What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

[Yescek]

Well, since Bioware doesn't want people to be honest about what they think, here's the kiddie version.

 

Duels in SWG didn't mean anything.

 

Lolbusting was carebear ****. Way to earn your GCW, baddie.

 

What server were you on? If you say anything other than Bloodfin pre-2010 or Starsider post-2010, you are in no way qualified to comment on PvP in regards to that game.

 

If you don't wanna do the work, go PvE. There was still a gear grind in SWG, or did you foget the Heroic Jewlery? If you didn't have it, you were SORELY gimped.

[Darth__Carnal]

Ultima Online PVP was by far the most fun I've ever had in an MMO.

Even though you could loot your bodies corpse, the main reason to PVP was notoriety and bragging rights.

 

This ^

 

( Oh, how I miss this... )

Edited February 13, 2012 by Darth__Carnal

[Duymon]

Do you know what I see in WZ's all the time?

 

I see a level 50 in greens that are from like level 30-45. I even see some players who don't even wear relics?!?

 

People are too lazy to even get gear for their own level! The reason you can get away with it in th 10-49 bracket is even with crappy gear you will own somebody 10-20 levels below you with ease. But when you hit the 50 bracket, your bolster does nothing for you and your extreme lack of gear shows.

 

PVP is a COMPETITION. Getting at least level 50 gear is part of your PREPARATION.

 

Don't expect to jump into a wz with level 35-45 gear and expect to melt face. You're no up against teen levels anymore

[Yescek]

PVP is a COMPETITION. Getting at least level 50 gear is part of your PREPARATION.

 

Sweet jesus, this. I may kill you because I outgear you, and thats fine. Get off your *** and gear up too, and you'll see the ballgame change dramatically.

 

OP is mad cuz bad.

[Darth__Carnal]

Well, since Bioware doesn't want people to be honest about what they think, here's the kiddie version.

 

Duels in SWG didn't mean anything.

 

Lolbusting was carebear ****. Way to earn your GCW, baddie.

 

What server were you on? If you say anything other than Bloodfin pre-2010 or Starsider post-2010, you are in no way qualified to comment on PvP in regards to that game.

 

If you don't wanna do the work, go PvE. There was still a gear grind in SWG, or did you foget the Heroic Jewlery? If you didn't have it, you were SORELY gimped.

 

When you say SWG, you need to list the time frame..

 

SWG - Pre Cu PvP, is a lot different then any crap that came about post CU or NGE.

 

Killing Jedi with bounties on their heads, as a Bounty Hunter was the best PvP I have ever had outside of Ultima Online.

 

SWG Pre - CU Jedi vs Bounty Hunters

 

Hunting and tracking live players..

 

Fights breaking out spontaneously any where in the world when a Jedi was discovered..

 

Fighting a player that was an alpha class, while you were not..

 

Begin able to take them down due to player thinking, skill, and tactics...

 

Getting paid to do it..

 

Getting notoriety from other players, and Jedi players that learned to fear you because of Jedi exp loss.

 

Man those were good times..

Edited February 13, 2012 by Darth__Carnal

[Torleen]

Well, since Bioware doesn't want people to be honest about what they think, here's the kiddie version.

 

Duels in SWG didn't mean anything.

 

Lolbusting was carebear ****. Way to earn your GCW, baddie.

 

What server were you on? If you say anything other than Bloodfin pre-2010 or Starsider post-2010, you are in no way qualified to comment on PvP in regards to that game.

 

If you don't wanna do the work, go PvE. There was still a gear grind in SWG, or did you foget the Heroic Jewlery? If you didn't have it, you were SORELY gimped.

 

You can be honest and still actually contribute something to a conversation. Profanity and insults do not contribute anything.

 

What server I was on is just as irrelevant as the insults you posted in the post that was deleted.

 

Part of the problem with discussing SWG is the game was around for a very long time. So there were different eras we could be talking about.

 

You say you played that game for a few years. I played since Beta and stuck with it all the way to the end. And PVPed CONSTANTLY. But that alone does not win the argument.

