I still think Marauder is just a broken class

[nonumbers]

I know there has already been a series of these threads but now that I've actually got a few alts and played the game even more, I just can't help but think that Marauder is still broken but not just broken but perhaps the worst class in the game and by a fair distance at that.

 

I'm gunna try and keep this small and simple. (edit: which I clearly have failed at)

 

1. We're a Melee DPS only class who does less damage then other RANGED classes that have hybrid options and potential builds. Isn't the whole point of Melee DPS suppose to be that it is THE highest damage? so sub-par damage

 

2. We have the survivability of a wet blanket and no major utility moves. Ok we have saber ward, a 12 second ability on a 3 minute CD (should be more like 1 minute), Cloak of pain that requires we be under attack, the direct opposite of what we should aiming for (stupid requirement), and a few others that have some kinda equally stupid things on them. We actually may have the worst survivability of ANY class in the game, from what I'm seeing I wouldn't be surprised by it.

 

3. Force Camo, seriously a 4 seconds cloak on a 45 second cool down, it's really meant to be our way to lose threat, but we never have all that much threat to begin with... for it's "camouflage" ability 4 seconds isn't enough to do much at all there is a small chance to escape a difficulty fight in PvP or to avoid a single group of mobs but that's about all. should either have a smaller CD or a longer effect.

 

4. Fury, why are our best buffs all limited fury? Predation, Berserk and Bloodthirst, while Bloodthirst the best also has an additional 5 minute CD anyway? Ok at 50 we can generate a full stack of fury every 3 minutes (or 2 minutes 30 seconds annihilation) but in PvP it can be difficult to build fury and live long enough to use it else wise... Seriously, bioware even acknowledges that Marauder has too much going on... drop fury! Also why does rage spec regenerate only 10 fury for predation... when annihilation gets double fury for each rage attack? it'd take annihilation 8 attacks to get back to 30 fury compared to 10 attacks for rage... fury is just broken and ill-conceived

 

5. overly complex... I know some insane people out there are capable of doing this, but seriously how big are some of the rotations for marauder... and how easily is each rotation broken in PvP? but without these complex and long rotations we are almost entirely useless. So you want to smash as rage? ok you have to have used force charge or obliterate recently to get your crit and have used force choke or crush to boost the base damage... or you'll do feck all. how about carnage? well force scream is your best move, but you'll wanna gore so it ignores armor and does some realy damage but you will require an unpredictable buff called blood frenzy being up (massacre ensures blood frenzy so long as it is not already up) to make it crit for certain. for all this you need to have rotations in PvP you need to adapt your rotations to fit the conditions going on while dealing with being CCed and having to keep a close range.

 

6. to easily controlled, tell me a CC that isn't useful against marauder? now tell me a CC that we have that is actually really useful? Being melee ranged, we kinda are the most vulnerable class to CCs... and the only useful CCs we get seem to have pitiful duration or just very easily counter-CCed.

 

So yeah... I think Marauder does have some serious issues...

 

I think a couple of ways to fix marauder by changing just Marauder).

 

A. increase marauder's HP, not armor. HP would increase survivability but not make us particularly effective at tanking since we'd still lose far more HP a hit, this will keep it harder to heal us and maintain us under that type of condition.

 

B. increase evasion against ranged attacks at close range, so that when we get close range, we actually can out-damage ranged DPS classes.

 

C. Drop fury completely, make berserk a 1 minute cool down, merge predation and cloak of pain for a 15 second effect @ 15% damage reduction & 50% movement speed AoE on a 1 minute cool down. Bloodthirst also should be on a 3 minute cool down... not a 5 minute one. Sure this needs some re-balancing of the skill trees but right now fury makes no sense... As for the two moves that open up, perhaps giving us force pull as a rage builder on a 2 minute cool-down where predation previously went and a heavy hitting move that consumes 12 rage instead of Frenzy at 50.

 

D. Decrease Saber Wards cool down to 100 seconds and make undying rage heal 5% of taken damage for 5 seconds after dropping half HP, It'd make the move a little bit more then just a last dying breath move.

 

E. allow us to actually get strength via skill tree... kinda seems an obvious one that what should be the highest DPS class should be able to boost it's primary damaging stat...

 

F. Make disable droid, disable target removing the droid only requirement and allow it to be used in PvP as a short duration stun...

 

well that's what I think anyway, I know other people will think different things and say different things so I'd like to hear them, but overall I'd just like for Bioware to admit that their IS a bigger problem with marauder and to actually give us information that they intend to fix it.

Edited January 30, 2012 by nonumbers

[MrPilkington]

Since im on my iphone and dont have time for a full post, in regard to your post about cloak, i pull threat pretty consitantly in our 16 mans, and cloak has saved my *** numerous times, especiall withthe 100% dmg reduction. Plus in pvp players cant see you when cloaked, so its a very useful ability

[nonumbers]

Since im on my iphone and dont have time for a full post, in regard to your post about cloak, i pull threat pretty consitantly in our 16 mans, and cloak has saved my *** numerous times, especiall withthe 100% dmg reduction. Plus in pvp players cant see you when cloaked, so its a very useful ability

 

It's only useful when nobody is looking for you, which when I see somebody with 2 sabers go invisible, I know they'll be visible again near by within 4 seconds. It's ok for getting an initial attack but easily seen in open areas. However I never pull threat in OPs... so I dunno what the difference is there. If it's more damage or if you have worse tanks...

[harrisonxxi]

1. We're a Melee DPS only class who does less damage then DPS then other RANGED classes that have hybrid options and potential builds. Isn't the whole point of Melee DPS suppose to be that it is THE highest damage? so sub-par damage

 

 

Im pretty sure marauders in raid setup/gear outdps everything else in 100% tot fights. Also we never run out of our resource, whereas other classes can in longer fights.

 

2. We have the survivability of a wet blanket and no major utility moves. Ok we have saber ward, a 12 second ability on a 3 minute CD (should be more like 1 minute), Cloak of pain that requires we be under attack, the direct opposite of what we should be (stupid requirement), and a few others that have some kinda equally stupid things on them. We actually may have the worst survivability of ANY class in the game, from what I'm seeing I wouldn't be surprised by it.

