This game badly needs mods and macros.

[TheNdoki]

After raiding in WoW for 7years ive seen what addons can do to the state of a game. The last few years my raiding experience has been based around looking at addons, timer bars, reacting on bossmod sounds. Once you introduce addons that simply tell everyone everything(bossmods mostly) then you enter an arms race which leads you down the road of not really looking at the bosses/the encounter, but end up staring at timer bars for the duration of fights. NTY to this again please.

 

BUT! Please provide a combatlog to access what other people in my raid are or are not doing. I dont particularly want to be carrying 1 person who is struggling to keep up, but have no real basis to prove this. A combatlog will also help decide which of my 2 dps specs performs better, and which spells work best over a whole fight.

 

Also, from a dps/tankign pov a target of target frame would be nice, aswell as a "power auras" type system for ceratin class specific procs. Staring above my player frame for a little box that represents a proc of 1 of my spells is no better than staring at timer bars.

 

I also appreciate from a healing pov, the game is abit clunky atm. Something that mimics "clique" may be a good idea to produce.

 

For everyone else in this thread. Please consider that some addons can be destructive to gameplay. Yes its nice to be able to completely mod your UI, or have bossmods hold your hand through an entire encounter. Please consider that actually watching the fights and learning them correctly is overall more fun and actually makes you a better raider, learn to spot things and adapt, communicate. Addons caused 8/10 problems in endgame WoW and they became an absolute neccessity to raid with. As a RL'er I got sick of continually whining at people about their addons, and sick of the extra ones I had to pick up in order to monitor my raid. My screen became an unpleasant addon orgy!

 

Ill continue to play this game in either direction it goes. I loved my WoW addons ill be honest, but I also witnessed how they altered my gameplay, and playing without them here so far has been refreshing. I miss some things from being able to mod my UI to my personal flavour with varying degrees of artwork. I dont miss staring at timer bars all evening. The ones I feel worked well are listed below. But like the guys post above me states, if you introduce the API to the community you are going to get crap. Id really like to not have bossmods though, players become too reliant on being told what to do rather than observing and adapting for themselves, but again this is my imo! Let the debate continue!!

 

Functions SW could provide internally:

Combatlog. Raid wide recording of other players dps/healing and reportable to chat.

Advanced UI modification

"Clique" style function for healers

Target of target frame

Adjustment of players within the raid frame(again to help group melee/ranged for healing)

"Power Auras" on screen type effects for class specific spell procs

 

NO to

Bossmods - learn the fights properly makes you a better raider. Relying on addons to tell you what to do in a precise moment does not.

 

Go to page 3, scroll down to my post, read point #5, your issue has already been addressed.

 

I would like to point out one thing though, if you spend all the fights staring at your addons then a) you must have been using some terribad addons, I only ever had to stare at one and that was because I was a warlock and b) you must have stood in the proverbial fire a LOT.

 

The biggest flaw in your argument though is the fact that DBM doesn't provide any more information that the game itself provides. It just makes things a little more noticeable because Blizz dropped the ball on making spell effects noticeable in the heat of a raid, especially for those with minimum graphics.

 

Finally, if you don't like the addon, don't use it! If you're such a great raider then nobody will know otherwise and you're no worse off, whereas we can still play the game how we like to, and we can all be happy. Nobody's taking anything away from you by allowing mods, but you're taking a lot from us by trying to stop them.

 

Also, read the post RIGHT above yours. It's kinda ironic you posted right after him...

[ExaWood]

I want to make this game my own, open it up!

 

Would Iphone have been as successful without apps?

Would Firefox have been so popular without addons?

Would WoW have been so successful without addons?

 

No way!

Why? Because most people want to customize their product/game so that it feels like their own and just the way they like it.

 

If it's already that way for you in the current state, fine, but understand that I want to make it perfect for me as well!

