Got an email off Bioware this morning

[Scritty]

Asking me what I thought of the game. SO I sat, and thought. I hadn't done that since release. I realized (and was midly surprised when I realized) that I hadn't played it much in January. SAO I spent an hour writing the post (below) saying I would stick until April - then 20 minutes after replying I realized I wouldn't.

My idea was to cancel my sub (I have paid up until April 20th) and If I play or feel inclined to go back into the game between now and then, re-activate it. Sort of just changing my default mind set to "cancelled"

After waiting so darn long for SWTOR I almost sobbed. Even 10 days ago I thought I would be playing this game for years.

 

Hi,

 

Sad to say, I'm not really enjoying SWTOR at the moment. The buzz wore off very quickly (a few days) and I'm left with quite a hollow feeling towards ther experience. Here's why that is (for me at least);

 

Storyline

The story for Jedi Consellor is a little repetative

 

Go to planet one - then do the following;

Quest line to find and help Jedi Master with disease

Quest line to help locals with group of "insurgents" or "imperial agents"

 

..when finished..Goto planet two and start again.

 

UI

The user interface hinders me a little, nothing is where I would find it intuitively. I find myself healing a recently beaten mob rather than my companion sometimes, all sorts of things I don't like about the interface (it's too BIG for a start - it's like a 5 year old child's toy) Really needs to be customizable.

 

Character customization.

 

CC seems underdeveloped. I am very limited in what I can wear, and despite buying new items every few levels my character's "look" is more or less unaltered. I see other JC's running around, and they all like just like me. I don't feel like a hero, or even an individual, I feel like "Jedi Counsellor Clone 3354b"

 

Crafting

 

Crafting is dull. I can craft a whole list of virtually identical mods for armour and weapons. They all look the same, and no-one (not even me) can find any use for them. I can stick them on the the trade for 500 credits an no-one wants them

"xxxxx mod 9" looks exactly the same as

"xxxxxx mod 8"..... and despite keeping my crafting up with my character levelling, I have yet to find an item I craft that I actually have a use for myself - i.e is even marginally better than a mob drop I have already found or someone else has found and put on the Gal trade network.

 

Crafting itself is uninvolved. It's not a sub game, it's not a challenge, What it is is being interrupted during combat when one of your companions comes back and sats "Here's your stuff" and just pressing "Make this" or "go there".

The only slight interaction I have is to ensure that I have enough of the vendor sold re-agents in stock or storage. There are these descriptions of the missions your companion is oging on "Visit a deserted spacecraft and see if they have XXXXX" but after the first five goes... you just press the button

 

That is 100% of your crafting experience in a nutshell..press a button to send a companion off.... wait 20 minutes till he or she comes back....then press it again.

 

Trading

 

Should be interesting. But it's not. There is not enough data to make informed stock choices or to "play the market". I perhaps spend 40% of my solo time at end level in other MMO's playing the market. It's great fun. Sure EvE and some other games (PotBS) have really good involved economics tied in with harvesting and crafting, but even WoW, Aion, Rift and FFXI have a fun factor. X-faction trading, storage and logistics etc.SWTOR has none of this, or at best very stunted and unerdeveloped trade and trading tools.

 

Community

 

Grouping takes so long, and with so few people looking to run any particular flashpoint or heroic, I have just given up on it. I am planning to give multi (or at least dual) boxing a try, as the lack of community means I am missing so much of the content I might well enjoy - I might buy a standard retail copy and give it a go for a month. But eventually I see me leaving SWTOR in a few months for a game with more scope (more involved trading and commercial aspects, better and more involved crafting)

 

At the moment there is not enough depth to make the game a stayer for me. I can quite happily solo while a community builds up, but all I'm doing is grinding quests. No secondary professions, dull crafting, dull trading and awkward interface, coupled with a plot line (for JC's at least) which just seems to be an endless repeat of the same tasks - just with the level numbers changed. If I have to "Save another Jedi Grand Master" ...Arrrggggghhhh!

 

 

I understand SWTOR is a "theme park" and I have no issue with that. WoW is a theme park, Aion is a theme park, FFXI is a theme park I love those games. But they seem to have a lot more "rides" than SWTOR.

With a real lack of involvement and depth in crafting, trading, sub professions etc, SWTOR is like a theme park with one ride..levelling.