 

I know quite a few tanks that would kill for cloak of pain. 20% damage reduction with 50% uptime that does damage back when hit, yes pls. Also we have the MOST survival moves of any class in this game, and I would suggest l2p.

 

3. Force Camo, seriously a 4 seconds cloak on a 45 second cool down, it's really meant to be our way to lose threat, but we never have all that much threat to begin with... for it's "camouflage" ability 4 seconds isn't enough to do much at all there is a small chance to escape a difficulty fight in PvP or to avoid a single group of mobs but that's about all. should either have a smaller CD or a longer effect.

 

Considering I can pull regularly from my guilds non-powertech raid tank even smashing Force Camo every damn time its up, I think the skill is perfectly fine as it is, its not intended to be a get out of jail free card. If it had a shorter cd, it would be too strong, especially since you can cast predation while camo'd which allows you to put huge distance b/t you and the target. Also, if you not having problems with aggro gen {and the tank isnt a powertech}, your doing it wrong.

 

4. Fury, why are our best buffs all limited fury? Predation, Berserk and Bloodthirst, while Bloodthirst the best also has an additional 5 minute CD anyway? Ok at 50 we can generate a full stack of fury every 3 minutes (or 2 minutes 30 seconds annihilation) but in PvP it can be difficult to build fury and live long enough to use it else wise... Seriously, bioware even acknowledges that Marauder has too much going on... drop fury! Also why does rage spec regenerate only 10 fury for predation... when annihilation gets double fury for each rage attack? it'd take annihilation 8 attacks to get back to 30 fury compared to 10 attacks for rage... fury is just broken and ill-conceived

 

Shorter cd to bloodthrist? Are you serious? You want people to not even have to try on content? Rage spec is bad...dont use it. Anhil is supposed to have more fury available to it, its the way the spec is designed.

 

5. overly complex... I know some insane people out there are capable of doing this, but seriously how big are some of the rotations for marauder... and how easily is each rotation broken in PvP? but without these complex and long rotations we are almost entirely useless. So you want to smash as rage? ok you have to have used force charge or obliterate recently to get your crit and have used force choke or crush to boost the base damage... or you'll do feck all. how about carnage? well force scream is your best move, but you'll wanna gore so it ignores armor and does really damage and will require an unpredictable buff called blood frenzy being up (massacre ensures blood frenzy so long as it is not already up). for all this you need to have rotations in PvP you need to adapt your rotations to fit the conditions going on while dealing with being CCed and having to keep a close range.

 

You want easy sorc is that way ------>

 

6. to easily controlled, tell me a CC that isn't useful against marauder? now tell me a CC that we have that is actually really useful? Being melee ranged, we kinda are the most vulnerable class to CCs... and the only useful CCs we get seem to have pitiful duration or just very easily counter-CCed.

 

This must be your first mmo as a melee toon. Welcome to the melee club. Heres your hankie.

 

So yeah... I think Marauder does have some serious issues...

 

I think a couple of ways to fix marauder by changing just Marauder).

 

A. increase marauder's HP, not armor. HP would increase survivability but not make us particularly effective at tanking since we'd still lose far more HP a hit so harder to heal effectively still.

 

Yes b/c with our already stupidly large amount of defensive cd's, more hp wouldnt make us virtually impossible to kill............

 

C. increase evasion against ranged attacks at close range, so that when we get close range, we actually can out-damage ranged DPS classes..

 

Once again, if your getting out dps'd by ranged classes your doing it wrong.

 

D. Drop fury completely, make berserk a 1 minute cool down, merge predation and cloak of pain for a 15 second effect @ 15% defense & 50% movement speed on a 1 minute cool down. Bloodthirst also should be on a 3 minute cool down... not a 5 minute one. Sure this needs some re-balancing of the skill trees but right now fury makes no sense... As for the two moves that open up, perhaps giving us force pull as a rage builder on a 2 minute cool-down where predation previously went and a heavy hitting move that consumes 12 rage instead of Frenzy at 50.

 

Completely worthless suggestion. So now i can give my raid a mega buff 4-5 times per enrage instead of 2-3. Wonderful. Sign me up, but then next content is gonna suck *** once they factor it in. And i like pred and berserk being on seperate cds, and if you think cop sucks you need to really stop playing mmo's.

 

E. Decrease Saber Wards cool down to 100 seconds and make undying rage heal 5% of taken damage for 5 seconds after dropping half HP, It'd make the move a little bit more then just a last dying breath move.

 

Yes because 50% dmg reduction on half the cd makes sense. Also making undying rage, which is already an amazing survival tool even better makes sense......

 

F. allow us to actually get strength via skill tree... kinda seems an obvious one that what should be the highest DPS class should be able to boost it's primary damaging stat...

 

Once again, pretty sure were the top dps class with 100% tot. Dunno why they would want us to do even more damage.

 

G. Make disable droid, disable target removing the droid only requirement and allow it to be used in PvP as a short duration stun...

 

What you want us to be the new op? People complain about ops rolling them in one stun, you want us to get beat with the nerf stick because you clearly cant play this class?

 

TBH This post can be summed up, I dont know how to play, I suck, QQ.

[Sabbathius]

Complexity of rotations, I think people are blowing things out of proportion.

 

Yes, it's more complex than Arsenal Merc. Pretty much everything is more complex than those guys.

 

But comparing my Sin's rotation to my Marauder's, I'd say Sin's is more complex. For one, I have to keep Dark Ward up, or I get squishy. Then, I have to watch for Energize procs from Thrash, which buffs Shock. Then, I have to watch Raze procs from melee crits and use Crushing Darkness. Etc., etc. It's just as complex and proc-dependent.

 

Plus, as a Sin there's the added complexity of having to use taunts in PvP. Yes, even DPS spec Sin can and should use taunts. That's two extra keybinds right there. Plus Sin has a ton more CC, utility and the rest - keybinds, keybinds, keybinds. I have about 30% more keybinds on my Sin than I do on my Mara.

