This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Jerro]

They may be in game but they are not condoned. The use of a gaming keyboard's macroing functions beyond simple keystrokes is against the EULA and can wind up getting these people banned. I have to be careful with this myself because I use a G15 Keyboard.

 

EDIT: They will catch you too btw, I know a guy that used his third party software to bind a toggle jump key to prevent afk and used it in a personal instance and got suspended for a day for doing it.

 

heh you dont have to worry, in fact Lucas Art/EA/Bioware allready support such gaming devices http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_GB/search/keywords.star%20wars. Byuing any of these product will even give you an unique ingame crystal!! And i dont think Razer are allowed to sell anything with the SWTOR logo on it without permission from Lucas Art/EA/Bioware.

 

Keyboard

Razer Naga

Headset

 

With these product either Bioware just want encourage people to break their own EULA, or they are allowed with the software coming with it?

[limmermanrz]

I want macros at the very least the ability to give a shout out in ops or guild or group ( whichever I chose ) that my heal is incoming on %t in 3 seconds. or make a button to yell mobs on the healer get em off.. or whatever. I dont know enough about add-ons to make a decision yet but i will now look into them. I played everquest and while they allowed custom ui's im not sure about any add-ons or if any were made for the game.

[WitherVoice]

Two things.

 

Thing the first

 

I see a lot of people going "omg if we have macros we get bots, aaaaaaaah, the sky is falling!"

 

It is not difficult to bot this game now, and I don't need mods or macros to do it. I choose not to do it, but the existence or not of macros or mods has nothing to do with that.

 

What I want is the ability to control, in a way I am more comfortable with. I want to cast heals on people with mouseover, I want to be able to keep a few out-of-combat abilities on a single button and choose which one is cast with shift/ctrl/alt. I would like the ability to, in a consistent manner, switch it so my main ability bar is the bottom one, and to put more of them/all of them at the bottom of the screen. I want to resize elements.

 

Above all, when on my warrior, I would very much like the ability to put a graphic near my character that tells me things about the cooldown of my abilities, and my available rage, because I want to watch my character beat the snot out of stuff, not stare at the bar to know when my abilities come off cooldown.

 

And I'd also like to be able to have a small window that tells me something about my dps, so I don't have to fraps the fight and count the numbers to figure out which way around I ought to be using my abilities.

 

And finally, I would desperately want to be able to set 24-hour clock, because the whole AM/PM thing is unlovable. Loved by noone. It says so right here in the file.

 

I'd be fairly okay with everything if I got these things from the Bioware. But a lot of people wouldn't be, because THEY want other things. So Bioware could keep adding stuff, and making options for turning everything on and off, moving it to where you want it, and in the end you'd have custom UI, at which point you might as well have let people muck about with it to begin with. The bonus to letting people muck about with it is that you get lots of new ideas and implementations that you can effortlessly stea... ADAPT and put into the basic UI.

 

Thing the second

 

Some people seem to think that the UI is fine as it is, level playing field, yadda yadda.

 

Well, here's the thing: I play some shooters, adventure games, all manner of different stuff like that. Some have very good UI, some not so good. I tend not to have problems with that, because hey, in... oh... a week, tops, I'll have completed the game, and I will likely not play it again, at least not for a good long while. This game is a subscription-based MMO. It's designed to have you playing it for MONTHS. This makes it substantially different.

 

If I'm subbing at an office and am given a desk and a computer, I'll get to work and do the work. If I'm hired, with a projected time to work there of months, I'll want to make my workspace comfortable, including possibly a wrist rest for the keyboard, a comfortable chair, adjusting the height of the desk to fit me, and in general set it up so I feel comfortable. The UI of this game would be fine if they expected me to play it for a week. If they expect me to keep playing, and therefore paying, they had better make it possible for me to get comfortable in it. The storyline stuff is keeping my interest through the shoddier parts of the UI designs so far, but no matter how good a movie is there are limits to how long I will watch it while sitting on broken glass.

[nexusbob]

we dont need mods and macros in swtor - the game is to easy as it is all redy - and if u cant play a game wed out mods and macros maby u shut stop play then or go back to u wow/rift/Aion or go play pac-man

[pieteral]

Addons: Not really needed. We're getting a combat log and the ability to change up our UI, that's all we really need honestly.

