Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

[jmdatcs]

Well, I'm guessing the same can be said of the player characters. They can get by perfectly well in greens too. Unless they are all kinds of suck too?

 

You guess wrong.

 

Even if the content is doable for you, you might have a hard time getting a group to take you on most HMs and OPS. I think it's stupid but I've had a couple group leaders that wanted to inspect me to make sure I met whatever requirements they thought were needed for higher level HMs.

 

And that only matters if you are going to say greens are ok for high level HMs, but you're not going to say that just to try and advance your argument for being a ************, are you?

[crica]

You guess wrong.

 

Even if the content is doable for you, you might have a hard time getting a group to take you on most HMs and OPS. I think it's stupid but I've had a couple group leaders that wanted to inspect me to make sure I met whatever requirements they thought were needed for higher level HMs.

 

And that only matters if you are going to say greens are ok for high level HMs, but you're not going to say that just to try and advance your argument for being a ************, are you?

 

if you and I both want to use the same item, and we BOTH helped to make the item drop, please enlighten us all as to why you think my contribution of helping to make the item drop doesn't warrant the exact same chance to win it as your contribution does?

 

sorry, but your wants are no more important then anyone else's wants in a video game

Edited February 6, 2012 by crica

[AsheraII]

You guess wrong.

 

Even if the content is doable for you, you might have a hard time getting a group to take you on most HMs and OPS. I think it's stupid but I've had a couple group leaders that wanted to inspect me to make sure I met whatever requirements they thought were needed for higher level HMs.

 

And that only matters if you are going to say greens are ok for high level HMs, but you're not going to say that just to try and advance your argument for being a ************, are you?

Wrong topic mate, we're talking oranges in leveling flashpoints here. That's quite a few days of playing away from HM's and Ops, which are only available at level cap. By the time you could either have in your Ops:

1) Someone who rolls need on every single shiny that gives him/her just one additional point in whatever stat while trashing the old thing he outrolled you on yesterday and which would still be a small upgrade to you.

2) Someone who's taken care of his character, giving it the looks he wants, and knows his way around item modifications and what stats go where and come where from, picking carefully that which benefits him (which would only be items with useful mods) instead of every shiny encountered "because it's for his class".

[sjmc]

Wrong topic mate, we're talking oranges in leveling flashpoints here.

Both companion gear and non-class-stat-armor-mod orange gear have the similar issue of not "qualifying" under some people's vision of "need". Some other things that I can think of that would not qualify, yet people might "want/need", might be mercenary commendations and spaceship parts.

 

Does anyone here think that you should be able to "need" on one of the things I listed above, but not others?

Edited February 6, 2012 by sjmc

[itekazzawrrlic]

If you cant see the difference between the pixels played by people and the ones played by...no one, i suggest schooling.

 

ummm I tell my companion who to attack and what to attack with, so i suggest you re evaluate your position cause reality doesn't agree.

[ferroz]

Put simply anyone who needs on loot for there fake pixel buddy companion, over the needs of a real person who actually needs that loot is simply selfish and you should waste no time on pond life such as them.

That's amazing! Where did you find in game loot that players can wear?!!1!eleven?

 

Oh wait, you're talking about loot that one of my character's would wear, and you're comparing loot for their fake pixel buddy companion vs loot for loot for their fake pixel character.

 

In both cases, a real life person is rolling for things that the real life person wants.

In both cases, a real life person wins the item that they wanted.

In both cases, a fake pixel character winds up equipping the item.

 

Why do you you think that it's reasonable to tell one person that they aren't allowed to roll need on that?

 

 

If you cant see the difference between the pixels played by people and the ones played by...no one, i suggest schooling.

I don't see the difference between the one set of pixels played by you and the other that is also played by you. Edited February 6, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

consolidated double post Edited February 6, 2012 by ferroz

[Eldren]

Cut the companion needers some slack. If they "need" to gear their companion with anything other than kind of near to level greens to get through the non-heroics, they suck really, really bad. Just be glad they didn't cause you to wipe on the fight.