 

So, I don't know. My feeling is that Mara is not all that complex. Yeah, you have to watch one or two procs. Big whoop.

[CrazyAl]

way too much nonsense here to break down your post point by point

 

plus, from the length of your post and its tone im sure you wouldnt actually give consideration to opposing opinions

 

so ill just enter the obligatory L2P .... L2P

[GaryReasons]

We really are fine. I have stood still in pvp, not even fought back, only used defensive CDs (undying rage, saber ward, cloak of pain, camo, obfuscate....) and just spammed /tap to impatiently tap my foot at the person attacking me. I'm trying to get 50 /taps off before they kill me. I've gotten close. We can stay up OK on our own.

[AcaciaDragon]

I know there has already been a series of these threads but now that I've actually got a few alts and played the game even more, I just can't help but think that Marauder is still broken but not just broken but perhaps the worst class in the game and by a fair distance at that.

 

I'm gunna try and keep this small and simple. (edit: which I clearly have failed at)

 

1. We're a Melee DPS only class who does less damage then other RANGED classes that have hybrid options and potential builds. Isn't the whole point of Melee DPS suppose to be that it is THE highest damage? so sub-par damage

Who ever said we would do more DPS than Ranged?

 

2. We have the survivability of a wet blanket and no major utility moves. Ok we have saber ward, a 12 second ability on a 3 minute CD (should be more like 1 minute), Cloak of pain that requires we be under attack, the direct opposite of what we should aiming for (stupid requirement), and a few others that have some kinda equally stupid things on them. We actually may have the worst survivability of ANY class in the game, from what I'm seeing I wouldn't be surprised by it.

I stay alive pretty well when I utilize all my abilities. PvP is no different. You have to know WHEN to use your abilities, and when not to charge into a group of 2-3 people.Knowing when and when not to fight is the Key.

 

3. Force Camo, seriously a 4 seconds cloak on a 45 second cool down, it's really meant to be our way to lose threat, but we never have all that much threat to begin with... for it's "camouflage" ability 4 seconds isn't enough to do much at all there is a small chance to escape a difficulty fight in PvP or to avoid a single group of mobs but that's about all. should either have a smaller CD or a longer effect.

 

Then your not using this ability properly and in the right way. Its great for escaping situations where you will most likely be killed, use it then look for a medpac, the average gamer has ADD and will completely forget about you in those 4 seconds....In PvE its used to lose threat because we will undoubtedly do more damage and generate more threat than the tank.

 

4. Fury, why are our best buffs all limited fury? Predation, Berserk and Bloodthirst, while Bloodthirst the best also has an additional 5 minute CD anyway? Ok at 50 we can generate a full stack of fury every 3 minutes (or 2 minutes 30 seconds annihilation) but in PvP it can be difficult to build fury and live long enough to use it else wise... Seriously, bioware even acknowledges that Marauder has too much going on... drop fury! Also why does rage spec regenerate only 10 fury for predation... when annihilation gets double fury for each rage attack? it'd take annihilation 8 attacks to get back to 30 fury compared to 10 attacks for rage... fury is just broken and ill-conceived

 

Then we become medium armor wearing Juggernauts. There will be no difference between us. I have no problem generating Threat. Did you grab defensive forms in the tier one tree of Carnage? Fury is great when you understand how its suppose to work and when to use it. Now that we know your rage spec, itll be easier to address your concerns, Rage is pretty bad and requires precise timings and setups. Its unreliable at best. Try Carnage out. Its more sustained and reliable, and you still get to see big numbers

 

5. overly complex... I know some insane people out there are capable of doing this, but seriously how big are some of the rotations for marauder..(A marauder doesnt have rotations, this isn't WoW). and how easily is each rotation broken in PvP(Its PvP, nothing ever goes the way you want it, we have 24+ abilities to use and keep us in the game. Activate more than 1 Quickslot bar to fit them all)? but without these complex and long rotations we are almost entirely useless. So you want to smash as rage? ok you have to have used force charge or obliterate recently to get your crit and have used force choke or crush to boost the base damage...(yeah thats Rage. Try a different spec instead of claiming this class is broken. Just because people were posting edited videos of huge numbers in non 50 brackets Warzones is no reason to play that spec.) or you'll do feck all. how about carnage? well force scream is your best move, but you'll wanna gore so it ignores armor and does some realy damage but you will require an unpredictable buff(you can control it, how is it unpredictable if you can look at your buff bar for one second to see if a flaming fist is there) called blood frenzy being up (massacre ensures blood frenzy so long as it is not already up) to make it crit for certain. for all this you need to have rotations in PvP you need to adapt your rotations to fit the conditions going on while dealing with being CCed and having to keep a close range.No you dont, Charge, Battering Assault everytime its up for Rage and you wont have any problems. 2 moves. How simple is that? Now you can Force Scream crit for 3k, yay! Incredibly simple

 

6. to easily controlled, tell me a CC that isn't useful against marauder? now tell me a CC that we have that is actually really useful? Being melee ranged, we kinda are the most vulnerable class to CCs... and the only useful CCs we get seem to have pitiful duration or just very easily counter-CCed.

 

Deadly throw with root, Ravage with root, Choke to buy us time, Cripple, Rupture with Movement imparing effect, Force Crush, Force charge with Stagger. Wow i just listed off a bunch, you sure youve read all the tooltips and testing all specs before claiming your broken? Yet another pointless thread made by an inexperienced player.

 

So yeah... I think Marauder does have some serious issues...

 

I think a couple of ways to fix marauder by changing just Marauder).

 

A. increase marauder's HP, not armor. HP would increase survivability but not make us particularly effective at tanking since we'd still lose far more HP a hit, this will keep it harder to heal us and maintain us under that type of condition.

 

You really need to think that one through. I dont see how that can help us, if your going to die your going to die when up against overwhelming odds. Giving us more HP doesnt fix that. Pick your battles, learn how to fight other classes, they are all different and require a different mindset, learn it.

