What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

[Delavager]

Didn't know that to enjoy a competitive PvP enviornment I had to work hard for it. Thought the competitive environment was something built into and part of a game, not something you have to work towards

 

Example of What's wrong with many of the world today.

 

Why would you ever have to work for something? Apologies for everything you want not just appearing before your eyes.

[Abiza]

:( Edited February 8, 2012 by Abiza

[CommandoPower]

LOL!

 

.....This your first MMO?

 

This was what the old timers said before gear became an accepted part of PVP, only from the other perspective.

 

Now the jokes on us. What used to be PVP for fun is now PVP for rewards. What used to be PVP in decent gear and you'd be fine in most games is now PVP in X or your probably gonna lose.

 

 

 

I hope you realize the cycle of gear based PVP can only go on so long before people start rejecting the carrot in increasing numbers as they gain MMORPG experience, life experience, and continually must farm in new MMORPG after new MMORPG to be competitive.

 

How long before your tired of the same type of grind in yet another MMORPG you've moved to like a swarm of locusts? How long before your life changes and you no longer have the time required to be competitive?

 

 

You are new. You will learn in time or you'll end up spending your days grinding for gear to "pown scrubs" for the rest of your life with a good chance of being alone. But you've still got your gearz right? Right?

Edited February 8, 2012 by CommandoPower

[CommandoPower]

Marry Me.

 

 

Want no progression? Play a FPS. Improving your character = fun.

 

That's not the case anymore. FPS is also moving increasingly towards progression lol.

[Jebi]

LOL!

 

.....This your first MMO?

 

No, but i'm guessing WOW was yours?

[SingleCoilPickup]

I think it's kind of funny that some of you believe that those who think PVP gear is silly aren't willing to work for things.

 

On a level (gear-free) playing field, you have to work and practice to have SKILL. The way things are now, you have to work and grind and work and grind to get gear so you can basically just spam your basic melee attack and faceroll noobs.

 

I would argue that you gear-heads are the lazy ones because you don't want to actually put real effort into gaining skill, you just want to grind hours and hours to get loot rather than make an effort to improve gameplay. I can sit in warzones AFK and stealthed for a couple of months and end up with Battlemaster and Gear and faceroll noobs too.

Edited February 8, 2012 by SingleCoilPickup

[Abiza]

No, but i'm guessing WOW was yours?

 

 

Very, VERY wrong.

[Tyranoc]

I think it's kind of funny that some of you believe that those who think PVP gear is silly aren't willing to work for things.

 

On a level (gear-free) playing field, you have to work and practice to have SKILL. The way things are now, you have to work and grind and work and grind to get gear so you can basically just spam your basic melee attack and faceroll noobs.

 

I would argue that you gear-heads are the lazy ones because you don't want to actually put real effort into gaining skill, you just want to grind hours and hours to get loot rather than make an effort to improve gameplay. I can sit in warzones AFK and stealthed for a couple of months and end up with Battlemaster and Gear and faceroll noobs too.

 

I'm geared and my rotation consists of 8 - 10 of my abilities depending on the situation/threat...

 

If all you do is spam basic attacks then you dont deserve gear and yo deffinately dont deserve to have anything handed to you. However alot of you cry baby carebears are trying to take the attention off you and put it onthose who are destroying you by saying THEY are in fact the skilless ones because they are geared and gear means you can press 1 button to win.

Truth is if you had any skill in your body you would have some gear by now and know that not the truth. The fact that you have none and think its because EVERYONE ELSE is a noob sorta points that the issue is in fact you being the noob.

[NinjaScroll]

People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

 

Lets really think about what that means.

 

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

 

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

 

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

 

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

 

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

 

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

 

EDIT TO CLEAR UP A MISCONCEPTION: I do not feel that gear should no longer be acquirable through PVP. I feel that gear should be attainable through PVP, and be on par with gear in PVE. And that the advantage gear affords be curbed in PVP across the board. I am not asking for PVE to cause someone to win PVP. Resilience was the wrong answer. Expertise is no better.

 

+1.

 

This post is exactly what I have in mind.

 

+10

 

"Resilience was the wrong answer. Expertise is no better."

[NightHawke]

I hate the fact that I have to farm gear to be competitive in 50 PvP.

 

I dont want to farm gear, I want to have the gear of MY choosing so I can play a RPG character in this MMORPG according to MY concept of him/her.