 

This argument is about skill vs gear. I feel (and I am clearly not alone) that the work one puts into becoming skilled in their class and build is the work that should earn someone victory.

 

I also feel (and am equally not alone) that one should not have to volunteer to die for bad players over and over again in "PVP" matches where due to gear disparity no amount of quick thinking or skill will land you a victory. This is patently absurd. And is not entertaining for anyone save the people who managed to get geared first. It is not good for the long term health of PVP in this game. Even the Blizzard Giant admitted that resilience and arena was a bad idea.

 

Heroic jewelry was not something you got by being thrashed over and over and over again by other players who were lucky enough to get gear. And even then, there was no single piece of gear that would give you "auto win" in PVP in SWG other then some DOT weapons, that everyone in the community acknowledged any "wins" gained by using them were not earned. And that nobody who won because of them was "skilled".

 

What we have now, is a new generation of bad PVPers who suggest that they should not have to learn how to PVP to win. They project their own flaws of being "lazy" or feeling "entitled" onto the people who want to see how good they really are.

[Yescek]

You can be honest and still actually contribute something to a conversation. Profanity and insults do not contribute anything.

 

What server I was on is just as irrelevant as the insults you posted in the post that was deleted.

 

Part of the problem with discussing SWG is the game was around for a very long time. So there were different eras we could be talking about.

 

You say you played that game for a few years. I played since Beta and stuck with it all the way to the end. And PVPed CONSTANTLY. But that alone does not win the argument.

 

This argument is about skill vs gear. I feel (and I am clearly not alone) that the work one puts into becoming skilled in their class and build is the work that should earn someone victory.

 

I also feel (and am equally not alone) that one should not have to volunteer to die for bad players over and over again in "PVP" matches where due to gear disparity no amount of quick thinking or skill will land you a victory. This is patently absurd. And is not entertaining for anyone save the people who managed to get geared first. It is not good for the long term health of PVP in this game. Even the Blizzard Giant admitted that resilience and arena was a bad idea.

 

Heroic jewelry was not something you got by being thrashed over and over and over again by other players who were lucky enough to get gear. And even then, there was no single piece of gear that would give you "auto win" in PVP in SWG other then some DOT weapons, that everyone in the community acknowledged any "wins" gained by using them were not earned. And that nobody who won because of them was "skilled".

 

What we have now, is a new generation of bad PVPers who suggest that they should not have to learn how to PVP to win. They project their own flaws of being "lazy" or feeling "entitled" onto the people who want to see how good they really are.

 

People who ***** about the status quo on the forums, whether or not they're forum monkeys, get no sympathy from me. People who post an argument, no matter how well written and thought out, that is irrelevant do not get civility. It has been stated OVER and OVER and OVER that this game is NOT like ANYTHING that SWG was. You're ignoring that, blatantly, because you want SWG pre-CU back. And believe me, I do too. If my own time in SWG is going to come up, it was since Oct. 08, also all the way to the end. If you think i'm any happier about the overall stupidity and thickheadedness in this game than you are you're dead wrong.

 

My point is that you ought to know by now, purely from the standpoint of the action we've seen from Bioware, that this thread is not going to do anything. What you're ultimatly suggesting is a fundamental rebuild of the way PvP works in this game. That is not a reasonable wish, nor is it feasible. More often than not, the gear you seem to hate so much means little compared to the overall teamwork involved. How else could the imperials of my server who are SEVERELY outclassed by the 100% battlemaster Republics on our server occasionally slaughter them? From time to time people pull their heads out, listen, and tactics win the day AS IT STANDS. However, if your team is being a load of jackwagons then no ****, gear will carry the day.

 

And come on, you can't tell me gear didn't matter in SWG. If you were stacking Booster Assembly as a *********** Smuggler then no amount of skill was going to save you, so your skill argument is moot. Unless you 100% REMOVE ALL GEAR from the game, then the argument will ALWAYS be invalid.

