The Klingon Defence Forces Vs The Imperial Fleet

[Malastare]

If it is the shield that does it that would only raise MORE questions. as in *** is a shield doing emmiting the power of 6k megatons.

 

No, the correct question is:

 

What are you going to do to try and punch through a shield that delivers 6000MT of power to an object hitting it?

 

While I've enjoyed this thread, I do think that some people are just missing the point entirely. Star Wars is Fantasy. Star Trek is (soft) Sci-Fi. Star Wars has never restricted itself to realistic limitations. Yes, a lot of things that happen are downright impossible when you try to analyze them with science (or even logic), but that doesn't stop Fantasy. Fantasy isn't real and doesn't care about your "rules" or "physics".

 

I believe there was an article a while ago talking about the energy requirements of a lightsaber. Among the film-only canon, we've seen them doing some impressive things, including melting through a door made of metal. Even if it were a common metal like iron, the energy requirements for heat and containment would put it somewhere near a small nuclear fission reactor.

 

Which you hold in your hand.

 

And that is absolute, undeniable canon. Yes, I know its unrealistic, but that's the playground you jumped into. Either you accept the rules that it declares for itself or you're not really talking about that universe.

 

To that end, in your "Who Would Win" pairings, fantasy creatures/people/settings are always going to have an edge --often an insurmountable one-- over realistic counterparts.

 

Dragon vs. T. Rex : Dragon wins.

Army of Morgoth vs. 101st Airborne Division : Morgoth wins.

Poseidon vs. Nuclear Attack Submarine : Poseidon wins.

 

Why? Because the fantasy options are not constrained by reality. The Dragon can fly, breathe fire, and has a spike on its tail that can pierce titanium. Why? Because its fantasy and it can do whatever its creator says it can do. Morgoth can use magic. Poseidon commands the substance of water itself.

 

Empire vs. Klingons?

 

Empire wins, because even their fighters are firing insanely overpowered weapons. The simple fact that they see navigating into an asteroid field as "annoying" not "deadly" is just the start. Arguing that this isn't realistic is pointless. Of course its not, but that's not an argument.

 

Seal Team 6 vs. Unicorn with a Machinegun that Fires Infinite Katanas at Relativistic Speeds

 

Unicorn wins. It doesn't matter that the Katana gun is impractical or nonsensical. Claiming that its overpowered doesn't alter the situation; it just reiterates the obvious.

 

Star Wars ships/weapons/shields/engines/metals are silly, stupid, hilariously over powered.

 

...and that's why they would beat the Klingons or the Turians (or the Reapers) or Babylon 5.

 

Because Star Wars is fantasy and it doesn't care if things are silly.

[Wolfninjajedi]

A Katana gun would be *********** awesome!

[Malastare]

A Katana gun would be *********** awesome!

 

It would be even better if the Katanas were on fire.

[jarjarloves]

No, the correct question is:

 

What are you going to do to try and punch through a shield that delivers 6000MT of power to an object hitting it?

 

While I've enjoyed this thread, I do think that some people are just missing the point entirely. Star Wars is Fantasy. Star Trek is (soft) Sci-Fi. Star Wars has never restricted itself to realistic limitations. Yes, a lot of things that happen are downright impossible when you try to analyze them with science (or even logic), but that doesn't stop Fantasy. Fantasy isn't real and doesn't care about your "rules" or "physics".

 

I believe there was an article a while ago talking about the energy requirements of a lightsaber. Among the film-only canon, we've seen them doing some impressive things, including melting through a door made of metal. Even if it were a common metal like iron, the energy requirements for heat and containment would put it somewhere near a small nuclear fission reactor.

 

Which you hold in your hand.

 

And that is absolute, undeniable canon. Yes, I know its unrealistic, but that's the playground you jumped into. Either you accept the rules that it declares for itself or you're not really talking about that universe.

 

To that end, in your "Who Would Win" pairings, fantasy creatures/people/settings are always going to have an edge --often an insurmountable one-- over realistic counterparts.

 

Dragon vs. T. Rex : Dragon wins.

Army of Morgoth vs. 101st Airborne Division : Morgoth wins.

Poseidon vs. Nuclear Attack Submarine : Poseidon wins.

 

Why? Because the fantasy options are not constrained by reality. The Dragon can fly, breathe fire, and has a spike on its tail that can pierce titanium. Why? Because its fantasy and it can do whatever its creator says it can do. Morgoth can use magic. Poseidon commands the substance of water itself.

 

Empire vs. Klingons?

 

Empire wins, because even their fighters are firing insanely overpowered weapons. The simple fact that they see navigating into an asteroid field as "annoying" not "deadly" is just the start. Arguing that this isn't realistic is pointless. Of course its not, but that's not an argument.

