Upcoming Shadow Changes 1.1.2

[Kai-Eurah-Tird]

Basically Bioware just trim the shadow down to 3 builds, Kinetic combat, Infiltration and Balance. I guess this'll help make balancing future contents easier?

[allexj]

ok *** dose cost 100 mean each of our abblitys cost 100 force? Edited February 2, 2012 by allexj

[dutch-master]

if the playstyle of a class isn't as intended... You can't change it 6 weeks in after many dedicated players have gotten used to and enjoyed this style.

 

yes they can, and are changing it.

 

 

Deal with it....

[stridemachine]

I still don't understand how 28-0-18 died.

 

We're talking about losing an ability that has a 33% chance to proc off a melee critical hit.

 

Are you people telling me it's so omega awesome that suddenly a whole spec is rendered nonviable by it's absence?

 

Personally, I think forum people love to cry. They love swimming in their own tears. They can look at themselves in the mirror and admire that big, gaping hole ripped out of them by the nerfbat and say, "Man...did you see what Bioware just did to me?"

 

It's hip and fashionable to be "put down by the man."

 

Sing it to me brother

[McGrumpy]

only reason to be 23-0-18 over 31-0-10 was Force Strike (especially after the slow time buff). That's been said many times. I spent 60+ levels as 23-0-18, I loved the spec. I surely could run 24-0-17 but I might as well just drop those last 7 points and get slow time instead of FiB.

[Pharlan]

23/0/18 died when 1.1 hit and Slow Time got its huge buff. This is just making it official.

 

Quoted for truth.

[AdovenX]

you guys do realize that we are still only a month-ish into the game right? you really think theyre gonna release it and not change things? people complain or they notice something they missed before or needs to be improved.. it happens.. Welcome to MMO's.. or video games in general for that matter. i would almost be willing to bet that there will be a time where people cry "nerf shadows!1!1".. just part of the cycle.. if it bothers you that much you should prolly go draw or play an instrument or something.. at least then there wont be random "updates"...

[Wardoomed]

I still don't understand how 28-0-18 died.

 

We're talking about losing an ability that has a 33% chance to proc off a melee critical hit.

 

Are you people telling me it's so omega awesome that suddenly a whole spec is rendered nonviable by it's absence?

 

Personally, I think forum people love to cry. They love swimming in their own tears. They can look at themselves in the mirror and admire that big, gaping hole ripped out of them by the nerfbat and say, "Man...did you see what Bioware just did to me?"

 

It's hip and fashionable to be "put down by the man."

 

Sing it to me brother

 

If you haven't played it, then you have no idea.

 

If you have played it, you know it's critical to the build.

[Neamhan]

I can't speak to Balance because I never specced in that tree, either as a primary or hybrid. I can tell you why I'm so upset about losing access to Circling Shadows on my tank spec, though.

 

The Circling Shadows Kinetic/Infiltration hybrid spec was just a tradeoff of spike and AoE damage (from Upheaval and Slow Force, respectively) for smoother damage and better energy regen (from the lower cost Projects and the upgrade to Blackout).

 

Kinetic Shadows are the only one of the three tank ACs that have no ability that lets them get a chunk of energy back instantly in an emergency (Vanguards have Recharge Cells and Guardians have Combat Focus; Shadows just have to stand around waiting on regen). Speccing into Masked Assault fixes that oversight. And Circling Shadows itself is excellent for keeping you from throwing away huge chunks of force at once when using Project. While one could theoretically still spec to get just Masked Assault, it's literally a waste of 10 points for one situational ability. It was worth it in conjunction with Circling Shadows though, since both those talents together helped energy usage a great deal.

 

I don't see what's wrong with that spec that it required elimination. It's not superior to the cookie cutter Kinetic 31/0/10 spec, but it's a lot more fun since you aren't fighting your force bar as much, in my opinion.

[stridemachine]

If you have played it, you know it's critical to the build.

 

Explain it to me.

 

Give me some numbers.

 

All I hear is "cry cry unplayable"

 

Are you losing an instant cc? the 50% crit damage to DS? The insta-cast 30m aoe?

 

No, all you're losing is the "low" chance to proc a 6 second dot

 

How is this soooooo critical to the build?

 

I agree that it's never nice to lose things, but you people are going waayy overboard

 

Then again, crying about injustice is hip right now

[RobNightfall]

Explain it to me.

 

Give me some numbers.

 

All I hear is "cry cry unplayable"

 

Are you losing an instant cc? the 50% crit damage to DS? The insta-cast 30m aoe?

 

No, all you're losing is the "low" chance to proc a 6 second dot

 

How is this soooooo critical to the build?

 

I agree that it's never nice to lose things, but you people are going waayy overboard

 

Then again, crying about injustice is hip right now

 

Essentially 23/0/18 was a jack of all trades and master of none build. The force strike proc happened routinely enough that it was a big part of your damage cycle, especially in PvE. With it gone you lose to much to continue to use the spec. The build could possibly be played but it would be stupid to do so. Most of the anger is from BW continuing to choose to remove player choice and variability from their game. I love the game and had high hopes for SWTOR being my MMO home for years to come, but I keep looking at GW2 and thinking it sounds like it will be a major improvement. I hate to say it, but a lot of the sandboxers' fears appear to be coming true for this game. BW appears to be intent on micromanaging game play instead of just incorporating heavy story elements.