 

B. increase evasion against ranged attacks at close range, so that when we get close range, we actually can out-damage ranged DPS classes.

 

its called obfuscate. Use it.

 

C. Drop fury completely, make berserk a 1 minute cool down, merge predation and cloak of pain for a 15 second effect @ 15% damage reduction & 50% movement speed AoE on a 1 minute cool down. Bloodthirst also should be on a 3 minute cool down... not a 5 minute one. Sure this needs some re-balancing of the skill trees but right now fury makes no sense... As for the two moves that open up, perhaps giving us force pull as a rage builder on a 2 minute cool-down where predation previously went and a heavy hitting move that consumes 12 rage instead of Frenzy at 50.

 

Fury works fine, fix your broken spec to utilize greater fury generation. I never hear anyone complaining about there Fury generation, everyone is fine with it.

 

D. Decrease Saber Wards cool down to 100 seconds and make undying rage heal 5% of taken damage for 5 seconds after dropping half HP, It'd make the move a little bit more then just a last dying breath move.

These two moves are the best! It works great against a group thats focusing me down when my teamates are nearby, i become a temporary tank, everyone focusing on me for 4 seconds and negating all there damage, giving everyone else time to kill them! stop jumping into a group of 2+ and you wont see your HP dissappear. If this is happening with only 1 person...you seriously need to rethink your lifes goals.

 

E. allow us to actually get strength via skill tree... kinda seems an obvious one that what should be the highest DPS class should be able to boost it's primary damaging stat...

 

meh, i do enough damage, why should you get an easy button, but hey, The best will get better, and the baddies will just stay bad....

 

F. Make disable droid, disable target removing the droid only requirement and allow it to be used in PvP as a short duration stun...

HAHAHAHA, i would say one thing to this. L2P your class, and dont rely on stuns. The fact that we dont have any means we have to work extra hard. Try it and you will find this class is very rewarding. You jsut have to put more time into it than say a sorc spamming force lighting for 50 levels.

 

well that's what I think anyway, I know other people will think different things and say different things so I'd like to hear them, but overall I'd just like for Bioware to admit that their IS a bigger problem with marauder and to actually give us information that they intend to fix it.

 

The red is what i said. Im a poet and didnt know it!

[Sabbathius]

We really are fine. I have stood still in pvp, not even fought back, only used defensive CDs (undying rage, saber ward, cloak of pain, camo, obfuscate....) and just spammed /tap to impatiently tap my foot at the person attacking me. I'm trying to get 50 /taps off before they kill me. I've gotten close. We can stay up OK on our own.

 

In general I agree, but I find it's way too easy to strip Cloak of Pain off a Mara. It should have a 15 sec duration, not 6. Total would still be 30 sec.

 

When CC lasts 8 seconds, all too often you pop Cloak, they CC you and just /tap there until your cloak falls off. Heck, I've done it to Maras myself on my Sin. It's easy to do, and totally negates such an important skill (since it can be talented to grant other bonuses).

[nonumbers]

Im pretty sure marauders in raid setup/gear outdps everything else in 100% tot fights. Also we never run out of our resource, whereas other classes can in longer fights.

 

we instead start with no resources and have to continually generate them from the start... and still have CDs as well... in a drawn out fight we'll win on total DPS, I won't argue there but we're still too stupidly vulnerable and tanks generate far more hate for what they do then we do... so...

 

I know quite a few tanks that would kill for cloak of pain. 20% damage reduction with 50% uptime that does damage back when hit, yes pls. Also we have the MOST survival moves of any class in this game, and I would suggest l2p.

 

Apart from tanks already have 20% damage reduction from their shields which is 100% uptime, ok it's not straight 20% damage reduction but over time... also it's not 50% uptime, it's only 50% uptime if you take an attack every 6 seconds for ~24 seconds... we may have the most survival moves, but their utility leaves A LOT to be desired and our best survival move is shared with juggernaut anyway.

 

Considering I can pull regularly from my guilds non-powertech raid tank even smashing Force Camo every damn time its up, I think the skill is perfectly fine as it is, its not intended to be a get out of jail free card. If it had a shorter cd, it would be too strong, especially since you can cast predation while camo'd which allows you to put huge distance b/t you and the target. Also, if you not having problems with aggro gen {and the tank isnt a powertech}, your doing it wrong.

 

Wouldn't be doing it wrong, be having issues with aggro generation... think about it. Also Force Camo is suppose to be somewhat of a get out of jail free card... it gets you out of a serious situation, if not for that then what's the point of the ability! Also predation right now requires fury, if you don't have fury you can't predation... funny that.

 

Shorter cd to bloodthrist? Are you serious? You want people to not even have to try on content? Rage spec is bad...dont use it. Anhil is supposed to have more fury available to it, its the way the spec is designed.

 

*face palm* did you even look at the reason I said for these things? because the class is already too damned complex, I can play the class but that doesn't stop it from being too complex. Compare marauder to any other class and it's about 3 times more complex then the lot of them... so no, it's not to do with being "easier" but simply less complicated. And why do you think I wouldn't be serious? 15% for 15 seconds every 420 seconds... our buffs are ridiculously underwhelming half the time because of fury.

 

You want easy sorc is that way ------>

 

How about "balanced", something you aren't addressing here.

 

This must be your first mmo as a melee toon. Welcome to the melee club. Heres your hankie.

 

Actually it's my 5th, you may have noted that disproportional CCs between classes was one of the reasons that WAR was such a horrible MMORPG. It's the same people that made that stupid mistake that were brought on board for SWTOR's pvp... big mistake, yet again disproportional CCs... surprise surprise mythic suck...

 

Yes b/c with our already stupidly large amount of defensive cd's, more hp wouldnt make us virtually impossible to kill............

 

yeah... our defensive CDs... I think I've already addressed this and you'd be having a laugh if you think that we'd be impossible to kill just from more HP.

 

Once again, if your getting out dps'd by ranged classes your doing it wrong.

