Xallionn Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I'm currently a level 49 healer and I've leveled up in warzones as a healer since level 10. I have to say that if you aren't getting the 10 and 25 kill medals as a healer then you should probably rethink how you are healing. I don't play for medals. I couldn't care less about them. I do play with some dps thrown in because I believe it's the most helpful for the team. I'm pvp spec'd so I don't have an aoe heal, but I'll still do around 400k in a warzone. As a sorc, we have the aoe knockback. You not only "tag" everyone you hit with this, but you also disrupt them as well, which means they don't do damage for a bit. We also have a stun that will both tag someone and also prevent damage. Doing this by itself should award you with the 10 kills medal every time. If you aren't doing dps some times as a healer, then there are serious issues. A teammate isn't going to be on the verge of dieing all the time in which case you should go on the offensive. I'll typically target an enemy who is around 30% or less hp and start to dps them if none of my teammates are going to die without my heals in the next 4-5 seconds. Our lightning or telekinetic throw has a very nice snare on it so the enemy can not run away easily. I'll typically channel and then throw a rock at them. This not only ensures that the enemy dies, but it also makes them die faster and reduces the damage that the enemy is able to do before they die. That said, I rarely get the 75k damage metal though that'll probably change once I get better gear. Below are the medals I can get in most fights: Medic – 2.5k healing from a single heal Healer - Healing 75K Savior - Healing 300K Quick Draw – Getting a killing blow on one player Commando – Killing 10 enemy players Soldier – Killing 25 enemy players Defender – Earning 1k Defender Points Warden - Earning 3k Defender Points Once in a while I'll get these, but it's very uncommon. Assassin – Killing a player in a one-on-one fight Combatant – Dealing 75k damage Edited February 3, 2012 by Xallionn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatumsa Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The only time I've PvPed was on my then level 12 Inquisitor and I ended up 3rd on the heal list lol. Not PvPed since as it was like watching a slideshow some of the time :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semitote Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Careful with screenshots like this. The fact that you can even get that high in healing might result in your class being nerfed. Be glad you can heal for that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanistir Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I am the OP, I didnt start this thread to have less experienced players/healers share their "wisdom" with me on how to play this class inside or outside of pvp. I dont heal every warzone like this, it was only meant to show that a crazy amount of healing can be done with almost no reward. There was no meter padding or lifetapping just alot of damage coming in and healing going out. Usually I do go for medals but there was enough dmg from the imps and I had been wanting to try for 1 mil for a while so when I saw the score sheet at the end I was completely shocked I only got 3 medals. I have read all the posts and would like to change my original request for 600k/900k meds as these wouldnt really do anything besides encourage healers to blindly play whack-a-mole with their raid frames for 20 mins at a time. Somone had made a post earlier suggesting a "Savior" medal for healing somone under 20% hp preventing them from certain death. This seams like a very good suggestion as it would not only add another medal to a healers bag of tricks but also encourage dps to use their healing/life saving abilities to help nearby allies avoid being killed, promoting good play. Put this in and call it the "Jayess" medal, lol kidding, but srsly do it Edited February 3, 2012 by Zanistir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I am the OP, I didnt start this thread to have less experienced players/healers share their "wisdom" with me on how to play this class inside or outside of pvp. I dont heal every warzone like this, it was only meant to show that a crazy amount of healing can be done with almost no reward. There was no meter padding or lifetapping just alot of damage coming in and healing going out. Usually I do go for medals but there was enough dmg from the imps and I had been wanting to try for 1 mil for a while so when I saw the score sheet at the end I was completely shocked I only got 3 medals. I have read all the posts and would like to change my original request for 600k/900k meds as these wouldnt really do anything besides encourage healers to blindly play whack-a-mole with their raid frames for 20 mins at a time. Somone had made a post earlier suggesting a "Savior" medal for healing somone under 20% hp preventing them from certain death. This seams like a very good suggestion as it would not only add another medal to a healers bag of tricks but also encourage dps to use their healing/life saving abilities to help nearby allies avoid being killed, promoting good play. Put this in and call it the "Jayess" medal, lol kidding, but srsly do it If you are pro, please go play an Operative/Scoundrel healer, and tell me how it goes for you, compared