Official: Over 1.7 million active subs, 2 + mil sold

[sheisty]

Hey Fanboy...here it is again: We wanted the game to succeed.

 

 

Its not the entire subset of negative posters Im talking about, its the certain individuals which truly hate this game and want it to fail miserably. to come back here and tell us all how they were right and we were all wrong. Dont tell me that all of the haters here just want the game to improve, because that is blatantly false. There are haters here that want nothing but fail for Bioware/EA as a whole, dont ask me why, because again, I have no idea why you would want any game company to fail, even if you do not like their products.

 

Those are the haters im talking about. They exist on all game forums, not just here.

[wilsonstone]

Yea on that. Prepare yourself for an ugly ugly launch with TSW. Funcom has a terrible track record for bad bad launches. Look at both AO and AOC. now in their defense they did keep both games running and turned both into very good games but trust me if you think this game is bad at launch then skip TSW for 6 months and save yourself a lot of frustration. Funcom is much worse then Bioware when it comes to launches.

 

Hell yeah on that. I went through the AoC launch. But I must be different from others that post in MMO forums. When I found the launch of AoC bad and I wasn't enjoying the game (mostly cuz of bugs and really really bad lag) I fropped my sub, sent a message to Customer Service explaining what I thought was wrong with the game and left. I didn't have the need to go to the forums while I could still post to whine out loud and tell everyone else how the game would fail.

 

Whats funny is every MMO after this one will go through the same stuff. People will for whatever reason not like GW and their posts in that forum will be just like the ones in this forum. It doesn't matter if GW2 is great or not....there will be haters and they'll probably turn those future forums into a quagmire.

[Aleryan]

Learn to Read financial reports.

 

Oh, not this crap again. L2read yourself, the numbers were specifically referenced at over one month from release. Dec 21 to Dec 31 is not over a month from release.

 

You fail.

[FrankyBoots]

Heh yea I'm gonna give that one about six months as well. I learned my lesson from the AOC launch.

 

The AOC launch was completely horrible, no doubt. AO was a nightmare. The problem, with AOC, however, is that AO recovered, rebuilt, and then turned into one helluva game. AOC never recovered, and ended up completely failing.

 

I was banking on AOC recovering as AO did, but that didn't happen. Now, like you guys, I'm not touching FC with a 20 foot pole until it proves TSW is a winner. That's assuming, of course, that I'm still not loving this game, which I most definitely am. Assuming that's the case, I plan, right now at least, on staying here.

[Riotus]

People still to this day play Ultima Online..... my friend has an active sub and refuses to play any other mmo.... UO never had more than 2 million subs even during its peak.

 

for this reason alone, WOW will never shut its servers down.... not until the internet is gone for good.

 

Therefore, there will never be a wow killer.

[knightblaster]

 

Whats funny is every MMO after this one will go through the same stuff. People will for whatever reason not like GW and their posts in that forum will be just like the ones in this forum. It doesn't matter if GW2 is great or not....there will be haters and they'll probably turn those future forums into a quagmire.

 

They don't have forums, and likely will not at launch, either, just like GW1. Smart move, imo.

[Scar]

Its absurd to think those numbers are fudged. I mean it does happen but its not common.

 

Yea SWTOR had a great launch and everyone upset with the game needs to accept that just because they don't like it doesn't mean its failing. With that said there ARE valid complaints about this game and Rift did very well in the first few months as well. A lot can still change.

Yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but on this level, and on this grandstanding of a stage? And you know why I don't think it happens that much on this level? Because you have an entire government agency trying to justify their existence in this economy after the Enron, and banking scandal. Companies would surely lie if no one was watching. Problem is, there is someone watching: especially companies this large.

 

As for FunCom statements in other thread: Yeah, I was there for AO launch. And between that and WWIIO, I have to chuckle at people when they talk about this, or WoW, or just about anyone else having a bad launch. Those two were just disastrous on every level. AOC was a summer's day in the park compared to AO. So maybe they are getting better?

[sheisty]

People still to this day play Ultima Online..... my friend has an active sub and refuses to play any other mmo.... UO never had more than 2 million subs even during its peak.