 

 

I hate being pigeonholed, and wearing that ridiculous smuggler hat irks the dog crap out of me. Well that and my gear is purple/pink. WTH!

[Xerain]

to the op...

 

it teaches us who is bad at max level pvp.

[Calei]

More cries and whimpers from the skilless who can now BUY their gear but still think they should have it given to them for free.

 

No one needs gear as incentive to play a video game. If you do, you need to uninstall the game from your computer and seek medical assistance.

[Calei]

I think it's kind of funny that some of you believe that those who think PVP gear is silly aren't willing to work for things.

 

On a level (gear-free) playing field, you have to work and practice to have SKILL. The way things are now, you have to work and grind and work and grind to get gear so you can basically just spam your basic melee attack and faceroll noobs.

 

I would argue that you gear-heads are the lazy ones because you don't want to actually put real effort into gaining skill, you just want to grind hours and hours to get loot rather than make an effort to improve gameplay. I can sit in warzones AFK and stealthed for a couple of months and end up with Battlemaster and Gear and faceroll noobs too.

 

Gaining skill is far more difficult than gaining gear.

 

I remember practicing in FPS games so much that my skill level could take on 3+ players at a time and defeat them all. This is also possible in MMO's due to the gear system. The gear gap alone in an MMO is what allows 1 player to handle 3+ players and defeat them all. Equal gear makes it very improbable for 1 player to handle and defeat 3 other players.

 

This is the main reason why anyone would defend the gear system.

[Tyranoc]

No one needs gear as incentive to play a video game. If you do, you need to uninstall the game from your computer and seek medical assistance.

 

Obviously they do... Other that or you are not reading the same forums. 90% of these posts state they need incentives/rewards. Simply killing is not enough. So maybe it is YOU who should seek help?

[Dasgruberg]

You're not the only one buddy. My entire guild and many people in other guilds I know are DYING for this game to come out. Realm vs Realm and non-gear based PVP. Oh how I rejoice the thought...

 

Cant wait for it to come out either so the chance for bioware bending backwards for all the whiners is lower, since theyll hopefully reroll GW2 ! good luck and goodbye

[kweassa]

Obviously they do... Other that or you are not reading the same forums. 90% of these posts state they need incentives/rewards. Simply killing is not enough. So maybe it is YOU who should seek help?

 

Numbers don't dictate what's right or wrong. The only thing that proves is there are a lot of people who hardly relish and enjoy PvP as it is, and they need a candy or a cookie to get themselves going.

 

Now, attending to these majority of people is not necessarily a bad thing, but the problem is the folk who PvP to farm gear or items, only PvP for that specific purpose. Giving them unlimited supply of constantly new, higher grade, better spec gear ultimately hurts the game in a very serious matter which I'd like to call, "power inflation".

 

Gears should influence the outcome of the game somewhat, but it should never be so powerful as to solely determine an outcome of a fight. When the overall level of gear starts to crawl up, the less and less 'skill' become important, and in the end the game basically degrades down to a pure-spec, performance steamrolling.

 

The influence of items has to halt at some point, and that means, the constant 'need' to get a new piece of overpowered T-shirts is going to stop at some point as well.

 

And when that time comes, where are the "I only PvP for rewards" people going to go?

 

Yes, they are the majority, but that only means they are like a flock of sheep or cows who follow the grazing paths, oblivious of whether there's a cliff over the next mound or not.

[GatorSixCharlie]

Cant wait for it to come out either so the chance for bioware bending backwards for all the whiners is lower, since theyll hopefully reroll GW2 ! good luck and goodbye

 

Amen, this thread is a joke... no way to make these people happy... the sooner they leave the better...

[Spero-Mcgee]

You do realise if too many people leave for whatever reason may have, the servers will become even more empty than they already are?

Then the people who stuck will feel, damn there arent enough people to play with.

Either theyll think over am I going to lvl 4 chars again of the same faction on another server or will I just quit till servers get merged or free transfers are coming up?

That or people will completely switch from being a rep to a imp and vice versa (not per se on the same server as their orginal one) and give that a shot.

Exile crystal rep side is mostly empty on alot of the planets. Doing some of the heroic 2+ is quite doable solo but all the heroic 4+ have to be skipped. Unless youre in a guild with a reasonable amount of active people and all of diverse roles (not just dps) you're in a good position to enjoy the mmo part of this game. Else it's either pvp like silly or roll an alt assumming you're not already doing that.