Edited February 9, 2012 by ExaWood

[Nurvus]

NO TO:

- Cast Sequence macro functionality

- Combat Log

- Add-ons like Boss Mods (that trivialize game mechanics)

 

YES TO:

- Targeting macro functionality (mouseover, focus, self, target, target of target, friend/foe)

- Modifier macro functionality (ctrl/shift/alt)

- State macro functionality (out of/in combat, dead/alive/ mounted, stealth, cover, charge, form, cylinder)

- Scoreboard AFTER the combat (like in Warzones)

- Addons limited to customizing UI looks.

- Power Auras style buff/debuff

Edited February 10, 2012 by Nurvus

[Dayfax]

Either Bioware provides an API or they don't. If there's an API, add-on writers get to do anything the API allows. There's no "you can write an add-on like this one, but not like this other one." That's not how they work.

 

Uh, no. That's not how API's work.

 

Bioware could provide any kind of API they want, and it can be as broad or narrow as they see fit.

 

The could very easily allow people to alter the base UI while disallowing access to the real time information that fuels stuff like Recount, Gearscore, DBM, and PowerAuras.

 

They could also do the opposite -- keep the UI locked up while allowing direct access to a combat log.

 

It's not an all or nothing proposition.

[Blackcules]

If Bioware doesn't come out with better UI options soon or at least allow it to be customized I will unsub. Only having 2 bottom bars with all those powers,items,consumables, ect is absolutely ridiculous. I have to have all my powers spread out through my screen and I can only bind so many to my keyboard. The active powers and procs buttons are so tiny and terrible I can't pvp as effectively because there is no flytxt enabled to tell me I proced an effect. I literally have to look away from my character to see if I proced anything very very often.

 

I honestly don't even understand how this awful UI was allowed to be released along with this game. There are so many small issues that aren't fixed (crap auction house interface, can't filter items to your level,class; inability to select what wz you want to queue for, ect), and the list goes on.

 

For the love of god allow the interface to be modded, if bioware isn't going to do it, someone else will.

[Kenmuir]

Uh, no. That's not how API's work.

 

Bioware could provide any kind of API they want, and it can be as broad or narrow as they see fit.

 

The could very easily allow people to alter the base UI while disallowing access to the real time information that fuels stuff like Recount, Gearscore, DBM, and PowerAuras.

 

They could also do the opposite -- keep the UI locked up while allowing direct access to a combat log.

 

It's not an all or nothing proposition.

 

The problem with disabling Recount, Gearscore, DBM, and PowerAuras is what addons can you make? What addons do you know of that a lot of people enjoy using that have zero overlap with those addons?

 

Also, how do you define real time information? Does character health count? Then say goodbye to character frame changes. Do cooldowns count? Say goodbye to bar mods. Do buffs/debuffs count? Say goodbye to any sort of buff tracker.

 

How do you distinguish between the "evil meanie, touched me in the naughty areas" mods and mods you are okay with? Because they use the same information, just in different ways. Your objection seems arbitrary.

[Dayfax]

The problem with disabling Recount, Gearscore, DBM, and PowerAuras is what addons can you make? What addons do you know of that a lot of people enjoy using that have zero overlap with those addons?

 

Also, how do you define real time information? Does character health count? Then say goodbye to character frame changes. Do cooldowns count? Say goodbye to bar mods. Do buffs/debuffs count? Say goodbye to any sort of buff tracker.

 

How do you distinguish between the "evil meanie, touched me in the naughty areas" mods and mods you are okay with? Because they use the same information, just in different ways. Your objection seems arbitrary.

 

I'm making a distinction between being able to skin the graphical UI -- changing the color of window trim, resizing windows, moving elements, etc -- and mods that report & effect actual, live gameplay.

 

I have an objection to mods like Recount, Gearscore, and DBM because I think in the long run, those mods changed WoW, and its player base, for the worse. (btw, you could still have bar mods, just not OmniCC.)

