Difference between false marketing and fraud.

[SOONERFREAK]

idk what ad you saw but UP TO 5 days was pretty big.

[Shlamorel]

No problem! Though in the FAQ you have to pull out your reading comprehension to actually "Get" that it's up to 5-7 days.

 

The link to the FAQ is: Here.

 

Scroll down a little bit. It answers when EGA begins, and when it ends.

 

Oh ok, so you and I share the same exact opinion then (I think(. I thought you were disagreeing but I misread your post I believe. The FAQ is in-line with some of the evidence we've shown here.

[Neofate]

BW could not have been clearer. How would you inform customer better than ' The order in which you preorder will be the order in which you receive EGA? '

 

Again, I am HAPPY now with the end result.

 

BUT -- This could have gone much worse.

 

That said -- With the kind of money BW has thrown at them for development etc.. this should have never been an issue of having to 'stagger' people due to equipment malfunction.

 

They have the money to , even if for a TEMPORARY time period, invest in the server equipment to handle 10 million customers logging in simultaneously if that is what they needed to provide.

 

A big , large part of this was/is a cutting cost, money issue that EA didn't want to pay any more than they had to. They spent MILLIONS on their servers.. but in 2012,.. we have the technology to put together server equipment due to near infinite scalability to handle as many people as you are required.

 

This isn't speculation, its fact. Is it REALLY REALLY expensive.. heck yes.

 

What's my point?

 

The idea of having to take the order in which one person put in a code online being the order in which they were allowed to enter said game they purchased for up to $150,.. should never have existed.

 

It should have been Pre-Order now, and play 5 days early. Or 7 days early.. or whatever they wanted to give people.

 

This would have the SAME result in monetary terms,.. but everyone would get at X time.. without huge queues and crashing.

 

For some reason people seem to think that there MUST be queues, there MUST be crashing, and so on. That just isn't the case. With enough money, you can host ten times the subscriber/pre-order base EA/BW has accumulated with this game so far.

 

So in the end.. it all comes down to, money.

 

Doesn't it always?

[MrTijger]

Oh ok, so you and I share the same exact opinion then (I think(. I thought you were disagreeing but I misread your post I believe. The FAQ is in-line with some of the evidence we've shown here.

 

Evidence? Evidence? We dont need no stinkin' evidence, we got entitlement!

 

And to think I'll be playing the same game as some of those posters...oh, the humanity...

[salemz]

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5824/swtorj.png

 

^

 

Yes this is a good marketing making it clear up front that you may only get 1 day of early access. I dont see how anyone could be confused.

 

Should have spent more on servers then the cut scenes/voice acting.

Edited December 15, 2011 by salemz

[EmmanuelFR]

Its true, what you say. I do not want to drag Bioware and EA to court or something, im simply saying that maybe we shouldnt be to hard on people that feel that they have been misled because i think that they have good reason to feel bad about the pre release offer ect.

No prob. It was just a clarification ^^

[Mytilus]

The numerous threads on this subject have not gone unnoticed at bioware or indeed unheeded. I suspect this is why we got two extra days of ealry access and almost all pre-orders will get 5 days.

[Trixy]

I blame the lack of competence in the average MMO consumer. An intelligent consumer, in any field of purchase, does their research prior to spending any money on a product... Especially one as steep as video games are getting now. An intelligent player would have found the FAQ, and looked for answers to the questions and concerns they have for the service that they are guaranteed. In this case it's clear that 90% of the QQ threads that are spamming these forums are created, and bumped, by players who lack the foresight and sensibility to dig a little bit, and actually "Read". No, I think most of them watched the pretty cenimatics, got hyped, and then busted a nut when they found out (Because they didn't take the time to read) that pre-ordering doesn't give you a VIP pass to 13th invitations. It just gives you a VIP pass to getting in before all the Launch crazies.

[Draperx]

if i have 3 dollars and tell you i may give you up to 5 dollars is that false advertising

 

because I guarantee you Bioware knew full well they would not possibly give some people 5 days.

 

hence, false advertising.

 

Saying you may give someone something with no intention of that ever being possible = false advertising regardless how you word it

[Areka]

You got it right OP, this must be the thread on the forum that has the most truth of them all

 

Edit: remember a lot of fanbois and people who are already in the game is going to come in here and act like idi.... but just don't listen to them...