 

Macros: On the fence. We would need to severely limit what they can do. A savvy macro user can do many things with just a few lines of code. While I know many players can't or won't do such things, it still doesn't detract what a knowledgeable person is capable of. Some people claim macros don't play the game for you, but I'd wager they haven't seen what macros enable those who know what they're doing.

(I hate using it as a reference, but many/most of us know how the system works there) WoW has a very sloppy macro system that does indeed allow people, who know how to write macros at a much higher level than most players, almost bot the game for them. The only thing these players are actually doing, is making sure they target the right mobs and right players, almost everything else is done by using a macro.

 

I agree about Macros. Macros can be put at the same level as:

Gear advantage

Skill advantage

Macro advantage

Class advantage

 

So it is adding another equation in the challenge of keeping things balanced and providing every type of user a "good feel" experience. It is already challenging enough to balance class, gear and skill to add another one into the equation. If a certain function is general enough for all user base it should simply get implemented.

Macro's can be good for individual requirements as long as they would not affect other players. So Macro's to change gear or things like that I would not have a problem with. But Macros to increase spell cycling, or targeting, etc ... providing none macro users a certain advantage against macro users I would strongly discourage. I know that WOW used to have many macro's that provide some type of skill advantage against none macro users and I know WOW had to correct this as part of the balance challenge.

[ferroz]

They may be in game but they are not condoned.

They have the swtor branding on them... so, exactly how are they "not condoned" ...

 

 

EDIT: They will catch you too btw, I know a guy that used his third party software to bind a toggle jump key to prevent afk and used it in a personal instance and got suspended for a day for doing it.

unattended macroing != attended macroing.

 

there are lots of games where you'll be censured for the former and not the latter.

[Guarrand]

I've been healing 8-man operations lately and will estimate that I switch targets about once every 4 seconds (a lot more during combat, a lot less out of combat). This amounts to over 2500 unnecessary clicks in a 3-hour raid.

 

I've been healing in MMOs for years and now that I'm getting a little older, my fingers actually hurt after one of these sessions. I have to click a mouse for my job and notice the next day if I do a lot of swtor healing the night before.

 

I try not to worry or think about the effect all my MMO playing might have on the long-term health of my fingers, but cutting out 2500+ clicks a night can only help.

 

That...

 

I am a healer by heart also and i cant stress enough the NEED for an easier way to heal.

its not only rediculously stressy to heal through an entire Operation now, but you see nothing else besides the Unitframes and your spellbars. you miss everything around you because you have to focus completely on healing... a missclick might mean the a dead tank which means a wipe.

 

It would be fun to actually SEE the Operation also and appreciate what Bioware has made instead of only seeing the colorful icons of your spellbar...

[skorpius]

Mods and Macros = Easy buttons

 

Say no to the macro

[Canmore]

firstly the game does not NEED them

 

dont you think when you have a serious think about it just how boring the game wil become , just push a hot key and bamm the pc does it all for you /yawn , imagine a game where the only skill used is how clever you are at setting up a macro . not when and how you use skills , it would be push hotkey and watch lol .

 

sorry i dont want swtor to become a game where the only skill you need to play is figuring out how to write macro s for yourself

 

i say no to macro

 

same aplies to mods . and who wants third party software wired into your computer anyway .

[TheNdoki]

skorpius> Go to page 3, scroll down to my post. Read the first and sixth points, your comment has already been addressed.

 

Canmore> Same for you, but points 1, 2 and 5-2

 

It's kinda sad when I can know ahead of time what people's arguments against macros are, and what to say to them. Even more sad when I have yet to see a GOOD reason to keep them away, even after two full threads...

Edited February 7, 2012 by TheNdoki

[Nurvus]

I'm against Mods.

The closest to Recount that is useful without negatively impacting the game is a "Score Board" (like the one in Warzones) when you kill or wipe on a boss, giving you an idea of the damage/healing/absorption/avoidance you did at the end of the fight (whether you won or lost).

 

I'm in favor of keybind-related macros - to reduce the amount of keybinds or make your targetting more effective:

1 - target=mouseover/target=target/target=self/target=focus

2 - modifiers (shift, control, alt)

3 - Stance-modifiers (this includes Stealth, Cover, Warrior Forms, Assassin Charges, Bounty Hunter Cylinders, etc)

4 - Combat-modifiers (this includes whether you or the target are in combat or not; and whether the target is friendly or hostile)

5 - Effect-modifiers (this includes whether you or target have a buff/debuff or not)

 

To those of you who will say 4 and 5 represent automated gameplay, I must say I disagree. The decision-making without them is very simple, and often limited by lag or other factors that are completely unrelated to skill or knowledge of the game.