 

Yeah, because apparently running from mob to mob because force charge is down is doing it wrong... or the fact that in PvP we need to close a gap and other classes can re-create that gap fairly effectively. granted on champion fights we can out-damage ranged classes when they run out of ammo/force points/etc.

 

Completely worthless suggestion. So now i can give my raid a mega buff 4-5 times per enrage instead of 2-3. Wonderful. Sign me up, but then next content is gonna suck *** once they factor it in. And i like pred and berserk being on seperate cds, and if you think cop sucks you need to really stop playing mmo's.

 

Actually the times I said were more in line with how often it is possible to buff now. you can do the following to get a fast fury build right now, force charge, battering assault, 8x Sweeping slash, takes 30 seconds, sure it's not the best thing to do, but you can do that to predation constantly. I know, I've had to do it to work around an interesting situation we once had. Add on to that the 3 frenzies you get in that time then with my suggestion you actually get LESS, not more. however it is less complicated.

 

Yes because 50% dmg reduction on half the cd makes sense. Also making undying rage, which is already an amazing survival tool even better makes sense......

Undying rage is a 5 second buff for emergencies, it makes no sense to use it unless it's already desperate, saber ward should be used way before that point, however it's not half the CD, more like 60% of it and 12 seconds every 1 minute 40 seconds is still seriously a long amount of down time.

 

Once again, pretty sure were the top dps class with 100% tot. Dunno why they would want us to do even more damage.

 

There is only one situation you have been able to say we do more DPS in, which ironically still has issues like the fact more often then not we're in AoE range and can die in 2 hits of anything strong enough for us to get that small advantage in.

 

What you want us to be the new op? People complain about ops rolling them in one stun, you want us to get beat with the nerf stick because you clearly cant play this class?

 

So ops can kill you in one stun can't they... hmmm? No, that isn't what I'm after, disable droid doesn't work that way, it breaks on damage, I never said to change that and it takes a couple of seconds to cast... so... yeah, no I don't think you've bothered to even try to understand a single thing I've actually said and instead decided to ignorantly respond to my post without taking a single thing seriously.

 

TBH This post can be summed up as harrisonxx is an idiot who likes to defend a broken class because he doesn't wanna admit he chose a broken class.

Edited January 30, 2012 by nonumbers

[Sayc]

it's about 3 times more complex then the lot of them

 

3 times more complex than something a retarded monkey could pull off still leaves you at something a slow monkey could pull off.

 

tanks generate far more hate for what they do then we do

 

Not sure how this is relevant or important or anything. That is how tanks function, they generate hate through means other than pure damage.

 

Drop fury completely, make berserk a 1 minute cool down, merge predation and cloak of pain for a 15 second effect @ 15% defense & 50% movement speed on a 1 minute cool down.

 

That'd be a solid nerf for both anni spec and CoP in general.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Sayc

[Darkpassenger]

The rotations are not that difficult to get down. When it comes to Pvp you have to fight on the fly, Republicans aren't going to sit around like a PVE mob and let you tee off on them.

 

I'm relatively new to melee DPS myself, I did roll a warrior in WoW for a bit and that helps understanding the mechanics. Once you realize what your guy can do and understand his abilities it becomes extremely easy.

 

No one seems to like the Rage spec which I find amusing. I have been using it from the start and I can bust out some damage. As everyone knows without com logs and DPS meters its just a speculative guessing game on which is better. Roll what you like until the facts are known.

 

In regards to fury, Frenzy dude, instant 30 stack. As a Rage Marauder, and I probably have this wrong, I rarely use berserk in PVE. Simply because busting out 6 Viscious Slashes in a row messes with my rotation. I generally keep predation up the entire time and save Bloodthirst for the burn.

 

My only qualms with the Marauder class is there is no non-combat self generating rage ability. It would be nice to be able to make at least 3 bars without engaging in combat. For ppl who are like NO WAY, put it on a five minute cool down, I don't care. Possibly a shorter cooldown on Unleash as well, just because it seems other classes do have more stun abilities than we do.

 

P.S. Fix Ravage so we don't go through the motions wasting valuable time not doing damage as well.

 

Cheers!

[Toffle]

How do people find this a complex rotation?

[Sayc]

How do people find this a complex rotation?

 

People are stupid.

[nonumbers]

Who ever said we would do more DPS than Ranged?

 

It's kinda in the lore that we're the most aggressive class, if we don't do more damage then we might as well be Suicidal lemmings.

 

I stay alive pretty well when I utilize all my abilities. PvP is no different. You have to know WHEN to use your abilities, and when not to charge into a group of 2-3 people.Knowing when and when not to fight is the Key.

 

I never run into a group of 2-3 people alone, I'm actually fairly opportunist when it comes to PvP. However I can't use my abilities when I'm stunned and given only 1 CC breaker every 2 minutes... yeah.

 

Then your not using this ability properly and in the right way. Its great for escaping situations where you will most likely be killed, use it then look for a medpac, the average gamer has ADD and will completely forget about you in those 4 seconds....In PvE its used to lose threat because we will undoubtedly do more damage and generate more threat than the tank.

 

Well I already kinda said what it's PvE use is anyway. I think using a medpac for every PvP battle might get kinda expensive, considering that I will force cloak a good 10 or so times in a battle just to try and get the drop, to save force charge... it works on voidstar but I tend not to see the same benefits in huttball (since it's 3D layout) or on alderaan (big open spaces, 4 seconds isn't enough to get the drop without being seen by somebody actually paying attention).

 

Then we become medium armor wearing Juggernauts. There will be no difference between us. I have no problem generating Threat. Did you grab defensive forms in the tier one tree of Carnage? Fury is great when you understand how its suppose to work and when to use it. Now that we know your rage spec, itll be easier to address your concerns, Rage is pretty bad and requires precise timings and setups. Its unreliable at best. Try Carnage out. Its more sustained and reliable, and you still get to see big numbers

 

Not sure why you think dropping fury requirements would make us medium armor juggernauts? that is with keeping the buffs. I'm annihilation spec, not rage. I found Rage was pretty terrible PvE actually, worse even then Carnage.

