? or some crazy alien race that was immune to their quickly becoming godlike powers? Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Dragonglance and LotR were awesome when I was 13, but at 28 I doubt I could make it through LotR without getting bored.) Dragonlance jumped the shark too... You can, for example, pick up the original series and the following 'twins' trilogy. As readable now as they were when we were kids. But anything after that... did not age well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Force user power currently is quickly suffering from DragonBallZ syndrome. Every new enemy has to be more powerful than the last, until everyone has to have a power level of eleventy bajillion. Remember when the villains of the stories weren't evil massively powerful force users? or some crazy alien race that was immune to their quickly becoming godlike powers? Good times. Oh you mean before Del Rey took over and ****ed everything up? Yeah, those were good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDemens Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Allston is supposed to be putting out a new Wraith Squadron book this year. I'm really looking forward to it, just as a change of pace. The biggest killer for me though was when they decided to go from doing 1-3 book storylines to the massive ones we're getting currently. To start, I'm not really willing to wait several years for the end of a story, so I'm either going to wait until its finished to start it, or I just won't read it. 2-3 books? I'll wait. 4-5? Maybe, if its by an author I trust. More than 5? Not worth the wait. I'm already in the middle of 3 epic series, and I'm not willing to start another one. And don't get me started on the 'revolving door' authorship. 1 series, 1 author. X-Wing pulled off 2 authors, but only by swapping almost the entire main cast. It's not going to work if every author is pushing their little pet project in the middle of a main-line series (I'm looking at you, Travis and your Mandalorians) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadtoArkham Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Some of my favorite, newer, EU books have been by Luceno. I found Darth Plaguesis to be an excellent read, as was the Rise of Darth Vader. I would agree that the Old Republic books were mediocre. I liked the Darth Bane trilogy, but Drew just lost me with Revan... Especially because of what happened to the Exile... And therefore the teachings of Kreia... KRREEEIIIIAAAAA!! Although, honestly, I think the handling of the KoTOR II characters was due to the fact that they were Obsidian creations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Allston is supposed to be putting out a new Wraith Squadron book this year. I'm really looking forward to it, just as a change of pace. Ooh, really? That one I'll read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) The EU is hit or miss, and it really depends so heavily on the caliber of the author that I sometimes feel inclined to simply skip books in the middle of a series because I know the author will fail to deliver. I hate the Old Republic stuff almost unilaterally; the Old Republic stuff expressed via comic book/graphic novel medium tends to be pretty good on the whole. But the books? Ugh. Pure ugh. Worse than NJO ugh (and actually aside from the whole premise/impetus for that series, NJO stands as some of the best writing to ever get done in Star Wars; but look at the caliber of authors and it becomes pretty clear why that is). In short, to someone walking into the EU for the first time today: Zahn, Allston, Stackpole, and possibly Denning (nothing he's written so far has been bad, but he's followed Karen Traviss all through Legacy of the Force so it feels like he's just sweeping up her messes). Steve Perry's single foray is also notable, although when you stop and really consider everything, it does feel sort of derivative. I chalk it up to being a guilty pleasure. I will say, from a writing and fiction perspective, NJO is phenominal. BUT I do not think that it embodies what I believe Star Wars orginated as. It is much to dark, complex and lacks the niaivety that the OT had. I don't shy away from these topics, mind you; I'm a huge fan of the reimagined Battlestar Galactica, but I wish that Star Wars was left popcorn simple with non-complex good vs. evil themes. I can explore my humanity in other series. On Troy Denning, I sort of disagree. He lost me with the Dark Nest Trilogy. Zero redeeming aspects of that IMHO. Edited February 9, 2012 by priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I will say, from a writing and fiction perspective, NJO is phenominal. BUT I do not think that it embodies what I believe Star Wars orginated as. It is much to dark, complex and lacks the niaivety that the OT had. I don't shy away from these topics, mind you; I'm a huge fan of the reimagined Battlestar Galactica, but I wish that Star Wars was left popcorn simple with non-complex good vs. evil themes. I can explore my humanity in other series. Yeah, I'll have to give them credit for that. They're not terrible novels, they're just terrible Star Wars novels (except the Agents of Chaos duology: I thought Luceno's writing of Solo was too out of character, even if he was grieving). I enjoyed reading them, but I didn't like how they fundamentally, and permanently, changed