 

My original point was that any API Bioware releases is going to be written by them, and as such they can decide what parts of the game to open up to molders & what parts to keep closed, that it's not as binary, all-or-nothing as the previous poster stated.

[Kenmuir]

 

I have an objection to mods like Recount, Gearscore, and DBM because I think in the long run, those mods changed WoW, and its player base, for the worse.

 

Why? I don't think they did in a negative way. IMO they never really changed the challenges of any encounters I played. Although the difficulty shifted from fighting the UI to fighting the mechanics of the fight, which was a good change.

[Dayfax]

Why? I don't think they did in a negative way. IMO they never really changed the challenges of any encounters I played. Although the difficulty shifted from fighting the UI to fighting the mechanics of the fight, which was a good change.

 

They made the game more about hard numbers than smart gameplay and utility. You didn't need to pay nearly as much attention to what you were doing, or where you were doing it. (Granted, part of the fault lies with Blizzard because they continually simplified encounters and made group composition and individual utility almost irrelevant.)

 

DBM's timers made healing large raids and positioning strategies much, much easier. The announcements ("Run away little girl!") made basic skill checks a total joke.

 

Recount made raw DPS tantamount to all other considerations. You would most often see this in pugs, but tanks wouldn't use mitigation abilities and DPS would ignore mob casts because they were worried about their position on the meters. Everything became about the meters, and encounters were balanced solely around them.

 

Gearscore made hoardes of morons into Internet tough guys & wannabe eltists. It created an ugly, fractured kind of community (I got the feeling the devs must've hated it, because they kept talking about implementing specific items in game -solely- to negate the effects of this one mod.)

 

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who was a complete mod addict. I had an insane number of mods installed, from small UI mods, to class specific mods, to the usual raiding & PvP mods.

 

But over time, I saw how the community, the encounters, & the play styles changed (both my own and others) as these mods became more and more prevalent.

 

These kind of mods turned what should have been challenging encounters into a paint-by-numbers experience, and the devs were forced to design & tune encounters knowing that people would be using them, which ultimately limited the kinds of things they could do.

[DaxRendar]

They made the game more about hard numbers than smart gameplay and utility. You didn't need to pay nearly as much attention to what you were doing, or where you were doing it. (Granted, part of the fault lies with Blizzard because they continually simplified encounters and made group composition and individual utility almost irrelevant.)

 

DBM's timers made healing large raids and positioning strategies much, much easier. The announcements ("Run away little girl!") made basic skill checks a total joke.

 

Recount made raw DPS tantamount to all other considerations. You would most often see this in pugs, but tanks wouldn't use mitigation abilities and DPS would ignore mob casts because they were worried about their position on the meters. Everything became about the meters, and encounters were balanced solely around them.

 

Gearscore made hoardes of morons into Internet tough guys & wannabe eltists. It created an ugly, fractured kind of community (I got the feeling the devs must've hated it, because they kept talking about implementing specific items in game -solely- to negate the effects of this one mod.)

 

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who was a complete mod addict. I had an insane number of mods installed, from small UI mods, to class specific mods, to the usual raiding & PvP mods.

 

But over time, I saw how the community, the encounters, & the play styles changed (both my own and others) as these mods became more and more prevalent.

 

These kind of mods turned what should have been challenging encounters into a paint-by-numbers experience, and the devs were forced to design & tune encounters knowing that people would be using them, which ultimately limited the kinds of things they could do.

 

Quoted for TRUTH

(I had the same experiences and came to the same conclusions)

[TheRealPyxx]

I will say yes to macros, but no to mods, and UI changes.

 

Reason for this is because:

 

1) Macros you can use to help you in many different forms.

 

2) Mods will end up hurting the game more than helping it.

 

3) Mods will make this game turn into another WoW or Rift. which will ultimately lead to it's destruction.

 

Elitists wanting to pull in Damage numbers so people of the highest caliber will only join them in their raids where as some people will not have those same opportunities. It leads to people being bias and showing favoritism as well as not being fair to others.

