PvP Gear changes in 1.2 , let me get this straight...

[VellyX]

Having pvp gear being overly amazing for people who started the game earlier than other players. makes it much harder for those other players to get that equipment, and requiring them more time and effort to get to the point where they can actually compete.

 

That's not true, the problem doesn't lie in the gear. His argument basically is against the reduction of PvP bonuses in PvP gear. These bonuses are what you gain by doing PvP and they are not impossible to get, they just take time and actual effort. The gear does not ensure a win, a match still depends on the players of each team. Seasoned players are good because they know how to win, the gear gives them only a small bonus to gain a mechanical advantage, and that is fine as long as they are matched up with people who have similar experience. The problem lies in the matchmaking system. They already made the brackets, now they need to match players with other players close to their valor rank, and not just anyone who que'd. The problem is that you get players who CAN wear the gear get matched up with players who can not.

[heikaze]

The problem in your logic is, that you consider only good pvpers tho, who have TIME to GRIND their gear. I do not consider GRIND = SKILL. So forgive my ignorance.

 

With that said, I do not know why you pick on me, when I only said, that time spend is questionable value, because of all those afkers around.

 

So you expect people who have played for 2-3month already down the road to have no advantages to someone who just ding 50 few days ago?

 

Its only a "grind" to you because is it because all you care about is gears? To other players, its not so much as a "grind" because we are having fun while pvping. And gearing up in the process.

 

You should get your mentality checked on how you view joing a warzone. Is it to grind? Or is it to have fun while getting rewards for the effort your putting in?

[Nessirin]

PvE players don't have to go through Nightmare mode difficulty when they hit level 50 to get decent gear for pve.

 

 

PvP players have to fight fully geared out battlemasters when they hit level 50 to get decent gear for pvp.

 

 

Your logic is flawed.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Nessirin

[xBuzz]

You guys seriously need reading comprehension. They didn't say they are nerfing pvp gear. They said they are trying to close the gap between newly dinged 50s and people in full battlemaster gear.

 

Atm when you ding level 50, the easiest pvp gear to get is champion gear (not the centurion). In the latest patch notes 1.1.2 they said they are changing the bag drops so more commendations drop i.e. newly dinged 50s with get centurion gear faster with more commendations from bags (less luck in getting your first set of pvp gear) while they will also decrease the drop rate of champion gear.

 

What this means basically is that Centurion gear will be first set many pvpers get now, while getting some random pieces of champion. Then when they get rank 60, they will be opening BM bags and getting champ commendations so will be able to finish off that set, while getting random BM pieces.

 

The system at the moment is flawed in that centurion gear is actually harder to get than champion pieces. This patch looks like it will rectify that, allowing new 50s to get their first pvp set faster without the random factor.

Edited February 2, 2012 by xBuzz

[diogolp]

Because PVP is not PVE. The linear gear progression model is designed for PVE---PVP progression should be lateral, not linear, and the major determiner of PVP success should always be skill. Not gear, skill. Skill individually, skill at teamwork. Go play an FPS sometime and you'll see what I mean. Trying to apply the linear gear progression model to PVP that works so well for PVE leads to gear being the major determiner of PVP victories, such as in RIFT. And we all know how fun that is.

 

Look, I know the impulse a lot of MMO PVPers feel, all too well: "I had to slog through this horrible experience, and by God everyone else should as well (now that I'm geared and dominating.)"

 

My friend, that is not PVP. That is called hazing.

 

BW is making the right call here. Sorry you're being a wuss about it.

 

 

But that is not the issue that people are complaining about. The issue that they are complaining about is that a nerf to pvp gear will make pve gear imbalanced. So instead of getting rolled by the people who got battlemaster, they will get rolled by people in rakata gear.

 

This is already true for some classes. For example, for mercs, pve 2 piece set bonus > pvp 2 piece set bonus.

 

So the issue isn't that people want to maintain their gear imbalances in their favor. They just don't want the gear imbalance to go towards pvers.

[SeanPoe]

It's not rocket science how they need to do fix this. Double the current value of expertise and then implement a very cheap, easy to obtain started set for new level 50's. For example, make a pvp bag that you can purchase at level 40 and up for 70wz commendations, that has 100% chance to per bag to drop a token for a piece of the level 50 starter gear. That way, PvP gear is by far the best gear for pvp (for all classes) and new level 50's actually have a chance. I'm saying make it so 600 expertise is like 30% damage reduction, 30% damage increases, and 15% healing boost (since damage and damage reduction cancel each-other out, healing needs to be boosted less). The starter set should also have the same expertise as full BM gear with the only difference being the other stats. Since so much of the item budget is in expertise, the gear wouldn't be only slightly better than level 50 quest greens in pve.

