Chaostie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I agree. And I personally want to try out all the Classes/AC's as well as check out all their story lines. So for me, I have TONs of things to do, at 3hrs a day. Same. For once I started at the beginning of an MMO and want to be one of those people with a max level of every class / advanced spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 wow. thats a grim picture for blizzard. ............. but no, they are not trolling. they are mainly wow refugees, trying to turn this game into wow. blizzard started heavily 'casualizing' wow, because going hardcore cost them majority of subscribers. 5% is the hardcore segment which have ever seen molten core etc in wow, rest have never made it that far. increasing casualizing alienated the hardcores. and after that, blizzard started moderating forums heavily. you cant see any of these 'game will fail' threads there now. quick ban. you cant even talk smack. this is since 1.5 years. this alienated more hardcores. and at last, they brought in pandas. this alienated a huge number of those hardcores. and now here they are, continually complaining, but NOT canceling their subscriptions. because they have no other game to go to now. so, they talk talk, shout shout, demand. when you look at their demands, you see that they have a common pattern : all are stuff that are in wow. so, they have fled from wow, which has turned on them, and now trying to make another game into wow and fit in it. swtor, copying the general mechanics of wow was susceptible to this crowd. and here they are. ............... bioware needs not to pay attention to their demands. unfortunately for them, their demands are self destructive for themselves too ; their demands increasingly turns a game into a tedious, irritating grind, and then drives away majority players. then, the company either goes bankrupt, or turns on this hardcore crowd. its a self-defeating spiral. and, there is NO way of satisfying them, regardless of what you do. if bioware caters to these, they will lose all the whopass sales numbers which came in from star wars base. Epic post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmung Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've played with my level 36 main 8 full days worth so far, have missed doing two Heroics and completing one ultra-hard space mission so far that have gone gray for me and have otherwise done everything I can and tried to explore the worlds in full, doing one Flashpoint and one Heroic twice. Almost 200 hours and a lot of more to go until level 50. People should just go through all the content instead of speedily leveling up to 50. i agree people should do all the content that is avalible. but a lot dont like the fact that the only diff. between the storys are the main story line for that class the rest of the planet quests are the same for the 4 classes. so why do you want to play the planet missions 8 times? i did it 4 times and just teamed up with friends with my 50 to run them thru the class story lines i didnt see. now i have seen them all and nothing left to do. just because you cant level a guy up to 50 in a certain amount of time doesint mean others cant. l2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh nooo, the game's been out a month, I rushed to 50 instead of experience the game play / story like this game was made for so there is nothing for me to do, oh noooo. Why isn't this game more like games that have been out much longer? Oh noooooo. Your probably gonna be using this same arguement next month too.... nooo, the games been out 2 months, I rushed to 50 instead of experience the game play.... dude just shut your mouth. Some people had early release also which puts their play time near 2 months now. Your ignorant if you think its rushing to be 50 after a month/2 months game play. Just wow at the extent fan boy's will go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) we went back to other games waiting for gw2 to come out. other games as in acon, sto, dco, fallen earth, eve, wow and rift. all seem to be better than this game. in swtor i have 4 level 50 toons and did the raids and hm flashpoints the game just doesint have much to it. the storys are not that good. pvp is a joke and that was a big thing for us. but thank you for letting me know how you feel ill bring it up at the next stock holders meeting. 4 Level 50 toons means that you rushed through the storyline. Your opinion on the stories not being good doesn't mean much if you skipped through them. You don't like it, that's fine. But don't try to give advice to people if you skip content. It's like someone telling you a 400 page book is bad when they only read 50 random pages. Edited January 31, 2012 by Lazorous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 we went back to other games waiting for gw2 to come out. other games as in acon, sto, dco, fallen earth, eve, wow and rift. all seem to be better than this game. in swtor i have 4 level 50 toons and did the raids and hm flashpoints the game just doesint have much to it. the storys are not that good. pvp is a joke and that was a big thing for us. but thank you for letting me know how you feel ill bring it up at the next stock holders meeting. You either play 10 hours a day, seven days a week, or your lying. I wonder which it could be. I seriously wonder which it could be. With multiple toons in the high forties and fifty, with my legacy level at 20, with way too much time on my hands.. I still havent gotten bored yet. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaostie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Your probably gonna be using this same arguement next month too.... nooo, the games been out 2 months, I rushed to 50 instead of experience the game play.... dude just shut your mouth. Some people had early release also which puts their play time near 2 months now. Your ignorant if you think its rushing to be 50 after a month/2 months game play. Just wow at the extent fan boy's will go.... Considering I can tell you jack **** about anything SW that I haven't learned in this game, calling me a fan "boy" is wrong, so sorry. But you're still expecting too much if you want a million things to do at end game even at two months. Especially since this game ISN'T about end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Same. For once I started at the beginning of an MMO and want to be one of those people with a max level of every class / advanced spec. Yeah, and for a person like me with only 3hrs a day to play, if that... that's like over 300 days worth of light entertainment. This is assuming an average of 80hrs per story (8 stories) = 640hrs And to repeat those classes with a different AC, I'd assume maybe half the time since storyline is the same most can be skipped. Although, I'd like to go all Dark and all Light just to see the different options. So add another 320hrs. Yeah, I'm pretty much set =P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Considering I can tell you jack **** about anything SW that I haven't learned in this game, calling me a fan "boy" is wrong, so sorry. But you're still expecting too much if you want a million things to do at end game even at two months. Especially since this game ISN'T about end game. Im not defending the guy.... But every game is about end game. Otherwise, there is no game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaostie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Im not defending the guy.... But every game is about end game. Otherwise, there is no game. Okay, this game is LESS about end game then. This game also has much more end game on release then pretty much any other game out there when they released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Okay, this game is LESS about end game then. This game also has much more end game on release then pretty much any other game out there when they released. No argument there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Okay, this game is LESS about end game then. This game also has much more end game on release then pretty much any other game out there when they released. It really doesn't. If you have 3 raids but they can all be cleared in a week vs. 1 raid that takes 90 days to complete, which has more end game content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Im not defending the guy.... But every game is about end game. Otherwise, there is no game. Within time, yes it becomes more about end game. But many new MMO's don't start off with massive End Game content. And to use WoW as an example again, there really was no End game at the beginning. It took a few more patches before real End Game raiding content was available. And even then, it was still limited and required 40 people to be coordinated... which in itself takes a bit of tolerance to get through. In comparison to content, BW has made a good effort to keep us in the loop on what is in the works. That's a lot more to say than what Blizzard announces. You'd be lucky to hear any official word from Blizzard in months, back in those times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megaphys Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah those are what we call "casuals" Casual gamers are the ones that buy Call of Duty every year and think it's GOTY. Casuals are gamers who don't care about industry issues because they are detached consumers. Casuals are people who bought the Wii en masse. Casuals lack the experience to make informed judgments about the quality of a game. Casuals are people who think playing a few hours a week is value for a 15$ per month subscription. "casuals" are the ones who make almost every product that is a smash success a smash success. Super blockbuster movies? appeals to casuals Multi million dollar clothing companies, casuals itunes/apple casuals The goal of almost every business with a product is to get casuals to love your product, thats where your biggest money will come from. Its basic economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaostie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It really doesn't. If you have 3 raids but they can all be cleared in a week vs. 1 raid that takes 90 days to complete, which has more end game content? If a game has 3 raids that can be cleared a week, and another game has no raids at all, which one has more end game? Most games {even WoW} have no end game upon release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It really doesn't. If you have 3 raids but they can all be cleared in a week vs. 1 raid that takes 90 days to complete, which has more end game content? Taking more time to complete an encounter does not equate to more content. It wasn't because there was a lot more to see or do... it was because some boss mechanics takes a lot more time to figure out and master. For example, if both games had 5 bosses in a main raid encounter. One game takes a day to figure out and beat one boss, vs the other game takes 1 week to figure out each boss. That is not more content, that is just more time spent on the same amount of content. You can argue swtor encounters are relatively easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Seen quite a few people say how "SWTOR is failing" or something along those lines. Just wondering where they are getting the "evidence" behind these claims. I don't understand how anyone can take those people seriously when Bioware doesn't release subscriptions numbers...and almost all of the player-tracking tools are very far from accurate. I'm just baffled that this many people can confidently write a post saying "Well its obvious SWTOR is a failure" *Shakes head* Did I miss some news article that release subscription numbers of people on their second month compared to the number of people that purchased the game? They have no evidence. Just makes themselves feel better to spew doom and gloom instead of just not playing if they don't like it or just waiting for a fix for something that might not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It really doesn't. If you have 3 raids but they can all be cleared in a week vs. 1 raid that takes 90 days to complete, which has more end game content? So if they cut the current exp given in half, did they just double the content?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Within time, yes it becomes more about end game. But many new MMO's don't start off with massive End Game content. And to use WoW as an example again, there really was no End game at the beginning. It took a few more patches before real End Game raiding content was available. And even then, it was still limited and required 40 people to be coordinated... which in itself takes a bit of tolerance to get through. In comparison to content, BW has made a good effort to keep us in the loop on what is in the works. That's a lot more to say than what Blizzard announces. You'd be lucky to hear any official word from Blizzard in months, back in those times. I hate getting into this fight.... but here goes. Every game is about getting you to log back on. This includes character progression of some sort. Everything that takes place post 50 is endgame, and is the entire reason you continue to log back on after your initial leveling. This is the entire purpose of an mmo. To get you to continue to log back on and pay for a sub. Every game is about this, no exception. Anywhere, ever, at all. Im sorry, but thats the way it is. How they choose to do that, is entirely up to them. As far as them keeping me in the "loop". Im not arguing against bioware. Im not slamming the game. Im not naysaying. Im pointing out some things. They need to be said, and they need to be considered by people when they post comments. Nothing more. Besides. I dont talk about blizzard anymore. We broke up years ago. She cheated on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legbamel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 