 

Summary

 

• Group finding (Flashpoints and Heroics being missed due to no groups and very few flagged as LFG)
  
• GUI customization (lack of) Poor GUI, targets, etc all in fixed and none intuitive places
  
• Professions (dull, uninvolving "click button - wait - click again")
  
• No "Extra" professions to kill time when soloing. As you don't even craft personally. If your not levelling - your doing nothing - and that's not good at all.
  
• Trade Network (dull, no incentive for engrossing trading/stock play - no economic tools)
  
• JC plot line repetiton (Save Jedi Grand Master, goto planet two - rinse and repeat)
  
• CHARACTER APPEARANCE CUSTOMIZATION (Limited in what I can buy - and no matter what I DO buy I end up looking 99% the same)
  

 

 

You'll see from my stats that I'm playing less and less. I'm hoping for big news on improvement soon. Story alone is not going to make up for lack of varied gameplay elements. And I'm not that impressed with the story (for JC at least)

I'm paid up till mid April, and sadly I think that will probably be the end of my time with SWTOR unless there are really big improvements. ESSP with more involved and varied gameplay elements added.

 

I expect you'll get more money from me though. Mass Effect 3 in a few weeks etc.

I'm not sure MMO's are going to be your strong point though. Too much emphasis on story and not near enough "game" to go with it.

 

Scritty

Edited January 31, 2012 by Scritty

[beyd]

look I'm not gonna grammar Nazi you here, however i worry that you are judging the game solely on Jedi consular. I know it sucks, give empire a try especially agent.

[Jack_Deth]

look I'm not gonna grammar Nazi you here, however i worry that you are judging the game solely on Jedi consular. I know it sucks, give empire a try especially agent.

 

Yes, the Consular story is a bit of a snoozefest, better than any MMOs story (none have a story) but is my least favorite of all the class stories.

[Vitellius]

Bit of a mixed bag there. Some won't be changed. Some will be fixed. Some are minor. Some is just your opinion. Some are legit.

 

There have been missteps for sure. BW biggest problem is that gamers are much more savvy and less forgiving of MMOs these days. Thanks in part to WoW, but WoW isn't entirely to blame.

 

All I can say is cancel and check it out in the future. Sorry you're not having a good time. Personally, i'm enjoying myself and eagerly await incoming improvements and features.

[pjskull]

I actually agree with all your points and want to congratulate you for a critical post that still comes across as constructive.

 

I think where I differ from you is the *degree* to which I find all the items substandard. I am still enjoying the game, but agree the items you list all need work. I don't have any immediate plans to cancel, however. I am enjoying playing very much still.

 

I am hopeful that the UI revamp will allow windows to be moved, a 3rd row bottom, etc. I am also very hopeful for a GTN overhaul at the same time.

 

I think crafting is way off from an engaging, diverting enterprise. It's just a time and money sink currently, with some cosmetic aspects as a side benefit. I am one of those people that enjoy EVE and SWG for the fact that you can craft as a big part of playing your game. I think becoming a "business person" should be an option for any AAA title released these days.

 

I also feel that space is a poor element in the game as well. I played it initially, upgraded my ship, and last night I was thinking to myself, I just hit Lvl 49... and the last time I was in space I was 25 or so. Space, as it works now, just gets very boring, very fast. It needs full 3D, PVP enabled, crafting involved space.

 

It's interesting, because some of the loudest complaints seem to be about optimization issues: lag, ability delay, textures, etc. These are technical issues, not design issues.

 

My biggest issues are game design issues: crafting, space, etc. These will require complete overhauls... not quick fixes.

 

Again, I am enjoying the game, I am hitting endgame now, so I may change my tune once I am grinding Ilum. I have PVP'd WZ's quite a bit and enjoy them, if a little repetitive.

 

Anyway, thank you for your well sounded out post. I will be here until I don't enjoy playing any more and I am hoping that some good changes come down the pike soon from BW.

 

Edit:

 

Re-read your post after mine came up, and I want to say, I agree with you on Repub appearance. They should add some new looks for your side (I am a lvl 49 Sniper with many alts, lol). And when they redo/add looks for your side, the lead designer needs to say to his/her team, "Give me 25 new looks and don't use any effing brown in them." What is it with Jedi and brown in this game? Bunch of UPS guys waving rave sticks.

Edited January 31, 2012 by pjskull

[Sparklehorse]

You could have just posted the summary.