 

I also want to point out that this game already had a very high PC requirement to run this game. So by adding in mods only heavies the burden on those people's pc's that Elitist's would require you to have.

 

Now I'm using Elitist as a lite word... not saying everyone who uses mods are an Elitist but it generally leads towards that direction.

 

I understand people would want to do their best and want more out of their performance. But you can work on rotations without having any Damage Meters, or other Mods that allow you to manipulate the Game's intentional design.

[Kenmuir]

They made the game more about hard numbers than smart gameplay and utility.

 

How? What's the difference between hard numbers and smart gameplay? Why do you think it is impossible to represent smart gameplay and utility with numbers? The game already does that.

 

You didn't need to pay nearly as much attention to what you were doing, or where you were doing it.

 

???? If you don't pay attention, you don't see the warnings, such as the fire on the ground, HP bar decreasing, boss emote, boss animation. Not sure how any addon significantly impacted this.

 

(Granted, part of the fault lies with Blizzard because they continually simplified encounters and

 

Encounters never got simpler. MC is stupid easy to understand, most bosses had 1 or 2 abilities and if you were lucky you got three phases. Compare that to any encounter in cataclysm and you see even the regular bosses with more abilities and phases.

 

made group composition and individual utility almost irrelevant.)

That was the point. "Bring the player not the class."

 

DBM's timers made healing large raids and positioning strategies much, much easier.

 

??? What? How did DBM impact healing?

 

Positioning easier? DBM didn't move your character for you.

 

But the real question is: Should the difficulty of the encounter be your ability to estimate when the next "event" is going to happen or how you respond to the "event"? You, and most people against addons, seem to believe that the former is the more important part of the challenge, while most people for addons view the latter as the more important part.

 

The announcements ("Run away little girl!") made basic skill checks a total joke.

 

What's the skill check here? BOSS A emotes: "I'm moving all of the oxygen in the room to the left side."

 

What's the skill check? Moving to the required position at the correct time? Or is it figuring out that you need to move in the first place? Again, you seem to imply that the difficulty should come through obfuscation, hence your belief that any way that makes it "easier" to know that you have to do something significantly impacts the challenge of the fight. On the other hand, if you believed that moving at the correct time was the important part of the challenge, you would say that any way the person gets the information that he needs to move is irrelevant, what's important is whether he moves or not.

 

Recount made raw DPS tantamount to all other considerations. You would most often see this in pugs, but tanks wouldn't use mitigation abilities and DPS would ignore mob casts because they were worried about their position on the meters.

 

Bad players are bad players. Also do you have anything to back this up with? Other than some anecdotes of course. I ask because Recount/Combat log keeps track of everything you listed there.

Everything became about the meters, and encounters were balanced solely around them.

 

I would disagree. Encounters are made by the developers not by Recount. Again, you seem to imply that the challenge of the fight should come through obfuscation. That the difficulty of the encounter is figuring out what you did wrong without the tools to tell you exactly what happened. I believe that the difficulty should come from adapting and figuring out what went wrong, and that accurate information on what happened is an important part of that.

 

Saying everything became about the meters is a null statement because meters keep track of everything that happens. You wouldn't say "Everything became about everything" that would just sound silly.

 

Gearscore made hoardes of morons into Internet tough guys & wannabe eltists.

 

No, you got the cause and effect backwards. "Internet tough guys & wannabe eltists" used Gearscore to please themselves. They found the tool, the tool didn't find them.

 

Again, there seems to be some sort of arrogance here. That the "lower people," exemplified by your use of derogatory terms, should not be allowed to play the game a way different from "your interpretation."

 

It created an ugly, fractured kind of community

 

Why should the community not be fractured? Why shouldn't people group with who they choose? Why shouldn't I be allowed to segregate myself from the community? Why can't I form my own community within the larger community?

(I got the feeling the devs must've hated it, because they kept talking about implementing specific items in game -solely- to negate the effects of this one mod.)

