Level 49 PVPers: I feel sorry for you :(

[kckkryptonite]

PVE is gear progression. PVP is about competing against other players for enjoyment. Its not about pwning noobs.

 

And you intend to separate the two while giving no progression to PvP players?

[Torleen]

To some people it is, like myself. I come from SWG where top end gear was player made and sold.

 

Good times.

 

Preach it brother.

[RealAeiouy]

The funny thing about the random loot complaining is some people are getting loot FASTER than they would in a normalized system. Some of those people complain about random loot even though if the system changed it would take them longer to get gear.

 

People act like it takes longer for everyone. Most people average out to be relatively close to a static timeline anyways with only very few outliers. The complaining about random loot exceeds any actual problem by 1000%.

[Torleen]

this

 

I did this and was lucky enough to get 2 pieces of gear the same day i hit 50. Had 9 bags. This should be common practice for all 49s.

 

I also agree with what was posted earlier. A fresh 50 should NOT be able to go toe to toe with a veteran 50 PvPer. That's why making friends and creating premades are important.

 

Just a hint, when a 50 veteran PVPer owns a new 50 PVPer it should not be because he does 30% more damage and takes 30% less. That's like saying because I played Streetfighter longer then you I should be able to turn up the handicap and nerf your health bar. And then gleefully claim I "owned" you.

 

PVP should not be a grind contest.

[indelible]

The funny thing about the random loot complaining is some people are getting loot FASTER than they would in a normalized system. Some of those people complain about random loot even though if the system changed it would take them longer to get gear.

 

People act like it takes longer for everyone. Most people average out to be relatively close to a static timeline anyways with only very few outliers. The complaining about random loot exceeds any actual problem by 1000%.

 

The problem isn't the time it takes people to get gear.

 

It's the perception that people have of the distribution system, and how fair it is for the player. People would be happy if it took them longer to get gear IF that gear was at the end of a fixed and visible line of progression (for example, a fixed currency system).

[Torleen]

The funny thing about the random loot complaining is some people are getting loot FASTER than they would in a normalized system. Some of those people complain about random loot even though if the system changed it would take them longer to get gear.

 

People act like it takes longer for everyone. Most people average out to be relatively close to a static timeline anyways with only very few outliers. The complaining about random loot exceeds any actual problem by 1000%.

 

So the people who grind for weeks and get nothing are supposed to feel better because someone else ground for less and got all their gear?

 

For some reason that does not make a lot of sense.

[indelible]

Just a hint, when a 50 veteran PVPer owns a new 50 PVPer it should not be because he does 30% more damage and takes 30% less. That's like saying because I played Streetfighter longer then you I should be able to turn up the handicap and nerf your health bar. And then gleefully claim I "owned" you.

 

PVP should not be a grind contest.

 

Erm.

 

Where is everyone getting this "30% more damage and takes 30% less"?

 

Firstly: Expertise is capped at 20%, however you can't even vaguely hit that cap in the current tiers of gear.

 

Secondly: It's a percentile, not a flat damage increase, and it's applied at base.

 

Thirdly: Once you start getting Expertise the impact it has is mitigated significantly. For example, a fully geared Battlemaster is only doing about 3% more damage and taken 3% less damage than a Champ/Cent geared player. The increase and difference between tiers is negligible; it's entirely possible, not strange at all, and quite common for a full Cent geared player to beat a full Battlemaster geared player 1v1.

[AidenPryde]

LOL

 

No it isn't.

 

Maths clearly isn't your field.

 

Yes it is. 10% attack against other players, 10% healing done to yourself and others, 10% defense against other players.

 

10% x 3 = 30%.

 

 

Erm.

 

Where is everyone getting this "30% more damage and takes 30% less"?

 

Firstly: Expertise is capped at 20%, however you can't even vaguely hit that cap in the current tiers of gear.

 

Secondly: It's a percentile, not a flat damage increase, and it's applied at base.

