Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

[Setanian]

Have you played other MMOs? Why have more than one button that just says [Need]?

 

People are using companions as an excuse to rewrite OLD guidelines about NBG.

 

Rationalize it all you like. I just hope to not group with folks like you.

 

Guidelines are just that, guidelines. They are not fact/law/rules or anything of the kind.

 

But, you are taking them as such, and anyone who does not agree with you is not grouping with you. because, as we all now by now, you dictate what others players have to do if they want to group with you.

[jterlecki]

What more of a definition do you require?

 

If you need the item, you roll need.

If you do not need it, but would like it, you roll greed,

if you have no use for it all, you pass.

 

 

Is there something there you do not understand?

 

That is pretty much the system our guild uses. Now we have it written as a guild rule (including what constitutes a need), and each new member is explained how we work and operate. If you are having problems with guildmates, then make sure rules are written in stone (or durasteel).

 

However, with PUGs, I wish you the best of luck. Now I have been mostly fortunate and did not have any overtly greedy individuals in my parties, but I know they are out there. However, sadly, you won't be able to prevent people for rolling NEED on everything. Best you can do is remember their names and if they pop up again, don't include them in parties.

[Setanian]

We aren't ninjas. It's just that we could choose to be ninjas should the moment call for it.

 

Got it.

 

You guys are hilarious.

 

Seriously, play how you like. I'll just try to avoid your types as best I can.

 

Assumption based on zero fact, used to promote ones losing argument by either using sarcasm or casting dispersion upon character.

[Varghjerta]

Guidelines are just that, guidelines. They are not fact/law/rules or anything of the kind.

 

But, you are taking them as such, and anyone who does not agree with you is not grouping with you. because, as we all now by now, you dictate what others players have to do if they want to group with you.

 

And you do need a law to know how to behave against other people

 

 

In that case do please seek help if you do think this

Edited January 31, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Setanian]

That seems to indeed be the case with this crowd.

 

[Need]

 

Again, false assumptions. I notice how you omit the part where you want to dictate what the rest of the crowd do..

[Shadowkai]

Guidelines are just that, guidelines. They are not fact/law/rules or anything of the kind.

 

But, you are taking them as such, and anyone who does not agree with you is not grouping with you. because, as we all now by now, you dictate what others players have to do if they want to group with you.

 

That is correct. I have a choice who I group with, as do you. We'll just both have to go our own way and play in a style that suits us.

 

So like I said, I'm just a different type of gamer than you. No one but you can dictate how you will play.

[Irusan]

That seems to indeed be the case with this crowd.

 

[Need]

 

In a nutshell, yes. I am starting to think they are just eloquently trolling and I am bored at work so I am allowing myself to BE trolled. I manage to gear my companion pretty decently from solo content and the GTN. Rolling need for her (Kaliyo) doesn't really cross my mind in groups. If a thing with her stats did drop and there wasn't a BH in the group I would ASK if it was OK to need it for her. And if not, I would be fine with the luck of the greed roll. And if I REALLY wanted that piece for her I would offer to buy it from whoever did win it if they weren't going to use it. Alt rolls? Same thing. But in the world they are trying to create, just NEED on everything, if a companion cant use it you may have an alt that can. Or you may make one someday.

 

I mean really, do the basic rules of life need to be taught here? Sharing? Doing the right thing is it's own reward, folks, and karma is a m*******cker.

[Varghjerta]

Again, false assumptions. I notice how you omit the part where you want to dictate what the rest of the crowd do..

I would say you are pretty alone ................................

[Setanian]

That is pretty much the system our guild uses. Now we have it written as a guild rule (including what constitutes a need), and each new member is explained how we work and operate. If you are having problems with guildmates, then make sure rules are written in stone (or durasteel).

 

However, with PUGs, I wish you the best of luck. Now I have been mostly fortunate and did not have any overtly greedy individuals in my parties, but I know they are out there. However, sadly, you won't be able to prevent people for rolling NEED on everything. Best you can do is remember their names and if they pop up again, don't include them in parties.

 

if someone rolls need consistently, one would say greedy git. But! even so, they got a chance to roll like everyone else, and they won.

 

If I'm in group and someone is pressing need every roll, then sure as heck, as soon as i notice it, I ask, and then roll need too.

[ikinai]

Etiquette threads are really pointless. A good memory and an ignore list are the ways to go here.

 

Someone with good etiquette doesn't ignore people. I have never had a problem with loot. If I didn't win a roll, my loss, no big deal. It's just pretty pixels. I move on. I also don't black list people over loot, to me that is simply childish behavior. Again, I simply move on with my time.