To counter the anecdotal "all servers are dying" posts, I have three characters that I play with my husband on one of those pesky expansion servers. Until this past weekend I had never seen it reach Standard, that's how few people were on it. Yesterday, 8PM on a Monday night on a US server, we logged in and it was still at Standard. So were the other two servers on which I have toons. A question for those pointing at the upcoming 3rd quarter financials for "proof" to come, however. As a Decemberist married to a guy who bought his digital copy New Year's Eve, how will 3rd quarter numbers tell you much about a 4th quarter release? If anything, I'd argue that the 1st quarter 2012 numbers would be more telling than how many die-hard fans ordered three months before release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 if u check out the europe server status, its off the chain right now. no fail for tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warultima Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) If a game has 3 raids that can be cleared a week, and another game has no raids at all, which one has more end game? Most games {even WoW} have no end game upon release. Rift has Greenscale Blight 20 men raid on release with 10 5 men dungeons and an expert (hard mode) mode for each on release. And on release Rift has quad specs (dual spec of wow but u get 4 specs) and macros and fully customizable UI as well. GSB took quite awhile to beat across the world because its real hard at least (comparable to MC during vanilla wow). Right before most guild and progress thru the GSB they released River of Soul as 2nd 20 men raiding and the difficult is also quite a jump from GSB. Then Hammerknell Fortress is released as the 2nd tier 20 men raiding instance which is jumbo size 12 bosses instance and there are still hundreds of raiding guild progressing on it even if its been out for over 6 months. IMO having three easy Ops that gets cleared in a month into release might not always be the way to go. Its lacking depth of encounters. The difficulty of OPs in swtor really doesnt compare to Vanilla WoW. (edit and yea Raids are WAYYY easier than most hardmodes and rewards better items? really?) Edited January 31, 2012 by warultima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This game doesn't have a million subs, They fired the people that made Warhammer SOMEWHAT decent and hired all the people that destroyed; Jeff Hickman etc., Bioware blames most or any technical issue on the user, They release untested broken content, When users take advantage of their untested broken content, they blame the user, Staggered release made this the worse launch in MMO history, Founders Title. Enough said. Bioware habitually lies, retracts statements, etc In beta, Bioware said they would have premade 50s to test higher level content; they never did. Likewise, public test server does not have premade 50s to test content. Game features are old, outdated systems from WoW. Even class skills are a direct rip from WoW. Hardmodes are harder than raids, PvP is terrible and filled with the same Empire classes spamming lightning, EA has a track record of failed MMOs: Hellgate, APB, Warhammer, soon The Secret World... EA has a disgruntled work place; EA Louse, EA Spouse, Mark Jacobs These are just off the top of my head for reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoUZeroEnna Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) These threads make me giggle. Never have I seen so much baseless hate for a game since MMOs began with Ultima Online and even then there was not this much vitriolic rhetoric towards a game. So many claiming that it is a failure. That the game had the worst launch in mmo history. Yet I have seen no basis for any of these claims because I played every major mmo launch and I can compare it to every single one and this is one of the smoothest I have been in. Do I believe there should be some things fixed? Of course I do. I am a gamer and I always wanted things fixed and improved so my game play can be more enjoyable. Do I want some things added? Yes I doi. I would like to see more pvp game types added like CTF, Manhunt, Execution. And yes I do know these are primarily FPS game types but that is also the fun. They could add so much dimension and variety to the pvp and also so much fun. There is asoneeds to be options so we can choose which game type we want to play. Would also like some sort of seige warfare game type where we can capture/control and destroy enemy bases and camps. I have so many more ideas but that is besides the point. The game is great and Bioware is rolling out fixes at least once per week. And they keep exceeding my expectations. So if they are failing then fail on BW Edited January 31, 2012 by FoUZeroEnna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I hate getting into this fight.... but here goes. Every game is about getting you to log back on. This includes character progression of some sort. Everything that takes place post 50 is endgame, and is the entire reason you continue to log back on after your initial leveling. This is the entire purpose of an mmo. To get you to continue to log back on and pay for a sub. Every game is about this, no exception. Anywhere, ever, at all. Im sorry, but thats the way it is. How they choose to do that, is entirely up to them. As far as them keeping me in the "loop". Im not arguing against bioware. Im not slamming the game. Im not naysaying. Im pointing out some things. They need to be said, and they need to be considered by people when they post comments. Nothing more. Besides. I dont talk about blizzard anymore. We broke up years ago. She cheated on me. I'm not sure where you're considering this as a "fighting" topic, nor the need for me to consider when posting comments. There's no indication in my post that suggest I'm not aware there is a need for endgame content. The issue is how quickly can end game content be applied and available. As it stands, there is end game content. Whether people like the available content or not is another story. But it's also clear that more content will be available. My point was just stating there in many MMO's that I've played, at its inception, there was hardly any end game content, if compared to the big raids that are NOW available in MMO's that have been going on for years. It's been two months, and I think a lot of people are drawing their conclusions that the majority are 50, therefore the majority are lacking enough end game content. Well, I argue that isn't true considering how people are complaining that lvl 50 brackets have way longer WZ queues. If there were truly a saturation of 50s, that 50 bracket queue should pop sooner. There is still much to be seen. It's up to people whether they choose to stick around for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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