[Torleen]

Numbers don't dictate what's right or wrong. The only thing that proves is there are a lot of people who hardly relish and enjoy PvP as it is, and they need a candy or a cookie to get themselves going.

 

Now, attending to these majority of people is not necessarily a bad thing, but the problem is the folk who PvP to farm gear or items, only PvP for that specific purpose. Giving them unlimited supply of constantly new, higher grade, better spec gear ultimately hurts the game in a very serious matter which I'd like to call, "power inflation".

 

Gears should influence the outcome of the game somewhat, but it should never be so powerful as to solely determine an outcome of a fight. When the overall level of gear starts to crawl up, the less and less 'skill' become important, and in the end the game basically degrades down to a pure-spec, performance steamrolling.

 

The influence of items has to halt at some point, and that means, the constant 'need' to get a new piece of overpowered T-shirts is going to stop at some point as well.

 

And when that time comes, where are the "I only PvP for rewards" people going to go?

 

Yes, they are the majority, but that only means they are like a flock of sheep or cows who follow the grazing paths, oblivious of whether there's a cliff over the next mound or not.

 

Well said.

[Torleen]

This was what the old timers said before gear became an accepted part of PVP, only from the other perspective.

 

Now the jokes on us. What used to be PVP for fun is now PVP for rewards. What used to be PVP in decent gear and you'd be fine in most games is now PVP in X or your probably gonna lose.

 

 

 

I hope you realize the cycle of gear based PVP can only go on so long before people start rejecting the carrot in increasing numbers as they gain MMORPG experience, life experience, and continually must farm in new MMORPG after new MMORPG to be competitive.

 

How long before your tired of the same type of grind in yet another MMORPG you've moved to like a swarm of locusts? How long before your life changes and you no longer have the time required to be competitive?

 

 

You are new. You will learn in time or you'll end up spending your days grinding for gear to "pown scrubs" for the rest of your life with a good chance of being alone. But you've still got your gearz right? Right?

 

The thing that is odd about this is that they call us lazy, as if there is no work involved in skill based PVP. I spent hours practicing with my friends to be in the top five duelists on my server in SWG. But that's the kind of work that is entertaining while you are working. Suggesting that to be "good" at PVP you have to volunteer to be slaughtered by people with no lives over and over again is ridiculous. Being good at PVP in a game where gear is not so over the top requires diligent work on your build, your rotation and play style. Your timing, reflexes etc.

 

What is even more funny is these people who claim that people who do not want to grind gear are "bad" players.

 

In order to be "good" at something or "bad" at something there needs to be some sort of requirement for skill. Suggesting that because you did more grinding then someone else means you are "better" then them is so illogical. It is what I would call mentally lazy. These people want to the illusion of superiority granted to them when all they have to do is hit a few buttons and win. This generation of PVPers seems to be a bastard child of bad PVPers from before who want to utilize PVE mechanics to "win" at PVP. (Which is again ironic, as they generally for some reason try go say that people who suggest that gear should not have an impact on PVP are "carebears" who need to go "back to a PVE server".

 

PVP is PLAYER vs PLAYER. If you really think that you want to be measured for your ability to waste time more then someone else rather then being able to overcome them with quick thinking and strategy then you should really re-evaluate what you believe makes you "good" or "elite".

 

The wins you get when you know you outsmarted your opponent are SOOOO much more satisfying then wins that came because someone could not significantly damage you.

[Torleen]

Gaining skill is far more difficult than gaining gear.

 

I remember practicing in FPS games so much that my skill level could take on 3+ players at a time and defeat them all. This is also possible in MMO's due to the gear system. The gear gap alone in an MMO is what allows 1 player to handle 3+ players and defeat them all. Equal gear makes it very improbable for 1 player to handle and defeat 3 other players.

 

This is the main reason why anyone would defend the gear system.

 

Agreed.

 

And "defeat" is a term you use loosely at that point. Because while you are technically standing over their bodies, it comes back to the analogy I gave earlier of the couch potato with a gun "defeating" the 5th degree black belt in "combat".

[unclekaula]

Ultima Online PVP was by far the most fun I've ever had in an MMO.