to your sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageLaL Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Because it's open to abuse. Take OP's SS for example. You can tell by his 900K healing and 8K damage that he spent almost the entire game spamming shield and heals on his teammate. And a big chunk of those from the sage's AoE heal. If healing someone means you get kills from that person's kill, healers that engage in multi-target heal or AoE-heal will have 50+ or even 100+ kills in a full game. This game really doesn't require much for you to get "credit" for kills. ONE damage is okay. JUST ONE. Whether it is an instant damaging ability while you're changing positioning, or tab-dotting, or even your knockback spell (which does AoE damage) to gain some area to heal, the fact that you did some sort of damage gives you the kill. It is honestly not hard to get at least 10 kills as a healer, and any one who argues that it is even remotely difficult is full of crap. Healers got shafted, it's true. As long as there are heal-capable DPS classes, you will not see medals like "X amount of heals in 1 life" added to the game. Those heal-capable DPS classes already take advantage of some of the healing medals. That would be abuse if getting a 100 kills meant something. Healers will get the maximum of 2 extra medals if this was the way kills were awarded, that would bring their average medal count to what dps already achieves and lower than what tanks are getting. How is this in anyway a bad idea? Its not like dps don't use AoE abilities during combat resulting in them tagging targets they were possibly not involved in the kill of, or tanks for that matter, why should healers be any different? Personally I think its lazy/bad design on the developers part, I can't come up with any logical reasoning why the system would operate the way it does and I doubt BW would give us their justification for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilintar Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 900k healing sure takes both gear and skill. However, what it takes more is a complete lack of skill (or teamplay, or both) from the opposing side. 900k healing means he basically sat uninterrupted for the entire warzone doing healing. Mitigating 900k done of damage. Nobody ever came over and thought "hey, that guy with all the green icons all over him? how about we shut him down?". Second thing is people saying stuff like "a healer should never DPS, it is not optimal". That's pure bull. Let me draw out a single scenario for you. Say you run in a team of 2 (healer + dps) into an opposing team of 2 DPS. Your DPS starts damaging, you start healing, but the damage from 2 DPS is slowly becoming too much for you to handle. However, your teammate hes gotten one of the opposing DPS into 10% HP, when suddenly an opposing healer shows up. Now, what happens if you keep healing is that the healer will heal up the opposing DPS, then will probably put a stun/interrupt on you while the 2 DPS finish off your partner (and then you). However, if you do one of the following things (say you're a sage healer): * fire a TK throw/project on the opposing DPS to finish him off before the opposing healer can heal him * stun/interrupt the enemy healer so that your DPS can take the opposing DPS down the opposing DPS will die, and you will be faced with a healer/DPS vs healer/DPS scenario. There are so many cases like this when you should be crucially using other abilities than healing for optimal team outcome (not for medals) that it's not even possible to list them all. I'll just mention one which has been brought up in this topic - planting in Voidstar is all about burst or stealth. Having a sustained damage output that beats your opponents means nothing if they can reinforce on time. Therefore, out of two scenarios * you fight 6v6 on one side of Voidstar, 4 of your side survive vs. just one opponent, but then reinforcements come * you fight 6v6 on one side as before, only 2 of you survive, but no opponents the second one is obviously preferrable. The second one is also the more likely to require the healer to forgo the healing (and even let some of his companions die) and dish out damage. Also, there are scenarios that interrupt any "max healing" scenarios, such as cases (as the Voidstar one) where burst healing is much more important than sustained healing and thus you pop out your max heals / aoe heals / force shields like crazy, then have 0% mana so you let yourself get killed together with your team in order to come back fresh with full mana, instead of staying around and balancing your heals around Resplendence to keep you up all the time like you do in endgame PvE situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eortotai Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) please do the other things that get you medals. Pressing three buttons and targeting your own faction isn't skillful. I hope you never get healed in PvP again. That aside, I agree with the OP. (See TL;DR version if you must) My main beef is this: playing as a healer in TOR in PvP is nearly pointless for medals, progression, and comms. If you stick to your job and just heal your team, like I try and do much of the time, you get 3-4 medals. The 2.5k heal and 75k healing are both easily obtainable. Unless your game gets cut short, 300k healing is not too hard to obtain either. That's