Trooper healing gimped?

[withonor]

I don't understand the complaints in this thread at all. The only thing I would like to see is for Kolto Bomb to either hit more people or hit three people in a bigger radius.

 

I think there is way too much praise for Sages. I've never played one myself, but I've never felt inferior to one. And I've healed Ops with a Sage and a Scoundrel. I healed with a Sage in normals and it was fine. We made it look easy.

 

But, my very first attempt at anything above normal (I still have never tried a Hardmode Ops), I got pulled into the puzzle boss in Karagga's Palace, Nightmare mode. It was my guilds first attempt at it, ever. The other healer was a Scoundrel. Something went wrong the first pull with the puzzles so we Exited Area if we could. Next try, we downed it. First attempt ever on Nightmare Karagga, we one shot it with myself, a Commando Healer, and a Scoundrel Healer.

 

Either you're not using your skills to the best of their ability or you're stacking the wrong stats.

 

For me, the worst boss I've fought in this game is actually the first boss in Hardmode Maelstrom Prison. The combination of group damage and interrupts makes it difficult, but I think it usually meant the DPS wasn't good enough to down it fast enough.

[RuQu]

I don't understand the complaints in this thread at all. The only thing I would like to see is for Kolto Bomb to either hit more people or hit three people in a bigger radius.

 

I think there is way too much praise for Sages. I've never played one myself, but I've never felt inferior to one. And I've healed Ops with a Sage and a Scoundrel. I healed with a Sage in normals and it was fine. We made it look easy.

 

But, my very first attempt at anything above normal (I still have never tried a Hardmode Ops), I got pulled into the puzzle boss in Karagga's Palace, Nightmare mode. It was my guilds first attempt at it, ever. The other healer was a Scoundrel. Something went wrong the first pull with the puzzles so we Exited Area if we could. Next try, we downed it. First attempt ever on Nightmare Karagga, we one shot it with myself, a Commando Healer, and a Scoundrel Healer.

 

Either you're not using your skills to the best of their ability or you're stacking the wrong stats.

 

For me, the worst boss I've fought in this game is actually the first boss in Hardmode Maelstrom Prison. The combination of group damage and interrupts makes it difficult, but I think it usually meant the DPS wasn't good enough to down it fast enough.

 

To help you understand, first try and understand that it is possible to point out flaws and not be complaining. I think that's the first thing you missed, and the rest tends to not make sense without acknowledging that fact.

 

Second, MMOs are constantly changing, and therefore require a dialogue between users and developers. What rotations are we using? Do those differ from the intended design? (See Scoundrel/Operative healing, pretty sure it isn't played how they thought it would be.) What are we struggling with? Where do we shine? Where do we struggle? Is that as was intended? What tools do we feel like we are missing? Is that intended?

 

Ideally this dialogue should be constructive, but this is the internet, so standards of what to expect in terms of constructive feedback likely need to be adjusted because, frankly, people on the internet are simply terrible. That said, some forums and posters do better than others, and even the worst posts can usually be translated into normal human speech to see what the person was trying to express.

 

"Gimped" is a relative term, and usually needs comparison to a "non-gimped" standard or reference to the situation where it lacks the tools to complete the job. [terrible analogy] To be non-PC for a moment, a midget is gimped in the 400m dash vs a Kenyan, and someone in a wheelchair is gimped vs stairs. The first is about class balance, and while the midget can get the job done, a Kenyan sprinter will get it done better. The guy in the wheelchair simply lacks the tools (legs) to deal with the encounter design (stairs). [/terrible analogy]

 

With the above in mind, being constructive when discussing "gimped" status requires letting the Devs know where you struggle and where you don't. For instance, I love Kolto Bomb, but it is definitely gimped both in comparison to Salvation and when dealing with encounter design. Take the first boss of EV. For those unfamiliar, he casts a volley of missiles at everyone, and the group needs to hide behind pillars to avoid them. Most people take at least one hit getting to the pillars, so AoE heals are needed. KB is completely incapable of dealing with this. Why?