 

Examples?

 

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who was a complete mod addict.

 

And yet you seem to get so many things wrong.

I had an insane number of mods installed, from small UI mods, to class specific mods, to the usual raiding & PvP mods.

 

Argument from authority.

 

But over time, I saw how the community, the encounters, & the play styles changed (both my own and others) as these mods became more and more prevalent.

 

Correlation not caustation. What you failed to explain was why mods were the reason that things changed, and why the change was bad.

 

These kind of mods turned what should have been challenging encounters into a paint-by-numbers experience,

 

Why should the challenge come through obfuscation? Why is your way to play the only acceptable way?

and the devs were forced to design & tune encounters knowing that people would be using them, which ultimately limited the kinds of things they could do.

 

Like when they admitted to specifically designing encounters so that you did not need to download any addon? Or when they admitted to testing the encounters with the stock UI just to make sure? That seems like a good design choice not a bad one.

[Frostvein]

DBM's timers made healing large raids and positioning strategies much, much easier. The announcements ("Run away little girl!") made basic skill checks a total joke.

 

Recount made raw DPS tantamount to all other considerations. You would most often see this in pugs, but tanks wouldn't use mitigation abilities and DPS would ignore mob casts because they were worried about their position on the meters. Everything became about the meters, and encounters were balanced solely around them.

 

Gearscore made hoardes of morons into Internet tough guys & wannabe eltists. It created an ugly, fractured kind of community (I got the feeling the devs must've hated it, because they kept talking about implementing specific items in game -solely- to negate the effects of this one mod.)

 

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who was a complete mod addict. I had an insane number of mods installed, from small UI mods, to class specific mods, to the usual raiding & PvP mods.

 

But over time, I saw how the community, the encounters, & the play styles changed (both my own and others) as these mods became more and more prevalent.

 

These kind of mods turned what should have been challenging encounters into a paint-by-numbers experience, and the devs were forced to design & tune encounters knowing that people would be using them, which ultimately limited the kinds of things they could do.

 

Let me throw this out there right now - If boss mods held peoples hands, then why did less then 3% of all raiding guilds down Heroic Rag?

 

Listen, boss mods have their advantages and disadvantages, I won't disagree. But acting like a a DBM type addon is the key to success/failure in any fight is a farce.

 

What say you?

[Wasbeer]

Does anybody else feel this thread has exceeded its milage warranty? Macros and mods are not something that is needed, the UI is not so terrible, with any game improvements will come and I've played plenty of games without any mods or macros and done fine. People may want them but they do not "need" them. There may be a lot of abilities but depending on your spec you wont use all of them and the abilities in this game have never felt overwhelming to bind or use.

 

If you have issues with too many keys try asking for changes to redundant skills such as charge based buffs that can be cast every 12 seconds. They may as well be auto applied.

[Dayfax]

What say you?

 

That was due to encounter design, and no mod in the world would have helped. You had a boss with a heavily RNG fourth phase, and top guilds taking 500 pulls to down him for the first time.

 

Counter question: How many guilds had 6/7 heroic Firelands?

[Pdarkk]

MODS can go to hell that would forever ruin the game

[Lerthan]

Prove to me that mods and add-ons are a must have and needed in the game.

 

Right now every bit of content in this game has been cleared without the use of mods or add-ons.

 

Secondly every player has the same opportunity to clear the content if they are willing to put the effort into it.

 

So please explain to me why Mods are a must have and not a convenience.

[Dranzen]

mouseover function yes ..

Since equels key binding anyway .

 

say or yell or raid warning functions yes .

 

Macro that automates game play , making 4 button click in 1 second NO

It doesn´t equel the playground with those who are not gifted in macro functions.

Sorry you want people to play a game , then all should learn to play .

 

Not some freaks who have beter scripting skills then the rest .

But can´t even be bothered to learn the game properly .

 

 

Macros aren't difficult to write at all, and yes, the game needs macros.