 

for this reason alone, WOW will never shut its servers down.... not until the internet is gone for good.

 

Therefore, there will never be a wow killer.

 

Umm, for one UO never saw even 400K subs. Second, by implying a game killer, does not mean the game shuts down. Just like EQ was the UO killer, and WoW was the EQ killer, its not in the litteral sense, but both of those deaths, meant drastic decrease in subscriber base when the new game came out.

[Selaik]

Hey Fanboy, get it through your thick skull we dont hate the game. Obviously we wanted the game to be a success. Dont read what you want read what we type.

 

here it is again: We wanted the game to succeed.

 

That is why we paid for it to get Early Access, why we did beta testing, why we paid to buy the game and why we paid a month after that.

 

We did all that in hope that we would see a nice and fun game and hoped we would stay playing and paying as well.

 

Reason most people bother spamming buttons over and over typing the same complaints about the game its cause we didnt care?

 

Its like you do everything for your son to go to school and study with him and teach him manners and pay tutors and spend time with him when he is young and at the end he comes out to be a total jerk thats just sad

 

Yea your defiantly not the type of poster that i have a issue with , I my self rate the game 7.5/10 , but you have to admit there are posters who just have an unnatural hate for the game and are juts belligerent in attacking the game , there vitriol is beyond just having some issues with the game its personal.

 

I have no issue with ligament complaints shoot nothing is perfect , but there something else going on here with some poster IMHO..........

[mezlabor]

Yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but on this level, and on this grandstanding of a stage? And you know why I don't think it happens that much on this level? Because you have an entire government agency trying to justify their existence in this economy after the Enron, and banking scandal. Companies would surely lie if no one was watching. Problem is, there is someone watching: especially companies this large.

 

As for FunCom statements in other thread: Yeah, I was there for AO launch. And between that and WWIIO, I have to chuckle at people when they talk about this, or WoW, or just about anyone else having a bad launch. Those two were just disastrous on every level. AOC was a summer's day in the park compared to AO. So maybe they are getting better?

 

I wasn't there for AO's launch but if AOC was a step up then there really is little hope for TSW launch LOL. AO must have been really really bad. Ill give it to Funcom tho., They are persistent and they really turn their games into something. Both games improved dramatically after launch.

 

And yea I seriously doubt the numbers were fudged here. Thats just ridiculous as an investor myself Im pretty familiar with earnings reports and things like SEC filing practices.

[Scar]

They don't have forums, and likely will not at launch, either, just like GW1. Smart move, imo.

 

Agreed. Even Rob Pardo said that if he had to do it all over again he wouldn't have a public forum.

[Stormnut]

300,000 missing subscriptions is about an average revenue loss of about $4,197,000.00. This assumes an equal spread of the 1 month, 3 month, and 6 month plans (which is an average of $13.99 per month per RGU).

 

If I was losing out on 4.1 million dollars a month I would be on someone *** trying to figure out WHY we are losing that revenue.

 

Normal MMO retention rate after the 1st month is 50%. No source just seen it posted on several different game forums.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Sireene
reply to edited post

[Scar]

I wasn't there for AO's launch but if AOC was a step up then there really is little hope for TSW launch LOL. AO must have been really really bad. Ill give it to Funcom tho., They are persistent and they really turn their games into something. Both games improved dramatically after launch.

 

And yea I seriously doubt the numbers were fudged here. Thats just ridiculous as an investor myself Im pretty familiar with earnings reports and things like SEC filing practices.

 

AO was a nightmare. CC server down, or when the info did go through, you could get multiple charging. Servers constantly (no hyperbole) crashing. Login server crashing, or backed up for hours. Zones not able to handle rendering of the needed objects. FPS crawl to stop issues no matter the rig. Just brutal. This went on for days upon days.

 

So yeah, AOC was a step in the right direction. HAH!

[sheisty]

Yea your defiantly not the type of poster that i have a issue with , I my self rate the game 7.5/10 , but you have to admit there are posters who just have an unnatural hate for the game and are juts belligerent in attacking the game , there vitriol is beyond just having some issues with the game its personal.