1. It is on a cooldown.
   
2. It only hits 3 people.
   
3. It doesn't choose the three people most in need of healing, so with everyone standing close together there is no way to force it to spread the healing around or center it on the most wounded person.
   
4. It doesn't heal for much. Assuming it heals the right 3 people, it heals for about as much as a MP, just spread out over 3 people, but it isn't spammable, so if all 3 actually needed a full MP, they all now need 2/3 of an MP, which means manually casting it on each will be overhealing, but you can't just spam KB due to 1-3.
   

 

So what do I do in that encounter? I toss KB as I run, mostly to apply the buff, and then wait for the Sage to cast Salvation behind the pillar which heals everyone up. Without a Sage I would cast KB on the run for the buff, and then single target everyone behind the pillar one at a time. With a Sage, I just apply the buff and wait for them to heal the group, as their AoE will take care of it, especially with KB buff, and anyone I single target just ends up wasting resources because their AoE will cap the group without me. Instead I just heal myself up then run back into the end of the missiles to toss some heals on our tanks before that phase is up.

 

Now, none of the above are complaints. That is a description of a fight, and how the tools we are given to deal with part of it are insufficient and why, and also how another class has tools that do that job properly.

 

To round out the constructiveness of the post, I should end with possible solutions.

• Change the cap on KB to 8. Reduce CD to 3s.
  
• Set cap at 3-6, but add smart healing. Remove CD.
  
• Change cap to 8, keep CD, but ~double the coefficient.
  
• Set cap to 3-6, add smart healing, keep CD, but ~double the coefficient.
  

[withonor]

To help you understand, first try and understand that it is possible to point out flaws and not be complaining.

 

I understand just fine. If you read my post and understood what I said, you would know I am doing the hardest encounters available and I have no problems. And I don't need a magical Sage to make it possible.

 

Your suggestions for Kolto Bomb would make me so over-powered, my guild would look for another Commando healer. I would like it to hit 4-5 people instead of 3, or just have a bigger radius so I can reliably hit 3 people. But let's be reasonable. If it hit 4 people as it stands now, that is up to ~8400 healing for 2 ammo in my gear. That's overpowered already. So I would just like to have a bigger radius. Very little benefit in 16 man Ops, but would help in 8 man Ops and HM Flashpoints where there is more distance between people.

 

We're working on Nightmare Soa, and I don't feel like I'm underpowered for it.

 

Flaws are subjective. Complaints are subjective. If someone has a problem, they should post a question instead of looking for sympathy. That's not always true, but there is nothing wrong with Commando healing right now.

Edited February 27, 2012 by withonor

[RuQu]

I understand just fine. If you read my post and understood what I said, you would know I am doing the hardest encounters available and I have no problems. And I don't need a magical Sage to make it possible.

 

To be fair, before you get up in arms, you started your last post with this line:

 

I don't understand the complaints in this thread at all.

 

So starting my post with a line about "helping you understand" is not me insulting you, it is directly addressing your own comment. If you are offended by such language, and from your standoffish response I can only assume you took it as an insult to your intelligence/skill, you should choose your words more carefully.

 

Your suggestions for Kolto Bomb would make me so over-powered, my guild would look for another Commando healer. I would like it to hit 4-5 people instead of 3, or just have a bigger radius so I can reliably hit 3 people. But let's be reasonable. If it hit 4 people as it stands now, that is up to ~8400 healing for 2 ammo in my gear. That's overpowered already. So I would just like to have a bigger radius. Very little benefit in 16 man Ops, but would help in 8 man Ops and HM Flashpoints where there is more distance between people.

 

Resource cost comparisons are not significant in current content. Enrage timers are short enough that Sages/Sorcs do not run out of Force in encounters, and the other classes have small but quickly regenning pools. The restriction on KB at the moment is the CD, not the Ammo cost.