 

Macros that should be implemented:

• mouseover
  
• on use instant items
  
• on use instant skills
  

 

The mouseover macros would greatly help individuals who want to do more fluidity in his/her abilities.

 

The on use instant macros corresponding to items and skills not on the GCD would really help the fluidity of a fight. For example, I have two skills, a relic, and a adrenal not on GCD that I would like to use at the same time. Each skill and item has a 15 second buff. I have all four items mapped to easy to use buttons, but even as fast as I want to be, it still takes 2 seconds to use each of the items and skills. So at best, on a boss fight in which I need instant burst, I have only 13 seconds of actual bolstered burst.

 

These are just basic macro needs to make things a bit more fluid.

 

Regarding Mods or Add-ons, I could care less if they're implemented. The Dev's already have implemented some interesting elements, and once the changes to the UI come out, there will be even less need for Add-ons.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Dranzen

[J_Rimmer]

I’ve looked over the forums and haven’t managed to find Biowares official standpoint on Macros/Add-ons. Assuming they have officially stated an opinion on the matter, could someone link it to me?

 

Also because I haven’t managed to find an official standpoint I’m going to assume the idea of Add-ons and or Macros are still up for debate. So I figured I would give my two cents on the issue.

 

I’m a novice programmer and have been taking college classes that teach C++. I’ve only just recently started to play around with Lau, the programming language used to make World of Warcraft add-ons, and it’s exciting to think of all the options I have.

 

Having played World of Warcraft for 6+ years if found it necessary for me, to have specific add-ons which help to enhance my gaming experience; and No I’m not talking about Healbot! I still heal the good old fashioned way of clicking the character portrait and then pressing the appropriate button (1-7) on the keyboard. But there are a few add-ons which I find hard to play without such as X-Perl which gives you all sorts of UI customization options (Range finder, Edit portrait size, and best of all 3D portraits!) or Atlas Loot giving you an easy in game resource to look at different loot. Auctionator is another that helps me quite a bit when trying to purchase/sell items on the auction house.

 

The last add-on, a lot more controversial it would seem, is Recount. From what I have read the fears of having an add-on like recount is that it would be a tool to exclude and or persecute other players. For example saying things like “You are not pulling enough Dps”, so the player gets kicked or is ridiculed until they leave. Valid complaints, but here is an experience I feel is on the flip side of the coin.

 

I was pvping in the Hutt ball battleground, while I was attempting to get a goal I was stopped short, stunned in one of the furnaces (I can’t think of what to call them). I don’t know if my teammates were blind or what, but out of nowhere they started yelling “Why did you stand in the fire!?”, and started to get quite rude. To bring this back to add-ons, If I were to have an add-on, such a recount, which could tell me how I died, I could then disprove these accusations and get the harassment to stop.

 

Let me make it clear that I don’t want to ruin the game for others. But I feel as though the benefits that come from having add-ons outweigh its short comings. Giving players options is important, and I hope Bioware won’t simply push the idea of add-ons aside regardless of if they are changing the interface or not.

Edited February 11, 2012 by J_Rimmer
Grammatical error

[TheNdoki]

Does anybody else feel this thread has exceeded its milage warranty? Macros and mods are not something that is needed, the UI is not so terrible, with any game improvements will come and I've played plenty of games without any mods or macros and done fine. People may want them but they do not "need" them. There may be a lot of abilities but depending on your spec you wont use all of them and the abilities in this game have never felt overwhelming to bind or use.

 

If you have issues with too many keys try asking for changes to redundant skills such as charge based buffs that can be cast every 12 seconds. They may as well be auto applied.

 

Actually from what I've seen most of the mileage is coming from posters like you who keep repeating the same pointless arguments that have already been addressed. It's like the entire anti-mod community KNOWS they are wrong but hope that if they complain the loudest and keep filling the boards with the same things they'll win.

 

Case in point. Page 3, scroll to my post.