 

Yes, of course! If someone disagrees, he is an idiot. Thank you so much for insulting so many of us. Really appreciated.

 

 

 

True story. ¬.¬

[Trixy]

if i have 3 dollars and tell you i may give you up to 5 dollars is that false advertising

 

because I guarantee you Bioware knew full well they would not possibly give some people 5 days.

 

hence, false advertising.

 

Saying you may give someone something with no intention of that ever being possible = false advertising regardless how you word it

 

People have "Gotten" 5 days, and some even "MORE" of early access. Once again, people need to take the time to read things thoroughly before they buy. Because had they taken that time, they would have found that pre-ordering late means they probably won't "Get" 5 days, and it's only logical to be honest. But all this griping is pointless, considering everyone will be getting atleast 4, and most will be getting 5 or more.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Trixy

[criticalchris]

Another detail, sience we are on the subject. People get access depending on when they preordered. Fine, there are servers ready to hold as many people and more that will start playing on release date. So if we are say 1 million players that pre ordered, and we are in que to join servers made to hold what, 5-10 million players? Did everyone expect it to take three/four days until its your turn? I figured it might be a few hours between the first and last costumer.

 

Did you guys know then that it would be done in waves, and people would sit in the "thinker" position infront of monitors, yawning... going to bed and stop inviting... come back and send a few more... all the way to release date?

 

Vague info so you wouldnt know when its your turn and so forth?

 

Imagine real life, you que to a new opened store. Huge electronics store and you stand in line on the opening day, when the doors open the first ten costumers out of a thousand get in... the store can hold everyone but no... the manager says sorry, we have to monitor these costumers ten at the time. The rest stand outside for several hours, store manager comes out... sorry... we are closed for today. Wait in line... the second day... same thing happen.

 

In real life, there would have been a god damn riot! =)

[ShadCougar]

Honestly, It is not a VIP line.. if it was, we would not have the people who bought the CE whining about having to wait with the rest of us little people. It is in the order in which you entered your preorder code. The people who claimed to have been playing 1st wave and bought the game in December? They were lieing to cause trouble. If the company you pruchased the game from claims that you were garunteed 5 days early access (which for the record is today) then your complaint is with them.

As to a lawsuit. If this became a class-action lawsuit that accually went to court, it would be an even bigger travesty of tort law then the infamous McDonald's Coffee case.

[Cookie_monsta]

There might be marketing fraud. They said up to 5 days yes however if they knew that people who bought the game in lets say December when there adverts still said up to 5 days had no chance of having the full 5 days due to a set schedule then that means they knew full well that who ever buys the game won't have access to the full 5 days and that there was no chance or luck at all.

[Nyek]

This would NEVER go to court lol.

 

If people actually engaged their brains when preordering then they would know a wait would ensue if you preordered late. However most people don't bother to engage their brains and see "5 days" and "early access" and step every other word.

 

As for the OP, if a company stated in their contract that the customer signed that they will get a car toy then that customer has no ground to stand on, a contract is legally binding and if that person didn't read the contract its their problem.

[Draperx]

Another detail, sience we are on the subject. People get access depending on when they preordered. Fine, there are servers ready to hold as many people and more that will start playing on release date. So if we are say 1 million players that pre ordered, and we are in que to join servers made to hold what, 5-10 million players? Did everyone expect it to take three/four days until its your turn? I figured it might be a few hours between the first and last costumer.

 

Did you guys know then that it would be done in waves, and people would sit in the "thinker" position infront of monitors, yawning... going to bed and stop inviting... come back and send a few more... all the way to release date?

 

Vague info so you wouldnt know when its your turn and so forth?

 

Imagine real life, you que to a new opened store. Huge electronics store and you stand in line on the opening day, when the doors open the first ten costumers out of a thousand get in... the store can hold everyone but no... the manager says sorry, we have to monitor these costumers ten at the time. The rest stand outside for several hours, store manager comes out... sorry... we are closed for today. Wait in line... the second day... same thing happen.

 

In real life, there would have been a gosh darn riot! =)

 

completely different.