 

It also means you must make an educated choice because most skills in this game have a cooldown you need to monitor, and certain skills might not be wise to couple, in this regard.

 

I am not in favor of multiple skills being used simultaneously on a single keybind, like cooldown A + cooldown B + opener.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Nurvus

[schmurfy]

I'm against Mods.

 

Seriously who gives a *** if you or anyone are for or against mods ? In the end the devteam of the game will decide by itself anyway, do you really think they read 4000+ of mostly trash posts ?

 

I will just throw out oil on the already well spread fire but my experience in WoW showed me some things:

- the players who are reading/Writing on the forums represents a minority, most of the players never bother to come here and just play the game.

- people loves to hate things even if they don"t even understand what they are really hating or why and they like to tell the world how much they hate it !

- developers/designers are not gods, look at how Blizzard slowly included some addons in the base ui seeing how much the players loved the features they provide. Without any kind of advanced customization most of us will never have the interface they wish for.

 

 

I already canceled my subscription but what will become of this game still hold interest for me and I don't see any bright future without being able to really customize the user interface.

I only read some of the posts and most of them (thanks god there is also good ones) are just whines about how evil the addons are, I played WoW for 4 years and maybe even more and one of the reasons was the awesome user interface and macro system WoW has !

 

Am I an evil cheater exploiting the game in every possible way ? Nop you missed, try again.

I loved changing my ui regularly, moving things around, adding new ones, changing the way I play (click heal to hover heal), testing

new ways of displaying the unitbars, improving my gameplay by reusing the buttons for example allow things multi target macros (if I have a target cast the spell on it, then cast on the player my cursor is over if any, in last resort cast it on me).

 

Being able to completly rework your ui to YOUR needs is something wonderful and until now WoW is the only game that did it right.

 

The addons hate here looks like witch hunt, I think you should ban the fire too it allows bad people to burn good people.

 

 

I doubt I will ever come back here so make yourself at home, I am sure you can reach the posts limits many more times.

 

Now let's troll !

[Taishakutin]

If you have thirty or forty abilities you use dependent on situation, UI flexibility is necessary. My first character is only Level 22 and I'm having some UI frustration because of lack of space for the different kind of spells I'd like to have to hand. That's not a crutch, that's a need. Why would it be a crutch to have some sort of automatic bag-sorting? "If you don't manually sort your bags for three hours then you're not playing the game!" <-- the interface shouldn't get in the way of the game, it should compliment it.

[Harrison_Solo]

NOT a macro. Macros don't perform actions without input from the user. That's called a bot. Your friend was caught botting. There's a difference.

 

Sorry but from what I've seen the anti-modding and anti-macro community is just grossly misinformed (as well as being the minority) and hell bent on trying to keep everyone down at their level, which is already not happening.

 

Check page 3 for more info.

 

Third party software is what comes with the keyboards we were making reference to. Yes it could be viewed as botting but to say that logitech, razer, etc. produce and bundle botting software with their products may have legal ramifications so I'd be careful where I make that statement.

 

heh you dont have to worry, in fact Lucas Art/EA/Bioware allready support such gaming devices http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_GB/search/keywords.star%20wars. Byuing any of these product will even give you an unique ingame crystal!! And i dont think Razer are allowed to sell anything with the SWTOR logo on it without permission from Lucas Art/EA/Bioware.

 

Keyboard

Razer Naga

Headset

 

With these product either Bioware just want encourage people to break their own EULA, or they are allowed with the software coming with it?

 

If the SW:TOR logo is on it then chances are that EA/BW/LA has reviewed the software and found no problems with it. However, using products without these gaming companies endorsement will most likely have a general macroing software with it that may not be condoned by this particular game's EULA at this time.

 

The reference to my friend getting suspended was made to warn anyone from using unsanctioned software, they have a policing agent coded into the game to report back to the GMs when someone is doing something illegal. You don't have to be seen by anyone nor contacted by a GM, they can just unplug you.

