Karen Traviss

[Kedan]

It's a figure of speech. If you're going to RP Mandalorian, you need to follow the Resol'nare.

 

No you don't.

[greycobalt]

/me says, "This is a stupid idea," in Mando'a.

 

There. I've satisfied your criterion for Mandalorian roleplay.

 

Regarding Traviss' work, there's is a very fun read here that explains, with citations from the source material, the seeming hatred that Traviss had for the Jedi. Go down until you see a long post by "YodaKenobi" and prepare to be entertained.

 

Thanks for that. I love reading some of the TFN stuff. I haven't posted there in almost a decade now. That can be one horrible 'hive of scum and villainy'. Or to be more plain, total a-holes.

 

Oh, and we should really stop arguing about the speech. It's incredibly irrelevant and I really like hearing more about the actual topic.

Edited February 2, 2012 by greycobalt

[AureliaKarrde]

Well.....

 

The Republic Commando books were good, I'll give her that.

 

The problem is that eventually the books turned into a tug-of-war between Traviss and the other writers on which faction was more super kewl leet.

 

At one point, her Mandos had lightsaber immune armor and were completely immune to the Force when they wanted to be.

 

They were also portrayed as simply being absolutely perfect, that the Mandos were the absolute epitome of everything. They were the best warriors, pilots, commanders and even farmers.

 

Generally a society that produces nothing EXCEPT warriors and products FOR war will HAVE the best warriors....And honestly, if you only had 2 things u ever did....fight and farm, don't you think you would surpass the skills of most other people with a broader range of talents?

 

This pretty much sums it up. When she was only vaguely familiar with the material, she made some good work out of the Republic Commando series. Then she decided to make them obnoxiously overpowered. Her LotF contributions read like fanfic, with superstrong armor, new special metals and amazing new, all-powerful spacecraft using an ultra-rare, much coveted ore found only on their planet that had never been cited anywhere before in the history of the EU.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron

 

Beskar was first mentioned in 1994 ....well before Karen Traviss ever started writing star wars...and its extremely durable properties were also detailed well before she started writing star wars...

 

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron

[greycobalt]

I found this post on her site, which is the reasoning in her own words...so take it for what it is. But yeah...the more I read the more she sounds like a teenage girl. It's kind of amusing at this point. Except for the whole crapping on the Jedi thing.

[AureliaKarrde]

It's a figure of speech. If you're going to RP Mandalorian, you need to follow the Resol'nare. Like a Jedi follows the Jedi Code. Within the Resol'nare a tenet is "Speak Mando'a."

 

Boba Fett is the freaking Mandalore.....and doesn't speak Mando'a..............so yeah...

[greycobalt]

Wow. Preachy McPreachalot here!

[Templeman]

The RC books are pretty good if your looking for a non-jedi centric tale. My wife loves them and pretty much everything I know about mando's comes from her books. however you have to understand that her mando's are the stars in her starwars, not the jedi.... and the Jedi really look like d*cks with that whole "slave army" thing.

 

 

All and all it was a good fun read but for my books of choice you really can't get any better then Zahn's work and this really should be the first and only thing you read.

[tausra]

 

Generally a society that produces nothing EXCEPT warriors and products FOR war will HAVE the best warriors....And honestly, if you only had 2 things u ever did....fight and farm, don't you think you would surpass the skills of most other people with a broader range of talents?

 

 

Except historically speaking agrarian societies do not need to fight. The closest comparison to the vaulted Madalorians is the Spartans, who ceased being an agrarian society to focus on military growth. You can't have it both ways, we farm peacefully and got to war better than anyone, because devotion to one means you can't do the other very well. Throughout history countries who go to war either must forsake their harvest or end their wars in time to harvest. Mandalorians seem to be so perfect they can do both simultaneously, while also having the secret to super-armor that an entire freaking galaxy doesn't know about. So are they Space-Amish Spartans?

 

The entire mandalorian history, prior to the fanfiction of Traviss, has them rising up and smashing themselves into the Republic until almost every Mandalrian died. They pillaged far out systems and planets testing their strength, so they're also Vikings. When did the Amish-Spartan-Space Vikings have time to develop that aforementioned agrarian society? As I said before they are just so aw3s0m3 that they can do everything at once, and be better than you. I've got it! Mandalorians are Space-Elves!