 

Let's look at the 3 AoE abilities:

excerpted from a comparison I did on the Healer Forums:

Assuming 410 Bonus Healing (which is what I had at the time from my gear).

 

Salvation: Average Heal per person per tick = 134.615 + 0.376*410 = 288.775

Kolto Bomb: Average Heal per person = 382.59 +1.08*410 = 825.39 (866.66 on casts 2 and 3)

Kolto Cloud: Average Heal per person per tick = 132.032 + 0.386*410 = 290.292

 

Now, Salv and KC are HoTs, so we have to factor in the number of ticks. Salv has 10 ticks, KC has 5. So Salv can heal 1 person for 2887.75HP, and KC can heal 1 person for 1451.46.

 

That's one person, but admittedly over different time spans. To cover the healing they could do in an equal time, you can fit 5 KBs, 3 Salvs, or 2 KCs in a 30s, spread over a fight.

 

So how much is that per person, by ability?

Salv: 8663.25

KB: 4126.95 (47.64% of Salv, per person, capped at 3)

KC: 2902.92 (33.51% of Salv, per person, capped at 4)

 

That's per person in equal time, so those ratios apply as you scale it up or down, with KB and KC capping at 3 and 4 respectively. Yes there are different limitations, but they all have weaknesses so you can't arbitrarily assume that Salv will never have people stand in it for 10s while assuming KB and KC will always heal someone who needs it and that the KC HoT won't overheal or be made obsolete by other healing during its 15s duration.

 

So what would happen if you followed any of my suggested solutions?

• Raise the cap to 8, reduce CD to 3s. Since the above numbers are per person, changing the cap doesn't change the ratio. Reducing he CD to 3s from 6s, however, lets you double the healing in a 30s window, bringing it to 8253.9 (95.27% of Salv). To benefit, however, you would have to cast it twice as often, so that's using 4 Ammo to get there, or 1/3 of our resource pool, if you think resource comparisons are legitimate.
  
• Raise to 8, keep CD, double coefficient: just doubles the healing, and removes the scaling issue. No need for smart healing. Since healing is doubled but is still only a single cast, this is more OP since we move to 95% of Salv for the same 2 Ammo price.
  
• Raising the cap to 3-6. Any capped healing AoE requires smart healing. Once we accept that, we again have the same math as for 8 people, but with the player cap limitation. In the 3-4 range, no CD means we could spam it every 1.5s, potentially getting 4x the healing, which would still be ~95% of Salv since we would only be hitting half the group, so presumably half of the casts would go to each of 2 groups of 4. Keeping the CD but increasing the coefficient makes it more efficient, but maintains a strong player cap limitation.
  

 

You can call anything OP with anecdotes using absurd numbers (at 410 bonus healing, 4 people non-crit is 3301 for 2 Ammo. To get to ~8400 would require 1590 Bonus Healing, at a rate of 0.17 or 0.14 Bonus Healing per Power or Aim, respectively, which you absolutely do not have. Even assuming you were exaggerating and listed a 75% surge crit value, and assumed all 4 were hit with crits since they are independent, you would still need 908 Bonus Healing, which means you have something like 1600 Aim and 4025 Power/TechPower.)

 

Using reasonable numbers and the actual coefficients listed above, we see that none of the suggestions I made is particularly OP, especially in light of them as suggestions not implemented changes. Suggestions are, by definition, meant to suggest a change to someone. I would expect that if, for instance, they decided to double the coefficient while raising the cap, that they would settle on a value that gave the desired output factoring in the instant cast, need to manually target, and Ammo cost, so "double the coefficient" means "raise it to somewhere between 150%-250% of its current value."

 

We're working on Nightmare Soa, and I don't feel like I'm underpowered for it.

 

Flaws are subjective. Complaints are subjective. If someone has a problem, they should post a question instead of looking for sympathy. That's not always true, but there is nothing wrong with Commando healing right now.

