Iceman_sith Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Huge problem with augments. Once people have an set of gear with an augment slot. People will never get to enjoy any other gear in the game as there will be no point to it, forget tier gear, forget social gear it wont have augment slots so I wont ware it. (I am talking visual here) Possible Solutions; Allow players to craft augment attachments to add to loot such as social gear or tier sets. Do not allow tier armaments to be placed in gear with an augment slots or have the augment slots grey out. The issue then is with weapons Have an appearance tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzano Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Very nice anouncements. But please improve the GTN. Here some concrete suggestions for improvement: The selection of an itemtype and subtypes via combobox is not good to use. Better would be some kind of tree, to select itemtypes and subtypes. Also it should be possible to search items without selecting a subtype. Another nice feature to improve the usability of the GTN would be some kind of adding more items at once for sale. If i am selling some craftingmaterials as stacks of 4 pieces for example, it would be nice to enter the count of stacks and the stacksize i want to offer in the GTN. Furthermore if i got three Treashure Hunting Missions in my inventory (i got slicing), i want so sell all three Missions in one step for the same price. Same for cybertech plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptorchid Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Major changes are currently on schedule for the next major content patch, such as extractable basemods (armoring, barrel, etc.) from purple items, critical crafting successes on orange outfits, more bind-on-equip schematic drops for artifice and other professions, increased relevance of augments, better reverse engineering chance, and other improvements. We want to create significant incentive for players to engage in the crafting economy – as provider of goods or supplier - without requiring players to take up a specific profession as a ticket into endgame. Long term, our plan is to evolve Star Wars: The Old Republic’s game economy to a more player driven model, strengthen and improve the GTN and embrace the game’s extensive appearance customization throughout the game. We have a long list of improvements planned for that but we’re also anxious to hear from you. Feel free to use this thread to give us your feedback on the topic! Regards Georg Thank you for sharing your vision on crafting. I know that A LOT of players who craft were under the impression that crafting "would be worth a damn," and it sounds like you finally want to achieve that. Now, looking at the list of proposed changes (and knowing it is not 100% indicative of ALL the changes to come), I just wanted to add two in case they slipped through the cracks: 1. Armstech -- We need to be able to craft modifiable weapons besides the few level 48 ones. Suggestion: Allow crafters to RE commendation equipment to learn how to craft that item at a 100% success rate. 2a. Increase the rate of discovering crafting schematics from Mission Skills. I have 400 Investigation and I have had it for about 2 weeks. In that time I have literally discovered 4 schematics from that crew skill. That is way too low. 2b. Conversely, do what you did in Beta -- make ALL gear modifiable! It was a universally lauded system from a player's perspective. 3. Armormech/Synthweavers need to make armoring mods. Re-organize mod crafters as such: Armstech = Barrels Armormech = Armoring mods with Cunning/Aim Synthweaving = Armoring mods with Strength/Willpower Cybertech = Modification Cunning/Aim, Enhancement Cunning/Aim mods, AND Augments! Artifice = Color Crystals, Modification Strength/Willpower, Enhancement Strength/Willpower 4. Crafting Gear HAS to have identical, or slightly lower stats to the best end-game gear in order for it to be worth a damn at end-game. Crafting Gear should be slightly statistically better than the best end-game gear when it has an augment slot in it, because it takes a whole lot more time, money, and effort to make than it does to farm the gear by other means. 5. No BoP crafted gear and no crafting requirements -- ever! If I want grenades, I should be abel to buy them from a Cybertech and use them, just like you plan for Biochem goods. Edited February 2, 2012 by Kryptorchid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodaa Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'd like to see manual selection of the items i may craft. When I focusing on one item, i find it annoying to search through everything. Especially when i minimize heavy armor and medium armor in synthweaving but once i log back in it's all reset. Having check boxes to let me uncheck the ones i never want to see would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haroshia Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) It would be cool if the things in Cybertech weren't all. A) BoP or B) Totally outclassed at endgame by daily mod drops you can totally outfit your gear with in a week. Oh yeah and how to fix the GTN? 1) Create a box where you can type the item name of what you're looking for and hit search while not having to select any subcategory. 2) There is no 2 Edited February 2, 2012 by Haroshia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaur Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What are you guys thinking? These changes will make crited orange gear the most desirable in the game and make filling that gear with mods from the first boss of a given tier possible. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it seems a pretty radical change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novastinger Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This is very nice to hear, you've touched on a great many issues that players have been vocal about, and I'm glad crafting was addressed this quickly. From here though, you know the saying, you can talk the talk... but let's see how much gets implemented the next month or two before I give too much applause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjiyomi_Jun Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I don't understand why some people here are having problems understanding that Biochem NEEDED a nerf. It was affecting end game decision-making. The balance of the game was being crippled because of it. Now that Biochem is more in-line with other crew skills, they can be addressed and expanded upon. Balance comes first. Period. Also, stop expecting them to give explicit details on every single feature they hint at. They are not going to provide any more detail because these new implementations are still in the works. Wouldn't it be more upsetting for them to promise something that they could not fulfill later? When they are ready they will let us know. They have had no issue sharing updates with the community. Great post Bioware. You guys just keep doing what you are doing. I appreciate all the updates this game is receiving and realize that this is a process. No one should reasonably expect some mega patch that will "fix" everything all at once. Unforeseen balance issues happen, that's the way it goes. No one can predict every variable, much less when 2 million people get their hands on it. tl;dr Take your Ritalin and read my post. Haters gonna hate. Come at me bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WulfSolaris Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 While I'd prefer to have more semi-concrete (concrete in the drying stage? ) information on how you plan to make other crafting skills more viable, I know that development schedules don't always lend themselves to absolutes so early in the process. Still, I imagine you have SOME blueprint you're working with on how to bring parity to these skills, so any light you could shed would be fantastic. Having said that, I have a few concerns on some of the things you said you plan on doing, namely making augment slots possible on orange crafted gear, and how it relates to end-game armor. Now, this has nothing to do with stats, as my understanding of the system will be that, just because we can craft orange armor, it doesn't mean it will automatically be on par with end-game gear. One will still have to farm raid gear for the proper mods to slot into the gear, so I see no balance issues there. My main concern is how this will effect raid gear in and of itself. It almost seems like, once this new system is in place, raid gear will be little more than temporary containers holding mods until you can rip them out and put them into orange gear. Unless there is a way to graft an augment slot onto raid gear, then it will always be inferior to whatever orange armor you can find, so long as the orange armor has an augment slot. This will lead to no one ever using the raid armor styles, because the only way to "max out" your character will be to butcher your raid gear for its mods. How do you plan on keeping end-game, unique looks/styles in the game? Will orange versions of these looks drop in raids for crafters to make? If not, why even have armor/weapons drop at all? Why not just make it so that unique mods drop in their place? __________________________________________ Finally, here are some recommendations on how to make each crafting skill unique. ARMSTECH +Can craft their array of orange weapons with the chance of augment slots. +New item added to the game: temporary weapon buffs. These buffs add limited procs to your weapon, perhaps giving them a chance to do more damage when you attack with the weapon, or giving you a chance to activate an effect when you cast a spell/ability while the weapon is equipped. These procs are limited use, and once they run out, you must apply the buff to your weapon again. +Make it so Armstech crafters can create BOP buffs for themselves (see above) that are the same effectiveness as BOE weapon buffs, but infinitely reusable. +Ability to craft BOP item that forces an augment slot onto any weapon (of the types they can create) that doesn't already have one. Doing so makes the item bound to the crafter. This will let an armstech crafter not have to worry about critting when crafting gear for themselves, only when dealing with gear they craft for other players. +More unique-looking items that are BOP, to help Armstech crafters stand out. +Ability to craft orange shotguns/vibroknives, with a chance of augments. ARTIFICE +See Armstech. The perks would be similar, though they would only apply to the items that Artificers can make, obviously. +More unique shades of readily available color crystals. While things like magenta/purple/white/black/etc. should still be unique and hard to come by, varying shades of the "normal" colors should be available to create. So you could have light blue, blue, dark blue, light red, red, crimson, etc. +Variety in the stats on crystals. Make it so some crystals could add more unique properties to a weapon that couldn't normally be found on a crystal from a world drop/raid. CYBERTECH +More unique mods with properties and stats that can only be found on crafted versions. +Greater variety in grenades. One grenade should be straight damage, another should apply a slow-ticking dot, another should blind and cause an accuracy debuff, another reduces armor, etc. This way, even though grenades share a cooldown, it makes sense to have a full set of them, because their uses will come in handy in different situations. ARMORMECH/SYNTHWEAVING +More unique styles. +Ability to craft a BOP item that will force an augment slot onto CHEST or LEG items ONLY, making them BOP to the crafter. This puts them on par with the weapon crafters being able to instantly augment their main/offhands. +Armor dyes. There's already a system in place to change the colors of armors (based on the chest piece) that was removed, and there are many different colored versions of armor already in the game. This would let people differentiate themselves a little more. I can't tell you the number of times I've found a cool looking piece of armor, but the only orange "moddable" version of that style was a horrible color. Being able to change it would be fantastic. These colors for these armors are already in the game, it's just that the armor that uses those colors isn't moddable, making them useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptorchid Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What are you guys thinking? These changes will make crited orange gear the most desirable in the game and make filling that gear with mods from the first boss of a given tier possible. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it seems a pretty radical change. Not if the mods from that first boss can only be used in gloves, right? Plus, critted crafted gear SHOULD be the best in the game considering how much time, money, and effort the crafter put in to 1) level the crafting skill, 2) finding the mats, 3) REing to get the best schematic, 4) churning out multiple non-crit items before getting the crit one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belzuba Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Blah, why i just subbed for 3 months... Atleast not like my friend who did for 6 The BW PVP team is a cruel joke.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-ku-u Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 One thing I'm concerned about though is the "reverse engineering better chance" part. I don't think we actually need better chance. We just need some kind of system to optimize reverse engineering. I too am concerned about the "reverse engineering better chance" part, as I don't think we need a better chance. In fact, I think it's too easy as it is, and it provides little useful long term benefit. One of my guildies, better organized than I, had no difficulty keeping himself geared in purple armor (from synthweaving IIRC) he learned from REing as he levelled up. I've had some difficulty, but less than expected, from doing the same with Biochem for the implants and reusables. On the surface, this seems apropos because I, and any of my potential customers, won't be using the non-top-level items for very long, so it makes sense that access to them would be easy. But the access is so easy that there's little expectation for a long term market for the items. When I wanted to craft a blue, level 33, implant for a guildie, I hadn't the recipe for it yet, but it took me all of 10 minutes to craft some greens with mats I had on hand and learn the recipe for the blue. Yes, I was a bit lucky, but my expectation was only half an hour. This indicates to me that differentiation between crafters in the same profession will vanish over time, instead of increase. But it is differentiation, not similarity of products, that drives an economy. Now, I'm aware that the lvl 50 experience with REing is different, since the crafter's skill no longer greatly exceeds the item being RE'd. But if I know that a guildie will eventually progress to learn what I want made and all I have to focus on is acquiring the mats, (even if it's first the mats to help her/him learn), then I'm less likely to search for the item on the general market. Also, the market for found greens and blues already is non-existent in my experience. I never give them attention in the GTN as I level up because I want to maintain, or improve, my appearance as I level up. Making it easier to RE would mean, if I didn't care about appearance, I could more easily find a crafted blue or purple to meet my needs, further depressing the economy for found items. As a final note, for people focussed on appearance (which is good as it's a source of differentiation in desires for the economy), the current RE system is useless. If I find a low level green that I exceptionally enjoy the appearance of, it would be *wonderful* if there was some means (with the help of a willing crafter) to turn that item into something I could use at level 50 (and/or my current level) and preserve its appearance. And given the focussed desire on that one item, it would be entirely appropriate to make it *hard* to do so. Because at the end of all that effort, I'd be well rewarded with the desired appearance. Putting the two ideas together, if RE'ing enabled a crafter, with appropriate effort, to focus her/his attention on useful appearance related items, I think it would be a boon to the economy as it allows crafters to choose the styles they want to market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptorchid Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Finally, here are some recommendations on how to make each crafting skill unique. ARMSTECH +Can craft their array of orange weapons with the chance of augment slots. +New item added to the game: temporary weapon buffs. These buffs add limited procs to your weapon, perhaps giving them a chance to do more damage when you attack with the weapon, or giving you a chance to activate an effect when you cast a spell/ability while the weapon is equipped. These procs are limited use, and once they run out, you must apply the buff to your weapon again. +Make it so Armstech crafters can create BOP buffs for themselves (see above) that are the same effectiveness as BOE weapon buffs, but infinitely reusable. +Ability to craft BOP item that forces an augment slot onto any weapon (of the types they can create) that doesn't already have one. Doing so makes the item bound to the crafter. This will let an armstech crafter not have to worry about critting when crafting gear for themselves, only when dealing with gear they craft for other players. +More unique-looking items that are BOP, to help Armstech crafters stand out. +Ability to craft orange shotguns/vibroknives, with a chance of augments. ARTIFICE +See Armstech. The perks would be similar, though they would only apply to the items that Artificers can make, obviously. +More unique shades of readily available color crystals. While things like magenta/purple/white/black/etc. should still be unique and hard to come by, varying shades of the "normal" colors should be available to create. So you could have light blue, blue, dark blue, light red, red, crimson, etc. +Variety in the stats on crystals. Make it so some crystals could add more unique properties to a weapon that couldn't normally be found on a crystal