[Dystopic]

So this post is in regards to : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

 

 

If I understand correctly: Pve'rs go through Operations/Hard modes in order to get gear. They do this in order to be able to undertake harder operations/hard modes and ultimately nightmare mode. They have an incentive to gear up in order to more adequately handle PVE encounters.

 

So according to logic. Pvp players do their best to obtain gear in order to more adequately handle PvP encounters.

 

So an incoming level 50 who intends to PVE most also catch up to current level 50 players with adequate PVE gear, in order to be as effective.

 

Why should incoming PvP players be treated any differently?

 

 

Because pvp and pve are different. Whether someone hits 50 now, last week, or a year from now the dungeons will be the same. They will not scale up with gear. This means that what was a viable path when servers first launched will still be a viable path. But PVP? No. In a year from now our gear will be at least one full tier higher probably two. You expect fresh 50s to grind against that?

[Dalnar]

So you expect people who have played for 2-3month already down the road to have no advantages to someone who just ding 50 few days ago?

 

Its only a "grind" to you because is it because all you care about is gears? To other players, its not so much as a "grind" because we are having fun while pvping. And gearing up in the process.

 

You should get your mentality checked on how you view joing a warzone. Is it to grind? Or is it to have fun while getting rewards for the effort your putting in?

 

Well, doing dailies to get gear is Grind, and I do not participate in it anymore. I made one 50, got gear..and rerolled alts which I play in lower brackets just for fun. So yes, I don't care about gear nor so called top-grinded, I mean top-skilled pvp.

 

Seriously, I see no reason why people defend those afkers with valor and gear so much.

[heikaze]

Noone was talking about nerfing pvp gear. just that they feel starting 50 have hard time against seasoned 50. So they will mostly likely add crafted 50 gear with some expertise, because it was in a crafting related post anyway. And that's not bad thing, considering how end game crafting sucks.

 

Im all for it if its like that. But if they are nerfing the drop rates, im 100 percent against it. The game is fun while getting the battlemasters. I feel its right at the point where it doesn't feel like a grind, but keeps me wanting to que to see my next Champion gear.

 

If chances are lowererd, how will that even bridge fresh 50's to those that already have Champion gears already? Seems like it will be even harder for fresh 50's to obtain champion gear. Makes no sense.

[searingskirso]

i really hop you guys are right, i ground a lot of war-zones before ilum got the update, i was valor rank 40 with only 2 pieces of armor as i was saving my marks to get my 4 set bonus, ive had pretty bad luck with my bags(buying the wrong helm at a time when the item restore is seemingly ignoring my tickets didn't help). but i pushed forward, using a pve main hand weapon until valor rank 56, then lightning struck, i got my main hand, not needing my cent marks for the lower grade light saber i got a few cent pieces. i was stoked. after 70ish bags i finall got the item i wanted.

 

if they added craftable pvp items that would be sick, being able to have a crafted set for a guild mate when they hit 50 would be the cats meow, and also wouldnt call for a curent pvp item nerf.

[Seriasx]

So you expect people who have played for 2-3month already down the road to have no advantages to someone who just ding 50 few days ago?

 

Its only a "grind" to you because is it because all you care about is gears? To other players, its not so much as a "grind" because we are having fun while pvping. And gearing up in the process.

 

You should get your mentality checked on how you view joing a warzone. Is it to grind? Or is it to have fun while getting rewards for the effort your putting in?

 

 

Cool, then just remove the gear altogether sp we can have fun pvping.

[RolyartNala]

But that is not the issue that people are complaining about. The issue that they are complaining about is that a nerf to pvp gear will make pve gear imbalanced. So instead of getting rolled by the people who got battlemaster, they will get rolled by people in rakata gear.

 

This is already true for some classes. For example, for mercs, pve 2 piece set bonus > pvp 2 piece set bonus.

 

So the issue isn't that people want to maintain their gear imbalances in their favor. They just don't want the gear imbalance to go towards pvers.

That's valid. Let's withhold judgment until we see how they intend to close the gear gap. I have a feeling that BW is not dumb enough to create the situation you are describing.

