Gyronamics Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 If you are losing 2 v 1 vs same geared conceal Ops; that's really really pathetic. What defenses do you speak of? Evasion? Don't effect tech or force attacks and is nothing more than a once per minute dot be gone ability. Armor? Max 28ish % mitigation + expertise + 5% defence chance = squishie. Vanish? 2+ min CD that is countered by simply dotting them. So what's left hmm...a self sheild that soaks maybe 2k on long CD? Seriously? Huh. Sounds like you just described the defences of a Merc/Commando. Except they can't vanish and unless I'm imagining things, doesn't an Operative have an ability which removes DoT which they can pull before cloaking screen. Of course that's counterable if you happen to put a timed grenade on them but not everyone has such things. Or even a DoT to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avia Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Huh. Sounds like you just described the defences of a Merc/Commando. Except they can't vanish and unless I'm imagining things, doesn't an Operative have an ability which removes DoT which they can pull before cloaking screen. Of course that's counterable if you happen to put a timed grenade on them but not everyone has such things. Or even a DoT to start with. Come on then, let us all hear the awful plight that mercs are in right now. Let it rip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tikume Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 i top healing in warfronts on a general basis, i can heal all hardmode flashpoints without breaking a sweat, operative not viable? what? do we play the same game? its not an easy class, but that makes it more fun, i barley have enough buttons on keyboard and mouse to bind every skill to. I admit its not perfect as it is now and i feel we lack a unique skill to make us special, dont know what but something =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Come on then, let us all hear the awful plight that mercs are in right now. Let it rip! I die sometimes. This must be fixed. Alternatively you can take my post as what it says which is that defences said to be crap are in fact no worse than defences on other DPS classes. Or you can continue being paranoid. I'm waving no flag and I'm not fussed if you're upset about something I didn't bring up. Edited February 3, 2012 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avia Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I die sometimes. This must be fixed. Alternatively you can take my post as what it says which is that defences said to be crap are in fact no worse than defences on other DPS classes. Or you can continue being paranoid. I'm waving no flag and I'm not fussed if you're upset about something I didn't bring up. Except you are ranged dps. You have the same, if not better heals as an operative. And you have the best knockback in the game, with a snare attached to it. So no, your defenses do not compare at all. Edited February 3, 2012 by Avia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Except you are ranged dps. You have the same, if not better heals as an operative. And you have the best knockback in the game, with a snare attached to it. So no, your defenses do not compare at all. Yes and we can completely vanish in the middle of combat if it goes badly to get away and heal up. OH HANG ON. No I'm stuck where I'm fighting til someone dies. Or I can try walking away at in-combat speed from people jumping on me when I get low health. Try it enough times it might work There is nothing weak about an operatives defence vs the defence of any other dps. Except probably sorc/sage. Edited February 3, 2012 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 A good, geared operative can still solo anyone if they get the opener from stealth. I'm a nearly full champion geared commando healer and I get absolutely ***** by them :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMooMs Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 then u just suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbudz Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Im a raiding operative and while I am pissed about the changes in our pve damage, I did not see a major difference in my damage overall. The game has not gotten magically harder or its to the point where I cannot kill anything. I DO HATE The raid itemization is horrible 40 acc with zero crit or surge really? already got 104% acc on tech and I cannot remember once time where my ranged attack missed @94%? Thats prolly since I only use overload when I got nothing else to spend energy on and the default attack...So why do we need 40 acc on each piece again? And why the hell does my custom gear with blue mods have more stats than the purple tionese gear? At least let me trade those junk crystals in for some decent mods. I really think BW wants to kill the "rogue" class and make us all medics or snipers. BTW the medic gear has crit and surge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamchuck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Im a raiding operative and while I am pissed about the changes in our pve damage, I did not see a major difference in my damage overall. The game has not gotten magically harder or its to the point where I cannot kill anything. I DO HATE The raid itemization is horrible 40 acc with zero crit or surge really? already got 104% acc on tech and I cannot remember once time where my ranged