 

You would still be wrong of course but then people wouldn't have to feel bad about ignoring the rest of the post.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Sparklehorse

[Brzytwa]

start playing Rift and GW2 when come. there you can find all those things atm and fun is much much better than in this garbage..

 

.. trial doesn't cost. have fun.

 

BTW. I wonder why TOR doesn't have trial like every other MMO? cash will not flow properly?

[Squallalaha]

Bye .

[WutsInAName]

I actually agree with all your points and want to congratulate you for a critical post that still comes across as constructive.

 

I think where I differ from you is the *degree* to which I find all the items substandard. I am still enjoying the game, but agree the items you list all need work. I don't have any immediate plans to cancel, however. I am enjoying playing very much still.

 

I am hopeful that the UI revamp will allow windows to be moved, a 3rd row bottom, etc. I am also very hopeful for a GTN overhaul at the same time.

 

I think crafting is way off from an engaging, diverting enterprise. It's just a time and money sink currently, with some cosmetic aspects as a side benefit. I am one of those people that enjoy EVE and SWG for the fact that you can craft as a big part of playing your game. I think becoming a "business person" should be an option for any AAA title released these days.

 

I also feel that space is a poor element in the game as well. I played it initially, upgraded my ship, and last night I was thinking to myself, I just hit Lvl 49... and the last time I was in space I was 25 or so. Space, as it works now, just gets very boring, very fast. It needs full 3D, PVP enabled, crafting involved space.

 

It's interesting, because some of the loudest complaints seem to be about optimization issues: lag, ability delay, textures, etc. These are technical issues, not design issues.

 

My biggest issues are game design issues: crafting, space, etc. These will require complete overhauls... not quick fixes.

 

Again, I am enjoying the game, I am hitting endgame now, so I may change my tune once I am grinding Ilum. I have PVP'd WZ's quite a bit and enjoy them, if a little repetitive.

 

Anyway, thank you for your well sounded out post. I will be here until I don't enjoy playing any more and I am hoping that some good changes come down the pike soon from BW.

 

Edit:

 

Re-read your post after mine came up, and I want to say, I agree with you on Repub appearance. They should add some new looks for your side (I am a lvl 49 Sniper with many alts, lol). And when they redo/add looks for your side, the lead designer needs to say to his/her team, "Give me 25 new looks and don't use any effing brown in them." What is it with Jedi and brown in this game? Bunch of UPS guys waving rave sticks.

 

I said it over a year ago and this just repeats everything it meant.

 

If you spent too much effort and story and VO you will detract from every other aspect of the gameplay, which is exactly what this fellow is finding.

Edited January 31, 2012 by WutsInAName

[bhillegass]

Sorry you aren't enjoying yourself, but I appreciate your constructive but not negative post. I am having an amazing time in game and feel bad if not everyone likes it. Keep your eye on this one though, there's so much room for content, races, etc... Hope to see you back again.

[Rasticles]

look I'm not gonna grammar Nazi you here, however i worry that you are judging the game solely on Jedi consular. I know it sucks, give empire a try especially agent.

 

Yeah, that fixes everything....especially the pop imbalances.......

[Scritty]

First of all - thanks for the positive replies.

I was expecting to get flamed to kingdom come.

 

I'm still a player - I'm paid up till mid April.

I have an Imperial player (Frostclaw) the guild I was on pre-launch dissolved on launch day as many players faced with all night queues just re-rolled on other servers. Not an issue.

 

I didn't add the emptiness of being a Republic player. I may go back and give Imperial another go.

I have had zero technical issues with the game. Excellent frame rates etc, but my PC is well over spec (2500k running at 4.4gig, Nvidia 590 and 8 gigs of ram and OCZ SSD 160 gig just for this game) so maybe that's why It's not been a problem.

 

I'm really pretty desparate for this game to work. All the other games someone mentioned I've played. I'm almost 45 and have been playing MMO's since graphical MUD in 1988 on my University's server (4 hours play a week - server time was rationed and play was pretty much frowned upon, however the game was played by a lot of the lecturers and used for stress testing the network, so we got away with it)

 

I think depth can maybe be added. Better crafting, better trading (not "sandbox" depth - just as deep as your average theme park MMO would do for me.) and some level of customization that actually made your character look different.

 

Thanks again for the replies - it is appreciated.

[Kalfear]

You realize they cant fix the community and this going to be a issue in every single new MMORPG.