where your medals stop flowing as a healer. Until you're outfitted with very good crit/surge gear, it will be extremely hard to crit for a 5k heal during a game for the 5k heal medal. It's much easier to do it out of Warzones because of the 30% healing debuff as soon as the game starts. This medal is not easily obtainable. As far as I know, those are the only healing medals; 2.5k heal, 5k heal, 75k healing, and 300k healing. Regarding objective points, healers are weak and can't take much damage. Find yourself close to an objective for too long and you'll get focus-fired into oblivion. That throws defense points out the window because you need to be pretty close to get them, and you generally can't stay that close to the action if you do your job of healing. Basically, as a healer I need to try and steal kills as well as at least get some DPS on people (which takes away from my job as a healer) to get 2 extra medals; a killing blow medal and a 10 kills medal. However, I don't want to steal people's kills, and I do want to focus on healing, not DPSing people with gimpy attacks. What about my static barrier? That doesn't give ANY stats towards getting a medal, and yet it's a major ability of the healing Sage/Sorcerer. What about stunning, CCing, and snaring people? That's also a major part of playing a healer. What about healing in one life? How this was an oversight is completely beyond me. Really? There's defense in one life, but not healing??? Let's compare this to tanks. As a tank, your role is this: to take damage from other players via guarding (protection) and taunting, as well as DPSing players. Let's consider protection for a second. If you run into a group of enemies and taunt them all as well as have a guarded player, it is very easy to rack up defender points VERY fast. I saw multiple times today that a couple of my guildies would get 3 defense medals from a single fight... about 2 minutes into the game. You get the 2k defense in one life, 10k defense in one life, and 5k defense. Add this to the killing blow you can easily achieve as a tank, and also generally comes in the first couple minutes of a game. There's 4 medals so far. As the game progresses, it is very easy to achieve 50k defense total if you're doing your job as a tank, 75k damage, 10 kills, and 25 kills. That's another 4 medals, bringing us to a grand total of 8 medals. If you also do your job of defending and tanking people on objectives, you can easily get the 1k objective medal and possibly the 3k objective medal. If you achieve this, you're up to 10 medals. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt however, and say you can get 8 medals average per game. The most important thing to understand is that these are all part of the tanks job. I won't go that in-depth for DPS players as well, but suffice it to say it's not hard to earn 6+ medals per game if you do your job as a DPS either. TL;DR version: Healers don't get nearly enough medals, and have to fight tooth and nail for any they get. You have to steal kills and step out of your role to get any more than 3 medals, unless you're a Battlemaster with all crit/surge gear and a surge relic and can achieve a 5k heal. This hinders progression on an extreme level; you're looking at 50 Valor per medal, so it's safe to say healers lose out on about 200 Valor per game. It also hinders your gear progression, because you're not getting as many comms to purchase gear (5 comms per medal, 20 per game). Other classes are too easy to achieve medals. Here is a picture to supplement this whole point. Notice how the tank and other DPS specs all got 6+ medals that were all their job to obtain, while the healer with almost 400k of healing is down with 5. The most important point, again, is that every single medal the tank/DPS specs have is their job to obtain. Two of the medals I achieved as a healer were not my job, and detracted from my role as a healer and my usefulness to the team. http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k191/rune2004/Medals.jpg Keep in mind, this is all if you do your job as a healer and don't try and steal people's kills and DPS for medals. That's not the role of a healer. If you do that, you're not doing your job. If you try and bring some "ur bad, get uther meddles" to the table, don't even bother posting. You're wrong. P.S. Don't get me started on MVP votes for healers on my server. I can be the only healer and have 350k+ healing, actually get objectives, heal other objective-goers, and get no MVP votes game after game. Edited February 5, 2012 by Eortotai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilintar Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 What about my static barrier? That doesn't give ANY stats towards getting a medal, and yet it's a major ability of the healing Sage/Sorcerer. What about stunning, CCing, and snaring people? That's also a major part of playing a healer. What about healing in one life? How this was an oversight is completely beyond me. Really? There's defense in one life, but not healing??? I agree about the stun/CC part, I'd add interrupts. There should be a crowd control medal for, say, 30 stuns/mezzes or a medal for 50 interrupts. These are quite critical parts of teamplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanistir Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you are pro, please go play an Operative/Scoundrel healer, and