 

Seal Team 6 vs. Unicorn with a Machinegun that Fires Infinite Katanas at Relativistic Speeds

 

Unicorn wins. It doesn't matter that the Katana gun is impractical or nonsensical. Claiming that its overpowered doesn't alter the situation; it just reiterates the obvious.

 

Star Wars ships/weapons/shields/engines/metals are silly, stupid, hilariously over powered.

 

...and that's why they would beat the Klingons or the Turians (or the Reapers) or Babylon 5.

 

Because Star Wars is fantasy and it doesn't care if things are silly.

 

I think you are missing the point.

 

I am ok with a light saber doing all the things on screen and requiring a huge power source and all that. That is fine that fits the world they created.

 

See in the movies the Star Wars weapons aren't overpowered.

 

In the books they ARE overpowered. So you have a conflict between the two. I am saying that in that case you follow what you see in the movies which is the way the Star Wars canon works.

 

Lets say in a book they say that Light sabers can also shoot fire balls from the blade and can grow to any length. That would be a problem and not true since we never see that in the movies.

 

So first off why would an energy shield cause huge 600 megaton explosions? Answer it wouldn't that idea is just stupid. Why would you create a shield to protect your ship that causes explosions that are several times more powerful then a nuclear explosion.

 

 

It's like making a wall to protect your house but using Dynamite instead of bricks.

 

So for example the Tie Fighters guns are supposed to fire at rate of 2 kilotons per sec. This number isn't from the movies it's from books.

 

So that means each blast from a Tie Fighter would be close to that of a nuclear weapon. The bomb that dropped on Hiroshima was 15 kilotons.

 

Ok fine however we see R2D2 get blasted by one shot in A New Hope. There is no way anything would have been left of him if he got blasted by something comparable to a nuclear explosion.

 

We see R2D2 blasted by blaster rifle in RotJ and the result is almost the same.

 

So are we to beleive that each blaster rifle can shoot a 2 kiloton blast???

 

No of course not. The obvious answer is they are not that powerfull.

 

 

I'm not arguing that Star Wars isn't fantasy. I am arguing that the numbers that people are saying Star Wars is capable of is not accurate to what we see in the movies.

[Aximand]

I think you are missing the point.

 

I am ok with a light saber doing all the things on screen and requiring a huge power source and all that. That is fine that fits the world they created.

 

See in the movies the Star Wars weapons aren't overpowered.

 

In the books they ARE overpowered. So you have a conflict between the two. I am saying that in that case you follow what you see in the movies which is the way the Star Wars canon works.

 

Lets say in a book they say that Light sabers can also shoot fire balls from the blade and can grow to any length. That would be a problem and not true since we never see that in the movies.

 

So first off why would an energy shield cause huge 600 megaton explosions? Answer it wouldn't that idea is just stupid. Why would you create a shield to protect your ship that causes explosions that are several times more powerful then a nuclear explosion.

 

 

It's like making a wall to protect your house but using Dynamite instead of bricks.

 

So for example the Tie Fighters guns are supposed to fire at rate of 2 kilotons per sec. This number isn't from the movies it's from books.

 

So that means each blast from a Tie Fighter would be close to that of a nuclear weapon. The bomb that dropped on Hiroshima was 15 kilotons.

 

Ok fine however we see R2D2 get blasted by one shot in A New Hope. There is no way anything would have been left of him if he got blasted by something comparable to a nuclear explosion.

 

We see R2D2 blasted by blaster rifle in RotJ and the result is almost the same.

 

So are we to beleive that each blaster rifle can shoot a 2 kiloton blast???

 

No of course not. The obvious answer is they are not that powerfull.

 

 

I'm not arguing that Star Wars isn't fantasy. I am arguing that the numbers that people are saying Star Wars is capable of is not accurate to what we see in the movies.

 

Death Star superlaser causes Alderaan to explode in less than five seconds after impact. That isn't overpowered?

[ChewiesArmy]

Death Star superlaser causes Alderaan to explode in less than five seconds after impact. That isn't overpowered?

 

4.5 secs...no. 3.5 secs...yes.

Edited February 9, 2012 by ChewiesArmy

[jarjarloves]

Death Star superlaser causes Alderaan to explode in less than five seconds after impact. That isn't overpowered?

 

ehhh it balances out. The fact that it can be destroyed by a single x-wing, or that it's attached to a giant slow moving target.

 

Doesn't Star Trek also have some super weapons like that?

[divinedoom]

yes its a bad comparison, but so was yours. that was my point.

 

 

anyway... Klingons win.

 

This guy isn't even open to discussion.

[KingKolKappi]

The Protoss could beat both with their eyes closed /thread

[zejaie]

true, but there 1 man attack vessels, and wont be able to fight large ships that are hidden, and can cloak in and out of cambat.