 

The original poster did exactly that, he posted questions. Specifically he said:

What are people's thoughts on the Trooper feeling as though it was not meant to be a full healer?

...

Am I paranoid? Have other people had luck with healing as a Trooper?

 

He makes it clear that the imbalance is subjective, he simply feels that the Sage is doing more than him. Without combat logs that is all he can go by, so he comes here to ask if others are noticing this. You might call it complaining, or you might call it asking questions. Perhaps he was just seeking sympathy, but, without asking him, he could also simply be trying to raise awareness of an imbalance so the Devs can do something about it. If the thread was all "nope, no problem here," that would suggest it was subjective and specific to him, with no balance problem. If lots of people report the same, it suggests there may be something off.

 

If you think they are fine, just chime in and say so. There is no need to insult everyone who feels like there is an imbalance or deny that other people are experiencing one just because you personally are not.

[withonor]

You can call anything OP with anecdotes using absurd numbers

 

You're doing a good job using specific math for specific things, but you're not taking into account the whole picture of every capability of every healing class.

 

I said if I could hit four people with my Kolto Bomb, I could heal for ~8400 with two ammo. That is completely true. My Kolto Bomb crits for ~2100 on each person it hits, currently three. That doesn't even take into account the buffs Kolto Bomb applies.

 

(Completely unbuffed stats)

My Aim is: 1729.

My bonus healing is: 494.8

My crit bonus is: 35.89%.

My surge bonus is: 76.42%.

 

I really don't care if the "math" you use supports what I am saying, but my Kolto Bomb can and does crit for ~2100 on each person. In a raid, with raid buffs, my crit is over 42%. If it hits a fourth person that is ~8400 for 2 ammo with the stats I already have.

 

Based on some of your suggestions of the stats that I should have for your "math", I think you should actually play end game and stop "theorycrafting".

 

Surely, what I have said has been, some parts, in an insulting tone, but I am posting real world experience in the game. Not math or theory-crafting.

[RuQu]

You're doing a good job using specific math for specific things, but you're not taking into account the whole picture of every capability of every healing class.

 

I said if I could hit four people with my Kolto Bomb, I could heal for ~8400 with two ammo. That is completely true. My Kolto Bomb crits for ~2100 on each person it hits, currently three. That doesn't even take into account the buffs Kolto Bomb applies.

 

(Completely unbuffed stats)

My Aim is: 1729.

My bonus healing is: 494.8

My crit bonus is: 35.89%.

My surge bonus is: 76.42%.

 

I really don't care if the "math" you use supports what I am saying, but my Kolto Bomb can and does crit for ~2100 on each person. In a raid, with raid buffs, my crit is over 42%. If it hits a fourth person that is ~8400 for 2 ammo with the stats I already have.

 

Factoring in the 20% bonus to KB from the Gunnery tree and adding 15% Surge from Potent Medicine, your crits should hit for 2106 per person. However, you should only expect to hit 1.4 people out of 4 for a crit, with your crit rate, so ~8400 is still an exaggeration. To get the expected heal, you should take Heal*[(1-critRate) + critRate*(1+Surge)].

 

Your expected KB heal, per person, is 1.2*916.97*(1-0.3589)+.3589*(1+0.7642+0.15)) = 1461.41.

 

It is that number that you can multiply by 4, which factors into itself the expected 1.4 people who will, on average, see a crit per cast. That number is 5845.64 for 4 people or 4384.23 for 3 people, for 2 Ammo. This is well below ~8400.

 

You can do the same thing for the other classes.

 

Sages get 6% crit from talents, to our 9, but they get a 6% bonus healing. They get 2% to all heals, and 10% to AoE. They get no surge boost.

 

Salv Base heal per person becomes 3318.22, with crit and healing modifiers that becomes 4654.06.