 

Thirdly: Once you start getting Expertise the impact it has is mitigated significantly. For example, a fully geared Battlemaster is only doing about 3% more damage and taken 3% less damage than a Champ/Cent geared player. The increase and difference between tiers is negligible; it's entirely possible, not strange at all, and quite common for a full Cent geared player to beat a full Battlemaster geared player 1v1.

 

See above please. Look at the stat. It effects all three of those categories.

Edited January 28, 2012 by AidenPryde

[indelible]

Yes it is. 10% attack against other players, 10% healing done to yourself and others, 10% defense against other players.

 

10% x 3 = 30%.

 

 

 

 

See above please. Look at the stat. It effects all three of those categories.

 

Oh my...

 

I'm not going to explain where you're going wrong, because it is - frankly - glaringly obvious.

 

You're either consciously misconstruing the mechanics of the stat (and ignoring how it factors in) OR you just don't understand.

[Torleen]

Erm.

 

Where is everyone getting this "30% more damage and takes 30% less"?

 

Firstly: Expertise is capped at 20%, however you can't even vaguely hit that cap in the current tiers of gear.

 

Secondly: It's a percentile, not a flat damage increase, and it's applied at base.

 

Thirdly: Once you start getting Expertise the impact it has is mitigated significantly. For example, a fully geared Battlemaster is only doing about 3% more damage and taken 3% less damage than a Champ/Cent geared player. The increase and difference between tiers is negligible; it's entirely possible, not strange at all, and quite common for a full Cent geared player to beat a full Battlemaster geared player 1v1.

 

I was not quoting specific math. Just using a random number. My point still stands.

[Aega]

And you intend to separate the two while giving no progression to PvP players?

 

Ofcourse not! But lets get creative with how to reward players for their efforts. You simply CAN NOT take a PVE mechanic and slap it on PVP. That is what has been done and that is why it fails.

 

With moddable gear, it should be easy enough to still give cool looking, exclusive gear that will not create an imbalance. Vehicles, titles; for that matter, give out exclusive companions earned only through pvp accomplishments.

 

There are plenty of things that would reward players for pvp that doesn't that break down to "my old gear had +2, my new pvp gear has +4! Yay, I have a feeling of accomplishment AND I get roflstomp those who still have the +2 gear!".

[indelible]

I was not quoting specific math. Just using a random number. My point still stands.

 

And my counter point was: your point doesn't tally with my experiences.

 

I PvP on two characters. One is in Cent/Champ gear and the other is in no PvP gear.

 

I do not mind getting destroyed on my "PvE" character, but it RARELY happens.

 

On my PvP character, I get owned by the appropriate classes... but Battlemaster gear does NOT make the difference you are suggesting. As I said... they have 3,3,3% stat increase on me... and that is nothing.

Edited January 28, 2012 by indelible

[jasonthelamb]

So the people who grind for weeks and get nothing are supposed to feel better because someone else ground for less and got all their gear?

 

For some reason that does not make a lot of sense.

 

I've opened 15 bags and got 2 pieces of gear, an offhand saber (yay im a juggernaut) and a belt (I have the tionese one that has like +30 str on it)

 

 

So yeah, I get my *** whooped in PvP from time to time.

[HeyImTempzz]

You're about to enter into the Warzone/Ilum area, and what you're about to face is going to either make you re-decide PVP in this game, or go PVE and avoid PVP.

 

I am really concerned about this Expertise system, and the "Bag-O-Fail" system.

