Eldren Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Lol, not in any way. You said you would be "inclined to say something". I'm asking "Why?". I said I'd be inclined to say something. It doesn't mean I actually would, which is why I put back in the rest of my statement that you so conveniently attempted to ignore because it would destroy your attempt to refute my position. If you're going to quote someone, do it so that the context of what they said is maintained, otherwise you just wind up looking foolish. From a personal perspective I wouldn't roll Need on something just to sell it, though I feel someone doing so is justified in doing so if they perceive they actually need the amount of money the sale would generate. You'll also note, however, that in addition to my not saying I definitely would say anything, I also didn't start threatening blacklisting, General channel slander, etc., all the threats folks continue to make to convince people that they should only roll Need if they have the approval of their party members. Care to try again? You're 0 for 1 so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irusan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I am seeing a lot of people on here saying "If I want it, for any reason, I click need." Either The Harbinger is somehow magically repelling these people or they are just trolling. Seriously. I have a lvl 50, a 31, and a 19. I havn't ONCE seen someone roll for a companion or just take something that their class didn't need without first asking the group. Not even once. I have grouped multiple times for every flashpoint and have done almost every heroic quest with the required size groups. It simply doesn't happen nearly as much as these people would lead you to believe. People taking loot like that would, almost always, be removed from the group and placed on ignore. They would quickly have serious trouble getting groups with no LFD to hide behind. This is not acceptable behavior and they know it. You may stop being trolled now. But I have 10 more minutes at work and I am enjoying my being trolled all over the place!!! Edited January 31, 2012 by Irusan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 /Deflect Well played. If you can produce a valid argument I will certainly debate it with you. Ho-ever, I can go back say 5 pages and post every thing you have said which has nearly always ended up as you play your way and everyone else play theirs. Now if you have something constructive to add, I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalnight Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If it's a valid need it's a valid need, whether there are 2 reasons of validity or 10. That's not an answer. And by that logic there should not even be need before greed, but only 1 type of roll and pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Rammie_ Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Some people need to go back to WoW where they don't have to think. Their minds cannot comprehend the complexity of companions and moddable gear. In WoW they'll have Blizzard restricting their options AND they have addons telling them what to do. Here in SWTOR, an upgrade in any form is viable for a need roll, whether it be mods, looks or just stats. It's irrelevant 'who can use it more'. You helped killing the boss, you're entitled to roll. That said, rolling need for cash is rude. Viable, but rude. And people, please understand, just because need is a viable roll on quite some occasions, that doesn't mean people roll need every single time Also, winning a roll does not make you a ninja. Taking (stealing) loot with master loot makes you one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just the universal rule that most seem to be familiar with: Don't be a d**k. /sighs and rolls his eyes far more dramatically than you. How can you apply a universal ideal to a new game such as ToR that has companions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That's not an answer. And by that logic there should not even be need before greed, but only 1 type of roll and pass. Well we did advocate removing 'need' altogether. it would remove the 'my need is greater than your need' argument or the 'my need is greater than your companion'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Rammie_ Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) How can you apply a universal ideal to a new game such as ToR that has companions? Not all people can cope with innovation. Some people want nothing but the same old mediocrity with the occasional reskin. Edited January 31, 2012 by _Rammie_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That's not an answer. And by that logic there should not even be need before greed, but only 1 type of roll and pass. How is it not an answer? Validity of the need is actually the real answer. Now, if you don't understand the differences between a need and greed roll I can't help with that. It's been explained ad nauseam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Just the universal rule that most seem to be familiar with: Don't be a d**k. /sighs and rolls his eyes far more dramatically than you. Sorry, but you are not a universe - you are an individual and have your own mind - speak up if you want me to not play by the default rules of the game or I will just play by the default rules of the game. Edited January 31, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowkai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I said I'd be inclined to say something. It doesn't mean I actually would, which is why I put back in the rest of my statement that you so conveniently attempted to ignore because it would destroy your attempt to refute my position. If you're going to quote someone, do it so that the context of what they said is maintained, otherwise you just wind up looking foolish. From a personal perspective I wouldn't roll Need on something just to sell it, though I feel someone doing so is justified in doing so if they perceive they actually need the amount of money the sale would generate. You'll also note, however, that in addition to my not saying I definitely would say anything, I also didn't start threatening blacklisting, General channel slander, etc., all the threats folks continue to make to convince people that they should only roll Need if they have the approval of their party members. Care to try again? You're 0 for 1 so far. So you won't answer the question as to "why" you would be "inclined" to say something, but likely would not. Shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellison Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm going to try to explain a situation i had as simply as possible in what we'll call "ROFLSTADIUM". Just because we can. Try to bear with me here. A wild Sith inquisitor appears! Sith inquisitor requests to join your party. You accept. [Enter Combat] Sith inquisitor uses "BRB FOOD HERE" in the middle of combat! Sith inquisitor fainted. Imperial agent uses heal! It's super effective! You were healed. Bounty Hunter uses Tracer missile spam! It's not very effective. Boss uses knockback! Bounty hunter falls! Bounty hunter fainted. You use "IMAD" rage. It's super effective! Roflboss fainted. Sith inquisitor revives itself. You use loot. Roflboss drops a [iNSERT KEWL ITEM OF YOUR CLASS HERE]. You use "Need", BH uses "Pass", IA uses "Greed!" Sith Inquisitor uses "Need"! It's super effective. Sith inquisitor wins your gear! Sith Inquisitor says, "Companion." :/ Poke-sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowkai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If you can produce a valid argument I will certainly debate it with you. Ho-ever, I can go back say 5 pages and post every thing you have said which has nearly always ended up as you play your way and everyone else play theirs. Now if you have something constructive to add, I'm all ears. Hilarious. You guys love to use the "I'm not going to play any more!" when someone calls you on your own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sorry, but you are not a universe - you are an individual and have your own mind - speak up if you want me to know what's on your mind or I will just play by the default rules of the game. You do realize it's difficult for some people to speak up in groups? They don't want to feel rejected so they prefer to stay silent, even though they object to something within the group dynamic. It's easier to come here as the individual and tell everyone off, than it is to face the ramifications of acting like a jerk on their own servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irusan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 How can you apply a universal ideal to a new game such as ToR that has companions? OK this is my last post today since I can go home and actually play......but you do understand what the adjective "universal" means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't personally roll 'need' for companions when I group. But I will defend other people's right to do so. A 'roll' is by nature impartial. Asking for anything else is asking the system to favor your personal playstyle over all others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So you won't answer the question as to "why" you would be "inclined" to say something, but likely would not. Shocking. Your reading comprehension seems to be seriously lacking. I answered the "Why", but if you can't understand it, there's nothing I can do to assist you, save perhaps to recommend some remedial reading courses to brush up on comprehension. That's, of course, your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowkai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 How is it not an answer? Validity of the need is actually the real answer. Now, if you don't understand the differences between a need and greed roll I can't help with that. It's been explained ad nauseam. Right. Some people can rationalize "Need" in any of a thousand ways. Very convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A 'roll' is by nature impartial. Asking for anything else is asking the system to favor your personal playstyle over all others. This! ^^^^^ May I place this quote by you in my signature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Right. Some people can rationalize "Need" in any of a thousand ways. Very convenient. Rationality is not the same as validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You do realize it's difficult for some people to speak up in groups? They don't want to feel rejected so they prefer to stay silent, even though they object to something within the group dynamic. It's easier to come here as the individual and tell everyone off, than it is to face the ramifications of acting like a jerk on their own servers. According to cricca group dynamiv doesnt exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowkai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Your reading comprehension seems to be seriously lacking. I answered the "Why", but if you can't understand it, there's nothing I can do to assist you, save perhaps to recommend some remedial reading courses to brush up on comprehension. That's, of course, your choice. Blah blah ad hominem. More hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowkai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Rationality is not the same as validity. And validity is of course completely subjective, which leads us into this circular argument. Like I said before, different types of gamers. Some play with a certain gaming ethic, and some choose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Blah blah ad hominem. More hypocrisy. I find it amusing that you'd accuse someone of ad hominem attacks when you did the same a bit earlier. You're also going to have to show me how you've actually been attacked. I definitely questioned your reading comprehension, because you indicated I didn't provide an answer to your question when I pointedly did. But questioning your capabilities isn't an attack, much less an ad hominem one. If you think it is, I might perhaps recommend reading up on terms before you use them so you're confident of their actual definition and use. This said, it doesn't remove the reality of this actual discussion: if you're in the group, you're the sole one with the right to determine your rationale for rolling on something you helped generate (via defeating the boss that dropped it), and you have zero right to determine whether someone else's rationale is "acceptable" or not. And validity is of course completely subjective, which leads us into this circular argument. Like I said before, different types of gamers. Some play with a certain gaming ethic, and some choose not to. Note how he uses charged words like "ethic" so he can cast aspersions on views different from his own without actually having to come right out and say it. There are no ethics in video gaming. Video gaming is morally agnostic. If you choose to ascribe moral or ethical value to something, that's just fine, but it doesn't obligate others to agree with those values, nor does it make those values objectively right for anyone save yourself. Edited January 31, 2012 by Eldren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) According to crica group dynamics don't exist The ability to speak up in party chat if you want a change/amendment to the default group loot rules exists. Since it is not possible for players to be able to read your mind, you can not fault anyone but yourself for other players not knowing you wanted a change/amendment to the default group loot rules if you choose to not use the ability to speak up in party chat about it. Edited January 31, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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