 

Scoundrels: 30% Surge to KC. 12% to healing assuming UH is up, 10% to HoTs, and 6% crit.

 

KC is 1615 Base. With crit we get 2180.42. With healing multipliers this becomes 2660.1 healing per person, per cast.

 

So let's put those where we can see them:

Salv: 4654.06

KB: 1461.41

KC: 2660.1

 

But this is on a per cast basis, which isn't exactly fair, since KB is cheap and has the shortest cooldown, so lets again look at 30s of delivered healing, which is 5KB, 3 Salv, and 2 KC.

 

Salv: 13962.18

KB: 7307.05 (52.33%)

KC: 5320.21 (38.10%)

 

That is per person, including all class buffs that are relevant, using your gear and reducing the crit for Sage/Scoundrel by 3% since their trees add 6 instead of 9.

 

All of the conclusions from above still stand, it simply takes a little more time to dig up and factor in all of the various class differences. Seeing the ratio change from 047:1 to 0.52:1, the only difference is to err on the <200% side of the fuzzy definition of "double the coefficient."

 

Based on some of your suggestions of the stats that I should have for your "math", I think you should actually play end game and stop "theorycrafting".

 

As was said in the previous post, the numbers were from an old post, based on the gear I had at the time. If you can't follow or dislike "math" and "theory" than you should really avoid "theorizing" about what will and will not make a class OP. You might not care what the math says, but the game does...it's just a pretty graphic interface on a whole lot of math.

 

Surely, what I have said has been, some parts, in an insulting tone, but I am posting real world experience in the game. Not math or theory-crafting.

 

You are posting in-game subjective anecdotes, and poorly extrapolating them out based on the most simplistic of assumptions while accusing others of oversimplifying.

 

Try knowing exactly what you are talking about, and fully understanding it, before being insulting. Better yet, try just not being insulting. It is possible to disagree with people politely.

[withonor]

You are posting in-game subjective anecdotes, and poorly extrapolating them out based on the most simplistic of assumptions while accusing others of oversimplifying.

 

Try knowing exactly what you are talking about, and fully understanding it, before being insulting. Better yet, try just not being insulting. It is possible to disagree with people politely.

 

You're posting out of game theory-crafted math. Come back to reality and we can talk.

[RuQu]

You're posting out of game theory-crafted math. Come back to reality and we can talk.

 

I posted the math that exactly confirmed your reported 2100 KB, and then explained why a single crit does not scale up to 8400.

 

If you are unwilling to have a constructive discussion or to acknowledge that there is value to using evidence and numbers to back an argument than we have nothing else to say to each other.

 

Although I must say, the irony of your name amuses me.

[EthicsGradient]

I really don't care if the "math" you use supports what I am saying, but my Kolto Bomb can and does crit for ~2100 on each person. In a raid, with raid buffs, my crit is over 42%. If it hits a fourth person that is ~8400 for 2 ammo with the stats I already have.

 

Based on some of your suggestions of the stats that I should have for your "math", I think you should actually play end game and stop "theorycrafting".

 

"crit" = "hit" when it's convenient then?

 

With 42% crit chance your chance for a quadruple-crit is 3.1%... oh but that's "math".

[Mystletein]

You're posting out of game theory-crafted math. Come back to reality and we can talk.

 

Easiest way to end this argument would be a screenshot ;D

[RuQu]

Easiest way to end this argument would be a screenshot ;D

 

At least two, both showing all 3 KB hits as crits, since I acknowledge a single 2106 is reasonable. And with time stamps, showing they happened near each other in time, since it is such a common occurrence.

Edited February 28, 2012 by RuQu

[Gezzer]

At least two, both showing all 3 KB hits as crits, since I acknowledge a single 2106 is reasonable. And with time stamps, showing they happened near each other in time, since it is such a common occurrence.

 

Troll 0, Math 1

[Spero-Mcgee]

http://imgur.com/b7vnL

 

Trooper healing for you. Anyone who says we are bad at pvp is either bad or doesn't understand the class.