 

49's coming into battle

(you will be slaughtered like pigs, you are in my prayers)

 

• zero expertise, battles become extreme
  
• less survival
  
• less damage output
  
• less endurance
  
• no gear set for level 49's to enter into the level 50 Warzones to have better chances against those with Champion/Battlemaster gear (they walk in with 18 expertise)
  

 

"Bag-O-Fail" system

(simply a bad idea for giving out gear. Luck gears a player along with mass amounts of time spent -- skill need not apply)

 

• creates farm teams (sharing accounts, or paying someone to farm 24hr WZs for you)
  
• offers no real reward, just if you have the time, you gear (and a lot of time)
  
• skilled players are provided with no challenge
  
• continue to get the same item over and over, no option to turn in for something you really need an upgrade in
  
• 30WZ Commendations for 10 Mercenary (should be 30 for 15 -- at least)
  
• objectives, ranking system should be implemented to say you achieved something to get the gear
  
• allow those who are 49 to obtain the level 50 gear (or provide them with a lower tier set to enter warzones with right away) but simply not be allowed to wear the gear until 50
  

 

Level 49's are about to embark on a horrible PVP system soon, and those already know exactly what that is.

 

I have a really bad headache at the moment, so I have thrown this out without a pure statistical reference. The information provided here is just off the top of my head -- and how I see problems within the game -- BioWare really needs to look into this PVP system rapidly with passion.

 

Right now Warzone PVP is: The Rich get Richer, the Poor get Poorer. (I hope they change this, and soon)

 

Currently I am mostly Champion, I was slightly behind those who got into the game early and those who do nothing but play. Even I see struggle -- but level 49's about to enter into a fully geared level 50 Warzone are going to feel the wrath of BioWare.

 

To level 49 players: rejoice and enjoy the time you have at level 49, think back to how much fun and exploration you had while leveling. If I beat you in a Warzone, I hold no remorse towards you.

 

 

I just hit 50 on my 2nd ALT... got 6 bags from WZ comendations 2 bags from dailys and 6 bags from weeklys... im now almost full champions and have no problems... so i guess.... ill see you in illum ^^

[HeyImTempzz]

Oh my...

 

I'm not going to explain where you're going wrong, because it is - frankly - glaringly obvious.

 

You're either consciously misconstruing the mechanics of the stat (and ignoring how it factors in) OR you just don't understand.

 

2 Nill 2 you xD

[Kelticfury]

I really need to break it down for you? NO ONE can argue that gearing up at level 50 with no Battlemaster 50s waiting for you is much easier than if they were present.

 

So you are complaining that the people that paid for early access got rewarded by having early access?

 

Common sense dude. The handfull of people who worked their way up early are just that. A handfull of people. Would you make these same complaints in a game like WoW? The early accessers from WoW are so long in the past, and the situation is the same, heavily geared beats ungeared.

 

All I am hearing is that you have some early access envy. Its not that horrific anyway. Its pvp, you win some you lose some. And for people like us who didn't powergrind to 50 with little opposition, the reward will be that much sweeter because its an actual accomplishment.

 

I am in the same boat as you, I will have to face the masses of top level 50s. The difference is that I am not going to burst a bloodvessel over it. Even if you lose a wz you still get a reward. its not like you get nothing for losing.

[AidenPryde]

Oh my...

 

I'm not going to explain where you're going wrong, because it is - frankly - glaringly obvious.

 

You're either consciously misconstruing the mechanics of the stat (and ignoring how it factors in) OR you just don't understand.

 

If you're so smart then explain it to the masses. I know for a fact that my Smash hits non-expertise people for 3k and only 1500 on a BM.

[Barrechor]

More like: Level 49 players with as much gear as they can get, go into massive shock as they turn 50 and lose access to face rolling in the lowbie brackets and become faceroll fodder for the leet geared 50s. Film at 11... Wear a raincoat.

 

If this were the whole truth I would have far more sympathy for a lot of these whining fresh 50s.

 

However, I always inspect guys I dont recognise in WZs. The amount of these fresh 50s coming into lv50 pvp with green level 44 mods or blue lv46 mods is quite unbelievable and I will always tell them to get their arse to the GTN or a commendations vendor to buy better mods.

 

Most (Not all I'll admit) level 50s coming into level 50 pvp are undergeared for level 48 or 49, nevermind level 50.