[Shadowkai]

In a nutshell, yes. I am starting to think they are just eloquently trolling and I am bored at work so I am allowing myself to BE trolled. I manage to gear my companion pretty decently from solo content and the GTN. Rolling need for her (Kaliyo) doesn't really cross my mind in groups. If a thing with her stats did drop and there wasn't a BH in the group I would ASK if it was OK to need it for her. And if not, I would be fine with the luck of the greed roll. And if I REALLY wanted that piece for her I would offer to buy it from whoever did win it if they weren't going to use it. Alt rolls? Same thing. But in the world they are trying to create, just NEED on everything, if a companion cant use it you may have an alt that can. Or you may make one someday.

 

I mean really, do the basic rules of life need to be taught here? Sharing? Doing the right thing is it's own reward, folks, and karma is a m*******cker.

 

And I'd be happy to group with you

[Setanian]

I would say you are pretty alone ................................

 

I'm the only one of the entire player base that thinks no-one has the right to dictate terms to other players?

 

The fact this thread is in it's 3rd? incarnation proves you wrong.

[crica]

I mean really, do the basic rules of life need to be taught here?

 

Nope - but obviously, ppl need to be able to read your mind and know what loot rules you would prefer to use if they group with you, because you sure as heck are not going to speak up and let them know.

 

/rolls her eyes

 

Most ppl I know do not consider grouping with players who play a video game for a different reason then they do a waste of time - as long as they are willing to play the rules of the game and do not negatively impact the game for anyone.

Edited January 31, 2012 by crica

[Shadowkai]

if someone rolls need consistently, one would say greedy git. But! even so, they got a chance to roll like everyone else, and they won.

 

If I'm in group and someone is pressing need every roll, then sure as heck, as soon as i notice it, I ask, and then roll need too.

 

Why would you ask? Don't let them dictate how you play the game! Right?

[Eldren]

Why? Anything is a valid Need with your playstyle? Loot for credits. Loot for mods. Loot for companions. Heck, loot for friends and guildies you play with as they are certainly a factor in your success in both PvE and PvP!

 

Wouldn't that be a BIT hypocritical to suddenly raise concern about how someone else is playing the game?

 

Nice way to misquote me there. So let's put down what I actually said in its entirety with the portion you quoted:

 

This last instance is about the only time I'd be inclined to say something, and I still might not, because other players still get to determine their needs better than I can.

 

Sort of blows your attempted deconstruction of my perspective out of the water now, doesn't it?

 

Context matters.

[ispanolfw]

In a nutshell, yes. I am starting to think they are just eloquently trolling and I am bored at work so I am allowing myself to BE trolled. I manage to gear my companion pretty decently from solo content and the GTN. Rolling need for her (Kaliyo) doesn't really cross my mind in groups. If a thing with her stats did drop and there wasn't a BH in the group I would ASK if it was OK to need it for her. And if not, I would be fine with the luck of the greed roll. And if I REALLY wanted that piece for her I would offer to buy it from whoever did win it if they weren't going to use it. Alt rolls? Same thing. But in the world they are trying to create, just NEED on everything, if a companion cant use it you may have an alt that can. Or you may make one someday.

 

I mean really, do the basic rules of life need to be taught here? Sharing? Doing the right thing is it's own reward, folks, and karma is a m*******cker.

 

Except unless it's a BoE you can't buy from the winner. Don't have the 1 hour window like WoW gives you now. And no, we're not saying need on everything, only what you feel you need. You may see them as the same, but they're quite different. And you know, if you wish the play that way, no one is stopping you. The system in place gives more freedom, but your choice is yours. So if you want those restrictions say so, group leader or not. I know if I wanted something different than what the system in place provided i'd say something or group with people who I knew already agreed. Not group anyways and call foul later without bringing it up.

[Shadowkai]

Nice way to misquote me there. So let's put down what I actually said in its entirety with the portion you quoted:

 

Sort of blows your attempted deconstruction of my perspective out of the water now, doesn't it?

 

Context matters.

 

Lol, not in any way. You said you would be "inclined to say something". I'm asking "Why?".

[Tygranir]

I am seeing a lot of people on here saying "If I want it, for any reason, I click need."

 

Either The Harbinger is somehow magically repelling these people or they are just trolling.

 

Seriously. I have a lvl 50, a 31, and a 19. I havn't ONCE seen someone roll for a companion or just take something that their class didn't need without first asking the group. Not even once. I have grouped multiple times for every flashpoint and have done almost every heroic quest with the required size groups. It simply doesn't happen nearly as much as these people would lead you to believe.