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CantArgueWithElves

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceElves

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProudWarriorRaceGuy

Edited February 2, 2012 by tausra

[AureliaKarrde]

Except historically speaking agrarian societies do not need to fight. The closest comparison to the vaulted Madalorians is the Spartans, who ceased being an agrarian society to focus on military growth. You can't have it both ways, we farm peacefully and got to war better than anyone, because devotion to one means you can't do the other very well. Throughout history countries who go to war either must forsake their harvest or end their wars in time to harvest. Mandalorians seem to be so perfect they can do both simultaneously, while also having the secret to super-armor that an entire freaking galaxy doesn't know about. So are they Space-Amish Spartans?

 

O, I never disagreed with anyone about her anti-jedi crapola....in fact, it probably irritates me more than you. And as far as the farming thing, if you actually read any of her mando books, you'll notice that they often point at the need for time for farming. And again, the "super-armor" wasn't the invention of Traviss. I completely disagree with the way she makes the mandos out to be impervious to jedi. They fought the vong, They know very how to kill armored beings. And these ones aren't force immune. Why didn't Caedus just reach out and start snapping necks? Jiana herself uses a force push to slam an armored Jag into a tree in the same series. And yet the Jedi seem to forget their ability to actually use the force while at the same time forgetting that they can stab those pretty glowy lightsabers into unarmored spots on those mandos. So while I completely like her portrayal of the mandalorians as super soldiers....I have serious problems with her making them the anti-jedi shocktroopers the way she has. Any competant jedi would take a mando apart. End of story.

[Smackwell]

The fact remains... its a bull **** "Language." I don't know what people want to call it, A collection of words all sharing similar traits in grammar??

 

I just don't understand why people nit-pick at things like this, It's a collection of around 1000 words so they can put words in Mandalorian's mouths in Novels and Games... Like this one for instance. It's canon.

 

I don't believe I've sat down and dissected a fake language in a fake universe in 1000 words in one sitting. I really don't care that much.

 

Right, you wouldn't care that much because you're not a linguist.

 

I'm just saying, it seems silly to you for that guy to write a billion words about a fake language, but to someone who thinks Star Wars is silly, all of us writing hundreds of posts about people in space with laser swords is silly.

 

Just putting that into perspective. I could give a crap about Mandalorians and their language anyway.

[DarthMoord]

 

Generally a society that produces nothing EXCEPT warriors and products FOR war will HAVE the best warriors....And honestly, if you only had 2 things u ever did....fight and farm, don't you think you would surpass the skills of most other people with a broader range of talents?

Name one society where the warriors are also farmers. If you say Sparta I will laugh my *** off.

 

 

 

Beskar was first mentioned in 1994 ....well before Karen Traviss ever started writing star wars...and its extremely durable properties were also detailed well before she started writing star wars...

 

And the Jedi were able to manufacture a tomb for Freedon Nadd out of it, it wasn't some super secret only Mandos could do.

[DarthMoord]

The closest comparison to the vaulted Madalorians is the Spartans, who ceased being an agrarian society to focus on military growth.

 

Well that's not true either, the Spartans had a huge slave underclass to focus on agrarian things whilst the free citizens focused on war matters..

I honestly don't care if it's considered a "certified" or "sensical" language by people. In the Star Wars Universe, it's a language and it's been used in Canon, therefore if you're going to RP a Mandalorian, you need to speak Mando'a.

 

So you freely admit to not caring about quality and you think it's okay for authors to be lazy?

 

It's quite clear that she's trying to emulate the likes of Tolkien and Marc Okrand but isn't willing to put the effort into making a working sensible language for them. It's pure laziness as there's plenty of people willing to do linguistics work and fabricate an alien language, we see it all the time.

 

Oh and by the way, the criticism of Mando'a was written by a lady.

Edited February 2, 2012 by DarthMoord

[Skapek-Skocap]

No you don't.

 

K. I'm a Jedi that murders everyone and has sex with every woman that I meet. In battle I use my hate to overcome my opponents, but I still a Jedi.

[DarthMoord]

K. I'm a Jedi that murders everyone and has sex with every woman that I meet. In battle I use my hate to overcome my opponents, but I still a Jedi.

 

No you're not, since that's quite clearly against the Jedi Code. This is like trying to say you're a vegan, but you love your nightly Big Mac.

[Skapek-Skocap]

Boba Fett is the freaking Mandalore.....and doesn't speak Mando'a..............so yeah...

 

No. He spoke Mando'a.

 

Boba Fett, as seen in Star Wars, did not speak Mando'a until later in his life.