Macros and mods are not something that is needed

1st point.

 

I still have yet to see ONE argument against mods/macros that hasn't already been addressed and defeated. So let's face it guys, there isn't any good reason to stop them, people are just against it because of one of the following:

1. They're afraid of change

2. They know they're bad and don't want people finding out. (No recount!)

3. They're selfish and want everyone to play the game the way they learned how (I use 14 hotkeys, why can't you?)

4. They don't understand how mods work (No DBM, it makes the game too easy!)

5. They're lazy (I don't want to have to install an addon and figure out how to use it!)

6. They're lazy (I don't want to have to find/make a guild that doesn't rely on DPS meters)

7. They're wannabe elitist (This game isn't hard, just L2play!)

8. They don't want to run endgame dungeons without any prerequisite work (no gearscore!) and don't want people knowing it's them that wiped the group. (which they can find out anyways!)

 

Seriously, does anyone have any anti-mod argument that HASN'T already been beaten to death?

[TheNdoki]

Prove to me that mods and add-ons are a must have and needed in the game.

 

The first point of my post on page 3 already answered your question for you, so you're literally asking for proof for something that was already given 7 pages ago. THIS is why we are on our third thread reiterating the same points... because they've already been defeated and the anti-modders just keep bringing them back.

Edited February 11, 2012 by TheNdoki

[zmoose]

Macros - YES!

Mods/Addons interface - YES!

Mouse Over Function - YES!

DPS Meter - YES!

Combat Log - YES!

Threat Meter - YES!

Edited February 11, 2012 by zmoose

[zmoose]

For the rest of us (and according to the polls, the majority of us) we'd like to play the game how we prefer, and who are you to say we can't?

 

Hey TheNdoki, where are the polls you're referring to? I'm for Bioware adding an API for mods/macros and my friends and I would like to be sure our votes are accounted for.

 

Thanks

[Dayfax]

In summary: If you like the game the way it is, great! This issue doesn't affect you since you could just not download anything and keep playing it the way it is. For the rest of us (and according to the polls, the majority of us) we'd like to play the game how we prefer, and who are you to say we can't?

 

All of your arguments are particularly weak, as they rely on faulty premises I don't see anyone making lately.

 

But to address the bolded quote above: Who am I? I'm the guy paying 15 bucks a month, same as you.

[Lerthan]

I think this about covers the anti-modders arguments. If I missed one lemme know and I'll update it. If you are against mods/addons, pick your argument below.

 

#Macros/addons aren't needed.

-That depends on your definition of 'need'. We're all playing this game (or any game) to have fun, and the more we can tailor the game to suit our individual play styles, the more enjoyment we'll all get out of it. If enjoying a game isn't important to you then why are you playing it at all?[/Quote] This proves that it’s a convenience not a necessity to do the game content. All content has been cleared without the use of them. You still fail to prove that they are needed. When the content gets to the point where it is needed to clear the content then the add-ons are needed.

#Macros/addons break the game!

-False! Addons don't provide any information not already available in the game, and macros cannot press buttons for you. They are so players can customize the information being presented to them in a way they prefer.

Actually yes they do provide information that is not available in the game. Can it be corrected yes but it is never corrected before the mod is allowed in. The PvP mod for wow actually showed you there cool downs, spec, everything about the player and that is not available in the game threw normal means. From what I understand this has been corrected as of now but yes the players using that mod had a distinct advantage over players that dint have it.

 

DBM showed boss abilities that where going to proc when said boss ability had zero emote or in game graphic before it happened. Even events that were supposed to be on a random timer where placed into the DBM add-on.

 

Even if content was not designed around you having the Mod, the mod its self did make the encounter a lot easier. You no longer had to pay attention to the boss. Now you just watched for flashes or voices on your screen. There where fights in BC, most of wrath that once I installed DBM I quit paying attention to the fight all together and read my book and still toped the DPS. I will say this, it was not solely DBM’s fault that I could do this, it was also poor mechanic design on the encounter. However without DBM I would have at least had to pay attention to the fight.