from a world drop/raid. CYBERTECH +More unique mods with properties and stats that can only be found on crafted versions. +Greater variety in grenades. One grenade should be straight damage, another should apply a slow-ticking dot, another should blind and cause an accuracy debuff, another reduces armor, etc. This way, even though grenades share a cooldown, it makes sense to have a full set of them, because their uses will come in handy in different situations. ARMORMECH/SYNTHWEAVING +More unique styles. +Ability to craft a BOP item that will force an augment slot onto CHEST or LEG items ONLY, making them BOP to the crafter. This puts them on par with the weapon crafters being able to instantly augment their main/offhands. +Armor dyes. There's already a system in place to change the colors of armors (based on the chest piece) that was removed, and there are many different colored versions of armor already in the game. This would let people differentiate themselves a little more. I can't tell you the number of times I've found a cool looking piece of armor, but the only orange "moddable" version of that style was a horrible color. Being able to change it would be fantastic. These colors for these armors are already in the game, it's just that the armor that uses those colors isn't moddable, making them useless. Great ideas, but I think nothing should be BoP for crafters, because I took crafting to make goods that are sought out. What I mean is, if a BoP item is "the best looking" item to someone, I want to be able to sell it to them. Having said that, if they were to implement something like I have bolded, I can definitely agree that items with a "forced augment" should be just for the crafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjiyomi_Jun Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What are you guys thinking? These changes will make crited orange gear the most desirable in the game and make filling that gear with mods from the first boss of a given tier possible. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it seems a pretty radical change. lol what? Your tone is very confusing based on the underlined, but to answer your question, it seems like they are trying to improve the validity of crafting crew skills and press the unique appearances of varies orange gear sets in end game content to avoid. Basically it will boil down to buying tier pieces will not necessarily be for the piece itself but for the "mods" inside it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjiyomi_Jun Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Blah, why i just subbed for 3 months... Atleast not like my friend who did for 6 The BW PVP team is a cruel joke.... Your tears give me strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aricus Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This game is a stun festival, no matter how long are you playing, a few players 50/10 exp/valor rank just won't allow you to move, especially in warzones. And he is worry, because of the nerf of all that progression with battlemaster and experise, so no matter how high valor rank you will have, there will be no difference. So try to look a little further than your own nose, please. the fact that it's a stun fest has nothing to do with pvp gear. That's a CC issue. And so what if he's Valor rank 68, do you need to feel satisfied with gear that improves on stats and makes you stronger than others? I mean what happened to pvp for well pvp? You need to feel rewarded for pvping? Jesus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defdaddy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 great news i knew i shouldnt drop my artifice you guys should make the exotic crafting materials tradable also ( biometric crystal alloys et c.) that would allow ppl to farm and sell them so the crafters that cant farm them (or cant farm as many as they need) are able to obtain them. It would help move a bit the economy cause its quite dead atm considering crafted stuff ( even tho there are loads of recepies that are boe and require those mats) i couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrikkiOne Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Remove the random rewards in PVP, whoever let that pass through to live needs to be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjiyomi_Jun Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I too am concerned about the "reverse engineering better chance" part, as I don't think we need a better chance. In fact, I think it's too easy as it is, and it provides little useful long term benefit. One of my guildies, better organized than I, had no difficulty keeping himself geared in purple armor (from synthweaving IIRC) he learned from REing as he levelled up. I've had some difficulty, but less than expected, from doing the same with Biochem for the implants and reusables. On the surface, this seems apropos because I, and any of my potential customers, won't be using the non-top-level items for very long, so it makes sense that access to them would be easy. But the access is so easy that there's little expectation for a long term market for the items. When I wanted to craft a blue, level 33, implant for a guildie, I hadn't the recipe for it yet, but it took me all of 10 minutes to craft some greens with mats I had on hand and learn the recipe for the blue. Yes, I was a bit lucky, but my expectation was only half an hour. This indicates to me that differentiation between crafters in the same profession will vanish over time, instead of increase. But it is differentiation, not similarity of products, that drives an economy. Now, I'm aware that the lvl 50 experience with REing is different, since the crafter's skill no longer greatly exceeds the item being RE'd. But if I know that a guildie will eventually progress to learn what I want made and all I have to focus on is acquiring the mats, (even if it's first the mats to help her/him learn), then I'm less likely to search for the item on the general market. Also, the market for found greens and blues already is non-existent in my experience. I never give them attention in the GTN as I level up