 

For the record I have nothing against limited types of mods and macros. I don't like using combat macros myself but some people find it difficult to play without them. I don't condemn people for using them. Also I think everyone could use a good LF or WTB spam macro from time to time. Addons are fine too but I hope they don't allow the "DBM type" mods because I prefer not to be spoon fed my content. Mouseover healing is a yes, Threat/hate meters are a yes, LDB addons/plugins are a yes, UI/Bar mods are a definite yes. I'm on the fence about damage meters, they are handy if used correctly. Incorrect uses include becoming a meter maid and giving people a hard time if their DPS isn't in the top 5 of the Op. Op utility is not solely measured on how hot your DPS or Heals are. Not to mention that there is no 100% accurate way to determine someone's DPS. They are designed to give a rough estimate of one's damage, not to become an elitist.

 

Also This:

I doubt I will ever come back here so make yourself at home, I am sure you can reach the posts limits many more times.

 

Now let's troll !

 

With that I am unsubbed to this thread. Goodbye.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Harrison_Solo

[Drainedsoul]

Addons are fine too but I hope they don't allow the "DBM type" mods

 

Then don't install the mod?

 

It would be almost impossible to allow damage meters and not allow DBM. DBM is essentially combat log parsing and timers.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

/signing off on the macros especially.

 

Every class has SO MANY abilities in TOR, and many of those abilities have similar functionality or share similar cooldowns, good qualifiers for macroing them together.

 

For example, my Bounty hunter has 3-4 DPS abilities with a 15s cooldown. It would be really cool to macro these together to save on UI real estate. I'd also love to be able to use combat-sensitive tags. In combat, you get one ability (or sequence of abilities) out of combat, you get something else.

 

You can get some much-needed functionality by creating keystroke macros with your mouse software or by using programs like AutoHotKey, but there really needs to be some type of macro support ingame, if for no other reason than to reduce the sheer number of necessary keybinds and reduce the UI profile.

 

As for UI mods, I'd love to have some options on how to configure my UI.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui

[Plaite]

Not some freaks who have beter scripting skills then the rest .

But can´t even be bothered to learn the game properly .

 

/cast this;

/cast that;

/cast [mod:alt] this;

 

OMG - those freaks - it's like their brains are made of SCIENCE!

Edited February 8, 2012 by Plaite

[Frostvein]

/cast this;

/cast that;

/cast [mod:alt] this;

 

OMG - those freaks - it's like their brains are made of SCIENCE!

 

Not to mention that nearly every single stinking forum for most MMO's has a sticky at the top that says "Helpful Macros!"

 

I've often gone to the forum of a MMO that I am playing and said "this is what I am trying to do, I have "/cast blah /do blah /execute blah" but its not working, any thoughts?" and within a few minutes have gotten tons of helpful suggestions.

 

People fear change and what they don't understand. Its simple.

[mdobrowney]

I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top.

 

Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out.

 

Macros are a staple in every MMO, how can you just not have them? There's a nice focus target but it's practically useless without focus macros.

 

These should be top priority for the next patch.

 

 

Listen Marcos are just for lazy gamers. I feel they have no place in any mmo. IF you really want them goto http://www.glovepie.org and write your own script.

[Sendrel]

DBM is essentially combat log parsing and timers.

 

This.

 

I've never understood how people could be against DBM and also not against stop watches.

[Aedinius]

The thread is called need for a good reason.

 

I've said this before, but if your reason for not wanting macros is because it diminishes the skill curve, you are ignorant.

 

Ignorant.

 

That is the one, and ONLY, reason to not want them. Macros functions in their current implementation in games like WoW simply exist to allow the game to move to YOUR reaction time.

 

If your personal reaction time sucks, then macros won't make you any better.

 

Ever.

 

Period.

 

But the need for macros aside, the UI needs attention even more. I have gotten to where I can't even really play this game anymore. I'm probably going to let my subscription lapse...because honestly, in its current state, this game has no skill cap.

 

Care to argue? Try and prove it, because we have been given no tools to show what anyone, under any circumstance, is doing. If this game's final difficulty is going to be based around that, I have no desire to be here for the long haul, at all.

[Pink_Saber]

I hope all the people who say stuff like "I want this kind of add-on, but not this one" realize they're asking for the impossible.

 

Either Bioware provides an API or they don't. If there's an API, add-on writers get to do anything the API allows. There's no "you can write an add-on like this one, but not like this other one." That's not how they work.