attack missed @94%? Thats prolly since I only use overload when I got nothing else to spend energy on and the default attack...So why do we need 40 acc on each piece again? And why the hell does my custom gear with blue mods have more stats than the purple tionese gear? At least let me trade those junk crystals in for some decent mods. I really think BW wants to kill the "rogue" class and make us all medics or snipers. BTW the medic gear has crit and surge You just posted what I was thinking 30 minutes ago. In the last two weeks, I've lost almost 5% crit and who-knows-how-much surge, which would be okay if I got returns in power, but no, my gear is itemized with accuracy. I haven't heard anything about it in a while but if shield and defense work with mobs in the same way that they do with players, then as an operative, I DEFINITELY have no use for accuracy. I've been disappointed by "minimal upgrades" before now, but that's fine, it happens when you're inching to get better at the end anyway. However, I have never been upset about it. The daily commendation mods in my older orange gear are better than the drops I got today. Endgame itemization is screwy everywhere, PvE or PvP. A few weeks back there was a huge discussion in the PvP forum about the uselessness of tank PvP gear. They are covered in shield and defense, which is fine, but for the fact that neither stat do much of anything against the attacks from most classes, especially in their PvP specs. It would definitely be nice if this was fixed sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselCheezel Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Glad I unsubbed when I did. Not playing another game where the dev balances around what ppl are crying about on the forums instead of what actually happens in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinworms Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I raid on my Op. Done everything 8 man Nightmare. We run two ops- myself as dps (conceal or lethality) and we have a op healer. Currently there is nothing so difficult in this game pve-wise that would warrant excluding ops from the raid...at least until dps meters come out... Edited February 3, 2012 by Pinworms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Prime Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Glad I unsubbed when I did. Not playing another game where the dev balances around what ppl are crying about on the forums instead of what actually happens in the game. I could be wrong, but I thought you couldn't post without a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamchuck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I could be wrong, but I thought you couldn't post without a sub. You can unsub but you pay for it ahead of time, so he could well have anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselCheezel Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I could be wrong, but I thought you couldn't post without a sub. Without an active account maybe. 18 days left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberz Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It's kinda crappy to see all this threads about how bad Operativ is after the new patch. I just started to play Operativ and now it feels like a waste of time... hmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selais Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It's kinda crappy to see all this threads about how bad Operativ is after the new patch. I just started to play Operativ and now it feels like a waste of time... hmm.. You picked the fotm class like a month too late dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You picked the fotm class like a month too late dude fotm? i barely saw any other operatives before, and now.. i still barely see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamrolled Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Pre-nerf operative/scoundrel = 3 GCD death. Post nerf I had to blow all of my cooldowns and call for help over vent agianst 1 operative but I lived. Then as my 500+ expertise friend was fighting the operative with me constantly healing (I am a full champion geared full heal specced combat medic) I started healing my friend at 8k health and with full healing watched his health slowly decrease. The operative was able to cc/disable him to reduce his dps to almost nil while fully being able to lay the smack down. After he killed the sentinel I had to run to more aid. If this is the nerfed operative then they did not go near far enough. Two well pvp geared and well played individuals should not lose to 1 well played/geared operative...any day. The class still needs to be nerfed and here is why. A gunslinger or sniper does great burst damage but they have a hard counter. LOS them and they no longer can do any damage to you. You can play well against them to mitigate the damage they do beyond the metrics. So an 8k over 3 seconds is survivable. Operatives/scoundresl this is not possible. In a 1 v 1 and 2 v 1 situation well geared operatives are crushing people...not oh man I barely pulled that off...crushing people still post nerf. TTK against certain classes is still 4 GCDs or less. 6 seconds from initial hit to target dead is way to fast. I have learned though. We are going to roll a 3/1 man scoundrel dps/healer team...no point in continueing to play lesser classes when obviously bioware isnt serious about balance. Spent to many years getting jacked as a shaman in WOW to