THIS is SO TRUE !

[Mannic]

If you think it isnt, i dont even....

 

PvP balance in WoW is, and always has been, a terrible, terrible joke.

 

SWTORs PvP class balance is no better or worse than WoWs was at launch and no worse than it is now.

 

There was more diversity in WoW's "rogue" tree than there is in the Shadow, Assassin, Scoundrel or Ops advanced classes combined in TOR. I've played all four, and they all play essentially the same way as stealthy bursty melee classes with some <10m ranged attacks. Yes, they look different, and there are some slight variations in a handful of the skills you use in a rotation, but when I say a handful I do mean less than five. Most of the skills are exactly the same as the other classes' only with different names and animations.

 

Those are 4 of the 16 AC's in the game, yet they do not feel remarkably different from one another. The animations and sound effects are different and that's really about it. Playing a Merc doesn't feel particularly different from playing a Sorc. Both are turrets. One has a resource that ticks up the meter, the other has a resource that ticks down. That's some innovation right there!

 

When it comes to PvP, there really are only 4 classes in TOR:

 

Burst/DPS stealth rogues: Assassin; Operative; Shadows; Scoundrels spec'd for damage.

 

Turret healers: Operatives, Scoundrels, Mercs, Sorcs spec'd for healing.

 

Ranged Damage dealers: Mercs, Sorcs, Snipers, Gunslingers spec'd for damage.

 

Warriors who aren't good at anything in particular but have some decent "charge" and "pull" abilities that are annoying.

 

Yes, if you make every class viery, very similar to each other and give them all the same types of CC and CC-breaks and all the same thresholds of damage in the same situatiosn, and the same sorts of heals and CD's, it's easier to maintain balance.

 

Even back when it was World of Roguecraft, WoW had at least as good of balance as TOR has, yet WoW's classes were actually differentiated with very different playstyles from the other classes.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Mannic

[MEBIGGD]

Where the heck do people get the time to not only play the game, hit lvl 50 in a month and then do a video which was based off a book of notes compared to a game that has been out (WoW) for many years?

 

That was my first question.

 

If any other game was so great, why would you try another with your expectations being that it is like the game you stopped playing?

 

I am seriously glad I can't relate to all the stuff mentioned in the video. I still think creating such a video so early in any release of any game is....... Insane.

 

 

I'm not mad about the video but I swear I know some of us wish we even had more time to play the game alone.

[Vlaid]

I could not agree with the author of that video more.

 

He hit everything on the head. Hate WoW or love Tor, but the guy in that video is right about everything.

 

EA is going to make another game tank with this crap.

[Motafication]

lolpvp

[HATREDacolyte]

I agree with almost everything he said but the WoW references were just mind-numbingly irritating.

 

Saying that and agreeing with the majority of the video, I still love the game.

[Noctournys]

There was more diversity in WoW's "rogue" tree than there is in the Shadow, Assassin, Scoundrel or Ops advanced classes combined in TOR. I've played all four, and they all play essentially the same way as stealthy bursty melee classes with some <10m ranged attacks. Yes, they look different, and there are some slight variations in a handful of the skills you use in a rotation, but when I say a handful I do mean less than five. Most of the skills are exactly the same as the other classes' only with different names and animations.

 

well leave out the fact that that's more like 2 of 8 classes, not 4 of 16 (mirrors, yo!), but trust me when i say: A Sin tank plays a lot differently than a staby sin, and sin's get some 30m range attacks... ops do not. Operatives can heal - very differently than other classes, with infinite resources and cooldowns to manage - and me medium ranged dps instead of melee! Classes aren't defined by a single tree. Try playing your Operative as Lethality. It's almost a different class.

 

Those are 4 of the 16 AC's in the game, yet they do not feel remarkably different from one another. The animations and sound effects are different and that's really about it. Playing a Merc doesn't feel particularly different from playing a Sorc. Both are turrets. One has a resource that ticks up the meter, the other has a resource that ticks down. That's some innovation right there!

 

With different amounts of that resouce, different ways to regain it if lost, different debuffs, different.. well, everything.

 

Yes, if you make every class viery, very similar to each other and give them all the same types of CC and CC-breaks and all the same thresholds of damage in the same situatiosn, and the same sorts of heals and CD's, it's easier to maintain balance.

.

 

the CC breaks dont all have the same duration (my SW is 1.5 min, my sniper is 2 min), not everything has the same cooldowns, durations, or damage thresholds - in fact, theyre almost all different.

 

They also add different amounts of resolve and have different ranges and applications.

 

Different abilities are different! Who knew?!

[Rodanth_The_Wise]

Funny, because at Cata launch I was losing Holy Power at random and half my abilities didn't work.

 

Just because they fixed it on the quiet doesn't mean it wasn't broken.