tell me how it goes for you, compared to your sage. Lvling one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantheros Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Epeen jerking thread, nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) I don't even consider 922k in healing to be that impressive, AE heals are a cheap trick. I am much more impressed with the level 24s that put up 200k in heals, all single target heals. Edited February 5, 2012 by Blasphemerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piethief Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I don't even consider 922k in healing to be that impressive, AE heals are a cheap trick. I am much more impressed with the level 24s that put up 200k in heals, all single target heals. I'm struggling to work out how's he's done it tbh. I'm a sorceror healer myself, and my top is about 600k on Voidstar where the enemy team ignored me. I can only imagine he was benefitting from the now fixed consular double AOE heal proc. As for saying AOEs are cheap, I completely disagree. They cost an immense amount of force to cast, and heal for relatively little. On top of that, PvP is so fluid that by the time you've cast your AOE, people have moved from the area, and you're left healing just one or two (in which case it would have been more efficent to cast more powerful, single targeted heals on both of them anyway). In most WZs, they're useless (here's looking at you Huttball and Alderaan) and they're only useful in limited circumstances in Voidstar when your team is clumped together. How often do you see more than 4 friendly players sticking around the same 10m area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCrow Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 please do the other things that get you medals. Pressing three buttons and targeting your own faction isn't skillful. haha good one... dpsers press 1 button and they call them skilful ^^ you apparently have no idea how healers life looks like during war zones.... constant ganking... no one help /defend you ... attacked by 2-3 guys you going down in 3 seconds chain stunned usually(yeaa resolve ftw). and all the time you have to watch noobs like you to defend them from dying...one clicker dpsers who just running randomly around like chickens attacking everything brainlessly instead making any contribution to team.apart from that healer also have to dps (cause of retarded medal system) in order to get some more medals than 3.... really when I see such comments I know why blizzard assumed that 90% of mmo population are idiots.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priakk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The most disturbing thing about this is definitely that no other healing class except for sage/sorcerer can come close to this amount of healing done. When they can, sure add more medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironzerg Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Wow, no wonder he got 900k healing. Looks like half the Empire team was tracer-spamming bounty huntards. I completely agree with the context of this threa! Nerf tracer missile! Problem solved. You'll never get 2 medals for doing 900k+ worth of healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I like how people keep bringing up hypothetical situations in which a healer should DPS. As if that someone justifies the current broken medal situation. In order for a healer to get 10 kills 25 kills and 75k dmg, these situations need to happen all the time. You just make up one particular scenario and then proceed to make a tremendous leap in logic that somehow suggests that a healer should be doing 75k dmg. 75k is a high amount of dmg especially for a healer as their dps output is smaller than dps classes, meaning it will take them even longer to achieve that medal, time they should be healing most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilintar Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 In order for a healer to get 10 kills 25 kills and 75k dmg, these situations need to happen all the time. You just make up one particular scenario and then proceed to make a tremendous leap in logic that somehow suggests that a healer should be doing 75k dmg. 75k is a high amount of dmg especially for a healer as their dps output is smaller than dps classes, meaning it will take them even longer to achieve that medal, time they should be healing most of the time. No it isn't. My typical stats in Voidstar (I'm healer spec) are about 100k damage and 250k healing. The situations I describe happen all the time. Only during middle stages of fights is pure healing your key option - at most other stages, you should be at least considering doing other things and reacting to how things develop. The DPS output for a healer isn't really that bad. What I lack is mostly (a) AOE damage (b) a simple DPS rotation. Instead of spamming TK throw, I have to cycle various attacks. However, since the basic spec for my healer is power/alacrity, I still deal quite decent damage overall. Sure, it does not mean that I should focus on doing damage, but then again it doesn't mean that "pocket healing" is the way to go. Most often the rotation of "heal / use 2 or 3 damaging abilities / get back to healing" is more useful to your team than pure healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 please