the tone of the Star Wars universe. It all went downhill from there. Edited February 9, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yeah, I'll have to give them credit for that. They're not terrible novels, they're just terrible Star Wars novels (except the Agents of Chaos duology: I thought Luceno's writing of Solo was too out of character, even if he was grieving). I enjoyed reading them, but I didn't like how they fundamentally, and permanently, changed the tone of the Star Wars universe. It all went downhill from there. You are exactly right. Anyone have Shelly Shapiro's address? She needs to get in on this talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratho Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) The only books I have read are those where Obi-Wan is still Qui-Gon's padawan (I kinda liked those books because you could actually read one book in a day) and Revenge of the Sith novel, honestly speaking I didn't like it at all. The books after Return of the Jedi are just plain crap because of Emperor's rebirth, it totally ruins that wonderful scene where Vader saves his son. That's also why I will not see the books after Return of the Jedi as canon, they are just crap and they disrespect the main character of the saga. As for other books, I have no interest. Fans put too much weight on EU anyway I think. Edited February 9, 2012 by Zeratho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDeschain Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I love the Expanded Universe novels. Most are well written and keep me coming back to re-read them. Crystal Star is an exception. I thought that was a poor book. Things really picked up with the New Jedi Order series. It was long but it was great. I never saw the death of Chewie coming. Anakin's death made me sad. Tahiri's struggles with both her time as a Vong prisoner and then Anakin's death kept one wondering if she would be alright or snap and go insane. Mara's death in the Legacy series was a total shocker. But that was the point. I love the fact that the EU has taken a darker turn. I hated that Mara Jade was killed and not Leia but it had the desired effect. And the Fate series is even better. Will Luke die fighting Abeloth? What happens between Vestara and Ben? Does he find out she gave up on turning Jedi? Do they fall in love? What happens to the Lost Tribe? I can barely contain my excitement for final book to be released. In short this all comes down to personal opinion. For me the EU has been awesome. Yes there have been some sub-par books, but that has to be expected. The authors do a great job and I look forward to future stories. I would also like to mention that in addition to Crystal Star the Death Troopers novel was bad. It was an even worse content addition to the Star Wars Galaxies MMO. What was LA thinking with that one? With ya here, I love the EU! I've read over 60 books now, all of Zahn is great, NJO was awesome and epic for me the Vong IMO were a more menacing threat then Sidious' Empire, they literally wanted to enslave and kill everything the whole darn galaxy and almost accomplish that plus their resilience against the force made it an interesting fight for the jedi. I enjoyed legacy to me that was the fall to the dark side i didnt really get in the prequel trilogy, you can actually see Jacens slow decent from Star by Star when he watches his brother die all the way to when he kills Mara and becomes a Sith Lord. Great stuff IMO again. Fate I am currently 6 books deep and after I finish Plagueis which btw is probably one of the best EU books ever, i will then finish FOTJ. Bane trilogy was awesome, so far i like all the TOR related books. I have not yet really read to many Clone Wars books, only the one about Yoda and the Vader book. Look people things can be perfect, and SW is pretty much a giant canvas/sandbox for writers to get crazy with but all in all i think most of the books are rather enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 I just wanted to post...when Callista made a re-appearance in FOTJ...It made me want to throw the book away. SERIOUSLY!?!?!?!? I can't wait for this series to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustrumRidcully Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Nah, I prefer him to be just evil hammy dictator, not some well-intention extremist. Beside, we wouldn't have the awesomely hilarious POWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! UNLIMITED POWAH!!!!!! line if Zahn wrote it. Oh, I didn't mean to add some well-intentioned extremist. I meant it more like that we may see more of his predictions and planning. He can still be an evil hammy dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Some of my favorite, newer, EU books have been by Luceno. I found Darth Plaguesis to be an excellent read, as was the Rise of Darth Vader. I would agree that the Old Republic books were mediocre. I liked the Darth Bane trilogy, but Drew just lost me with Revan... Especially because of what happened to the Exile... And therefore the teachings of Kreia... KRREEEIIIIAAAAA!! Although, honestly, I think the handling of the KoTOR II characters was due to the fact that they were Obsidian creations. This! I agree, DP book was amazing and TOR books were terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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