 

People taking loot like that would, almost always, be removed from the group and placed on ignore. They would quickly have serious trouble getting groups with no LFD to hide behind. This is not acceptable behavior and they know it. You may stop being trolled now.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Tygranir

[Eternalnight]

What more of a definition do you require?

 

If you need the item, you roll need.

If you do not need it, but would like it, you roll greed,

if you have no use for it all, you pass.

 

 

Is there something there you do not understand?

 

Define "need"

 

Need before greed system was originally created for older games where there really were only 2 real reasons why you might want to have item.

 

1. You want the item because it you can use it and it is better than what you currently have

2. You want to sell it to vendor for some game currency

 

Without offspecs, companions or modifiable gear that simple system was pretty good, even though millions of people did not follow it, and need rolled everything, at least everyone knew that how it was intended was 1=need and 2=greed as there really were no other possibilities.

 

 

Now in modern games we have at least 10 possible reasons to want the item

 

1. You want the item because it you can use it on your main character and it is better than what you currently have

2. You want the item because it makes you look pretty. The stats are crap, but you can replace the mods in it to fix that

3. You want the item, even though you cant use the item itself, you can use some of the mods in it

4. You want the item for your companion

6. You want a BoE item for an alt

7. You want a BoE to trade it to another player for various reasons

8. Item is not upgrade for your current spec and role, but you want to have it for another spec (even though there is no dual spec in this game (at least not yet) you may still want to roll for another spec if you plan to re-spec "soon")

9. You want to sell the item to vendor for a small amount of credits

10. You want the item for some other reason that I cant think of right now.

 

So now that we have 10 possible reasons want an something instead of just 2, it is not as clear anymore when we still have only 2 types of rolls. And there is no clear implications at all anywhere as to which of these belong to which category of rolls.

[Varghjerta]

Why would you ask? Don't let them dictate how you play the game! Right?

 

Better question would be why didnt he roll need everyone else did?

[ikinai]

Define "need"

 

Need before greed system was originally created for older games where there really were only 2 real reasons why you might want to have item.

 

1. You want the item because it you can use it and it is better than what you currently have

2. You want to sell it to vendor for some game currency

 

Without offspecs, companions or modifiable gear that simple system was pretty good, even though millions of people did not follow it, and need rolled everything, at least everyone knew that how it was intended was 1=need and 2=greed as there really were no other possibilities.

 

 

Now in modern games we have at least 10 possible reasons to want the item

 

1. You want the item because it you can use it on your main character and it is better than what you currently have

2. You want the item because it makes you look pretty. The stats are crap, but you can replace the mods in it to fix that

3. You want the item, even though you cant use the item itself, you can use some of the mods in it

4. You want the item for your companion

6. You want a BoE item for an alt

7. You want a BoE to trade it to another player for various reasons

8. Item is not upgrade for your current spec and role, but you want to have it for another spec (even though there is no dual spec in this game (at least not yet) you may still want to roll for another spec if you plan to re-spec "soon")

9. You want to sell the item to vendor for a small amount of credits

10. You want the item for some other reason that I cant think of right now.

 

So now that we have 10 possible reasons want an something instead of just 2, it is not as clear anymore when we still have only 2 types of rolls. And there is no clear implications at all anywhere as to which of these belong to which category of rolls.

 

If it's a valid need it's a valid need, whether there are 2 reasons of validity or 10.

[Setanian]

Why would you ask? Don't let them dictate how you play the game! Right?

 

You've already stated you are unwilling to change your standpoint and everyone should just not group with you. I see no point in continuing to debate anything with you.

[Shadowkai]

You've already stated you are unwilling to change your standpoint and everyone should just not group with you. I see no point in continuing to debate anything with you.

 

/Deflect

 

Well played.

[Irusan]

Nope - but obviously, ppl need to be able to read your mind and know what loot rules you would prefer to use if they group with you, because you sure as heck are not going to speak up and let them know.

 

/rolls her eyes

 

Just the universal rule that most seem to be familiar with: Don't be a d**k.

 

/sighs and rolls his eyes far more dramatically than you.

[horatio_picard]

Just want to chime in. I haven't read all the other replies. But I honestly didn't know (other than the obvious gun vs. lightsaber or something) until my third flashpoint (hammer station?) about what the difference was between the stats and the class type I was. I used a system of if I had more stat increases, regardless of stat then red decreases I rolled NEED. Relatively new MMO newb and just didn't know any better. i do now of course, and only roll need on things that upgrade my core stats. But not everyone is educated in the ways of the RPG so just cut a little slack. Especially at the lower levels.