 

I have no issue with ligament complaints shoot nothing is perfect , but there something else going on here with some poster IMHO..........

 

Exactly, well said.

 

I too have no problem with voicing concerns, or wanting something to be added to the game because you deem it not playable without it. All that is fine, but like you said, there are some that just take it to the extreme, and are no longer complaining but outright hating, and not just the game but the whole company as a while. Especially a game company which gave us countless hours of enjoyment over tons of different titles like Mass Effect, SW, Baldurs Gate, Dragin Age...etc.

[sheisty]

AO was a nightmare. CC server down, or when the info did go through, you could get multiple charging. Servers constantly (no hyperbole) crashing. Login server crashing, or backed up for hours. Zones not able to handle rendering of the needed objects. FPS crawl to stop issues no matter the rig. Just brutal. This went on for days upon days.

 

So yeah, AOC was a step in the right direction. HAH!

 

I really do not think that AoC had a bad launch, that was not the problem in that game, IMHO. the game was just unfinished. You hit Lv 20 you saw unfinished, then you hit Lv30 and saw even more unfinished...and so on.

 

But yeah, I remember AO launch, that was truly unplayable. For weeks on end.

[Valeena]

It's good to finally see the numbers. Hopefully Bioware will take this as a good sign and will push even harder for a long-term success. Thanks for posting this info, it's always good to see something positive on these forums (even if some of these replies are not).

[Aleryan]

Wow.. 1.7m!!

 

That's like.... 1/10th of WoW's subs...

 

WoW has 17 million subs? Thats pretty funny since Cataclysm sold 3 million copies worldwide.

[Jamus_Divinus]

WoW has 17 million subs? Thats pretty funny since Cataclysm sold 3 million copies worldwide.

 

WoW has around 4mil subs in the NA/EU market. The rest are in China/Korea.

 

TOR isn't currently pandaring to those markets (pardon the pun) so a bit silly of that guy to compare WoW's 10mil (4+6mil) to TOR's strictly western subs.

 

Now if the guy wants to compare WoW's 4mil and TOR's 1.7mil....

Edited February 2, 2012 by Jamus_Divinus

[Aerevan]

WoW has 17 million subs? Thats pretty funny since Cataclysm sold 3 million copies worldwide.

At max WoW had 12 million subs. Probably a lot of gold farmers as well though.

 

It'll be interesting to see if they're going to keep this number of subs. I'm not wholly convinced. Some servers are feeling 'dead'. That either means they're player starved, that the server's can contain too little players or that they're dying. In any case, BioWare needs to pick up on this. I had to give up on a level 44 Sniper because doing multiplayer content was hard to find (read: there just weren't any players at prime time). I'm sure it's different on a lot of the other servers, but some of these servers are just not doing 'right' to the 'massive multiplayer' element of the MMORPG genre.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Aerevan

[Kthx]

300,000 missing subscriptions is about an average revenue loss of about $4,197,000.00. This assumes an equal spread of the 1 month, 3 month, and 6 month plans (which is an average of $13.99 per month per RGU).

 

If I was losing out on 4.1 million dollars a month I would be on someone a** trying to figure out WHY we are losing that revenue.

 

By your own logic, the remaining 1.7M active subcriptions is equal to a revenue "gain" (as opposed to your choice of the word "loss") of $23,783,000.00. What is the problem?

[cdstephen]

At max WoW had 12 million subs. Probably a lot of gold farmers as well though.

 

Quick note: 12 million subs =/= 12 million players. The number of actual players floats more around 6 or 8 million.

 

This guy goes through the math using official financial data released by Blizzard. I checked the math myself and the sources, and it all works out.

 

http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/active-subscriptions-revisited-part-1.html

http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/active-subscriptions-revisited-part-2.html

http://daeity.blogspot.com/2010/08/world-of-warcraft-china-interesting_17.html

Definition of a WoW subscriber and implications:

 

 

 

World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition

 

World of Warcraft® subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.[/Quote]

- a Subscriber is not one single player.

