GnatB Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Gear should never be the deciding factor in PVP, in any MMO, and it clearly is today in TOR 50v50. People should want to PVP because its fun, and they enjoy it, the reward is the PVP itself, not approaching PVP as work, or a chore, that must be done for weeks in order to start having fun. I'll throw in level too. Which is why PvP in an RPG is pointless. The two determining aspects of a character in an RPG are SUPPOSED to be gear and character abilities (determined by level) Shoehorning PvP in an RPG is square peg round hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selestian Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Fair concerns... but nobody said anything about nerfs for PvP gear just yet. There are many ways of achieving our intended goal, from stabilizing early gear acquisition through diminishing/removal of the random factor to the introduction of new gear over time... and a dozen other methods in-between. To spell it out: We currently have no intention to modify the stats on existing PvP gear downwards (which I assume you mean by 'nerf'). Nobody has talked about eliminating the gap between old level 50s and new level 50s either. -- Georg You really should consider it because right now new 50s are just as "overwhelmed" in the matches against folks with all this pvp gear as level 20s are bolstered against level 50s. Really need to consider scaling down the amount of expertise, normalize it or make it so you match make matches where you have low expertise versus similar not pre-made battlemasters versus noobs. PVP should not be so gear bound, right now it is almost all gear and very little skill. Make pvp where combat is about how the players play, not about how ridiculous the expertise bonus on the gear is. You'd do better to just remove expertise. I dunno how any Battlemaster geared player has a good time facerolling everyone else w/o similar gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyDroid Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'll throw in level too. Which is why PvP in an RPG is pointless. The two determining aspects of a character in an RPG are SUPPOSED to be gear and character abilities (determined by level) Shoehorning PvP in an RPG is square peg round hole. I agree. PvP games should be: everyone gets an equal number of points to allocate as you wish, skill and tactics determine the winner. AS I've said before, they guys who thought of putting together PvP and RPGs where idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danakar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) That's great and all, but what about the crafters who have to rely on RNG to get a crit crafted piece? You've just made their craft lessened by not allowing their crit crafted armor to be worth any more than the normally crafted gear. Uhm, what? Crit crafted gear that get a freebie augment is just an added bonus for that individual crafter when crafting items. I'm talking about the possibility to cater to each and every player by allowing an augment slot on their random world drops and whatnot. Augmentation Devices would be the solution in my opinion. Besides, I'm here to offer suggestions; not overhaul the entire crafting process for this game. And I believe my suggestion of adding an Augmentation Device would help greatly in making augments more relevant If they could be crafted, they can be sold. So then the player can decide to either buy this or that piece without an augment and get an Augmentation Device; or pay more for a crafted item that already comes with the augment slot available. In this scenario, everyone wins. Edited February 2, 2012 by Danakar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyDroid Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Fixed. Critically crafted orange gear makes everything that takes more skill than around 30 useless unless you happen to like the look. I'm sure Bioware have thought of that, since it's blindingly obvious; and hence blindingly obvious it's not going to happen. Low level orange gear is not going to hold base stat mods from raid gear. We already know that the base stats mods for raid gear won't be standard "armoring". The reason you can't extract them now is they are differentiating them into "chest amoring" "boot armoring" "helmet armoring" etc. You will need 400 in the appropiate craft skill in order to craft an orange item with that kind of slot. There are going to be hundreds of new level 50 orange recipes added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobWolf Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Major changes are currently on schedule for the next major content patch, such as extractable basemods (armoring, barrel, etc.) from purple items I'm very excited for this but I'm curious as to how the set bonuses for the high end purple gear will work. Removing the mods and putting them in orange gear is nice (as my PvE set looks terrible) but to remain optimal we need to keep the set bonuses too. I'd guess the best way to do this is to put the set bonus onto the armor mods themselves but, as I'm not a dev, I have no idea if that's an option or how much work it would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fascion Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) and as i read through, the Rakata ones will now be less effective than the Exotech ones...If they are indeed bringing them down to Energized stats, then you are correct. Exotech is currently better than Energized. Tell me BioWare, how does this equate to cost-savings? I am a BioChem, dag-blast-it! I chose this profession solely to have access to the best possible stims and adrenals around the clock. If I am going to be forced to use expendables just to achieve these stats, then I might as well be buying them from someone else. Lord knows I don't need all of these credits I am sitting on. And on that note, why on earth would anyone with these recipes actually bother making them to sell? Stims and adrenals may well become the 'Stone of Jordan' of SWTOR, given how pointless credits are. You know what? Let's get this kicked off right now... Trading 100 stims/adrenals of your choice for 'The Choppa' w/ Aug slot. Mails to Fsac on Prophecy of the Five. Edited February 2, 2012 by Fascion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicksDigHarleys Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Please fill in all the gaps in recipes the various professions have...for example: Artifice: there are no +willpower shield generators Synthweaving: there are many, many missing light armor recipes compared to heavy and medium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulmhof Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Quick question... Why are you continually nerfing Biochem instead of bringing other crafts up to the same level? IE: Let the level 23~24 mods drop off of Normal mode and hard mode. This will promote Artifice and