 

A marauder doesnt have rotations, this isn't WoW

 

So you're saying you wouldn't do say Berserk -> Bloody Saber, or that you wouldn't do Massacre -> Gore -> Force Scream -> Ravage? We have rotations but they're more dynamic then that of something like WoW.

 

Its PvP, nothing ever goes the way you want it, we have 24+ abilities to use and keep us in the game. Activate more than 1 Quickslot bar to fit them all

 

I actually have all 4 bars in use on the screen, but mainly for the visual to see cool downs, I try to keybind as much as possible but with 24+ items really isn't that easy at all.

 

yeah thats Rage. Try a different spec instead of claiming this class is broken. Just because people were posting edited videos of huge numbers in non 50 brackets Warzones is no reason to play that spec

 

I was using explains of each build to show why the WHOLE class is broken, which includes rage, however I'm annihilation for the 2nd time, I've even said my fav is carnage, why do you think I'm a rage build? I'm not.

 

ou can control it, how is it unpredictable if you can look at your buff bar for one second to see if a flaming fist is there

 

yeah... because it's always in the same place, you need to look at all the icons =P. Either way that second to look is a second not looking at what you're actually doing.

 

No you dont, Charge, Battering Assault everytime its up for Rage and you wont have any problems. 2 moves. How simple is that? Now you can Force Scream crit for 3k, yay! Incredibly simple

 

how is this at all dealing with CCs? again, not rage. sigh... also force scream crit is random... so... unreliable.

 

Deadly throw with root, Ravage with root, Choke to buy us time, Cripple, Rupture with Movement imparing effect, Force Crush, Force charge with Stagger. Wow i just listed off a bunch, you sure youve read all the tooltips and testing all specs before claiming your broken? Yet another pointless thread made by an inexperienced player.

 

Choke isn't really a CC, sure it disables them but it also disables us. Cripple can be useful but doesn't stop the push backs and we aren't the only classes with roots/slows either. We have zero stuns, we have an AoE sleep for 6 seconds which is pointless since most people in PvP won't even bother to pay attention to it... that's the only real CC we have tho. The others are more debuffs then CCs. CC is a crowd control, slows isn't really "controlling" the crowd now and binds don't do anything to stop ranged players attacking.

 

You really need to think that one through. I dont see how that can help us, if your going to die your going to die when up against overwhelming odds. Giving us more HP doesnt fix that. Pick your battles, learn how to fight other classes, they are all different and require a different mindset, learn it.

 

Huh? Why would I want us to be able to stand up to overwhelming odds, no non-tank class should be able to do that. This is just about aligning the survivability to be more in-line with ranged classes who have the advantage of range, not to make us tanks, that is specifically the thing I was looking to avoid.

 

its called obfuscate. Use it.

 

I do but it's a debuff not a constant effect and it only works on a single target... if you get in close range on two standing next to each other then they should lose range benefits.

 

Fury works fine, fix your broken spec to utilize greater fury generation. I never hear anyone complaining about there Fury generation, everyone is fine with it.

 

Really? I've seen people complain about it before, on these forums in fact. The fact I'm not fine with it means simply that not everybody is fine with it. Fury is a broken ill-conceived system.

 

These two moves are the best! It works great against a group thats focusing me down when my teamates are nearby, i become a temporary tank, everyone focusing on me for 4 seconds and negating all there damage, giving everyone else time to kill them! stop jumping into a group of 2+ and you wont see your HP dissappear. If this is happening with only 1 person...you seriously need to rethink your lifes goals.

 

Sigh... temporary tank, sure... I never attack alone unless I'm sure it's one on one. I won't even attack if I suspect cloaked people are around.

 

meh, i do enough damage, why should you get an easy button, but hey, The best will get better, and the baddies will just stay bad....

 

So you're saying juggernauts are bad because they have strength bonus? how about sniper that gets endurance bonuses... we get... yeah, nothing in comparison, not even endurance bonuses.

 

HAHAHAHA, i would say one thing to this. L2P your class, and dont rely on stuns. The fact that we dont have any means we have to work extra hard. Try it and you will find this class is very rewarding. You jsut have to put more time into it than say a sorc spamming force lighting for 50 levels.

 

A bit like a guy with a broken baseball bat would have to work harder then people with properly working baseball bats, we have to work harder to compete... yeah... that doesn't mean the baseball bat isn't broken just because you can still hit the ball, a broken baseball bat is still broken.

[Caliban_Thule]

How do people find this a complex rotation?

 

Our rotations rely on a crappy UI, a buggy system, and ability delay.

 

You have to fight the game more than the players or mobs you are fighting.

[Manifoldgodhead]

I'm pretty sure you played Mara only to mid level. Really the class isn't that bad, but leveling is retarded because there is no real ability rotation that makes sense until you get annil or massacre. Beyond that the only problem is Rage tree is useless and yes Cloak of Pain is a Jugg ability that got lost. Seriously, why is it there???

[nonumbers]

No one seems to like the Rage spec which I find amusing. I have been using it from the start and I can bust out some damage. As everyone knows without com logs and DPS meters its just a speculative guessing game on which is better. Roll what you like until the facts are known.

 

Rage is bad for anything other then PvP, Annihilation uses bleed effects and a lot of them (can stack over 1K damage a tick with 4 bleed effects) and carnage has the ability to ignore armor for 6 seconds when gore is used which makes it more reliable DPS, also both Carnage and Annihilation are better at generating rage then rage... strangely.

 

In regards to fury, Frenzy dude, instant 30 stack. As a Rage Marauder, and I probably have this wrong, I rarely use berserk in PVE. Simply because busting out 6 Viscious Slashes in a row messes with my rotation. I generally keep predation up the entire time and save Bloodthirst for the burn.

 

Berserk is different for each stance, Ataru form (carnage only) gets a reduced GCD for some attacks and reduced rage cost, Shii-cho form which you use makes vicious slash free and hits a secondary target. Jugo form (the one used mainly be Annihilation) gives a HoT effect for bleeds inflicted, it ticks up to 5 times and makes the bleeds crit as well. It's effectively an assured self heal of 15% of your HP and 5% HP of any other ally near you. Also Frenzy has a long cool down, very noticeable in PvP which is suppose to be faster paced.