Even though you could loot your bodies corpse, the main reason to PVP was notoriety and bragging rights.

 

Not a huge fun of the gear but I understand people like farming that kind of stuff at the end game.

 

The gear gap with fresh 50 and bm 50s is nowhere near the gap between a 5x120 legendary UO player and a GM. 120parry/wrestling and a GM melee wouldnt come close to hurting me... being completely naked.

 

How is farming gear any different than going 120 in a skill in UO? You're grinding it out for hours at a time (assuming you dont exploit)

Edited February 13, 2012 by unclekaula

[Dahoff]

I love how those of us who have PVP gear have "no life"... PVP gear is so easy to get. Do your dailies and weeklies, you'll be one of us "no lifers" in a few weeks.

[Torleen]

More cries and whimpers from the skilless who can now BUY their gear but still think they should have it given to them for free.

 

I know this argument was over some time ago. (With you losing) but I find myself morbidly curious, kind of like watching a train wreck. So I will ask you again.

 

You suggest that people who want skill based PVP with no gear advantage are "skilless". Can you please explain rationally how your logic is supposed to work?

 

We are suggesting that skill should be THE deciding factor. And you are suggesting that it requires skill to PVP in the environment where some code on your gear can cause you to win even if your opponent is more skilled then you.

 

I know you were hoping you could just kind of make fun of people and insult them and repeat this failed logic over and over again and we would just go away, but I am afraid that is not going to work as well as you think. I am no stranger to trolls trying to dumb down a conversation to a level they can articulate by trying to distract the audience with insults and personal attacks. But it's logically fallacious. It's called ad hominem.

 

Lets break this down into very simple terms.

 

If we are running the 100 meter dash, and you start on the 50 meter line, while everyone else started at the 100 meter line, did you win because you were more "skilled"? Have you proven to be a more successful runner in this situation?

 

When you get the medal and stand on the podium, would it not be kind of ridiculous for you to then spit on the people who actually had to work to get 2cd and 3rd place and call them "scrubs" because if they had mindlessly clicked more buttons at a computer as you had then they would be "better" runners and get to start at the 50 meter line too?

 

You can continue to repeat yourself. (And now you are not even bothering to try and argue, because your point is indefensible and you know it. So you are resorting to what bad politicians and schoolyard bullies have to do when they feel insecure because someone is clearly making them look foolish through logic.) You can continue to hope that if you call the people making real points against you enough names that nobody will listen to them. But you will not be "right". And anyone foolish enough to discount someone else's arguments solely because you called them a "scrub" is just as foolish.

 

So, answer this basic point. How does starting at the 50 meter in the 100 meter dash make you a "better" runner?

 

And if you were "better" why did you need the advantage?

 

This is kind of basic logic. And calling me names to try and "win" this debate is not logical.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Torleen

[Torleen]

tyranoc you just dont get it do you, i am a skilled player and you are not, you only have gear.

 

i am a skilled player with full orange gear i obtained from completing voss and corellia quests and my L46 weapon is my only pvp piece , i am pro twitch gamer and own in counterstrike and cod, but this game is all about gear and not about skill at all.

 

my guildies and and I were owning all warzones at lvl 10-49, we were always getting 10+ medals, after owning everyone and everything we all dinged 50 together, we are skillful because we are always together in vent and keep telling each other that we are pro and dont need pvp gear to be good. however my first warzone at 50 changed my mind about this game.

 

My first 50 warzone was civil war. my team and I went to ninja the other teams turret. The turret was guarded by an unskilled baddie in full battlemaster gear, he managed to kill 3 of us because of his op gear, because of my skill I managed to escape back to the middle, this noob doesn't bother chasing me and stays at the node, therefore it means he was scared of me I have more skill than than him and it was just his pvp gear that carried him, in other words i am the winner.

 

i will keep blaming the gear disparity and cry on forums, i will petition bioware to have expertise removed from all gear so that I will dont fail a 4v1 again.

 

But they would just say your problem is a lack of skill. Because clearly someone surviving four people pounding on them had nothing to do with them taking no damage from you and inflicting more damage on you.

 

The PVP community has been hijacked by people who believe that they should be able to use PVE mechanics (grinding) to somehow "earn" the right to have such victories HANDED to them.

 

Meanwhile, they somehow manage to suggest that everyone else who suggests that such things should not happen want things handed to them instead. Which is asinine.