[VellyX]

You guys seriously need reading comprehension. They didn't say they are nerfing pvp gear. They said they are trying to close the gap between newly dinged 50s and people in full battlemaster gear.

 

You need to learn how to read, this is for 1.2 patch notes, not 1.1.2.

[heikaze]

Well, doing dailies to get gear is Grind, and I do not participate in it anymore. I made one 50, got gear..and rerolled alts which I play in lower brackets just for fun. So yes, I don't care about gear nor so called top-grinded, I mean top-skilled pvp.

 

Seriously, I see no reason why people defend those afkers with valor and gear so much.

 

No one is defending afkers, you shouldn't put words in other mouth just to justify what you are saying. It makes you look a like a troll.

 

Its all good if you do not want to play at higher level PvP, with your "geared" 50. Since you do not care about gear progression, that doesn't mean other people don't. MMOs is all about gear progression.

 

No one here is to listen to you whine // QQ about what you feel is not right. "I don't like or want something so YOU shouldn't either."

 

If you have valid solution and imputs then sure post it. But keep the crying to yourself.

[Dalnar]

You need to learn how to read, this is for 1.2 patch notes, not 1.1.2.

 

Look who is talking..it was in post "Crafting Profession Changes in patch 1.1.2". SO it is most likely crafting related...so no nerfs for pvp gear.

[Krionic]

Cool, then just remove the gear altogether sp we can have fun pvping.

 

they made a game for that, its called call of duty.

[JasonTheImpaler]

That's not true, the problem doesn't lie in the gear. His argument basically is against the reduction of PvP bonuses in PvP gear. These bonuses are what you gain by doing PvP and they are not impossible to get, they just take time and actual effort. The gear does not ensure a win, a match still depends on the players of each team. Seasoned players are good because they know how to win, the gear gives them only a small bonus to gain a mechanical advantage, and that is fine as long as they are matched up with people who have similar experience. The problem lies in the matchmaking system. They already made the brackets, now they need to match players with other players close to their valor rank, and not just anyone who que'd. The problem is that you get players who CAN wear the gear get matched up with players who can not.

 

Yes what you say is true, I am just trying to say that after a majority of other players got geared up before you just because they tried to get there first, making it harder for everyone else to get it. Yes skill helps a lot if your whole team has it, but not if the other team is fully geared and most likely already seasoned (assuming they didn't just sit through WZ's the whole grind)

[shazariahl]

That "put time and effort" argument is lovely, except for the armies of bots who afked their way up basically, or the swarms of zergs that participated in so called "Ilum fiasco".

 

I've been in plenty of PvE groups where individuals didn't pull their weight. They were watching TV, talking on the phone, afk half the time, etc, and still got gear. To me, that's no different than people getting PvP gear they didn't deserve on Ilum.

 

Fact remains, there are many players (both PvP and PvE alike) who DIDN'T cheat or bot their way to glory, and asuming that everyone who has nice gear must have cheated for it is just flat out wrong. Many players have put in a ton of time and effort into PvP, and those players should be rewarded for those efforts.

 

Hopefully it will be like some here have suggested, and the drop rates will be increased, or mods with expertise will be made available, so people new to PvP will be able to gear up better, rather than nerfing the gear already belonging to PvPers who've taken the time and effort to earn that gear.

[Dalnar]

No one is defending afkers, you shouldn't put words in other mouth just to justify what you are saying. It makes you look a like a troll.

 

Its all good if you do not want to play at higher level PvP, with your "geared" 50. Since you do not care about gear progression, that doesn't mean other people don't. MMOs is all about gear progression.

 

No one here is to listen to you whine // QQ about what you feel is not right. "I don't like or want something so YOU shouldn't either."

 

If you have valid solution and imputs then sure post it. But keep the crying to yourself.

 

So, my opinion is invalid, while only yours is valid ? I'm so sorry we do not agree with each other. But that's the life..you know, the stuff outside games. Do not expect to agree with you.

 

My original post was about afkers of sort, and it got twisted by another troll and you started to reply half through only and cut sentences out of the context.

 

So please...

 

Simply put, I feel pvp should be about fun and skill, not about grind. You feel pvp should be about effort and progress (sweet words for grind). Do you see me insulting you?

