PvP Gear changes in 1.2 , let me get this straight...

[Pawe]

PvE gear gets progressively better to empower players to handle more challenging PvE encounters.

 

PvP gear should not get progressively better because there is no such thing as progressively more challenging PvP encounters. When you enter a warzone, you don't get to "choose" what difficulty you want. You don't get to pick Hard Mode or Nightmare Mode. There's no progression involved. It's a crap shoot, and you're rewarded for failing.

 

Using your own analogy, OP, giving PvPers progressively better gear for PvPing (with the current system) is not akin to normal PvE progression. It's akin to throwing a bunch of people with level 50 blues into Karagga's Palace on Nightmare Mode. Buen suelo.

 

Oh, and you get shiny loots even when you all faceplant at the first trash group repeatedly until you ragequit.

 

Neither side agrees, but I like this post so I'll quote it and talk about something different.

 

Anyone ever play Runescape back in the early 2000's. Their PvP was awesome. You go into the wilderness, and you can fight people based on your level difference. In the first part of the wilderness you could only fight people 1 or 2 levels above or below you, but the further you got the higher the difference (Up to over 20). There were incentives to go high into the wilderness, which made it tons of fun. Add to that loot on kill. All you kept were your 3 most expensive items on death, whoever killed you got the rest. That was a dinky little game with some awesome open world PvP mechanics.

 

Personally I think most of the people on these forums are lame. These PvP forums especially have been are "Nerf this" "Don't nerf that", "Level 50 battlegrounds are lame, I'm rerolling an alt" "We want to have an I win button". (The last two aren't what you are actually saying, but it's how you come off to a not insane person)

 

It would be nice if games actually put in real reasons to PvP and real reasons to try and stay alive. No games will now of days though, ever since WoW came out all PvP became in MMO's was another carrot on a stick to grind for more gear. Sure they get to keep subs that way, but it isn't the most fun way. Think of engaging reasons to PvP other than "Oh cr@p I need to que for warzones all day so I can get some PURPLES!!!"

[grey_fox_uk]

Neither side agrees, but I like this post so I'll quote it and talk about something different.

 

Anyone ever play Runescape back in the early 2000's. Their PvP was awesome. You go into the wilderness, and you can fight people based on your level difference. In the first part of the wilderness you could only fight people 1 or 2 levels above or below you, but the further you got the higher the difference (Up to over 20). There were incentives to go high into the wilderness, which made it tons of fun. Add to that loot on kill. All you kept were your 3 most expensive items on death, whoever killed you got the rest. That was a dinky little game with some awesome open world PvP mechanics.

 

Personally I think most of the people on these forums are lame. These PvP forums especially have been are "Nerf this" "Don't nerf that", "Level 50 battlegrounds are lame, I'm rerolling an alt" "We want to have an I win button". (The last two aren't what you are actually saying, but it's how you come off to a not insane person)

 

It would be nice if games actually put in real reasons to PvP and real reasons to try and stay alive. No games will now of days though, ever since WoW came out all PvP became in MMO's was another carrot on a stick to grind for more gear. Sure they get to keep subs that way, but it isn't the most fun way. Think of engaging reasons to PvP other than "Oh cr@p I need to que for warzones all day so I can get some PURPLES!!!"

 

You should look into Guild Wars 2's PvP system, I'm looking forward to it greatly. Though they of course have the "advantage" of not worrying about a subscription payment model.

[Guinden]

So basicly the fresh 50's can get their centurion gear faster(hurray good thing) but reducing the direct champ tokens? Are you out of your mind BW? after 39 bags i just got my first champ armor piece helmet. So far 6 implants, 6 relic and a lightsaber and now you gonna decrease the chance even more...

 

So fresh 50's will be facerolled by battlemasters and champ geared players untill they reach valor 60 (thats a long road), when they can get champ gear faster from BM bags, and here comes the worst part..

 

"Battlemaster gear tokens chance also reduced" This is absolutely ridiculous it's the best pvp gear at the moment, why decrease the chance now, there is no reason to do that none. It will increase the gap even more between the already BM geared and the not BM geared players.

[StealthStalker]

I think the players arguing for the uber gear are the actual carebears with a leaning toward PVE.

 

Real PVP is skill based.

 

Further along these lines I would love to see Warzones bracketed, 2-3 levels. PVP is my favorite part of the game, yet I know I will never be competitive with the very best, just like I would not be competitive in Major League baseball. I would keep Ilum a free for all though so there is some opportunity for large groups of people to play together in a more open environment.

 

Brackets mean rankings, and being the number one player on a server is much cooler than having the most uber gear.