 

Seriously though, in all the discussions I've seen about this, I haven't seen anyone point out how unimportant blue, and especially purple, companion gear is. If you really do "need" it, you are all kinds of suck.

 

Maybe someone has said it, but I haven't seen it (admittedly I haven't read any where near all of the posts on this, but who has the time?).

 

I'm afraid this just doesn't hold up, and approaches dangerously close to attacking the person instead of the idea. It seems like you're unable to actually refute someone's legitimate claim to an item they helped cause drop, so you instead cast aspersions on the person holding a view contrary to yours. Very bad form, and it only makes you look worse, not them.

 

As has been asked already, if someone wants an item that you want, what makes your wants a higher priority than theirs? At the end of it all, you were in a group who all worked to defeat a boss who dropped some loot, loot that different players all have equal rights to, even if it's for radically different reasons. The best you can do is roll on a priority that matches your personal desire for the item, and let the dice fall where they may.

 

No one owns it til it's been put in someone's inventory, so no one can "steal" it from someone else. After an item goes in someone's inventory, it's theirs, and you have no right (and thankfully no ability) to determine what someone else does with their property. All the bully-tactic threats of guild or server blacklisting, dire predictions of that player's inability to get groups in the future, won't change that fundamental fact: it's theirs, to do with as they want, and they don't require your permission to roll Need on it in the first place.

 

So why act as though they should?

[itekazzawrrlic]

I'm afraid this just doesn't hold up, and approaches dangerously close to attacking the person instead of the idea. It seems like you're unable to actually refute someone's legitimate claim to an item they helped cause drop, so you instead cast aspersions on the person holding a view contrary to yours. Very bad form, and it only makes you look worse, not them.

 

As has been asked already, if someone wants an item that you want, what makes your wants a higher priority than theirs? At the end of it all, you were in a group who all worked to defeat a boss who dropped some loot, loot that different players all have equal rights to, even if it's for radically different reasons. The best you can do is roll on a priority that matches your personal desire for the item, and let the dice fall where they may.

 

No one owns it til it's been put in someone's inventory, so no one can "steal" it from someone else. After an item goes in someone's inventory, it's theirs, and you have no right (and thankfully no ability) to determine what someone else does with their property. All the bully-tactic threats of guild or server blacklisting, dire predictions of that player's inability to get groups in the future, won't change that fundamental fact: it's theirs, to do with as they want, and they don't require your permission to roll Need on it in the first place.

 

So why act as though they should?

 

This ^^

[CBGB]

it's theirs, to do with as they want, and they don't require your permission to roll Need on it in the first place.

So why act as though they should?

 

We're still stuck at the difference between 'can' and 'may.' The first requires no consideration of anyone else while the second does. Clearly you can roll, but whether you should is a different question.

 

'Needers' here seem to feel that loot dynamics can be managed simply by looking after your own interests, leaving your teammates in turn to look out for themselves. But doing so is not only inconsiderate, it also weakens your team.

 

If my Marauder rolls on an item that improves your Agent but not vice-versa, and if I do the same, we will each improve our stats only half as often. If the rest of the team responds that way, our odds of bettering our abilities drop to a quarter. Your chance of getting, say, an upgraded chest drop in an FP run drops from roughly 1-in-6 (as a few items are not only class but AC-specific) to 1-in-24. Bleah.

 

Grabbing 'because I can' is a losing standard.

[EvilGoodOne]

Needers getting kicked and never getting invite again, if they are from my guild - getting kicked out of it - no explanation, no talking, no QQing, quick and quiet.

 

Its not to punish, but to avoid them, they can run in groups when everybody needs everything, i aint care.

[ArtMonster]

You guys sure do linger in the 'hate' area of the forums.....

 

 

 

*clicks 'need' .....again.

 

 

 

.

[Nightfox_]

Wow, this thread is still going? All of you realize it's the exact same two trolls, who are probably the only people in the entire game who will ninja your loot for companions.

[BinxDarkstar]

I look at it this way, if you want to need on a non-class item, that's fine. If I want to kick you out of my group for doing so, that's also fine.