- a Subscriber is any account that has a paid subscription fee (if you haven't logged in, but still have an active subcription - then yes it counts).

- a Subscriber is ALSO any account with a first month's subscription.

- a Subscriber is ALSO any person who has an active prepaid card.

- a Subscriber is ALSO any "Internet Game Room" players who have accessed the game over the past 30 days.

 

What this means:

 

- If an account gets banned and a new account is purchased during the same month, that counts as two active subscriptions for one user.

- You pay for the month at the start of the month. When you get banned, you still paid for that entire month and Blizzard won't be refunding your money. The banned/cancelled account will no longer apply once you reach the end of the month.

- A "first month's subscription" is very common especially for gold farmers and gold sellers/traders who need to create new accounts frequently.

- Even though "expired prepaid cards" are mentioned, the cards in fact never expire. You can purchase one in NA/EU, but wait several months/years to activate it for example. When you purchase a prepaid card in China, you can keep adding time to it for as long as you want.

- Blizzard does not provide a definition of an "active prepaid card", so it's possible but highly unlikely, that prepaid cards mean any card that have time on them (whether that time has been used or not.) Since Blizzard does not have immediate access to Point of Sale data, they would base "active prepaid cards" on restocking quantities. If a retailer requires 50 new cards, for example, it's assumed that there are now 50 "active prepaid cards" in the hands of Subscribers, and those would therefore count as a Subscriber.

- Since the game is free in China and it's inexpensive to play, many users have multiple accounts and multiple pre-paid cards. 1 player might represent 2-4 Subscribers for example. These are all considered active pre-paid cards as long as there are still minutes on it.

- Pre-paid cards in China hold minutes (2000 minutes or 4000 minutes for example). If the cards still have 5 minutes left on them, and they are thrown out, that still counts as an Active Subscription. Until the card is completely expired (used up), then it counts as an active prepaid card as per Blizzard's definition.

- There are players worldwide who have multiple accounts (multi-boxing), not a large amount but it exists. One player might represent 8 Subscribers for example.

- "Internet Game Room" players are an interesting scenario. In China for example, players can goto "Game Rooms" (e.g. gaming cafés instead of playing from home) where they can pay for 1-2 hours of gameplay for example. Any user who plays within the 30 day period is counted as an official subscriber. So, you could login to WoW from a Game Room, play for 1 hour to check mail or guild activities and then not sign-in again for an entire month - that still counts as an Active Subscription. Imagine the sheer number of unique logins from Game Rooms? "Game Rooms" as Blizzard calls them are extremely popular in China.

[/Quote]

 

 

Edited February 2, 2012 by cdstephen

[Aleryan]

Good, when the trolls pull out the "I feel sorry for you if you like this game" or "Your standards are lower than mine", you know we won and the yare defeated, because they ran out of EVERY pseudo-valid argument

 

They are flailing away because its still too early and the talking points memos are still being worked on after yesterdays huge setback for the haters. However, they'll be back...and in greater numbers.

[sikandar]

To be honest Activision/Blizzard has never officially stated subscriptions. It is always number of players. The 'Player' definition for Acti/Blizzard has changed throughout the years. At one point they considered accounts on hold as active players. Also in China there is only prepaid time (from last I checked). Buy 60 hours for X Yuan.

[cdstephen]

To be honest Activision/Blizzard has never officially stated subscriptions. It is always number of players. The 'Player' definition for Acti/Blizzard has changed throughout the years. At one point they considered accounts on hold as active players. Also in China there is only prepaid time (from last I checked). Buy 60 hours for X Yuan.

 

Yes they have officially stated subscriptions?

 

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/press/pressreleases.html?id=2847816

 

They don't state player numbers, only subscriptions. Key difference (see my post above).

[Vlacke]

I have no issue with ligament complaints shoot nothing is perfect , but there something else going on here with some poster IMHO..........

 

Paid trolls, my 2 cents.

it would be the only reasonable explanation for such level of ignorance and delusion.

The funny thing is, they are ALL still here, paying subscription and spilling venom on the forum on regular basis.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Vlacke