 

My only qualms with the Marauder class is there is no non-combat self generating rage ability. It would be nice to be able to make at least 3 bars without engaging in combat. For ppl who are like NO WAY, put it on a five minute cool down, I don't care. Possibly a shorter cooldown on Unleash as well, just because it seems other classes do have more stun abilities than we do.

 

P.S. Fix Ravage so we don't go through the motions wasting valuable time not doing damage as well.

 

one of the reasons I kinda stopped coming to these forums (since they're full of fail), is that somebody will probably claim that is what force charge is... forgetting about the ability to sneak in while in camo...

 

I'm pretty sure you played Mara only to mid level. Really the class isn't that bad, but leveling is retarded because there is no real ability rotation that makes sense until you get annil or massacre. Beyond that the only problem is Rage tree is useless and yes Cloak of Pain is a Jugg ability that got lost. Seriously, why is it there???

 

Well my marauder's title is "Darth". So I'll let you figure out if I'm mid leveled or not.

Edited January 30, 2012 by nonumbers

[Warlordomega]

In general I agree, but I find it's way too easy to strip Cloak of Pain off a Mara. It should have a 15 sec duration, not 6. Total would still be 30 sec.

 

When CC lasts 8 seconds, all too often you pop Cloak, they CC you and just /tap there until your cloak falls off. Heck, I've done it to Maras myself on my Sin. It's easy to do, and totally negates such an important skill (since it can be talented to grant other bonuses).

 

no no no NO! if they decide to strip it from us thats 6 seconds im beating his face in while he does nothing... that puts his hp way below mine seeing as if i am givin 6 seconds i can half your life gone easily and then just pop SW

[Hizoka]

I know there has already been a series of these threads but now that I've actually got a few alts and played the game even more, I just can't help but think that Marauder is still broken but not just broken but perhaps the worst class in the game and by a fair distance at that.

 

I'm gunna try and keep this small and simple. (edit: which I clearly have failed at)

 

1. We're a Melee DPS only class who does less damage then other RANGED classes that have hybrid options and potential builds. Isn't the whole point of Melee DPS suppose to be that it is THE highest damage? so sub-par damage

 

2. We have the survivability of a wet blanket and no major utility moves. Ok we have saber ward, a 12 second ability on a 3 minute CD (should be more like 1 minute), Cloak of pain that requires we be under attack, the direct opposite of what we should aiming for (stupid requirement), and a few others that have some kinda equally stupid things on them. We actually may have the worst survivability of ANY class in the game, from what I'm seeing I wouldn't be surprised by it.

 

3. Force Camo, seriously a 4 seconds cloak on a 45 second cool down, it's really meant to be our way to lose threat, but we never have all that much threat to begin with... for it's "camouflage" ability 4 seconds isn't enough to do much at all there is a small chance to escape a difficulty fight in PvP or to avoid a single group of mobs but that's about all. should either have a smaller CD or a longer effect.

 

4. Fury, why are our best buffs all limited fury? Predation, Berserk and Bloodthirst, while Bloodthirst the best also has an additional 5 minute CD anyway? Ok at 50 we can generate a full stack of fury every 3 minutes (or 2 minutes 30 seconds annihilation) but in PvP it can be difficult to build fury and live long enough to use it else wise... Seriously, bioware even acknowledges that Marauder has too much going on... drop fury! Also why does rage spec regenerate only 10 fury for predation... when annihilation gets double fury for each rage attack? it'd take annihilation 8 attacks to get back to 30 fury compared to 10 attacks for rage... fury is just broken and ill-conceived

 

5. overly complex... I know some insane people out there are capable of doing this, but seriously how big are some of the rotations for marauder... and how easily is each rotation broken in PvP? but without these complex and long rotations we are almost entirely useless. So you want to smash as rage? ok you have to have used force charge or obliterate recently to get your crit and have used force choke or crush to boost the base damage... or you'll do feck all. how about carnage? well force scream is your best move, but you'll wanna gore so it ignores armor and does some realy damage but you will require an unpredictable buff called blood frenzy being up (massacre ensures blood frenzy so long as it is not already up) to make it crit for certain. for all this you need to have rotations in PvP you need to adapt your rotations to fit the conditions going on while dealing with being CCed and having to keep a close range.

 

6. to easily controlled, tell me a CC that isn't useful against marauder? now tell me a CC that we have that is actually really useful? Being melee ranged, we kinda are the most vulnerable class to CCs... and the only useful CCs we get seem to have pitiful duration or just very easily counter-CCed.

 

So yeah... I think Marauder does have some serious issues...

 

I think a couple of ways to fix marauder by changing just Marauder).

 

A. increase marauder's HP, not armor. HP would increase survivability but not make us particularly effective at tanking since we'd still lose far more HP a hit, this will keep it harder to heal us and maintain us under that type of condition.

 

B. increase evasion against ranged attacks at close range, so that when we get close range, we actually can out-damage ranged DPS classes.

 

C. Drop fury completely, make berserk a 1 minute cool down, merge predation and cloak of pain for a 15 second effect @ 15% damage reduction & 50% movement speed AoE on a 1 minute cool down. Bloodthirst also should be on a 3 minute cool down... not a 5 minute one. Sure this needs some re-balancing of the skill trees but right now fury makes no sense... As for the two moves that open up, perhaps giving us force pull as a rage builder on a 2 minute cool-down where predation previously went and a heavy hitting move that consumes 12 rage instead of Frenzy at 50.

 

D. Decrease Saber Wards cool down to 100 seconds and make undying rage heal 5% of taken damage for 5 seconds after dropping half HP, It'd make the move a little bit more then just a last dying breath move.

 

E. allow us to actually get strength via skill tree... kinda seems an obvious one that what should be the highest DPS class should be able to boost it's primary damaging stat...