[Lokken]

Changes seems pretty good to me. I'm a happy shadow right now.

 

Indeed Bioware seems to emphasize on full tree builds rather than hybrid ones, but I mostly agree with them, so no brainer for me.

 

On the other hand:

only reason to be 23-0-18 over 31-0-10 was Force Strike (especially after the slow time buff). That's been said many times. I spent 60+ levels as 23-0-18, I loved the spec. I surely could run 24-0-17 but I might as well just drop those last 7 points and get slow time instead of FiB.

 

I've played Kinetic tank since mid-beta (and playing now this on live). I've througly tested the pure 31/0/10 build, and the 23/0/18, 25/0/16 and 27/0/14 hybrid tank builds (always PvE oriented). And even some other more 'extreme' builds.

 

For a kinetic tank, the pure 31/0/10 always seemed as much more solid choice (even more as you approach the higher end content). Damage wise 23/0/18 or 25/0/16 were slightly superior, but not aggro/utility-wise (and even worse after 1.1 Slow Time buff). A bit more damage and the convenience of the targeted and ranged Force in Balance could be very easily worked around with some smart tanking, with noticeable survivability enhacements.

 

I cannot speak for PVP players though, all this is from a pure PvE point of view. I don't care for PVP anyway, so kudos to Bioware for the changes.

 

L

Edited February 2, 2012 by Lokken

[anstalt]

I cannot speak for PVP players though, all this is from a pure PvE point of view. I don't care for PVP anyway, so kudos to Bioware for the changes.

 

L

 

For PvP players this isn't (shouldn't be) a big change.

 

1) Stance dancing.

 

In PvP, shields basically never work (only against non-force/non-tech attacks which dont crit) and armour only affects non-force/non-tech attacks. So, switching from shadow technique to kinetic for example, would only give you ~20% more mitigation against non-force/non-tech attacks. Yeh, its more mitigation, but its a very small amount and won't save you in an emergency. The main thing stance dancing will prevent is switching to kinetic so you can guard someone.

 

This, I feel, is a good thing. This increases the importance of proper tanks and prevents shadows/sins from farming medals easier than other people.

 

2) Locking circling shadows / force strike to stances

 

I'll start with kinetic hybrids. Both these locks prevent tank hybrids from using these skills. These skills don't do much to increase damage, but what to do is reduce the pressure to conserve your force pool. Kinetic hybrids already get 30% more regen, allowing them to conserve force either with circling shadows or free MCs means that tanks can spam more damaging skills in pvp. This change means tank should do less damage in pvp which is only a good thing! It should encourage more group cohesion and balance out medals across the archetypes.

 

As for balance shadows who also use circling shadows whilst sat in kinetic stance, this change again is basically forcing you into force technique to do damage. You'll have a harder time with force management which removes your advantage over pure inf/balance shadows. You'll be slightly more squishy in pvp which again puts you more on par with other DPS. You'll have to rely more on tanks and healers but if tanks are getting a nerf to damage, they'll appreciate being wanted more!

 

 

 

 

I understand why people are getting upset but I do feel that this is a good thing. These changes wont make much difference to pvp at all and in pve it will just serve to balance out the dps of balance shadows and inf shadows.

[KilmarFyrewynd]

Wait, where are people noticing Technique Mastery not giving armor penetration on Shadow Technique? Is it on PTS or is it on the prod servers now? If it was or will be removed, I need to spec out of Technique Mastery and switch to a 2/31/8.

 

Can someone please elaborate?

[AstralFire]

Pretty sure it's a tooltip bug on the skill. Edited February 2, 2012 by AstralFire

[Aaramis]

Re: Balance changes, they look to be a buff to PvP since most Balance Shadows ran around in Force technique anyways, so now they're more of a Consular version of Sentinel's "Watchman" spec, which is a good thing. I wish I could see the opponent's face as I'm self-healing through the fight, while my DoT crits eat away at his/her life.

 

For PvE? I'm not sure. I often ran around in Combat technique simply because the healing was negligable from the DoTs and FiB, and my armour rating was junk otherwise. The downside of a DoT-focused spec, after all, is that it takes TIME to kill stuff - and with the typical paper-thin armour of a Shadow, that made life somewhat dangerous. We don't have the burst dps of an Infiltration Shadow, after all.

 

Combat technique solved that problem at the mere cost of one of our DoTs (Force Breach). But now that that's no longer a viable option? I don't know. I guess it remains to be seen whether our DoT crit heals will make up for Force technique's lack of armour rating. I'll get beat up 10 times faster, but I can self-heal now. Hmmm...

 

Guess Nadia is off the list of possible companions for sure now, as I think I'm going to need Theran perma-strapped to me :/

Edited February 2, 2012 by Aaramis

[Kai-Eurah-Tird]

You can get Iresso or Qyzen to tank while you DPS. >_>

[Aaramis]

You can get Iresso or Qyzen to tank while you DPS. >_>

 

That's the only other option, yeah. And last I checked, Qyzen was going down too quickly, despite keeping his gear up to date.

I'll try out Iresso once I gear him up. Fingers crossed.

[Belecfaron]

The tank companions will have about 24% higher survivability than yourself, (not counting the 2/2 deception talent) and assuming equal gear. Odds are on larger pulls you will need to start off in Combat Technique, as you won't be able to switch on the fly, and split aggro with your npc tank. For golds you will probably need to grab Tharan.