 

using the example with rift

 

you are placed x in the que estimated time to get in 2 hours, no worries i'll go do the shopping mowing etc.

 

pretty sure old matey manager isn't going to hold you place in the "real life que" and let you check in on it every so often.

 

complete analogy fail

[criticalchris]

VIP line or not, is another discussion. To simplify it, fine its a regular line.

Use this release as a cause to drag a company to court? No, wasnt part of the point i was making and i absolutely agree that there is no base to make this a legal issue.

 

To simplify, i accept the terms of the Early access, its in print.

I understand people, that feel misled, i dont think they are "idiots" ect.

Personaly, i dont like how the release was handled. =)

[DeeckTator]

I quess false marketing is when your customers can't bloody read.

 

Bioware, get your act together, teach your users to read.

[ShadCougar]

But BIOWARE never said "You will get 5 days of access". They said "You will get up to five days of access" Today is the 15th. If they get everyone in today (and lets be honest, they most likely will) They have more then delivered on what they said.

 

 

There might be marketing fraud. They said up to 5 days yes however if they knew that people who bought the game in lets say December when there adverts still said up to 5 days had no chance of having the full 5 days due to a set schedule then that means they knew full well that who ever buys the game won't have access to the full 5 days and that there was no chance or luck at all.

 

*edited for a typo

Edited December 15, 2011 by ShadCougar

[Rolgan]

There might be marketing fraud. They said up to 5 days yes however if they knew that people who bought the game in lets say December when there adverts still said up to 5 days had no chance of having the full 5 days due to a set schedule then that means they knew full well that who ever buys the game won't have access to the full 5 days and that there was no chance or luck at all.

 

No. They'll garuntee that you get at least one day by saying that, perhaps more. If some people misinterperate what they read, thats nobodys fault but there own.

 

Also, at the current rate of waves, everyone will be in before the 5 days anyway! In which case they've exceeded most peoples expectations. It's also highlighted just how whiny and immature a lot of the community is.

[Lord_of_Stone]

Wait, are people really thinking most people will get in today?

[criticalchris]

I quess false marketing is when your customers can't bloody read.

 

Bioware, get your act together, teach your users to read.

 

False marketing laws, are not made for people who cant read. Its made for people who dont have the time to go in depth with regular day shoping, perhapes they have better things to do.

 

Imagine if you had to go to the store and buy everyday products, but sience false marketing laws where off and companies could do anything they wanted as long as it was in the fine print. Would take a full day to buy regular day to day merchendise cause you had to read all the fineprint and EUELA ect. Fresh tasty milk! The box says, in fine print it says they have bull semen in it, or you go buy a regular book, fine print says... by purchasing this book the author may sleep with your wife ect.

 

When i shop, and many others we want the product to deliver the basics in 2-3 lines to speed up the process of shopping, mixed with basic laws that makes sure you cant mislead with those few lines.

[Draperx]

Again, because some people clearly don't understand maths.

 

Up to 5 = Greater than 0% chance of 5

 

Exacly like if i have 3 dollars and say i will give you up to 5 dollars.

 

Actually means Up to 3 dollars or it's false advertising

 

whne the possibility of 5 days became 0 Bioware should have changed the advertisement to up to 4 etc

 

if you can't understand that L2maths

[ShadCougar]

And if you go buy the game now, and enter the pre-order code, you will probably still get to play today. it is right now 5 days before game start, and they have gotten people who preorder up through October 2nd in. I think there is a very good chance that all remaining preorders will be in today.

 

 

Again, because some people clearly don't understand maths.

 

Up to 5 = Greater than 0% chance of 5

 

Exacly like if i have 3 dollars and say i will give you up to 5 dollars.

 

Actually means Up to 3 dollars or it's false advertising

 

whne the possibility of 5 days became 0 Bioware should have changed the advertisement to up to 4 etc

 

if you can't understand that L2maths

[Enlaw]

I wonder when BioWare will just throw their hands up and say "Enough with the friggin' ingrates!"?

 

ANY access before the 20th... is EARLY access. I know, I know..it's akin to calculating the volume of fuel required for getting a rocket to the moon. But with a little effort, you too can figure it out!

 

Am I missing anything? Do kittens, puppies, and/or baby pandas die for every person who has to wait to the 20th to play?