[Setanian]

I look at it this way, if you want to need on a non-class item, that's fine. If I want to kick you out of my group for doing so, that's also fine.

 

I look at it this way, if you think you can dictate to me what I can need on, you aint getting into my group

 

See how it works?

Edited February 11, 2012 by Setanian

[Andrius-]

Today: The foundry hard mode

 

My team: 2 bounty hunter, 2 sith warriors.

 

Item from boss:

 

columi imperial agent boots

 

 

Item from bonus boss:

 

tionese sith inquisitor belt

 

 

My question:

 

WHY THE ****?! WHY?!.

 

Seriously, why do we have to get items for classes who aren't in the party. I'm sick of wasting my time doing hardmodes where anyone, not me and not my guildmates get something interesting.

 

I hope it's a bug wich BW will fix soon.

[Setanian]

We're still stuck at the difference between 'can' and 'may.' The first requires no consideration of anyone else while the second does. Clearly you can roll, but whether you should is a different question.

 

'Needers' here seem to feel that loot dynamics can be managed simply by looking after your own interests, leaving your teammates in turn to look out for themselves. But doing so is not only inconsiderate, it also weakens your team.

 

If my Marauder rolls on an item that improves your Agent but not vice-versa, and if I do the same, we will each improve our stats only half as often. If the rest of the team responds that way, our odds of bettering our abilities drop to a quarter. Your chance of getting, say, an upgraded chest drop in an FP run drops from roughly 1-in-6 (as a few items are not only class but AC-specific) to 1-in-24. Bleah.

 

Grabbing 'because I can' is a losing standard.

 

Consideration is subjective. I may consider if I need something more than you. If I consider i do, I'm going to need.

 

Dictating how others play is also a losing standard. The truth of it is, you were p*ssed you lost the roll on something you felt you had a right to. The problem is; you had no right in the first place, and now you're here trying to defend that lost argument.

 

Using the 'the group will be at a loss' if players need on whatever they want is also a lost argument. because, the truth of it is, there no item you can mention that drops in any setting that will make the difference in you completing or not completing the content you are in.

[Havokk]

The overriding issue is the definition of need.

 

I disagree. I think the issue is the definiton of "for class". There are a lot of posters who are insisting that other players not roll need on "their" gear, without providing any definition of "their".

 

Leaving aside the issue of companions (something unique to this game, I believe), there is then issue of mods.

 

An orange item has three mods. How do you suggest the "need/greed" system works between players that plan to use only some of them? Is a player who plans to use one of them not allowed to roll "Need" vs a player who plans to use two of them?

 

Removing any mod from a BoE item binds that item and its mods (IIRC) so there is no way to share the mods between multiple players.

 

I believe orange item drops should always be modification-less. That way the roll can be based on nothing but aesthetics.

 

More generally, what makes an item "for a Jedi Sentinel" anyway?

 

What class are these items "for"?

Light Armour with +Strength?

Sniper Rifle (Republic side)?

Techblade?

[Katiroth]

I... simply always thought it was the polite thing to do, to refrain from rolling need on items that I didn't readily need, even if my companions did, if there was a class that I was with that did need it.

 

...Long sentence is long.

 

Huh. I learned something new tonight, it seems.

[wainot-keel]

I... simply always thought it was the polite thing to do, to refrain from rolling need on items that I didn't readily need, even if my companions did, if there was a class that I was with that did need it.

 

...Long sentence is long.

 

Huh. I learned something new tonight, it seems.

 

 

Yes, it's the polite thing to do, but people don't seem to care about that. I don't bother saying anything beforehand because is no use. People can be p****s and there are no consequences.

 

You can have a peek on how things are going to play out before the bosses. I initially pass on items that aren't best suited for my class. If the others do the same, I keep doing that (ofc, there's no guarantee that they won't screw you over the orange stuff at the end, but it's a start) If not, I roll 'need' on everything.

 

If my friends/guildies are offline and I have pug the heroics, I do it so fully aware that there are good chances of getting screwed. This may sound cynical, but sadly that's how it is.

Edited February 28, 2012 by wainot-keel