 

PvE is another story.

 

For the ones that can't read it, it's 643k I average around 400-500k a game. I don't have a single BM gear piece and I'm rank 55 with 530 expertise.

 

For Pve we need our AoE heal to be stronger just a little bit. Maybe heal 4 at a time and we're good.

 

Wow gj m8. I got around 270K healing on my scoundrel at think it was lvl 40-42 (am 44).

We also won. (not sure if it was a draw but still great

If I could do just as well at lvl 50, I can only begin to imagine what a difference I could make with at least centurion/champ gear. Considering the lack of healers to begin with every now and then, just myself being around will make a difference.

Just like I notice when I manage to guard alot of damage with my vanguard tank spec.

I do hope patch 1.2 brings a bit more medals to us healers if I get MVP every game that be great but since those tend to go to the dps, just getting about 4 medals if I mostly focused on healing isnt great for my personal progression especially if it was a somewhat good game but a loss.

 

While in PVP as a scoundrel I notice I have to run around alot to get into range just to put kolto cloud(costs 30 energy) around on people + slow release medpac( 2 x 15) needs to stay on either me or at least on one person at all times so I keep getting Upper Hand procs. Which I then either use for pugnacity or kolto pack or Emergency Medpac.

The biggest danger in all of this, is that basicly I'm out in the open vunerable to attacks from any angle. It would help immensely if the radius on kolto cloud was bigger.

If I targeted someone that for a moment moves away from others I may end up using kolto cloud on just 1 person in stead of an intended use of say (max) 4 people.

Occasionly I myself just run into another person or people and then use it on myself, but the dangers I mentioned above still exist.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Spero-Mcgee

[Big_rich]

At level 50 medic with some columi gear I crit heal @4k+ pretty regular. Med probe has healed as high as 4500 with a cast time of only 1.61 seconds. That's a lot of healing and damage mitigation your putting out while SCC and kolto bomb are active. I feel that if they would make kolto bomb a raid heal with low healing plus the buffs we get from SCC we'd be perfect for the role we are designed to play. In PVP though, I can never seem to outheal a sorc/sage I'm always second on the list.(I have no real PVP gear though)

[EthicsGradient]

At level 50 medic with some columi gear I crit heal @4k+ pretty regular. Med probe has healed as high as 4500 with a cast time of only 1.61 seconds. That's a lot of healing and damage mitigation your putting out while SCC and kolto bomb are active. I feel that if they would make kolto bomb a raid heal with low healing plus the buffs we get from SCC we'd be perfect for the role we are designed to play. In PVP though, I can never seem to outheal a sorc/sage I'm always second on the list.(I have no real PVP gear though)

 

Sorc/sage also have the pvp advantage of their shield counting as healing done while not being reduced by 30% by trauma debuff. Helps them on the scoreboard

[withonor]

I love feeding the forum dwellers. I crit a Med Probe for 6995. It was on Nightmare Puzzle boss in Karagga's Palace. The other healer was a Scoundrel.

[Savari]

That 15% crit increased healing done is big if you're geared right to make the most of it. Admittedly, as I'm leveling I tend to be endurance stacked with some focus on crit/surge, but not a lot. At 42 presently I've never had issues healing any of the flash points so far. AoE healing can be a bit tricky, but the +% healing from Kolto Bomb stacked with the 10% reduced damage when you use it during supercharge cell isn't that bad. As I've told others Kolto Bomb isn't an end all AoE skill... would be weird if it was. What it is (imo) is a way to add some temp buffs to ease up your job.

 

AMP + MP for 3 ammo? More than enough combined to generally keep up my tank without spamming it and using hammershot. Trauma Probe helps, not a god send, only a few hundred healed at lvl 42, but every bit counts. While the Sage is much more a straight forward healer with fewer tactics attached, it doesn't mean its the better healer. Given the different situations groups will find themselves in, each of the three healer's have a point where they're strongest, one where they're weakest.