 

I'm neither a WoW fanboy or a SWTOR fanboy, but I logged onto my server at 12:01am on cataclysm's release, and suffered ZERO problems with my rogue. No fps issues. No crashing issues. No gameplay/quest issues. Everything worked as intended. What I will say is that cataclysm in general sucked, compared to BC/LK. I just feel both of those expansions were more thought out in general. The only thing I applauded cataclysm for was the increase in general difficulty on the PVE side of things. I also preferred cataclysm's pvp balance over LK.

[adectus]

whaaaa whaaa. Too many stuns, too many knock backs, I can not win all the time. The game is full of bugs, BW can not get the classes balance. Im 50 in 3 weeks and there is no more content. FIX this now (add some comment from player who will compare this game to WOW) or i will unsub. This is the deal. Anyone who has played a MMO from launch knows these games have bugs and will take time to correct. The ones who complain that the game is broken and I WILL UNSUB are just morons. At least give it a few monts 3 to 6, maybe before you go off like a baby. Edited January 29, 2012 by adectus

[Acyu]

Obviously fake video. Republics were outnumbering imperials like 3:1 in Ilum.

[Mannic]

well leave out the fact that that's more like 2 of 8 classes, not 4 of 16 (mirrors, yo!), but trust me when i say: A Sin tank plays a lot differently than a staby sin, and sin's get some 30m range attacks... ops do not. Operatives can heal - very differently than other classes, with infinite resources and cooldowns to manage - and me medium ranged dps instead of melee! Classes aren't defined by a single tree. Try playing your Operative as Lethality. It's almost a different class.

 

 

 

With different amounts of that resouce, different ways to regain it if lost, different debuffs, different.. well, everything.

 

 

 

the CC breaks dont all have the same duration (my SW is 1.5 min, my sniper is 2 min), not everything has the same cooldowns, durations, or damage thresholds - in fact, theyre almost all different.

 

They also add different amounts of resolve and have different ranges and applications.

 

Different abilities are different! Who knew?!

 

Like I said; the classes don't feel remarkably different from each other. In PvP they fall into one of 4 categories, and each of the categories has 4 advanced classes that fall right into that playstyle and feel remarkably the same as the others.

 

Don't talk to me about a 30 second difference in a CD or that a Sin can attack at >10m for a few seconds. These do not change the fundamental dynamics of the class. You're picking gnat-crap out of pepper.

 

In WoW, different rogue builds played completely differently from one another, and no other class had builds that played similarly. A Hunter had different builds that played completely differently from one another, and no other class had builds that played similarly. A druid played completely differently from a Shaman, and a Paladin played completely differently from a Warrior. They weren't just hybrids of one another with slight variations on essentially 5 different skill trees.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Mannic

[jsonnenberg]

thank god for you people who fancy yourselves critics

 

 

the game has only been out a little more than a month.....

 

 

really?

[justregularjoe]

That was actually a really great video and a lot of honesty and backed up opinions.

 

Things I would like to highlight/agree with:

 

Healing is a joke in PvP. Healers are not rewarded enough through medals.

 

You can barely heal yourself through ONE person dpsing on you.

 

The loot : Is IS incredibly frustrating.

 

Ability Delay....

 

what he said about Whack-a-mole 100 % agreed. No cooldowns at all to use. Just click and spam heals.

[Fentz]

thank god for you people who fancy yourselves critics

 

 

the game has only been out a little more than a month.....

 

 

really?

 

he's just stating why he's quitting to his subscribers

[Marmerus]

thank god for you people who fancy yourselves critics

 

 

the game has only been out a little more than a month.....

 

 

really?

I should not have been out a month. It should have been in the workshop until its finished and able to compete with other mmos. Don't release a half arsed product if you want good reviews.

[Fdzzaigl]

He's not nearly full geared, however, I can understand the frustration.

 

It does get better once you've got a decent bit of gear, but you'll enjoy getting ***** before that.

[Noctournys]

Like I said; the classes don't feel remarkably different from each other. They fall into one of 4 categories, and each of the categories has 4 advanced classes that fall right into that playstyle and feel remarkably the same as the others.

 

Don't talk to me about a 30 second difference in a CD or that a Sin can attack at >10m for a few seconds. These do not change the fundamental dynamics of the class. You're picking gnat-crap out of pepper.

 

In WoW, different rogue builds played completely differently from one another, and no other class had builds that played similarly. A Hunter had different builds that played completely differently from one another, and no other class had builds that played similarly. A druid played completely differently from a Shaman, and a Paladin played completely differently from a Warrior. They weren't just hybrids of one another with slight variations on essentially 5 different skill trees.

 

who was picking nits?

 

Oh, yeah, you avoided everything i said that refuted your crap.

 

Got it.

[Noctournys]

I should not have been out a month. It should have been in the workshop until its finished and able to compete with other mmos. Don't release a half arsed product if you want good reviews.