 

Its not that players more savy now (dont you love when people compliment themselves for no reason at all?), Real Time Chat has ruined MMORPG community and as long as players run that while playing, its always going to.

 

I mean Bioware could do more sure. But they seem pretty lackluster on immersion and community issues, so I wouldnt hold my breath.

 

DDO had a good idea of groups have a ingame voice chat mechanic so at least pug groups would speak to each other but that doesnt address the greater issue of the cworld community not being there or active.

 

Sadly this is going to be the story for all MMORPGs until a technology change makes programs like Vent and Team Speak and Skyp and others obsolete (but I dont forsee that happening any time soon).

 

And as a extention this is also the grouping issue.

 

LFD mechanic not going to fix this because people are not looking for groups outside their guilds.

 

Its funny really. Everyone yells for more openness yet those same players do everything in their power to CLOSE and shrink the enviroment and community around them.

 

I agree with some of your comments but these 2 are a modern day MMORPG issue, not just a TOR issue.

 

I honestly didnt even think of it in beta because vent and what not wasnt allowed so in beta we did have communities and interaction and lively chats and thus we had grouping and what not.

 

the difference between beta and retail is in Retail, these players turn on vent and turn off chat (in many cases they turn all chat off period).

[Hobnobb]

A lot of people do not share your negative views of the game.

 

8.32 out of 10 based on 5196 user ratings

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=259406

[Scritty]

Sadly this is going to be the story for all MMORPGs until a technology change makes programs like Vent and Team Speak and Skyp and others obsolete (but I dont forsee that happening any time soon).

....

I honestly didnt even think of it in beta because vent and what not wasnt allowed so in beta we did have communities and interaction and lively chats and thus we had grouping and what not.

 

the difference between beta and retail is in Retail, these players turn on vent and turn off chat (in many cases they turn all chat off period).

 

Ah - maybe that's what it is.

I have children who are in bed at 8:00pm, so talking in anything other than a whisper is not an option for me after this time. Typing (keyboard clatter) is fine, but yelling down a mic at someone during a Flashpoint or Heroic would see me in hot water PDQ.

 

I'm went back to my Imperial after the advice given here, it's not bad (SWTOR isn't a bad game after all) but I can't find a guild at all. The game is a month old and it seems everyone has already "put the shutters up".

 

You see the area you are in "Tatooine" let's say, then it says there are 94 people in this area, then you notice that the chat channel is dead. Maybe one message every 15 minutes, sometimes not that.

 

I put out "anyone looking for a guild member" and I don't even get a reply...ever.

 

That's just dis-heartening

 

So your post about everyone "mic'ed up" might be right. That's a real shame. Oh well. Either that or I stink.....

 

Scritty

[Scritty]

A lot of people do not share your negative views of the game.

 

8.32 out of 10 based on 5196 user ratings

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=259406

 

No - I realize that.

Not sure what your point is though.

How does that relate to the issues in this thread?

[Gankdalf_]

Bye .

 

SWTOR has lost huge ammounts of players and if this continues there is a danger the game may be written off and development costs cut. It's in crisis at the moment, maybe you should wake up and look at how much EA are worried.

 

6 weeks on and we have:

 

Loads of low population servers

Emails asking people to come back

Emails asking why they left

Emails asking for feedback

EA shares going down

Meetings in Arizona for players to chat to Devs about what went wrong and how to fix

Patches every few days in a bit to stop the people leaving

Servers going from full to standard in 2 weeks

Big game review sites giving it a 9 when nearly every player review is a 5 (backhanders?)

End game pvp utterly broken

Ability delay still broken after 6 months (yes this was mentioned in Beta)

Many other long term bugs still present

An MMO where you can go hours and hours without actually seeing another player

 

 

The whole thing is in crisis, ofc as a fan boy you can bury your head in the sand if you like and pretend I just made all that up.

[Heliotic]

After waiting so darn long for SWTOR I almost sobbed

 

There is no video game that is going to fill that empty hole in your life.

 

You should consider counselling.

[Undescribable]

I really enjoyed your post. You basically said everything that I was thinking (but couldn't put into words) I know how ya feel. I really want this game to work out. My partner and I have have talked about it in great length, and we both feel like the game was launched too soon.

 

Until I real your post, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but you nailed it. For one, I'm a crafter to a fault. The last two MMO's that I played I spent the majority of my time crafting.