 

Raid leaders also had an add-on that showed the status of consumables and how many reagents the player had on them. Last I checked /inspect did not show you the contents of that players bags or how much stuff they carried on them.

 

The rotation mod that folks downloaded, that was so cheatable if you knew how. You could download a mouse program that would basically turn your mouse into a repeat clicker just by setting the settings on it. It would set your mouse curser to the same spot on the screen and threw the program make the game think you where actually clicking your mouse.

 

#Addons make the game unfair!

-How can something be unfair when it's available to everyone?

They are not available to everyone. Some systems are at the low level to run the game much less add-ons. Therefore these players do not have the ability to run with the add-ons.

 

 

#I don't have time to download addons/I don't know how!

-If you have time to read this, you have time to download it. Don't have time to look at the settings for your new addon? Try it next time you're on a speeder path. Don't know how? You found this forum, it's not much harder than that.

True, people can find out how to download fairly easily.

 

#I don't want to be forced to deal with people looking at my gearscore or DPS!

-1. they can look at those things already by inspecting you, or watching the fight, so you're already out of luck.

2. If you don't like it, don't download it! Maybe join a guild that doesn't use them (they do exist) instead of trying to force everyone to play the game YOU want. The galaxy doesn't revolve around you.

 

True, unfortunately if you want to be in a progression guild they have to download and use them. Thereby you are forcing them to play with the mods even if they don’t want to, yet want to raid and progress in content while it is still viable content. The progression guilds in wow require them and you would be hard pressed to find a guild that dint and was still a progression guild.

 

#Addons make the game easymode for noobs.

-If they are a noob they won't bother downloading the addon in the first place, and if they did they wouldn't know how to use it properly anyways. Finally if it DID make the game easymode they wouldn't be a noob anymore (which we all know doesn't happen) and suddenly the game is filled with people who actually know how to run a flashpoint. How is that a bad thing? If a game is only fun for you based on how hard it is to learn/play why aren't you playing Ninja Gaiden blindfolded?[/Quote]

 

Actually they make it a lot easier for players to learn their rotation. There is a mod out there that will actually show you your rotation with zero effort on your part to learn it. Does it make an inherently bad player better, no it doesn’t. That part is true. But at least that bad player does good DPS while there still alive : P

 

#Addons can be used to hack/cheat the game.

-Yes, some can, but Bioware can simply ban the addon. This serves a second benefit since the time they save in not having to edit the game themselves they can use to fix other things like, say, bugs, or making more content. In a way addons actually help improve the game for everyone.

 

Yes, they can ban the add-on. However, there are ways to cheat with add-ons that do not involve the add-on its self, See above about the rotation add-on. Secondly it is not just game play hacking that is a concern with this. It is account hacking that is the major concern. If you know what you are doing you can conceal a hack in another program (aka add-on) that a player downloads without it ever being picked up as a virus or even showing that there is a .exe hidden in the file when you go to manually look. You then gain access to that players account information and can log into their account and do whatever you want.

 

 

In summary: If you like the game the way it is, great! This issue doesn't affect you since you could just not download anything and keep playing it the way it is. For the rest of us (and according to the polls, the majority of us) we'd like to play the game how we prefer, and who are you to say we can't?

 

P.S. UI customization is already on it's way, so there's no need to keep going on about it.

 

Also false like I stated before, if you want to raid and progress at the top tier the add-ons become mandatory and the guilds that refuse to use them few and far between and they are never progression guilds. You then force players to play using them or not play the way they want to.

 

None of this is to say that I am against add-ons. Specific add-ons yes, Add-ons in general no.

 

I am saying prove to me that they are needed and necessary to progress in the game before I can give my vote to say yes add them.

 

As it stands right now they are a convenience to have and something that would be nice but you still have not proved that they are something that is absolutely a must have in the game.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Lerthan