 

 

Boba Fett was a Mandalorian:

 

Boba Fett was a Mandalorian warrior and bounty hunter.

 

 

 

Anyone who wished to be considered Mandalorian had to abide by these guidelines [Resol'nare] and live these actions daily. Mandalorians that did not follow the Resol'nare were considered to be dar'manda—someone who was ignorant of their Mandalorian heritage. The status of dar'manda was widely feared within Mandalorian society due to the belief it meant they were soulless and had no place in the Manda, the Mandalorian afterlife.

 

In order to be considered a Mandalorian, one needs to follow the Resol'nare, which means you must follow the second tenet, "Speak our language."

 

 

 

So canonly, anyone who considered themselves a true Mandalorian, spoke Mando'a.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Skapek-Skocap

[Skapek-Skocap]

No you're not, since that's quite clearly against the Jedi Code. This is like trying to say you're a vegan, but you love your nightly Big Mac.

 

Exactly.

 

Not speaking Mando'a is clearly against the Resol'nare, which are the central tenets required to be considered a Mandalorian.

 

I'm not a fanboi of Traviss, and I've only read one of her books. I thought it was alright, but I didn't love it. I'm just saying, in order to be a canon Mandalorian you need to follow the Resol'nare and the culture of the Mandalorians...

 

Or else, you'll be a vegan who eats hamburgers... It just doesn't work.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Skapek-Skocap

[Skapek-Skocap]

Right, you wouldn't care that much because you're not a linguist.

 

I'm just saying, it seems silly to you for that guy to write a billion words about a fake language, but to someone who thinks Star Wars is silly, all of us writing hundreds of posts about people in space with laser swords is silly.

 

Just putting that into perspective. I could give a crap about Mandalorians and their language anyway.

 

Which is exactly my point, I don't really care at all about the Language. I use maybe 25 words to RP with my other Mandalorian friends. I could care less if it's a real language. But canonly, it's a language the Mandalorians spoke.

 

That's all...

[Kedan]

In order to be considered a Mandalorian, one needs to follow the Resol'nare, which means you must follow the second tenet, "Speak our language."

So canonly, anyone who considered themselves a true Mandalorian, spoke Mando'a.

 

That's funny.

 

Because (BH class spoiler below):

 

 

Mandalore himself tells the BH PC that they're a Mandalorian, and all they had to do was kill a critter and accept the offer. No "How to be a Mandalorian" handbook, no rules and regulations about not eating pork or the importance of using too many apostrophes, just

 

M: "Want to be a Mandalorian?"

PC: "Ok"

M: "Yay! Party!"

 

If you've got a higher in character authority than that, I'd love to know who it is.

 

 

 

I guess you don't have to speak it to RP a Mandalorian after all.

[DarthMoord]

Not speaking Mando'a is clearly against the Resol'nare, which are the central tenets required to be considered a Mandalorian.

Yet we never hear Jango speak a word of it even when he should be alone with his sone.

 

I'm not a fanboi of Traviss,

You are. If you're defending Karen Traviss and her works or Mando'a, you are a Traviss Fanboy, because there's no rational reason to defend her.

and I've only read one of her books. I thought it was alright, but I didn't love it. I'm just saying, in order to be a canon Mandalorian you need to follow the Resol'nare and the culture of the Mandalorians...

Explicitly contradicted by every other example of a Mandalorian ever. This literally only appears in Travissty's works. Canderous wasn't speaking Mando'a to his troops on Dxun, Jango never talked it to Boba, we never hear of it in the pre-Traviss Mandalorian depictions. Hell we don't even see it in most of the post-Traviss depictions like in The clone Wars where one would expect to see Death Watch using Mando'a exclusively.

 

Or else, you'll be a vegan who eats hamburgers... It just doesn't work.

Except the Rasol'nare is ********.

[DarthMoord]

But canonly, it's a language the Mandalorians spoke.

But it's not, it's not even a cipher. There is no reason to refer to it as a language.

[JacenHallis]

Yet we never hear Jango speak a word of it even when he should be alone with his sone.

I thought Jango spoke to Boba in Mandalorian when Obi-Wan was in his apartment on Kamino, and he told Boba (in the mando language) to go shut the door so he'd not see the armor.

[Skapek-Skocap]

That's funny.