 

I do want to say that the IA DOES have a pretty catchy quest line. However, that being said, my quest line is all bugged out, so I can't even finish it.

 

My biggest fear is that by the time BW makes the changes to the game, many people will have moved on and stopped playing. I would love to be one of the players that says "Ha! you think that's bad now?? you should have seen it at launch! I'm not ready to give up. Like you, I'm still holding on. I sure how they make some of the changes that you mentioned though.

[Scritty]

Big game review sites giving it a 9 when nearly every player review is a 5 (backhanders?)

End game pvp utterly broken

 

Just went on Metacritic and noticed the disparity. Huge from review platforms, very poor from users

I'm not "au fait" with Metacritic though, maybe it can be gamed one way or the other. But a difference like that must havce a reason?

[Drake_Hound]

Yes, the Consular story is a bit of a snoozefest, better than any MMOs story (none have a story) but is my least favorite of all the class stories.

 

The problem is all republic side are boring >.<

 

Unless you play evil devious greedy Jedi , then the plot thickens and sometimes you have to do good things to please the stupid companion !

( I just dismiss it or send it on a mission while I do my evil deeds)

 

Honestly after playing Empire and Republic to 50 , I must say REPUBLIC blows big time , in story and main planet plots .

You hardly get identified with your toon , unless you go evil route and snicker at all the goody goodies around .

 

While empire side , simply seems much more logical in doing good or evil things .

[thomasgallant]

Just went on Metacritic and noticed the disparity. Huge from review platforms, very poor from users

I'm not "au fait" with Metacritic though, maybe it can be gamed one way or the other. But a difference like that must havce a reason?

 

the same reason there is a huge dispartity in the reviews on the threads here..

 

 

differnet people like different things.. often the people who hate the game give it negative reviews while others dont bother to review.. personally i love hte game but i dont feel the need to review it on every site saying so..

 

 

people need to ignore the reviews try the game and decide yourself if you like it or not enough to play it.

[gaalon]

Yes, the Consular story is a bit of a snoozefest, better than any MMOs story (none have a story) but is my least favorite of all the class stories.

 

Sure they have a story... You were just to lazy to read it.

 

Unless you play evil devious greedy Jedi , then the plot thickens and sometimes you have to do good things to please the stupid companion !

( I just dismiss it or send it on a mission while I do my evil deeds)

 

Sorry but this is a common misconception. Your choices don't make any real difference. In very rare cases you have to fight someone instead of helping them etc. but once you complete that quest the following quest-line is totally unchanged. None of your actions have any consequences. If you play the game and always press "1" in all conversations then you'll end up at exactly the same place with the same quests etc. as if you played the game and always chose "2" in all conversations.

 

The choices only appear to be choices - they actually don't do anything. This pretty much destroyed all the re-play value of this game.

 

I played 3 characters to level 32 before deciding which would become my main (Operative, Merc and Sorc) and the actual quests and objectives are 99% identical. The differences are so tiny that it really doesn't motivate me to grind through all the content again. It's always go to planet 1, go to area 1, go to area 2, go to area 3, go back to your ship, go back to planet 1, go back to your ship, go back to planet 2, go back to your ship, go to planet 4 etc.etc. with no real variation. Sure, you're going to planet 1, 2 and 3 for different reasons (story-wise) but you do pretty much the same stuff with each class (especially because the side quests make up 95% of the questing content and they are unchanged).

Edited February 2, 2012 by gaalon

[Caldurjyoh]

And once more the fanboys piss all over a very nice, well articulated post just cause it threatens (or fear it does) the game they love :S

 

Oh well, OP you did a great job and i wish BW would read your post and do consider your points and how to counter for them.

 

I also wished the game would succeed. I love Star Wars and was hoping this would have been a game to stay in for the next many years to come.

[Scritty]

Sure they have a story... You were just to lazy to read it.

 

I watched it (not read it..it's all voiced remember)

 

It's the same every planet I go to

 

 

 

"Jedi master has gone missing, he went off to do something or other, now we hear reports he's acting strange...but he's such a good man, please investigate"

 

So you do, and he has a mind plague, so you fight his minions, and "shield him". Then he thanks you, then you hear from the Jedi Council that another JM has been acting strange, so you go to planet number 2 and repeat the exact same story line again.

 

 

 

I'm level 32 JC, and that's all I've done so far. Have I missed something?