hold loyalty to my favored class. Wanna fix scoundrels? Leave their damage the same and remove all defensives from the class. Kill fast die even faster because there has to be a trade off to a 4 GCD TTK. Just my opinion. I almost fell of my chair after rading this. You two must be the worst players evar. I play both a 50bm merc and a 50 bm operative. Im arsenalspecced and i laugh when i get popped for 2kish from hidden scoundrels. And im in the worst possible spec to deal with em. With my crit/surge rating ill always heal for 2k insta with cd, usually 4k and i will be able to cc the the scoundrel or keep him at bay long enough for him to either give up, get zerged by my team or he will simply die while i kite and nuke him down. My merc has less BM gear then my operative. Explain to me why my merc should be able to pull off 3 tracers at 1.8-3.1k and a 4k heatseeker followup + 2.5-3.5k railshot from 30m. Besides traveltime railshot and hestseeker is instant. I more then often do 1.3k openers on my operative, followed up by 900-2k laceratesv + 900-2.5k backstabbs. How is that fair? After gcd8, operatives dont have any more to spam, the dps nosedives and youre forced to wait for cd`s as a melee assassin with no range. I dont care if i suck *** 1v1 on my merc, i play in premades. If someone is up in my face, my mates will take care of him so i can continue spamming. Also to the people who say operatives got more stuns now, they are fine; Most classes can pop 1m cooldowns and stun for 4 secs. For an operative to do that its a 45sec cd. Healing operatives is subpar merc and sorc heals and lack utility. If youre not experiencing issues your not playing at a high enough level. Im not talking about hardmodes here. lulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranger Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I played from 32 (as I couldnt solo the act 1 boss as full concealment) with 11 points in medic and all the way to 50, which means I didn't have acid strike. I didn't even use Hidden Strike all that often, because I was being a moron. So clearly any leveling issues are related to L2P. This affects 40+, but really only hurts at 50 where differences matter a lot more. Edited February 3, 2012 by Garranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slonep Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not even going to read the wall of OPs text, just the thread title. I'm going to assume that you're upset by the "adjustment" and think that Ops aren't viable in PVP now. (Very few PvE QQs are ever posted) If you're having trouble with your Op in PVP then... you're either undergeared, a less skilled player, or just are upset that you can't burst kill anyone you'd like to anymore. Operative destroy my overpowered Sorc constantly so... Sorry dude. It's for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I just rolled an operative and I have no plans of changing it. They have cool spaceships and british accents. I could care less about buffs and nerfs. You mean you "couldn't care less"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catnipkiller Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 snipers tactics are... hope no one sees him in cover see someone that does not notice him/her fire off a full rotation have half those skills be deflected have said person come up to you and wtfpwn you you think operatives have it bad in pvp? lol.... rolling the worst class in game and ************ about pvp. = prceless. rolling the " best" class in pvp and not being able to pve. priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elyxion Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yes it's a crying shame the devs don't play the game themselves to test it. I've been playing an operative since beta and at present I have a level 41 agent who now can't even complete missions if they have a gold elite mob in them. This has made the game not enjoyable for me anymore and led to me canceling my subscription to go find a game with more enjoyment. I never thought I would see the day I unsubscribed from SWTOR but the devs just killed it for me after spending all my time enjoying my agent just for them to nerf the hell out of him. So two more weeks of trying to complete mission I am now struggling with because my agent is now too piss weak to kill gold elite mobs at my same level and then I'm off to greener pastures unfortunately. PVE missioning is way easier with heal spec and tank pet .. i mean it s just way easier and faster to lvl like that even if you r not a healer by predication 11 pts in heal spec is enough to kill 2lvl upfront elite with a bit of mind and skill ( and kitting xD ) and you r not a pvp player you can not imagine the real frustration the nerf brought BW is noob to mmo, it s the first real nerf they perform ... they just over did it ... but they ll get it (i hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbudz Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Glad I unsubbed when I did. Not playing another game where the dev balances around what ppl are crying about on the forums instead of what actually happens in the game. Why are you posting then? I never understand why people still troll the forums if they no longer play the game. Noones cares if you unsubbed ...you are nonfactor and a waste of space in the forums of the game I do play. Glad someone else thinks op dps itemization sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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