 

you fail to understand how being employed at a publicly traded company works. Congrats for you!

[trashday]

great video!, Its a great game but they have some work ahead to get the game smooth and not feel so clunky.

[Noctournys]

That was actually a really great video and a lot of honesty and backed up opinions.

 

Things I would like to highlight/agree with:

 

Healing is a joke in PvP. Healers are not rewarded enough through medals.

 

You can barely heal yourself through ONE person dpsing on you.

The loot : Is IS incredibly frustrating.

 

Ability Delay....

 

what he said about Whack-a-mole 100 % agreed. No cooldowns at all to use. Just click and spam heals.

 

Get a tank to Guard you. That's their job. Then have him taunt the big, bad dps. Theyll be hitting you like noodles in no time.

 

On top of that: cant heal yourself through one DPS? Why not? Interrupts dont lock out a school, just a single ability. Switch heals. (not that all dps have interrupts). When rolling as Marskman Sniper, ive piled onto a healer with an arsenal merc and a sorceror and never gotten the guy below 50%.

 

Maybe you're doing something wrong. (And no, it's not the gear - full champ if i needed it, removed some to get an extra 25% surge, and only lost .6% expertise). Healers are very durable, and it regularly takes 2-3 dps to put them down.

[painsponge]

agreed completely on the camera issue, its unbelievably annoying.

[Marmerus]

you fail to understand how being employed at a publicly traded company works. Congrats for you!

 

/golfclap

[Mrs_Murder]

Who is this guy and why should I listen to him for 30 minutes?

 

Edit: First he complains about the RNG system. While the RNG system is bugged/needs polishing, this sounds to me like he started playing WoW during or after TBC where you could PVP for an hour then choose your purpalz (as opposed to Vanilla where you had to grind your gear for 6 months and actually earn it) = a spoiled WoW-kid in my book. The RNG compared with BM grind is a good solution in my opinion.

Then he compares the bugs to WoW. WoW has been out for 8(!) years. He's comparing a 1 month old game to an 8 year old game...?

Stopped watching there. WoW-kids' (ie post-vanilla, after everything got noobiefied and they catered to the crying kids) opinions is like tween girls' opinion of Justin Bieber.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Mrs_Murder

[krookie]

thank god for you people who fancy yourselves critics

 

 

the game has only been out a little more than a month.....

 

 

really?

 

So it's OK for PCGamers to gush over the game in their review that was released on Dec. 22nd? Or most of these other positive "professional" reviews that have been released before the game has even been out for a month?

 

Or does "the game has only been out for a month" apply only to negative reviews?

 

It wasn't even a review anyway. The guy in the video gave his channel's subscribers his personal reasons for quitting. It was mostly his opinion and he did say that he's looking forward to 1.2 and may even come back.

Edited January 29, 2012 by krookie

[Mannic]

who was picking nits?

 

Oh, yeah, you avoided everything i said that refuted your crap.

 

Got it.

 

You didn't refute anything. Every example you gave is exactly what I said; a slight variation in a skill that doesn't significantly change the dynamic of that class.

 

I'm sorry, but being able to attack from longer range for a few seconds with force lightning after I've used a specific ability with a CD that lets me do so does not suddenly make the Sin a completely different style of play than an Operative. If anything, it's like the same class only I just chose to put a couple points in a different skill on the tree. In WoW I could choose to take Shadowstep, or not. That one skill-tree decision for ONE class in rogue would completely change the entire philosophy of how you play the class.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Mannic

[justregularjoe]

Get a tank to Guard you. That's their job. Then have him taunt the big, bad dps. Theyll be hitting you like noodles in no time.

 

On top of that: cant heal yourself through one DPS? Why not? Interrupts dont lock out a school, just a single ability. Switch heals. (not that all dps have interrupts). When rolling as Marskman Sniper, ive piled onto a healer with an arsenal merc and a sorceror and never gotten the guy below 50%.

 

Maybe you're doing something wrong. (And no, it's not the gear - full champ if i needed it, removed some to get an extra 25% surge, and only lost .6% expertise). Healers are very durable, and it regularly takes 2-3 dps to put them down.

 

 

Dude you are so obviously a fanboi its not even funny.

 

 

 

The game has issues.

 

Am I still having fun ? Yes.

 

But the fact that you would disregard the rest of my post and pick out one line to blast shows the reason you are here. Not to be constructive, but the bring down everyone else.

 

When I played my priest In WoW, I could kite around a few DPS until I ran out of mana. That is exactly how it should be- when I am out of resources I die. In this game, all it takes is one smart geared dps.

 

I have a tank guard me, because it is the only way to play a healer and not get completely destroyed. The game design is flawed - healers should not have to have a tank with them to be competitive.

Edited January 29, 2012 by justregularjoe