because I want to maintain, or improve, my appearance as I level up. Making it easier to RE would mean, if I didn't care about appearance, I could more easily find a crafted blue or purple to meet my needs, further depressing the economy for found items. As a final note, for people focussed on appearance (which is good as it's a source of differentiation in desires for the economy), the current RE system is useless. If I find a low level green that I exceptionally enjoy the appearance of, it would be *wonderful* if there was some means (with the help of a willing crafter) to turn that item into something I could use at level 50 (and/or my current level) and preserve its appearance. And given the focussed desire on that one item, it would be entirely appropriate to make it *hard* to do so. Because at the end of all that effort, I'd be well rewarded with the desired appearance. Putting the two ideas together, if RE'ing enabled a crafter, with appropriate effort, to focus her/his attention on useful appearance related items, I think it would be a boon to the economy as it allows crafters to choose the styles they want to market. The hole in your logic is that armormech and synthweaving have to work with Prefixes on their gear. They have to RE greens and blues several times to get the possibility of a blue/purple only to then have the possibility of getting the correct prefix on that gear. This leads to those crewskills needing to potentially crit on an RE several times before getting the desired results. This issue does not exist for Biochem because their RE path is linear (green to blue to purple that is just the previous with better stats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czaan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It would be nice for there to be a little blurb in the crafting schematic that says whether or not the particular item you are looking at can be RE'd, and RE'd into what. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjiyomi_Jun Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It would be nice for there to be a little blurb in the crafting schematic that says whether or not the particular item you are looking at can be RE'd, and RE'd into what. Thanks! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=258426 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbbnFlow Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi, better reverse engineering chance Regards Georg All that was great. But this is probably my favorite part. After RE-ing 100ish (I kept a reasonably accurate count) might implants and not getting any purple pattern procs, I just gave up. It became a waste of mats and massive loss in potential profit dollars. Not to mention the time sink. I don't mind working hard for something but just being random and unlucky does not suit me at all. I'd say make RE-ing patterns obtainable, but just not by random chance, but rather by spending the time doing certain things, gathering certain items, finding hidden things in the universe to aid crafting (buffs or items that enhance RE-ing or give a chance to make double or have a few ticks of better stats). Make crafters want to go explore the world because there's something hidden out there, something mysterious that could aid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexster Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) So honestly, nothing is changing for a long while yet. While others can use energized and exotech, the cost to make them hasn't yet be altered so reusable types are still better in the long run. While this is under review, it doesnt change the situation until changes actually happen. TLDR: Dont stop biochem yet, as its still a ways off. edit: and increased boes for other classes doesnt really make them better for a single player to maintain, if you want to keep with the bop mentality you will need to increase these as well. an augment slot =/= the ability to heal or buff yourself at will more or less. Edited February 2, 2012 by Lexster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-ku-u Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The hole in your logic is that armormech and synthweaving have to work with Prefixes on their gear. They have to RE greens and blues several times to get the possibility of a blue/purple only to then have the possibility of getting the correct prefix on that gear. This leads to those crewskills needing to potentially crit on an RE several times before getting the desired results. This issue does not exist for Biochem because their RE path is linear (green to blue to purple that is just the previous with better stats). You misunderstand me. First, I specifically included implants from biochem and synthweaving as a whole, which follow the more complex upgrade path, in my example. I have, and so have my guildies, encountered the issue of needing to RE successfully several times to get the desired item. It's more effort than for the biochem consumables, but it's still not significant effort. Since the point of my argument is the loss of differentiation, even if I had made the oversight you point out, the increased effort you mention wouldn't change my point. Once most crafters can readily make most of, if not all, the useful items, crafters become commodities themselves - interchangeable and meaningless - and that depresses the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningcurse Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) the new 50s that are whining about getting beat down mostly play in random games and don't put in the effort to attempt organized group play. With or without a nerf to pvp gear these players will still get beat down. More importantly, with the upcoming changes to the champion bags the new 50s should be able to buy their gear as long as they accomplish their daily warzone. if they are too lazy to do those then they don't deserve to have a chance in pvp! @ the crafting changes I think the other crafting professions need some buffs now. Edited February 2, 2012 by burningcurse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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