JediMasterShake Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) EDIT: The patch notes and Georg's first post of the day lead me (and many others) to wrong conclusions. Gabe has posted the official new token system, and that is posted here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2452276#edit2452276 ---------------- This is not a knock on Bioware, Georg, or anyone in particular. This is a life lesson. The pure RNG system of distributing champion PvP gear was poorly conceived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve The tail of that graphs represents 30, 40, 50,000 real people who play TOR, who have gotten utterly shafted by this system. Sure, the folks on the other side of the bell are ok with system, hell, they like it (or maybe they felt their gear came too easy...another problem) But this is math. Bioware was GUARANTEED to piss off many, many people who played many, many Warzones trying to get geared up. It was a bad system. Plain and simple. The number of commendations in Champion and Battlemaster Bags has been greatly increased, and the direct item trade tokens appear less frequently in Champion Bags. This change allows players to obtain PvP gear at a steady and significantly more predictable rate with an occasional bonus. Now, instead of creating a new system of distributing PvP gear, something that could be drawn up in a matter of minutes (and implemented in a matter of days), they stuck with their mistake, avoiding having to admit it was a failure. When you make a mistake in life, fix it and move on. Admitting when you've ****ed up and owning your mistake is one of the most admirable qualities a person can have. Edited February 2, 2012 by JediMasterShake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirin Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Couldn't agree more. They need to suck it up and admit they need to try something new. In the meantime, making it even harder for new PvPers to catch up to people who have Champion gear is several steps in the wrong direction. For every one person I've seen praising this change, I've seen 10 damning it, but GZ acted like it's actually what we wanted? Maybe when the game launched, but not now. Though it's already too late. Once something goes into the patch notes it will be in the game no matter how many people are dissatisfied with it. Really just disgusting, and I used to be an ultimate fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 ...words... Life's not fair. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalmac Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Life's not fair. Deal with it. Is this game your life? I pay money to have fun, you do not pay money to breath. Your logic is flawed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Yup when you do the math and look at the differences in equipment tiers these changes have a net negative effect on helping balance the gap. I've already made my decision, until they get a clue on how to balance, I'm shelving or deleting lvl 50 toons. Ilum is a joke, and the gear grind is simply not worth the frustration for the time invested. EA , yes EA I refuse to call you guys Bioware, you're not, you are just another EA Studio like Mythic was and if you don't get it together you'll be gutted just like they were as well, have shown time and time again how not to balance PvP in your MMO's. Here's a suggestion, next time you get an idea, do the exact opposite. You've screwed up UO with Item dependency, WAR I have no experience in, but I heard it's not much different, and now your next "great" MMO adventure is getting screwed over through Item dependency out weighing skill on the whole. How many times does a trend have to repeat before you notice a pattern? Just because the Mythbusters figured out how to polish a turd doesn't mean you can do it. Fix the issues don't hide them. Edited February 2, 2012 by Quantum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterShake Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Life's not fair. Deal with it. I suppose you didn't read my post. Or if you did, you didn't process it with honesty, if that makes sense. I'm not complaining about a single thing. I myself fell about dead middle in the bell curve (math!). But I know folks who are at both ends of the spectrum. It was a poor game system, and game systems are things that interest me greatly. Finally, Bioware has addressed the issue, their objectively poor game system... but instead of admitting their mistake, they have put some makeup on it and passed it off as fixed. This is a life lesson. Admit your mistakes. It builds character. Perhaps there's a reason you missed the point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posixgod Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This is not a knock on Bioware, Georg, or anyone in particular. This is a life lesson. The pure RNG system of distributing champion PvP gear was poorly conceived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve The tail of that graphs represents 30, 40, 50,000 real people who play TOR, who have gotten utterly shafted by this system. Sure, the folks on the other side of the bell are ok with system, hell, they like it (or maybe they felt their gear came too easy...another problem) But this is math. Bioware was GUARANTEED to piss off many, many people who played many, many Warzones trying to get geared up. It was a bad system. Plain and simple. Now, instead of creating a new system of distributing PvP gear, something that could be drawn up in a matter of minutes (and implemented in a matter of days), they stuck with their mistake, avoiding having to admit it was a failure. When you make a mistake in life, fix it and move on. Admitting when you've ****ed up and owning your mistake is one of the most admirable qualities a person can have. Well said JediMasterShake, agree entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm on the right side of the Bell curve. I got full champion gear except ear and offhand by valor rank 38. And I still hate the RNG system. Seeing someone valor rank 57 with less gear than me is just SAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illwill- Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm on the right side of the Bell curve. I got full champion gear except ear and offhand by valor rank 38. And I still hate the RNG system. Seeing someone valor rank 57 with less gear than me is just SAD. Except for when it comes to IQ, I am always on the left side of the <beep> Bell curse. I hate random, I hate luck, I want skill to matter! That said, I don't care...this game is so badly coded that I doubt anyone would play the game, had not BW been behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterShake Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Well said JediMasterShake, agree entirely. /nods I'm on the right side of the Bell curve. I got full champion gear except ear and offhand by valor rank 38. And I still hate the RNG system. Seeing someone valor rank 57 with less gear than me is just SAD. There you have it. Who would've thought being handed free loot would be a bad thing...actually, pretty much anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I think that this is why they are moving away from people relying on the RNG to get their gear and instead moving towards giving more commendations so that they can just buy it. Isn't that what they said they are gonna do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) There you have it. Who would've thought being handed free loot would be a bad thing...actually, pretty much anyone. Actually the best part is I still am missing the offhand and ear. The more gear you get - the lower chance you have of getting the pieces you need. I have what? 4 bracers and 3 boots now? 4 implants? How could any developer think DIMINISHING RETURNS ON RANDOM GEAR was a system anyone could ever get behind? The more you are blessed by RNG - the more it can screw you later! Edited February 2, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlynn Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Life's not fair. Deal with it. LOL, probably coming from some imp that farmed valor on Illum and only horde plays. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterShake Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I think that this is why they are moving away from people relying on the RNG to get their gear and instead moving towards giving more commendations so that they can just buy it. Isn't that what they said they are gonna do? What they've said, and you can check the patch notes and Georg's post, is that they've: - Increased Centurion Comms in bag (which buys rating 126 gear) - Decreased actual gear piece tokens in bags (which buys the 136 rating gear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I think that this is why they are moving away from people relying on the RNG to get their gear and instead moving towards giving more commendations so that they can just buy it. Isn't that what they said they are gonna do? It is except the gap between T1 and T2 gear is where the vast divide is (126 vs 136). T2 and T3 (136 vs 140) gear it isn't so obvious. What would have been effective is either A) Balancing the Gap between tiers to withing a competitive range, or B) Change the system to speed up the jump from T1 to T2 gear. They did neither, what they are doing is the same they did with Brackets, trying to hide the actual issue instead of fixing it. What this change does though is make it easier to get 126 gear while not addressing the fact it's not really much better than most PvE Gear (even Rakata) once you factor in the benefits of Expertise. Edited February 2, 2012 by Quantum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaidarlol Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Is this game your life? I pay money to have fun, you do not pay money to breath. Your logic is flawed here. you do pay money to breath sir, it's called food and water, last time i checked those aren't free, at least not in the world i live in Edited February 2, 2012 by shaidarlol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vewdo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 With all due respect to everyone else and thier comments. We need to give Bioware some credit. The PvE content is flawless. Its fun, in depth, and flows wonderfully. They did something noone else has and executed it flawlessly. However it is obvious where thier efforts were directed because as we all see the PvP aspect got little to no attention. So yes they need to hurry up, stop fixing little thing, and get all thier efforts on the PvP system. This isnt some broken quest, or graphical bug. This is the entire games PvP system. This is a much bigger issue than anything else (just my opinion) But yeah come on BIOWARE your company has a great rep for making wonderful games. Time to show us you can fix the problems now and keep your good rep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felene Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This is not a knock on Bioware, Georg, or anyone in particular. This is a life lesson. The pure RNG system of distributing champion PvP gear was poorly conceived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve The tail of that graphs represents 30, 40, 50,000 real people who play TOR, who have gotten utterly shafted by this system. Sure, the folks on the other side of the bell are ok with system, hell, they like it (or maybe they felt their gear came too easy...another problem) But this is math. Bioware was GUARANTEED to piss off many, many people who played many, many Warzones trying to get geared up. It was a bad system. Plain and simple. Now, instead of creating a new system of distributing PvP gear, something that could be drawn up in a matter of minutes (and implemented in a matter of days), they stuck with their mistake, avoiding having to admit it was a failure. When you make a mistake in life, fix it and move on. Admitting when you've ****ed up and owning your mistake is one of the most admirable qualities a person can have. Dev respond. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lividcalm Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I suppose you didn't read my post. Or if you did, you didn't process it with honesty, if that makes sense. I'm not complaining about a single thing. I myself fell about dead middle in the bell curve (math!). But I know folks who are at both ends of the spectrum. It was a poor game system, and game systems are things that interest me greatly. Finally, Bioware has addressed the issue, their objectively poor game system... but instead of admitting their mistake, they have put some makeup on it and passed it off as fixed. This is a life lesson. Admit your mistakes. It builds character. Perhaps there's a reason you missed the point... Really? So, you want Bioware to what, apologize to you and say they were wrong because of a flawed game mechanic? Happens in ALL games, dude. Not something they need to apologize or admit a mistake over. As a previous poster said, get over it. LOL Incidentally, If this is how the world works now, I am waiting on a very long apology from Blizzard. Edited February 2, 2012 by Lividcalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) With all due respect to everyone else and thier comments. We need to give Bioware some credit. The PvE content is flawless. Raided lately? Every other boss is bugged to crap. Their end game content is pretty much a joke. Edited February 2, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathrafal Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 you do pay money to breath sir, it's called food and water, last time i checked those aren't free, at least not in the world i live in Um, no, that would be "eating and drinking" not breathing. Last I checked, in the US anyway, breathing was still free, unless you need an oxygen tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterShake Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Dev respond. Nuff said. Oh, so they did fix it. Just to be clear, the patch notes and Georg's first post (which I believe has been edited), if read literally did NOT lead you to believe the same conclusion that Gabe just posted. Gabe describes a logical fix. I will retract my initial post completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Moral of the story - do not open any of your bags that you get from dailies today, save them until they make the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Ya, the initial patch notes were unclear- but, even if it took a month and a half- this should give people that progression they were looking for much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vewdo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Raided lately? Every other boss is bugged to crap. Their end game content is pretty much a joke. Okay okay fine i went a little overboard to call it flawless. But in the grand scheme of things you gotta admit despite a few things here and there the PvE is pretty damn good all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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