 

That's also the beautiful thing about add-ons. You provide the information (whether it's character stats, inventory, or stuff from the combat log), and people who want to improve the game use that information in whatever way they think will be useful. A good add-on API will provide a ton of useful information to do that with, and lets people who really care about a game do things the developers would never even think of, much less have time for.

 

This whole "Bioware has to do it, or I'll go into a rage" attitude makes no sense to me at all. Let the players make changes. If they come up with good ideas, great. If we get some crap out of the deal, well, crap happens. The end result of an add-on API is that you multiply the number of developers who can work on the game many times over, and some really good things can come from that.

 

On macros, all I have to say, really, is that the implementation is important. WoW's is actually really good, in that it forces players to make all their decisions for themselves. Rift's on the other hand, is awful because it actually makes decisions for the player. I'd love to see macros, personally, but only if they swing more the WoW direction than the Rift one, and don't trivialize gameplay.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Pink_Saber

[Darkendsoulz]

After raiding in WoW for 7years ive seen what addons can do to the state of a game. The last few years my raiding experience has been based around looking at addons, timer bars, reacting on bossmod sounds. Once you introduce addons that simply tell everyone everything(bossmods mostly) then you enter an arms race which leads you down the road of not really looking at the bosses/the encounter, but end up staring at timer bars for the duration of fights. NTY to this again please.

 

BUT! Please provide a combatlog to access what other people in my raid are or are not doing. I dont particularly want to be carrying 1 person who is struggling to keep up, but have no real basis to prove this. A combatlog will also help decide which of my 2 dps specs performs better, and which spells work best over a whole fight.

 

Also, from a dps/tankign pov a target of target frame would be nice, aswell as a "power auras" type system for ceratin class specific procs. Staring above my player frame for a little box that represents a proc of 1 of my spells is no better than staring at timer bars.

 

I also appreciate from a healing pov, the game is abit clunky atm. Something that mimics "clique" may be a good idea to produce.

 

For everyone else in this thread. Please consider that some addons can be destructive to gameplay. Yes its nice to be able to completely mod your UI, or have bossmods hold your hand through an entire encounter. Please consider that actually watching the fights and learning them correctly is overall more fun and actually makes you a better raider, learn to spot things and adapt, communicate. Addons caused 8/10 problems in endgame WoW and they became an absolute neccessity to raid with. As a RL'er I got sick of continually whining at people about their addons, and sick of the extra ones I had to pick up in order to monitor my raid. My screen became an unpleasant addon orgy!

 

Ill continue to play this game in either direction it goes. I loved my WoW addons ill be honest, but I also witnessed how they altered my gameplay, and playing without them here so far has been refreshing. I miss some things from being able to mod my UI to my personal flavour with varying degrees of artwork. I dont miss staring at timer bars all evening. The ones I feel worked well are listed below. But like the guys post above me states, if you introduce the API to the community you are going to get crap. Id really like to not have bossmods though, players become too reliant on being told what to do rather than observing and adapting for themselves, but again this is my imo! Let the debate continue!!

 

Functions SW could provide internally:

Combatlog. Raid wide recording of other players dps/healing and reportable to chat.

Advanced UI modification

"Clique" style function for healers

Target of target frame

Adjustment of players within the raid frame(again to help group melee/ranged for healing)

"Power Auras" on screen type effects for class specific spell procs

 

NO to

Bossmods - learn the fights properly makes you a better raider. Relying on addons to tell you what to do in a precise moment does not.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Darkendsoulz

[StrongGuy]

BIOWARE- Please open up & let the addons roll! Work with Curse!

 

For those that don't like addons- DON'T USE THEM.. Simple /enough said.

[Frostvein]

For everyone else in this thread. Please consider that some addons can be destructive to gameplay. Yes its nice to be able to completely mod your UI, or have bossmods hold your hand through an entire encounter. Please consider that actually watching the fights and learning them correctly is overall more fun and actually makes you a better raider, learn to spot things and adapt, communicate. Addons caused 8/10 problems in endgame WoW and they became an absolute neccessity to raid with. As a RL'er I got sick of continually whining at people about their addons, and sick of the extra ones I had to pick up in order to monitor my raid. My screen became an unpleasant addon orgy!

 

Let me throw this out there right now - If boss mods held peoples hands, then why did less then 3% of all raiding guilds down Heroic Rag?

 

Listen, boss mods have their advantages and disadvantages, I won't disagree. But acting like a a DBM type addon is the key to success/failure in any fight is a farce.