Cybtertech to an EXTREME level. Also make the alien data cube drop off of normal Mode raid bosses instead of the Biometrich Crystal Alloy, that will promote the money obtained by these 2 professions so they can easily afford the Biochem Adrenals. Armstech/Cybertech/Synthweaving - Let BoE patterns drop from Flashpoints and Raids that are equivalent to the Tier one set, AND LET THEM BE BOE. That way everyone in end game can use the money they obtain from their crafting to work with and buy from the other crafts without disrupting the balance or NEED to raid/do flashpoints for tier 2 and 3. Also... Expertise - This is a wasted stat. Your Mythic Crew made DaoC, and DaoC is extremely balanced and still running today because PvP'ers depended on PVE raid items to be competitive, and visa versa. I understand you cater to a group of casual players that don't have the desire or skill to match gear to the level that was necessary in DaoC but understand if you lower the significance of Expertise in PVP, then all your PvP oriented players that grind PvP instead of PVE will be quitting this game, including myself. You can't segregate PvP and PvE for casual players and expect people to be happy. Don't nerf your Expertise. This is critical. People that PvP should NOT be on the same playing field as PvE'rs. Yes, skill should be required to determine the outcome, however this argument goes both ways. PvP'ers dont want to be FORCED to raid to be competitive, just like PvE'rs don't want to be FORCED to PvP to be competitive. That's my 2c. I really don't want to quit this game because of ignorant Dev's. It has a lot of potential to be something good. I LOVE YOU MYTHIC ! No, I don't love you EA, you wreck everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Uhm, what? Crit crafted gear that get a freebie augment is just an added bonus for that individual crafter when crafting items. I'm talking about the possibility to cater to each and every player by allowing an augment slot on their random world drops and whatnot. Augmentation Devices would be the solution in my opinion. Besides, I'm here to offer suggestions; not overhaul the entire crafting process for this game. And I believe my suggestion of adding an Augmentation Device would help greatly in making augments more relevant If they could be crafted, they can be sold. So then the player can decide to either buy this or that piece without an augment and get an Augmentation Device; or pay more for a crafted item that already comes with the augment slot available. In this scenario, everyone wins. Actually no, because there is no need to even try to get a crit on a crafted item if you can just buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarianrakista Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Either add reuseable medpacks to game for everyone or remove them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_McMan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If improving crafting means adding modifiable hood-down robes to Synthweaving, I will be one happy camper. I've held on the Snythweaving through all 400 ranks, despite only getting ~3-4 items of use throughout my level progression. My hope has been that modifiable schematics for the hood down robes that the Jedi Knight community has been clamoring for would someday be added to my repertoire. I have high hopes for the development team at Bioware and it's beucase I know they can, have, and will deliver great things. Keep it up guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranzen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Please tell me why biochem is the only profession you guys are looking into. Seriously, every other profession is so godawful you would be a completely numbskull to choose it over biochem, yet you guys keep tweaking only biochem. Armormech, synthweaving, armstech are a complete waste of time due to the fact that nothing you get is unique, every recipe you get can get gained as a full drop by doing hard modes or raids, you guys have put little to know effort into the crafting system. This change to remove the armoring from epics AFFECTS CRAFTING IN NO WAY! Seriously, how is that even put into the profession changes. There are so many problems with crafting. You guys need to dig deeper and try harder. I totally agree. There is nothing in Armormech, synthweaving, armstech, and to a lesser amount cybertech that can't be gained through hardmode FPs or easy mode Raids. There needs to be more "Easter Eggs" or hidden tasks around the universe that could unlock interesting schematics that can't be found - unique snowflakes much like the magenta crystal in Artifice. Also, these things need to be BoE. There's so many crafted items that are BoP it makes it difficult to see any use in a majority of the crafting professions. If you can't sell most of the high end gear, than what good is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdobrowney Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I totally agree. There is nothing in Armormech, synthweaving, armstech, and to a lesser amount cybertech that can't be gained through hardmode FPs or easy mode Raids. There needs to be more "Easter Eggs" or hidden tasks around the universe that could unlock interesting schematics that can't be found - unique snowflakes much like the magenta crystal in Artifice. Also, these things need to be BoE. There's so many crafted items that are BoP it makes it difficult to see any use in a majority of the crafting professions. If you can't sell most of the high end gear, than what good is it. Agree... You can roll a lockbox and get high end endgame gear and sell it, but crafters can not sell their high endgame gear. .. How is this fair to the crafters Edited February 2, 2012 by mdobrowney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyDroid Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Either add reuseable medpacks to game for everyone or remove them. Making the reusable packs less effective than consumable packs = removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daregu Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Why does everyone have to always bring up PvP when he is clearly talking about End Game PvE. Whats wrong with you PvP obsessed people? Also if what you are talking about were to happen would that make every pvper automatically pick whatever craft was capable of doing that so that they wouldn't be forced to be slaved to the market? Only way that works is if mutiple crafting professions had access to this ability and if that is what you wanted to say you left it out of your post. Well why wouldn't you widen the scope of game progression to include both pve as well as pvp. They are two parts of the game that paying customers enjoy equally even if you don't need it to be happy others do. As far as pvp modding I don't see why you would think that adding mods with expertise would be an issue when as it is no mods are BOP and are freely traded