do the other things that get you medals. Pressing three buttons and targeting your own faction isn't skillful. it takes more skill than you think it does to be a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdstephen Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you have both healing and damage skills at your disposal and you're only doing one of those, you're not being as effective as you could be. For example, a Powertech/Vanguard player, even if DPS specced and focused on doing DPS, should effectively be using taunts whenever given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsupra Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) I am all for giving healers more medals because at the end its them that permit us dps/tanks to have(repeatitive) 5-10 secs of more fun in pvp! BUT not one moment before they find a safe way to prevent from healers to "falsificate" their stats in a wz Edited February 6, 2012 by tsupra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirBos Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) There are 4 medals for tanking (Id say all easily doable every WZ (or corect me but friend has 4th one as soon as I have about 100k healing)) 4 healing medals (its not as easy to do 5k for every spec and 300k heal needs us not to be on the move whole game) 4 dmg medals (ok 5k dmg is chalange for most, but even as healer I have more aoe dmg skills than aoe healings (what I want to say is that I think that doing 300k dmg is easier than equal in healings, but thats my point of wiev and is spec dependent for sure) 4 medals that that are reachable for anyone w/o advantage (10, 25 kills/def points) and counts for everyone equaly 2 medals I rly dont know why they are in game (killing blow do every1 once is 2 or 3 mins in game - ok, maybe thats consolation prize) and assassin medal forcing ppl NOT to play team game What I rly love bout swtor is that healer actualy can dmg and kill someone in time not measured by glacial ages and since we use same stats as dmgers we can bite also (2,5k dmg medal, 75k dmg medal and still speaking about Death from Above on 1min CD (yeah Im BH healer)) My point is that if we do our best we can achive 4 medals for our spec 2 dmg same amount of universal medals as eveyone in WZ and killing blow thats not that bad. Still 2 medals (on avarage) under tanks (pls dont deny this) but still 2 medals (and again on avarage) ahead of dmgers that play for team whole game and not hunting assassin (let say there is not time to spare and they are not nerds who do it anyway) I dont say medal system doesnt need balance but use ALL the skills you have, kill ppl with low hp/low gear coz dmg that he doesnt is healing that you dont have to cast (and so its dmg prevented) and once your objective is to get thru the doors its more about killing enemies than proving that you can stand in front of them for VERY long time. Edited February 6, 2012 by sirBos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatAuc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Theres a few things that needs fixing with medals. Some classes can access multiple medals while others just a few. Also I like your suggestion of higher medals and those should award like 2 medals each since they are good achievements. Its kinda lame that you get an award for 1KB and 300k dmg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanistir Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm struggling to work out how's he's done it tbh. I'm a sorceror healer myself, and my top is about 600k on Voidstar where the enemy team ignored me. I can only imagine he was benefitting from the now fixed consular double AOE heal proc.? OP - I did it 1 day after they "fixed" the double salvation proc, same day as the original post. And my normal stats (going for medals) in voidstar are 600k+ healing and 75k+ damage (I basically abandon dmg after the 75k medal), in this match both rounds went the full length, I obviously was only damaging to knock people off doors, everyone was stacked and I wasn't sharing heals with any other healers so it was possible to get this high. Though I was being focused quite a bit by the imps, Mcclutch's 40k+ prot points are just from him guarding me, its only really possible to do this if you have guard unless the imps just dgaf about you healing everything in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheniox Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Pheniox/SWToR/Screenshot_2012-02-03_14_55_46_257430.jpg The simple fact you healed 900k damage means you were dropping your AoE heal, alot. And then spamming heals on very unfocused DPS. I had no trouble getting 650k healing, 100k damage done, and 8 medals, doing the same thing you did. The difference however, is I was trying to win, where you were just trying to be a high number. I normally don't respond to these style of bad players, but in your case, I will make an obvious exception. Yes, you healed alot. Congrats, NOBODY was attacking you. If we fall into our zero force heal rotation + AoE, I am sure each of us could heal that same ammount Oh, and this is as a PvE spec healer. None of this crap hybrid stuff. I was also locking down(or attempting to at least) the rebel healer who also broke 600k healing that match Edited February 6, 2012 by Pheniox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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