 

I've always wondered if there will be a Solo type bracket/rating established. I was never really a fan of rated anything to be honest, but then I considered the Solo Queue rating system that League of Legends uses (and others? Not sure if it's commonly used elsewhere). The idea mildly interests me, and I'm really not a fan of BG's/scenarios at all (much less rated ones).

 

With that in mind, the only way I could really support such a system is if the rewards and such were only cosmetic, or visual in effect. eg: Titles, or certain particle effects for your character (a color crystal that mimics any you already have stat wise). A status symbol if you will, but nothing more.

[Jarfunkz]

Because pvp and pve are different. Whether someone hits 50 now, last week, or a year from now the dungeons will be the same. They will not scale up with gear. This means that what was a viable path when servers first launched will still be a viable path. But PVP? No. In a year from now our gear will be at least one full tier higher probably two. You expect fresh 50s to grind against that?

 

You are aware that there is less than 1% difference between battlemaster gear and champion gear... right?

[johnyangelo]

You guys seriously need reading comprehension. They didn't say they are nerfing pvp gear. They said they are trying to close the gap between newly dinged 50s and people in full battlemaster gear.

 

Atm when you ding level 50, the easiest pvp gear to get is champion gear (not the centurion). In the latest patch notes 1.1.2 they said they are changing the bag drops so more commendations drop i.e. newly dinged 50s with get centurion gear faster with more commendations from bags (less luck in getting your first set of pvp gear) while they will also decrease the drop rate of champion gear.

 

What this means basically is that Centurion gear will be first set many pvpers get now, while getting some random pieces of champion. Then when they get rank 60, they will be opening BM bags and getting champ commendations so will be able to finish off that set, while getting random BM pieces.

 

The system at the moment is flawed in that centurion gear is actually harder to get than champion pieces. This patch looks like it will rectify that, allowing new 50s to get their first pvp set faster without the random factor.

 

This is exactly my thoughts.

 

Fresh 50 will get centurion set way faster and fighting battlemasters with centurion set is better than have two champ items and one cent due to present system.

[Tooswifty]

It's MY gear and I want it NOW

 

BJ Bentworth can help, just start a thread on the forums and we'll get your gear for you now.

[Bartes]

Read The 1.1.2 Patch Notes.

 

The number of commendations in each bag is being "greatly" increased.

 

The chances of getting a "repairable" piece of gear is being slightly reduced.

 

Nowhere do they say the stats are being adjusted.

 

let me highlight it for you

 

It is our intention to gradually, over multiple patches, reduce the impact of situational consumables on endgame combat resolution and shift the factors which determine the outcome of combat more towards personal skill. As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

if this isn't about nerfing stats on PvP gear then what is it about? Nerfing expertise stat only? I don't believe it is the only thing. If they nerf both expertise AND stats then ANY PvEer with t1-t2 FP gear will wipe the floor with experienced PvPer just because they will have more damaging/survability stats that PvPers loose to gain Expertise stat.

[Pawe]

You should look into Guild Wars 2's PvP system, I'm looking forward to it greatly. Though they of course have the "advantage" of not worrying about a subscription payment model.

 

I haven't read too much into guild wars, but I think I might have to disagree with you. I know Guild Wars was more of a PvP based game, but it was mostly all instanced if I remember correctly. (I only played for about 2 months, may be wrong) From reading their website I didn't see any mention of open world PvP, but saw instanced PvP mentioned 3 times.

 

I prefer to PvP, but not just for the sake of PvP. I like to play a game, and have PvP round it out and add excitement to it. I'm not a fan of "Que, wait here, attack here, repeat". That is why early MMO open world PvP was great. You never wanted to die because you would actually lose something. You never knew exactly when attacks would come.

 

In warzones if I get outnumberd I just don't care to fight back. If I die quicker, I can respawn quicker and get back to the objective faster. PvP shouldn't make one feel like that. I should want to fight to the last breath.

 

If I did miss info about Guild Wars 2's PvP I'd love to see it, but that looks like more of the same ol' stuff to me.

[Pawe]

It's MY gear and I want it NOW

 

BJ Bentworth can help, just start a thread on the forums and we'll get your gear for you now.

 

Dude that just wins! Those are the most awful (and awesome) commercials.

[kijthae]

They want people do more pve but most people playing swtor and came from other mmo's are not interested in pve.They come to swtor for a better balanced pvp. There are still players interested in pve but they are in minority. BW is favoring minority as they do same while balancing classes. Edited February 2, 2012 by kijthae

[grey_fox_uk]

I haven't read too much into guild wars, but I think I might have to disagree with you. I know Guild Wars was more of a PvP based game, but it was mostly all instanced if I remember correctly. (I only played for about 2 months, may be wrong) From reading their website I didn't see any mention of open world PvP, but saw instanced PvP mentioned 3 times.