 

There are cloaks in star wars as well. I think that if the empire really had to face the KDF that they would quickly begin installing cloaking devices in their ships. Lets also not forget that the empire has an unlimited supply of troops to throw at the KDF. Lets not forget the death star, the KDF does not have ships small enough to fit in the tunnels n order to destroy it.

[zejaie]

No, the correct question is:

 

What are you going to do to try and punch through a shield that delivers 6000MT of power to an object hitting it?

 

While I've enjoyed this thread, I do think that some people are just missing the point entirely. Star Wars is Fantasy. Star Trek is (soft) Sci-Fi. Star Wars has never restricted itself to realistic limitations. Yes, a lot of things that happen are downright impossible when you try to analyze them with science (or even logic), but that doesn't stop Fantasy. Fantasy isn't real and doesn't care about your "rules" or "physics".

 

I believe there was an article a while ago talking about the energy requirements of a lightsaber. Among the film-only canon, we've seen them doing some impressive things, including melting through a door made of metal. Even if it were a common metal like iron, the energy requirements for heat and containment would put it somewhere near a small nuclear fission reactor.

 

Which you hold in your hand.

 

And that is absolute, undeniable canon. Yes, I know its unrealistic, but that's the playground you jumped into. Either you accept the rules that it declares for itself or you're not really talking about that universe.

 

To that end, in your "Who Would Win" pairings, fantasy creatures/people/settings are always going to have an edge --often an insurmountable one-- over realistic counterparts.

 

Dragon vs. T. Rex : Dragon wins.

Army of Morgoth vs. 101st Airborne Division : Morgoth wins.

Poseidon vs. Nuclear Attack Submarine : Poseidon wins.

 

Why? Because the fantasy options are not constrained by reality. The Dragon can fly, breathe fire, and has a spike on its tail that can pierce titanium. Why? Because its fantasy and it can do whatever its creator says it can do. Morgoth can use magic. Poseidon commands the substance of water itself.

 

Empire vs. Klingons?

 

Empire wins, because even their fighters are firing insanely overpowered weapons. The simple fact that they see navigating into an asteroid field as "annoying" not "deadly" is just the start. Arguing that this isn't realistic is pointless. Of course its not, but that's not an argument.

 

Seal Team 6 vs. Unicorn with a Machinegun that Fires Infinite Katanas at Relativistic Speeds

 

Unicorn wins. It doesn't matter that the Katana gun is impractical or nonsensical. Claiming that its overpowered doesn't alter the situation; it just reiterates the obvious.

 

Star Wars ships/weapons/shields/engines/metals are silly, stupid, hilariously over powered.

 

...and that's why they would beat the Klingons or the Turians (or the Reapers) or Babylon 5.

 

Because Star Wars is fantasy and it doesn't care if things are silly.

 

 

 

I agree with you on all points but one. The Reapers would win, not because they have more power but because they can indoctrinate the "simple minded" storm troopers.

[Kabloosh]

Death Star superlaser causes Alderaan to explode in less than five seconds after impact. That isn't overpowered?

 

I saw a video talking about how much energy would be required to blow up a planet the size of Earth to the point where the matter of the planet is launched so fast that it wouldn't collapse on itself. Lets just say the guy used a lot of math problems and I had no idea what it meant. >.>

 

But it was large!

[zejaie]

thats not even a match..

 

Borg wins hands down, but species 8472 can counter them

 

Not anymore, thanks to janeway.

[Wolfninjajedi]

ehhh it balances out. The fact that it can be destroyed by a single x-wing, or that it's attached to a giant slow moving target.

 

Doesn't Star Trek also have some super weapons like that?

 

Well it was more like destroyed by the force, I mean Red Leader had that exact same shot, on target with his computer and he missed. So unless you have the force, the death star is pretty much impossible to destroy(at least the first one)

Edited February 9, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Kabloosh]

Well it was more like destroyed by the force, I mean Red Leader had that exact same shot, on target with his computer and he missed. So unless you have the force, the death star is pretty much impossible to destroy(at least the first one)

 

The attack was only plausible with intel and it was a huge risk that would of failed without Luke there and the assistance of the force.

[Moracen]

All arguments are null and void

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1QI4P0YqtM

[J_Rimmer]

I would have to go with Star Trek, I mean eventually the imperials would have to lower their shields. When this happened the kilngons could easily teleport an attack force into the main engine room and blow up the ship.

If they were reckless enough they could even use the “Elway thermo” explored on Star Trek the Next Generation, Season 3, Episode 12 (The High Ground) where they teleport interdimensional right through shields.

Regardless of any speculation though, I enjoy both forms of science fiction.

[KingKolKappi]

Not sure why peeped think Klingons are all that tough every time ive seen o

 

ne they have got their butts handed to them. The borg the changelings even the jem hadar things have all ***** klingons. Also borg are incapable of running or jumping

[NemoSD]

There is a book titled Star Trek vs Star Wars... it provides an interesting vs breakdown. It concludes that Star Wars wins just slightly.