 

Because (BH class spoiler below):

 

 

Mandalore himself tells the BH PC that they're a Mandalorian, and all they had to do was kill a critter and accept the offer. No "How to be a Mandalorian" handbook, no rules and regulations about not eating pork or the importance of using too many apostrophes, just

 

M: "Want to be a Mandalorian?"

PC: "Ok"

M: "Yay! Party!"

 

If you've got a higher in character authority than that, I'd love to know who it is.

 

 

 

I guess you don't have to speak it to RP a Mandalorian after all.

 

 

Central to the Mandalorian culture were the Resol'nare, or the "Six Actions". These six tenets defined what it meant to be a Mandalorian, and any who wished to be considered as such was expected to abide by them. The Resol'nare consisted of wearing armor, speaking the Mandalorian language, defending oneself along with one's family, contributing to the welfare of your clan, rallying to the Mand'alor when summoned, and raising one's children in the Mandalorian ways. In order to retain their heritage in the face of outside influence, Mandalorians placed a high value on rigorously carrying out the Resol'nare's tenets in a daily manner

 

 

The Six Actions, or Resol'nare in Mando'a, were the central tenets of Mandalorian life. They consisted of:

 

1.Wearing armor.

2.Speaking the language.

3.Defending yourself and your family.

4.Raising your children as Mandalorians.

5.Contributing to the clan's welfare.

6.When called upon by the Mand'alor, rallying to his cause.

 

No where does a Jedi Knight in TOR have to abide by the Jedi Code, and he is still considered a Jedi. No where does a Sith Warrior in TOR need to abide by the Sith Code, and he is still considered a Sith. So I guess they don't exist either? Drawing your logic on an MMO isn't the best thing to do.

 

If you want to RP a Jedi, you must follow the Jedi Code. If you wish to RP a Sith, you must follow the Sith Code. If you wish to RP a Mandalorian, you must follow the Resol'nare. If you don't follow them, you aren't any of the above. Your merely a Force user, Gray Jedi, Renegade Sith, or Dar'manda.

 

Resol'nare is Canon.

Mando'a is Canon.

Mandalorians speaking Mando'a is Canon.

Mandalorians following the Resol'nare is Canon.

 

Thanks.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Skapek-Skocap

[Jmannseelo]

I think the lesson to be learned here is Sa'kut ne voivod ner buddi's ta'l lugnipop, ne spank'ir g'a lumin a whap bam boo.

 

Or something to that effect.

[Skapek-Skocap]

Yet we never hear Jango speak a word of it even when he should be alone with his sone.

 

He was also very intelligent, having prudent tactical skills, and was fluent in Basic, Huttese, and Mando'a.

 

Regardless, it's canon he is fluent in Mando'a. And he speaks it in the Republic Commando books. Which are also canon.

 

You are. If you're defending Karen Traviss and her works or Mando'a, you are a Traviss Fanboy, because there's no rational reason to defend her.

 

I'm not defending her. I could care less about her or her writing. But their canon and it's canon that Mandalorians follow the culture and tenets she put down. You're not even arguing anything. You're saying that because she is a bad writer, that what she said isn't canon, when it was approved by Lucas and it's canon.

 

No matter what you say can change that hahaha. I'm defending what she wrote, because it's accepted.

 

Explicitly contradicted by every other example of a Mandalorian ever. This literally only appears in Travissty's works. Canderous wasn't speaking Mando'a to his troops on Dxun, Jango never talked it to Boba, we never hear of it in the pre-Traviss Mandalorian depictions. Hell we don't even see it in most of the post-Traviss depictions like in The clone Wars where one would expect to see Death Watch using Mando'a exclusively.

 

The only reason Canderous doesn't speak it at the time, was the books weren't written yet. Once again, regardless of what you think, the Resol'nare was followed by every true Mandalorian. The supercommando codex used by Jango and Boba mirror it, and Canderous and the Mandalorians in the Neo-Crusaders all followed it.

 

This is an example of the Resol'nare in the Mandalorian Wars:

 

Many were sent with the recruiters to planetary staging centers, such as the one on Jebble. There they received whirlwind indoctrination in the Resol'nare from Mandalorian Rally Masters before being issued blue Neo-Crusader armor from the on-site War Forges.

 

 

 

 

Except the Rasol'nare is ********.

 

It's Resol'nare, and I understand your opinion. Regardless, it's canon.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Skapek-Skocap

[Templeman]

My wife quotes bits and phrases in the mando language when we pen and paper RP. She had a nerdgasm when playing a BH in TOR when she picked up her mando companion and he started speaking mando at her.