 

*Edit: Also, make whatever comments you want about my character, but i'm sick of seeing all the rampant QQ. I, for one, and grateful that we even still HAVE a Star Wars game. Forums are a terrible idea, and I for one would be glad to seem Bioware take them down permanently.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Yescek

[Torleen]

People who ***** about the status quo on the forums, whether or not they're forum monkeys, get no sympathy from me. People who post an argument, no matter how well written and thought out, that is irrelevant do not get civility. It has been stated OVER and OVER and OVER that this game is NOT like ANYTHING that SWG was. You're ignoring that, blatantly, because you want SWG pre-CU back. And believe me, I do too. If my own time in SWG is going to come up, it was since Oct. 08, also all the way to the end. If you think i'm any happier about the overall stupidity and thickheadedness in this game than you are you're dead wrong.

 

My point is that you ought to know by now, purely from the standpoint of the action we've seen from Bioware, that this thread is not going to do anything. What you're ultimatly suggesting is a fundamental rebuild of the way PvP works in this game. That is not a reasonable wish, nor is it feasible. More often than not, the gear you seem to hate so much means little compared to the overall teamwork involved. How else could the imperials of my server who are SEVERELY outclassed by the 100% battlemaster Republics on our server occasionally slaughter them? From time to time people pull their heads out, listen, and tactics win the day AS IT STANDS. However, if your team is being a load of jackwagons then no ****, gear will carry the day.

 

And come on, you can't tell me gear didn't matter in SWG. If you were stacking Booster Assembly as a *********** Smuggler then no amount of skill was going to save you, so your skill argument is moot. Unless you 100% REMOVE ALL GEAR from the game, then the argument will ALWAYS be invalid.

 

*Edit: Also, make whatever comments you want about my character, but i'm sick of seeing all the rampant QQ. I, for one, and grateful that we even still HAVE a Star Wars game. Forums are a terrible idea, and I for one would be glad to seem Bioware take them down permanently.

 

People who have logical points, have no reason not to be civil.

 

It would seem however that your assessment that this thread and those like it will "not do anything" I would say you are in error.

 

 

It is our intention to gradually, over multiple patches, reduce the impact of situational consumables on endgame combat resolution and shift the factors which determine the outcome of combat more towards personal skill. As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Regards

Georg

 

They are also working on changing the system to make the economy more player crafter based. Like it was in SWG. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

 

And finally, just to make this clear it would behoove you not to spend your time trying to make up what the person you are debating with is thinking. I loved SWG, but I have never been under the delusion that this game is going to be SWG. There are actually aspects of many other MMORPGs that I feel would be good here. Including coalitions like in COV, a lot of aspects of DAOC, etc.

 

Now, please stay on topic. The topic is not what you believe I think. It is about the benefits of gear vs skill PVP.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Torleen

[Yescek]

People who have logical points, have no reason not to be civil.

 

It would seem however that your assessment that this thread and those like it will "not do anything" I would say you are in error.

 

 

 

They are also working on changing the system to make the economy more player crafter based. Like it was in SWG. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

 

Ok, so you've won then. And the community as a whole, has won. I was unaware of that thread, else I may have responded differently. My apologies.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Yescek

[Torleen]

Ok, so you've won then. And the community as a whole, has won. I was unaware of that thread, else I may have responded differently. My apologies.

 

No problem man. Apology accepted.

[Yescek]

No problem man. Apology accepted.

 

Still though, I don't know how you'd pull it off. Some shmuck who has 80+ hours a week to play is ALWAYS going to find SOMETHING that gives them an edge over others.

 

Hell, untill it got out, the Pure Shockfrozen Water was a great example of this.

 

By the way, that water kicks so much ***.

[LordSoviet]

the problem is the OP is a baddie and possibly has a life... maybe you should try a different genra of game? if not i heard GW2 caters.. =)

 

i love progression.. and if i gotta get wrecked on the journey there.. so be it.. but then when that journey ends i can stand toe to toe with the other "baddies" and prove skill>gear

 

and also wreck the newer 50s who are busy progressing^.^

[Celebrus]

People that didn't like pvp stats in other games don't like pvp stats in new game.