 

While force armor negates all damage for a few seconds, trauma probe (once every 3) applies a small heal that helps negate damage. Not huge, but helpful. The trooper heals could use some minor changes potentially to help bring them up, but the difference as a whole isn't large enough I'm going to drop my commando and grab a sage. lol

[RuQu]

That 15% crit increased healing done is big if you're geared right to make the most of it. Admittedly, as I'm leveling I tend to be endurance stacked with some focus on crit/surge, but not a lot. At 42 presently I've never had issues healing any of the flash points so far. AoE healing can be a bit tricky, but the +% healing from Kolto Bomb stacked with the 10% reduced damage when you use it during supercharge cell isn't that bad. As I've told others Kolto Bomb isn't an end all AoE skill... would be weird if it was. What it is (imo) is a way to add some temp buffs to ease up your job.

 

Each healer only has one AoE ability. If they want all the healers to be viable in any combination (and they have said that's the intention) then they need to allow the different tools to do the same job.

 

Look at the pillars on the first boss of EV. You group up behind them when he fires his missiles, and then everyone hides while the healers top you off. Kolto Bomb is nearly worthless back there, because you can't decide who it hits. It might heal the same 3 people every time. While it is on cooldown, if you AP/MP two people and now they are full, there is no stopping KB from putting 2 of its 3 heals on those two, while someone else is still at 20%.

 

KB has a 6s cooldown. Salvation has a 12s. Salv hits 8 people, KB hits 3. Increase KB to 4, give it smart healing. Now I can toss down two KBs behind the pillars and know the 4 lowest people will always be healed. If I toss it twice and do nothing else, I should have healed everyone once, just like Salv, over a 12s period. So now that we are approaching parity there, the healing on KB needs to be increased, because it currently does 47-52% of the healing of Salv, per person, in the same time. True, KB is instant, but with standard levels of Alacrity, Salv takes 1.5s of standing still which is not unreasonable. Options are to increase the coefficient so KB does something on the order of 80% of Salv in the same time period, or cut the CD on KB to 3s, which would let us do 4 of them in the time of one Salv, which, with a new 4 player cap and assuming smart healing, would give near complete parity, but would double the cost to do so compared to raising the coefficient (cause you are casting twice as much at regular strength, instead of regular casts at double strength).

 

AMP + MP for 3 ammo? More than enough combined to generally keep up my tank without spamming it and using hammershot. Trauma Probe helps, not a god send, only a few hundred healed at lvl 42, but every bit counts. While the Sage is much more a straight forward healer with fewer tactics attached, it doesn't mean its the better healer. Given the different situations groups will find themselves in, each of the three healer's have a point where they're strongest, one where they're weakest.

 

AP+MP is nearly identical to the Scoundrel UWM+EMP combo (25% of resources, UWM and MP have the exact same coefficients and base heals, the only change is a reversed order and EMP doesn't apply an armor buff or a tiny HoT). The primary nuke heals are all fairly balanced, roughly the same cast times, identical coefficients (Deliverance is a higher coefficient, but, when corrected for the extra 0.5s cast time, it is identical).

 

Currently Commando is, arguably, the strongest tank healer, and Sage is, unarguably, the strongest raid group healer and, some maintain, better than Commando at tank healing. No non-trolls are arguing that Commandos make better raid group healers, and no non-trolls are arguing that an equally skilled and geared Scoundrel has any niche where it exceeds the other two.

 

While force armor negates all damage for a few seconds, trauma probe (once every 3) applies a small heal that helps negate damage. Not huge, but helpful. The trooper heals could use some minor changes potentially to help bring them up, but the difference as a whole isn't large enough I'm going to drop my commando and grab a sage. lol

 

Force Armor can be viewed two ways, as a mitigation tool or as an instant heal.