 

As far as KDF vs Empire... Empire all the way. KDF numbers its ships in the hundreds... the Battle of Endor was a sector force... and it numbered in the hundreds. It was not even a fraction of the total fleet...

 

Not to mention the power out put of a single TL blast is higher then that of even the Enterprise E's shields... once the Imperial ships closed, there would not be much of a fight left.

[Aximand]

ehhh it balances out. The fact that it can be destroyed by a single x-wing, or that it's attached to a giant slow moving target.

 

Doesn't Star Trek also have some super weapons like that?

 

A single X-Wing piloted by the Dues Ex Machina that is Luke Skywalker. Your point about that is completely invalid.

 

I'd also like to point out something that was completely ignored earlier in the thread, but there are different grades of Durasteel. And more are mentioned in the novels than just those two listed, sadly my Star Wars novels are half a country away so I can't find direct page quotes. Durasteel isn't nearly as flimsy as some have made it out to be.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Aximand

[clintcasey]

1. The Klingon Empire in Star Trek is a type 2 civilization. The Empire in Star Wars is a type 3 Civilization. In nearly all respects Star Wars has superior technology.

 

2. Star Destroyers also have around 60 Turbo Laser and Ion Canons. They also do an entire order of magnitude more damage. Star Trek weapon damage output is measured in Kilojules. The damage done by Star Wars Capiltal Ship weapons in the Empire era are measured in Megajules.

 

3. Slave 1, Boba Feet's ship, has more destructive firepower than any Enterprise or Voyager era ship.

 

4. The Imperial Fleet is far larger than the Klingon Emire's fleet. For every Bird of Prey the Klingon's actually have, the Empire has at least 10 Star Destroyers.

 

5. The Empire uses it's fleet to control an entire galaxy with an iron fist. The Klingon's have trouble fighting a Federation of smillar size, with a smaller fleet, with fewer tactical capabilities than they do.

 

6. Crew complements are also heavily in favor of the Empire. Most Klingon Ships would be considered Corvette class ships in Star Wars. The average bird of prey has fewer than 100 Klingon's on board. The Average Star Destroyer crew of around 1,200 + an entire Garrison of Imperial Stormtroopers, up to 15,000. In the event of any boarding action, the Empire has the overwhelming advantage in man power.

 

7. Star Destroyers also have: They also have 4 or 5 Squadrons of 12 TIE Fighters, 1 or 2 Squadrons of TIE bombers, and maybe 1 Squadron of TIE Interceptors. And they can house a total of 6 squadrons.

 

Honestly, the entire Imperial Fleet is overkill for killing something like the Klingon Empire. Heck I would go so far as to say the Rebel fleet in Empire Strikes back would be sufficient to get the job done. Darth Vader's fleet in Empire Strikes Back would be more than sufficient also.

[MustrumRidcully]

Well it was more like destroyed by the force, I mean Red Leader had that exact same shot, on target with his computer and he missed. So unless you have the force, the death star is pretty much impossible to destroy(at least the first one)

A single torpedo shot doesn't really give us any idea how easy to hit it actually is. Maybe the force can do it with a 90 % chance, and without it you have a 10 % chance. With Star Wars targeting tech, mind you. They are still using manually controlled turrets, while phasers and torpedoes are entirely computer-guided and very reliable.

[Sylverlokk]

The Klingons would get their asses kicked, but the Federation would have any number of options to destroy the Empire including The Food of the Gods, the City on the Edge of Forever, The Vulcan Mind Weapon, the Phasing ship technology, Dreadnaught and its holographic decoys, The Genesis Device and transporting raw antimatter into the engines of the star destroyers.

[DarthFatboy]

Don't make me have to warm up the Death Star... Klingon Homeworld=Dust

[jarjarloves]

A single X-Wing piloted by the Dues Ex Machina that is Luke Skywalker. Your point about that is completely invalid.

 

I'd also like to point out something that was completely ignored earlier in the thread, but there are different grades of Durasteel. And more are mentioned in the novels than just those two listed, sadly my Star Wars novels are half a country away so I can't find direct page quotes. Durasteel isn't nearly as flimsy as some have made it out to be.

 

only the first Death Star. the Second Death star was destroyed by Wedge and Lando neither of which have the force.

 

The only reason Luke needed to use the force is because Star Wars targeting computers suck and they can't hit a target 2 meters wide.

 

As for Durasteel doesn't really matter as we have also seen a tie figher which is supposed to have really strong blasters (as it can easily blow up x-wings and the such) hit R2D2 and it does the same damage as a blaster rifle.

 

So... yeah both Star Wars weapons and Durasteel isn't as good as the novels make them out to be.