 

Nothing to see here.

[Torleen]

the problem is the OP is a baddie and possibly has a life... maybe you should try a different genra of game? if not i heard GW2 caters.. =)

 

i love progression.. and if i gotta get wrecked on the journey there.. so be it.. but then when that journey ends i can stand toe to toe with the other "baddies" and prove skill>gear

 

and also wreck the newer 50s who are busy progressing^.^

 

Then you don't like PVP.

[Torleen]

Still though, I don't know how you'd pull it off. Some shmuck who has 80+ hours a week to play is ALWAYS going to find SOMETHING that gives them an edge over others.

 

Hell, untill it got out, the Pure Shockfrozen Water was a great example of this.

 

By the way, that water kicks so much ***.

 

Burps in the system are going to happen. Nothing created by man can be perfect. However it is in striving for perfection that we can at least achieve greatness.

[LordSoviet]

Then you don't like PVP.

 

pvp without progression is empty and pointless

 

unless it had a runescape style like the wilderness. otherwise you will have 15 hour WZ queus. because i promise you no one will play it

 

but i do like the idea of "i keel u i getz u stoof"

[RocNessMonster]

Look at this thread filled with internet tough guys hiding behind gear.

[LordSoviet]

heck.. while we are at it

 

"*** BOIFAIL I DONT EVEN PVE SO WHY THE HELL DO I GOTTA GRIND TO LVL 50 IF THE GEAR AND STATS DONT MATTER

 

AWL I WANT IS TO PVP.. INSTA LVL TO 50 NAO

[Yescek]

the problem is the OP is a baddie and possibly has a life... maybe you should try a different genra of game? if not i heard GW2 caters.. =)

 

i love progression.. and if i gotta get wrecked on the journey there.. so be it.. but then when that journey ends i can stand toe to toe with the other "baddies" and prove skill>gear

 

and also wreck the newer 50s who are busy progressing^.^

 

As much as I agree with you, the OP has a point.

 

You have no idea how awesome it was to roll around, talking to people, and find out that they'd heard of you. I had no clue I had any notoriety at all until this guy named Chalk comes up to me asking for tips saying he'd heard that I was good. He hadn't gotten much help from the forums.

 

The whole thing seems to me to be not a lack of desire to work for something. But the OP is right, in that at the moment endgame gear is the end all be all of PvP and if you don't have it you're boned and there is NO other way to get it. Make whatever argument you want about the PvE gear, that look isn't for everyone aside from the fact that you have to do Ops or you'll be grinding into eternity. Skill is the deciding factor only AFTER you have it. And i'm sure its the same everywhere. Hell, until I got my MJC and my 35's together, I got worked too. You can draw a parallel there. But I was not REQUIRED to get roflstomped to progress it.

 

The OP really is slightly hypocritical by saying that this game is any more grindy than SWG was. The only difference is what you're grinding for and how you're grinding it. In SWG it was credits for any non-jedi, Holocrons AND credits for Jedi. Everyone had to grind the tokens for the Jewelry until that became tradeable (ruined the economy too).

 

The only real difference here is that you're pigeonholed into doing potentially losing PvP in order to create the same end result.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Yescek

[thaals]

I believe the OP has valid observations.

[ursuul]

heck.. while we are at it

 

"*** BOIFAIL I DONT EVEN PVE SO WHY THE HELL DO I GOTTA GRIND TO LVL 50 IF THE GEAR AND STATS DONT MATTER

 

AWL I WANT IS TO PVP.. INSTA LVL TO 50 NAO

 

hmm i wonder if anyone has ever thought this and then made a game? hmm i wonder if that game is well known.... and coming out with a sequal... at a time when many are tired of the current options available.

 

sorry just found it funny that you thought people would find just logging on and playing a crazy idea

[Calei]

pvp without progression is empty and pointless.

 

Depends what kind of progression.

 

GW2 will have leaderboards, personal stats, achievements and realm ranking.