on the market for as low as 20k for end game purples. In fact the only BOP item a cybertech has in his entire schematic book is his end game grenades, and every hoverbike in the game that he can craft as well. Which would be something else I believe BW should look into, considering that in the AH they have a category for hoverbikes but don't currently allow us to craft any that we can sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiken Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Am I to understand that our Rakata stuff that requires Biometric crystal allows, dropped only from hard mode chests and rolled against often, are now going to be equivalent to exotech and ernergized that are crafted with normal mission ingredients? how does that make sense at all?! I dont think they need to be better, but damn, they should at least have equivalent material costs. http://www.torhead.com/item/ciiccbI/exotech-absorb-adrenal vs http://www.torhead.com/item/e2UIQy9/rakata-absorb-adrenal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varturius Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Am I to understand that our Rakata stuff that requires Biometric crystal allows, dropped only from hard mode chests and rolled against often, are now going to be equivalent to exotech and ernergized that are crafted with normal mission ingredients? how does that make sense at all?! I dont think they need to be better, but damn, they should at least have equivalent material costs. http://www.torhead.com/item/ciiccbI/exotech-absorb-adrenal vs http://www.torhead.com/item/e2UIQy9/rakata-absorb-adrenal It doesn't make sense, still don't see why Bioware thinks it does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm sure Bioware have thought of that, since it's blindingly obvious; and hence blindingly obvious it's not going to happen. Low level orange gear is not going to hold base stat mods from raid gear. We already know that the base stats mods for raid gear won't be standard "armoring". The reason you can't extract them now is they are differentiating them into "chest amoring" "boot armoring" "helmet armoring" etc. You will need 400 in the appropiate craft skill in order to craft an orange item with that kind of slot. There are going to be hundreds of new level 50 orange recipes added. Hmm.. a new *type* of "Raid slot" in addition (or replacing) armoring slot for skill 400 schematics. (or just automatically adding/replacing said slot if you have 400 skill when you craft it would probably be preferable to the crafter, but they'd probably from a dev standpoint want an entire new set of recipies (one for each look) that use grade 6 mats). That could work. 'Course, still leaves people that like the look of social gear out in the cold. (but that can be circumvented with "raid slot" and "augment slot" adding items that you can make at ~400 skill.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypht Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 embrace the game’s extensive appearance customization throughout the game. Please, please, please *and other groveling as well* make a new socket in the social armors that would allow a player to put in some kind of item that would modify the armor's armor rating from light, to medium or heavy. There's so many wonderful social armors in the game but they're all rated as light armor, they're absolutely useless to players whose classes need medium or heavy armor in the field. Sure, social armor is fun for roleplay but what if you actually want to use them? They are orange and have full mod slots, so it's clear they're meant to be used. Let them be used by all players, let players modify the armor rating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Making the reusable packs less effective than consumable packs = removal. Only if they significant increase the items:mats ratio on the consumable stuff so it isn't prohibitively expensive in time/money to make/use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealHostyle Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi, As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high Regards Georg Hi, Thanks for the input, I just wanted to let you know I've played hard to get the gear I have, especially as a healer. If you;'ve played wz match's you know about bonus valor for medals. As a pure healer I can get the following medals: 2.5k single heal 75k healing 300k healing Please add some more healing medals ...... DPS classes can easily get 10+ medals per game .... Please do not mess with the gear we've worked so hard to get. We've earned that advantage and others should earn it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyrprime Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) In regards to making crafted "golds" be capable of critting an augment slot. This is fine.. as long as every item in the game can be RE'd to a gold. Even raid loot. If not this will just be trading one set of bottlenecks for another. Instead of only raid gear/pvp reward being worth it for set bonuses, now only crafted gear will be worth it for augments. With how god aweful the crafted gear looks. This is the absolute worst possible thing you could do. Everyone will be running around in the same half a dozen ugly pink outfits and unsubscribing. Don't do it BW!!! Read my signature for a fully fleshed out idea and suggestion on how to approach the crewskill balance! 13 pages of support and counting! Edited February 2, 2012 by Aethyrprime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningcurse Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 @Georg thank you for taking the time to read and respond to the comments. good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranzen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 In regards to the crafting in the game, I'm still somewhat confused as to it's roll in the overall philosophy and how it's currently implemented. Many of the highest tier items for specific crafters are Bind on Pick-up, yet the items are visually similar to many other drops and the stats are inferior to drops from Easy mode Ops and HM FPs. Only Artifice has a unique system for attaining some very high quality items ie the magenta crystal. Maybe look at new schematics and how they're attained. There are numerous schematics that drop in Ops and HM Flashpoints that are Bind on Pick up. The problem with this is that most of the time a group doesn't have that specific crafter. Somehow this should be addressed, because vendoring schematics instead of being given the option to sell them or send them to guildies is just a waste. The probelm with Biochem is not that the items are that much better but the top tier items actually have a use and can be sold often. Other crafters have way too many BoP items and can't sell their top tier goods. Crafting in general just needs to matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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