Edited February 2, 2012 by Dalnar

[Bartes]

This is a dangerous route to take. PvE gear is already better in PvP for certain classes and this might cause extreme pve/pvp balance issues.

 

this this and this!

[Xenthum]

they made a game for that, its called call of duty.

 

Whoa, I didn't realize the mechanics, setting, and playstyle of an MMORPG were the same as a first person shooter!

I've been missing out!

[heikaze]

Cool, then just remove the gear altogether sp we can have fun pvping.

 

Again people need to stop with the selective reading, its annoying and just makes you look dumb.

 

"To other players, its not so much as a "grind" because we are having fun while pvping. And gearing up in the process."

 

You clearly missed gearing up in the process, if you just remove gear all together. Why not just leave everyone at level 1 and just call it a game while we at it. Then we can have fun with our level 1 duels and pvp. /sarcasim (cus you might just miss it with your selective reading skills)

[Tooswifty]

being a fresh 50 in pvp, you can jump straight into the mid lvl champ pvp gear w/o any valor. how can any new 50 in pvp be ************? If they want to fix obtaining pvp gear for brand new 50s or pvpers, fix the champ gear to have a valor level of 50 as well.

 

Dont think you can just go straight to the mid lvl raid/dungeon gear as a 50. I dont know because I dont pve. I pvp'd 34 of the 50 levels, so I did earn my gear. Now the people who want to try out pvp are getting smashed. I'm not crying for you. I was in the 10-50s pvp from the get go.

 

Honestly, if you want some hand outs, I heard there is a panda game that gives free loot on tuesdays. Working to achieve gear is not bad. Something to help, get a premade. But then again, if you are crying over gear, you'd probally want to segregate premades as well.

 

this isnt burger king, no one gets what they want your way, right away in a video game.

 

If thats too harsh for you, there is always the option to step away from the keyboard, unplug the computer and actually go outside, read a book or spend time with your family.

 

Or Bioware can just give every 50 full top raid and pvp gear as soon as they hit 50. No work at all required. I can sit in gen LFG some end game raid, I'm geared. I have no idea how to pve, but i has the gears to do it.

[Hoofnmouth]

no....they're not nerfing the pvp gear, they're upping the drop rates on bag tokens allowing fresh 50's to get the centurion set in basically a few days of solid pvp.

 

Here is a quote from the post that started this.

 

"we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high"

 

I tried not to take this out of context... If the above is what they plan on doing, then why grind for gear. The Battlemaster gear takes time to get as it should. Getting there "SHOULD" teach you your class. I'm currently in that grind process and belive it should be that way. As for all the fail PVPers that hate it when a new 50 joins the WZ and you proceed to mouth off telling him to leave and die... the above is what you get for that. All the work you put into getting your gear will be gone.

[kenbenobi]

So this post is in regards to : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

Essentially half way though the post it is stated that pvp gear will be reduced in effectiveness to reduce the gap between incoming 50 pvpers and current 50 pvpers with some amount of gear.

 

Now let me get this straight...

 

If I understand correctly: Pve'rs go through Operations/Hard modes in order to get gear. They do this in order to be able to undertake harder operations/hard modes and ultimately nightmare mode. They have an incentive to gear up in order to more adequately handle PVE encounters.

 

So according to logic. Pvp players do their best to obtain gear in order to more adequately handle PvP encounters.

 

So an incoming level 50 who intends to PVE most also catch up to current level 50 players with adequate PVE gear, in order to be as effective.

 

Why should incoming PvP players be treated any differently?

 

Time and effort rewards PVE players with gear. This gear sets them from the rest of the community in terms of their effectiveness in handling PVE environments.

 

This same effort rewards PVP players. The time and effort you put in to the game should yield moderate results. Parallel and equal to the rewards that a PVE player gets for their perseverance.

 

If PvP gear is , well for lack of a better word "standardized" to a certain extent. What is there to differentiate a player who puts in time and effort in order to be more effective than general community at what he or she enjoys, which is success to a certain extent in a pvp environment.

 

Before you start flaming me, declaring that I am an elitist, I am only valor rank 36. And I am not severely geared, I am currently in a mix of centurion/champion gear with many, many holes in it. I am not trying to declare that people with gear should dominate those without it. But I think that degrading those who have put time and effort into obtaining their gear should not be penalized for trying to do well.

 

This is not just a PVP game. Order to get better gear you may want to get gear from PVE activities. So according to logic this is mainly learn to play issue.