 

Some argue it is a mitigation tool, like Trauma Probe, because it prevents damage. If so, it should be balanced against Trauma Probe (our reactive heal), and Scoundrel's HoTs. All three are ways to slow down incoming damage. When doing such balance, HoTs should be balanced to provide the best healing, since they are non-reactive, and tend to do significant overhealing. If your HoT ticks every second, and the tank goes 95%, 100%, 90%, 95% for his health for a given period, the tick at 100% was wasted entirely. This wouldn't happen to Trauma Probe, which only ticks when he gets hit, or Force Armor, which absorbs a set amount and only deducts value when he gets hit. As such, it should be obvious that the HoT should be the most powerful, even if that means giving Scoundrels a new HoT that can only be on one target. Because Trauma Probe only applies a small heal on a hit, and Force Armor completely negates a hit, I would, off the cuff, suggest that Force Armor should be the weakest of the three, but that doesn't factor in the 21s debuff that prevents it from reapplying or the 30s minimum time on Trauma Probe. I don't have the time right now to really go into the math to do a comparison of their mitigation over a similar time frame, but that is a balance question that should be asked and addressed. Currently the HoT is the weakest mitigation heal, and the numbers are still out on TP vs FA for the tank on which is stronger.

 

On the other hand, Force Armor also serves as an instant heal. It can be placed on as many targets as you like. It is an instant saver of a person about to die, and it has a coefficient larger than any other heal. Admittedly, as far as I know, it cannot crit, so it needs a larger coefficient, but at current gear levels it is comparable to a 100% crit rate ~75% surge Bacta Infusion, and while it can only be cast on the same person every 21 seconds, BI can only be cast at all every 21s. The math has been done previously (by me, in this thread I think, but its around here somewhere). In short, simply compare the coefficients for the class instant heals:

 

Force Armor: 3.27.

Bacta Infusion: 2.28

Emergency Medpac: 1.37

 

Note that Hammer Shot has a coefficient of 1, but no base heal. The base heal of EMP is 481.78, which means that the Scoundrel instant "burst healing" ability heals for roughly double Hammer Shot, which is laughably weak, and scales almost as poorly.

 

So that puts Sages as #1 for AoE and group heals, #1 or #2 for mitigation heals for the tank, #1 for instant abilities (by a long shot), and enrage timers ensure that their resource doesn't need to be managed.

 

I'm not dropping my Commando for a Sage either (I find them terribly boring), and our Ops really do best with me on the tanks and our Sage on the group at the moment. That I am not dropping it, or that I love the class, doesn't mean I'm obligated to insist everything is sunshine and roses. Things can always be better. And the fact that I'm a Commando doesn't mean I have to ignore the other classes. Scoundrels are clearly worse off than Commandos are. And, to be fair, I think that Sages probably need some work too (most of their DPS animations are terrible, its why I stopped leveling my TK at 33), its just that it is hard to see what they need fixing when they shine so much brighter than the others. I would suggest that they perhaps need some work to make their resource interesting and non-trivial. Some might call it a nerf because needing to worry about it makes healing harder, but I'd call it a buff because not falling asleep playing them makes them a better class.

[Bluetickone]

I love feeding the forum dwellers. I crit a Med Probe for 6995. It was on Nightmare Puzzle boss in Karagga's Palace. The other healer was a Scoundrel.

 

meh highest I notced last night was 7.8k (obviously post surge nerf). we routinely run double CMs in NM. KB/Tech adrenal/SCC/power relic is a serious burst heal -- time it right and you can top 12k in gcd.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Bluetickone

[VelnikSP]

The question is, if force armor deflects damage before or after shields, before or after deflection, and before or after armor reduction.

 

If ti takes damage before any of those, Than the reactive heal actually comes a little closer in efficiency on heavier-defended teammates. I know that force armor can be dropped instantly by some heavier-hitting attacks.

Edited February 28, 2012 by VelnikSP