 

F. Make disable droid, disable target removing the droid only requirement and allow it to be used in PvP as a short duration stun...

 

well that's what I think anyway, I know other people will think different things and say different things so I'd like to hear them, but overall I'd just like for Bioware to admit that their IS a bigger problem with marauder and to actually give us information that they intend to fix it.

 

the class performs as well as the person playing. if you think the class is broken and bad, then you are doing it wrong. Instead of complaining play something that is better for you, something that is simple like a merc,

[Darkpassenger]

I will agree to disagree with you and probably a lot of other ppl on the Rage spec being useless for PVE. Is it the best? Probably not, but it holds its own. I do jump into mobs when I'm rolling around on my own (Obviously not in Flash points) and smoke entire packs in one rotation. Charge >Force Choke> Smash> Crush> Ravage> battering >smash.....done. Battering may be moved to the left somewhere in that rotation, I'm not doing the math atm, but the smashes just critted for 4k a piece. With good positioning you can hit all the mobs around you. Depending on the mob strength as well will determine whose left standing.

 

Don't forget about savage kick as well if the mob is only a strong. Dropping this in right after charge is nice and I've had it hit for 4200. It irritates me that this ability isn't useable on all mobs.

 

Unfortunately I have yet to use pommel strike and have not found an ability to chain it with if anyone has any tips I'd appreciate it.

 

I understand your mad about the class, It does need a little love, I think fine tuning abilities and CD's instead of an overhaul is where its at though.

[Stigas]

There are definitely oversights on BioWares behalf with Melee vs Ranged, boiling down to mechanics. The latest update brought a few fights with us in mind, and hopefully that will continue moving forward. They can't (and shouldn't) go back and re-design older content just to suit Melee. Truck through it and move on.

 

In terms of damage, blahblahblah. No combat logs. Sims are unreliable as hell. I don't care what anyone says, with all the broken tooltips and skill trees I don't believe we'll have an accurate assessment of any class until combat logs can be parsed. Until then you have to hope that the FlyText is actually accurate... I sure wouldn't bet on it.

 

Sounds like you've got alts that you're enjoying. It's early in the game and completely possible Warriors in SW:ToR just aren't for you.

[rainzquall]

deleted Edited January 30, 2012 by rainzquall

[moomies]

Maras are pretty ok, but Two things I think need fix tho: Savage Kick and Pommel Strike in pvp imho. Come on why gives player 2 skills that are usable only on some pve mobs?? Bioware should explain why.. Some will say too much burst dmg.. then explain Operatives burst dmg when come out of stealth.

 

Cheerz

[nonumbers]

the class performs as well as the person playing. if you think the class is broken and bad, then you are doing it wrong. Instead of complaining play something that is better for you, something that is simple like a merc,

 

maybe in PvE, in PvP it only preforms as well as the people you're playing against. If you're playing against noobs you end out high in the tables with lots of damage, if you're playing against good players then you end out low down. Fact is as a melee class if you're playing against people that know how to keep you at range, you aren't going to win and having a level 32 Sith Sorcerer I already know of at least 4 abilities at that level that I can use to do that with, 5 if I spec up Static Barriers. Where as Sith Marauder only has 2~4 moves to close the gap, given we have to close the gap first on top of this... as I've said it's not just playing as Sith Marauder that I'm feeling that Marauder is weak.

 

I will agree to disagree with you and probably a lot of other ppl on the Rage spec being useless for PVE. Is it the best? Probably not, but it holds its own. I do jump into mobs when I'm rolling around on my own (Obviously not in Flash points) and smoke entire packs in one rotation. Charge >Force Choke> Smash> Crush> Ravage> battering >smash.....done. Battering may be moved to the left somewhere in that rotation, I'm not doing the math atm, but the smashes just critted for 4k a piece. With good positioning you can hit all the mobs around you. Depending on the mob strength as well will determine whose left standing.

 

Don't forget about savage kick as well if the mob is only a strong. Dropping this in right after charge is nice and I've had it hit for 4200. It irritates me that this ability isn't useable on all mobs.

 

Unfortunately I have yet to use pommel strike and have not found an ability to chain it with if anyone has any tips I'd appreciate it.

 

I understand your mad about the class, It does need a little love, I think fine tuning abilities and CD's instead of an overhaul is where its at though.

 

Pommel chains off of any stun, that's yours or somebody else's, so that'd be Smash and Force Scream as the obvious two, it also chains off of Disable Droid and remember when other people use force choke you can pommel off of their chokes (you'll always fail if you try to do it off of your own tho).

 

I never said rage is useless, I said it has the longest down time between fights which means it takes longer to get around an area. It also has the lowest rage generation and highest rage burden. Annihilation gets 0 meter force charges and 30% chance to get rage off of poison effects, carnage gets reduced battering assault CD and rage generated from blood frenzy, rage gets... oh right... nothing. Best you can do is spec 7 points into carnage to get +1 rage on force charge and you'll definitely want to spec quick recovery in annihilation too for reduced smash cost.

 

Given that force charge has a minimum range (if you aren't annihilation) and force choke has a fairly hefty cool down, you're gunna have to use Obliterate and force crush at least half the time to get your bonuses for Smash which will push you back 6 rage alone. For carnage, Massacre (which may not even be required) can be speced down to 2 rage cost and gore 3, for a cost of 5 but you'll almost certainly get blood frenzy and so you recover 1 rage. As for annhiliation, blood saber costs 3 rage and berserk is fury based... however with rage regen on poison effects... you'll get back 1~2 points of rage from it and same with rupture.

 

Sounds like you've got alts that you're enjoying. It's early in the game and completely possible Warriors in SW:ToR just aren't for you.

 

I'm actually enjoying my Jedi Guardian tank a lot more, so I wouldn't say that. I don't hate the class, I hate the fact that playing either as marauder or as other classes, I still can't shake off the feeling that marauders are at a huge disadvantage. I can see it every time some mob has a heavy AoE, the most likely people to fall are marauders, every time it isn't a champion mob, marauders don't compete on damage, the class that falls the quickest when they get hate... again marauder.