 

Oh yea thats right, realm ranking. Which realm is better? This will create some serious community building on servers. Guilds will merge with other guilds to form super guilds or come together and forge alliances to defeat other realms.

 

I don't need a +1 or +2 on my clown suit. You can keep playing SWTOR for that crap.

[ursuul]

Depends what kind of progression.

 

GW2 will have leaderboards, personal stats, achievements and realm ranking.

 

Oh yea thats right, realm ranking. Which realm is better? This will create some serious community building on servers. Guilds will merge with other guilds to form super guilds or come together and forge alliances to defeat other realms.

 

I don't need a +1 or +2 on my clown suit. You can keep playing SWTOR for that crap.

 

^^^^^^^^

[Razot]

Depends what kind of progression.

 

GW2 will have leaderboards, personal stats, achievements and realm ranking.

 

Oh yea thats right, realm ranking. Which realm is better? This will create some serious community building on servers. Guilds will merge with other guilds to form super guilds or come together and forge alliances to defeat other realms.

 

I don't need a +1 or +2 on my clown suit. You can keep playing SWTOR for that crap.

 

/Bow

 

Agree

[adamastor]

Ultima Online PVP was by far the most fun I've ever had in an MMO.

Even though you could loot your bodies corpse, the main reason to PVP was notoriety and bragging rights.

 

Not a huge fun of the gear but I understand people like farming that kind of stuff at the end game.

 

Sorry for the long post...

 

I'm at SWTOR, comming from WOW, but before WOW I was a Ultima Online player, and men, how I miss those fights; the adrenaline to kill someone and actually take away the loot while your opponents were trying to defend the loot was "epic".

 

My disappointment from WOW (played 3 years) was that you kill someone in world pvp and you get only stupid points that you will use to buy armor. Death guy will ress and start again whatever he was doing. Boring!!!!!

 

In Ultima you were getting loot and respect, the death guy was afraid to meet you again, or he will call friends to spank you.

I never forget the felling to be a noob and thinking "how those guys are skilled", and running like a chicken to avoid fighting, then, loosing countless armor pieces been death, but learning with experience until i became also a good pvp player and cry out loud "I see death people, this is my revenge!!"

 

I understand "Progressing theory" and have to agree with it; but also I dream on a zone were actually you could loot corps; maybe special equipments only usable on that zone that cost money, and some very restricted epic equipments were used on that zone (and you are actually afraid to loose then); (by zone I mean a map, not a stupid arena (box) were you go to fight comparing skill and equipment). sort of a pvp map, without progression. well, just dreaming...

 

Things I loved in Ultima Online:

 

- Even fights, 2 hours or 3 hours with the same opponents, and nobody was leaving the keyboard. one day i loose almost all my equipments, other day i will get my chests without space to deposit my loot.

 

- Houses or other protected areas - when facing more enemies that you could handle, playing mouse / cat until someone made and error; the satisfaction to take a larger number of players with a small party was superb.

 

-Except for equipments from special dungeons, people more or less will fight with similar equipment; you could always bring that special suit with maybe 10% more power, but when you die, you will loose it Risk it's at makes you feel you are alive!!!!

 

- Ressing people during fights, and ability to protect a fallen friend (fighting the income enemies in order to prevent / difficult then to loot your friend's body). Saving someone's belongings or die trying, or run away; decisions that you really had to take and live with your decisions.

 

-Recruting new guild members for our pvp guild, giving then the equipment they need that we have looted, and try to make then better players.

 

 

SWTOR PVP; i'm death, click button, run to battle, meanwhile protect someone only to get medals (even if the guy its not fight at all; enter a acid pit and heal yourself to get medals, (insert other **** trick here to get medals) and see your name at top spot in ending classification), get comendations/ points and gear up; now lets do the same, but with more gear.

 

I need to get really pissed of when I die, and my equipment is going away!

I need to get really mad when my wife calls me to help to open a bottle of wine and I leave my friends outnumbered.

I need to get crazy because my top equipment was looted and now I see that ***** using it to fight me

 

Make me hungry and I'm your slave BIOWARE!