 

Get to 50 and take a few days off from pvp, run your belsavis and Ilum pve dailies and earn the level 50 (Not lv49) purple mods they hand out and the 160k+ a day they give out. Get your arse onto the GTN and buy better gear, giving yourself the best chance possible when you go into a WZ.

 

That is unfortunately, too much effort for a lot of the whining brats coming on here. Most people dont want to put in the effort for the good stuff and want it handed to them on a plate.

[Kelticfury]

If you're so smart then explain it to the masses. I know for a fact that my Smash hits non-expertise people for 3k and only 1500 on a BM.

 

So you crit on undergeared folks for 3k and non crit a bm for 1500.

[kckkryptonite]

Ofcourse not! But lets get creative with how to reward players for their efforts. You simply CAN NOT take a PVE mechanic and slap it on PVP. That is what has been done and that is why it fails.

 

With moddable gear, it should be easy enough to still give cool looking, exclusive gear that will not create an imbalance. Vehicles, titles; for that matter, give out exclusive companions earned only through pvp accomplishments.

 

There are plenty of things that would reward players for pvp that doesn't that break down to "my old gear had +2, my new pvp gear has +4! Yay, I have a feeling of accomplishment AND I get roflstomp those who still have the +2 gear!".

 

Wouldn't people then grind PvE for top-end gear? Which, quite frankly takes more effort to get. It's all great in theory, but I haven't seen an MMO accomplish (mostly) non-gear based PvP well since UO, pre-AoS.

Edited January 28, 2012 by kckkryptonite

[Poor_Grammar]

You don't need to feel bad for me, son. It's completely unrealistic to expect me to be able initially compete with those that have put dozens of hours into gearing themselves up.

 

Why, what kind of self serving, impatient, disassociated noob do think I am to honestly expect to come into something with rank 13 and dominate those that that have clearly worked put more time and effort into it?

[Kelticfury]

If this were the whole truth I would have far more sympathy for a lot of these whining fresh 50s.

 

However, I always inspect guys I dont recognise in WZs. The amount of these fresh 50s coming into lv50 pvp with green level 44 mods or blue lv46 mods is quite unbelievable and I will always tell them to get their arse to the GTN or a commendations vendor to buy better mods.

 

First thing I do EVERY level is either remod my oranges and/or hit the gtn looking for purples. I just assumed most people do the same. If you don't keep your toon up to date, you are gonna pay the price.

[Torleen]

And my counter point was: your point doesn't tally with my experiences.

 

I PvP on two characters. One is in Cent/Champ gear and the other is in no PvP gear.

 

I do not mind getting destroyed on my "PvE" character, but it RARELY happens.

 

On my PvP character, I get owned by the appropriate classes... but Battlemaster gear does NOT make the difference you are suggesting. As I said... they have 3,3,3% stat increase on me... and that is nothing.

 

I am speaking in terms of "PVP theory" in general, and that is that the more experienced player is more effective because he practiced his class and rotation and perfected his build to fit his style. Not because of some stupid mathematical benefit.

[Barrechor]

First thing I do EVERY level is either remod my oranges and/or hit the gtn looking for purples. I just assumed most people do the same. If you don't keep your toon up to date, you are gonna pay the price.

 

That really is the case with a lot of the people whining though. Some guy on our server this afternoon is a case in point. Complaining because he was getting killed in seconds flat in lv50 pvp. I roll around fleet and find him. There he is with full lv40 blue mods on his lv40 pvp vendor pants. His highest level mod was a blue 48 on his saber and there was only 2 level 48 mods on his entire set of armor.

[Kelticfury]

I am speaking in terms of "PVP theory" in general, and that is that the more experienced player is more effective because he practiced his class and rotation and perfected his build to fit his style. Not because of some stupid mathematical benefit.

 

I agree with you there, knowledge of your abilities and what situations to use them in will negate a percentage advantage, unless you are going up against someone who also knows their abilities/situationals as well as you do. And even then it is possible to win, there are many factors you can use to your advantage, line of sight, using your cc AFTER they blow their cc break etc. Nothing is set in stone.