 

I prefer to PvP, but not just for the sake of PvP. I like to play a game, and have PvP round it out and add excitement to it. I'm not a fan of "Que, wait here, attack here, repeat". That is why early MMO open world PvP was great. You never wanted to die because you would actually lose something. You never knew exactly when attacks would come.

 

In warzones if I get outnumberd I just don't care to fight back. If I die quicker, I can respawn quicker and get back to the objective faster. PvP shouldn't make one feel like that. I should want to fight to the last breath.

 

If I did miss info about Guild Wars 2's PvP I'd love to see it, but that looks like more of the same ol' stuff to me.

 

Actually, there is a very specific type of world PvP in GW2, that would appeal to you I think. Try a google search for "Guild Wars 2 World vs World" there's an entry on the official GW2 wiki about it. Essentially it's a PvP zone that dynamically rewards players for large scale, free-form PvP. Think Ilum (or Wintergrasp from WoW), but done right.

 

Who knows if it will actually do what they advertise, but my hopes are high.

Edited February 2, 2012 by grey_fox_uk

[Daeromas]

They want people do more pve but most people playing swtor and came from other mmo's are not interested in pve.They come to swtor for a better balanced pvp. There are still players interested in pve but they are in minority. BW is favoring minority as they do same while balancing classes.

 

oh yea? let me see a link of how you know this lulz.

[Daeromas]

Actually, there is a very specific type of world PvP in GW2, that would appeal to you I think. Try a google search for "Guild Wars 2 World vs World" there's an entry on the official GW2 wiki about it. Essentially it's a PvP zone that dynamically rewards players for large scale, free-form PvP. Think Ilum (or Wintergrasp from WoW), but done right.

 

Who knows if it will actually do what they advertise, but my hopes are high.

 

GW2 will suck.

[grey_fox_uk]

GW2 will suck.

 

A well-thought and keenly researched response sir, you've changed my outlook on Guild Wars forever...

[BoDiE]

The exact statement was this :

 

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

It does mention that the "power difference" will be reduced. That they feel the difference is "too high".

 

Like I stated before, their is a "power difference" in new PVE player's effectiveness and those with gear. Why shouldn't their be a "power difference" for the parallel PVP environment.

I only read they are adjusting bag drop rates. You trolling?

Edited February 2, 2012 by BoDiE

[Daeromas]

A well-thought and keenly researched response sir, you've changed my outlook on Guild Wars forever...

 

you're welcome, I try and help ppl when and where I can. In this case another noob talking about guild wars when it has nothing to do with the thread at all

[Daeromas]

this is how it starts, pve'ers ruining pvp as usual.

 

next thing will be getting pvp gear through pve, and it will be easier, mark my words. lol

[dannythefool]

I only read they are adjusting bag drop rates. You trolling?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

 

But the statement could very well refer to what's in the patch notes. That change would reduce the difference between new 50ies and BM geared ones because at least the first tier (Centurion) would be easier to get.

[Tooswifty]

let me highlight it for you

 

 

 

if this isn't about nerfing stats on PvP gear then what is it about? Nerfing expertise stat only? I don't believe it is the only thing. If they nerf both expertise AND stats then ANY PvEer with t1-t2 FP gear will wipe the floor with experienced PvPer just because they will have more damaging/survability stats that PvPers loose to gain Expertise stat.

 

 

pssst. Don't post the truth. It hurts and others belive that is just trolling.

[Tooswifty]

this is how it starts, pve'ers ruining pvp as usual.

 

next thing will be getting pvp gear through pve, and it will be easier, mark my words. lol

 

Already there with the boxes in ilum. 4 hours in there and not 1 red name came up on the screen.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tooswifty

[Papasan]

guess this means it will be harder to get BM tokens as well? and not only champ item in the champ bags?

[Jaccari]

The easiest and best way to Alleviate this problem is not to nerf the Champion bags, and also not to nerf the Battlemaster equipment. The best way is to allow Synthweaving, Cybertech, Artifice etc. to produce PvP Blues and or Purples to get them on track and less steamrollable to the 50 WZ areas.

[Jarfunkz]

The easiest and best way to Alleviate this problem is not to nerf the Champion bags, and also not to nerf the Battlemaster equipment. The best way is to allow Synthweaving, Cybertech, Artifice etc. to produce PvP Blues and or Purples to get them on track and less steamrollable to the 50 WZ areas.

 

Give my your email... If I ever want to make an mmo, I got a job for you... So simple, yet so hard...

[Daeromas]

Already there with the boxes in ilum. 4 hours in there and not 1 red name came up on the screen.

 

that's sad.

 

the Ajunta Pall server that i'm on is the only one I saw tonight that was "heavy" and went to "very heavy". Usually always find an ops and ppl to kill. but that's for another thread.

 

4 hours there and no pvp for a planet made for it is simply terrible though.