Damage Meter, how to get if you want?

[Miotoss]

LMAO! There sure are going to be a lot of butthurt people when combat logs and addons get introduced to the game.

 

It's coming, people... Get over it.

Ignorance is bliss. People who want no parser are the people who were picked last to do anything in other MMO's. Truth hurts. Edited December 15, 2011 by Miotoss

[Skeelol]

LMAO! There sure are going to be a lot of butthurt people when combat logs and addons get introduced to the game.

 

It's coming, people... Get over it.

 

Indeed, gonna be a funny day on the forums.

[Mephane]

While I understand that there are valid reasons for some people wanting a dps metering addon or parser to evaluate their own performance, don't forget the pile of jerks using them to judge other people based on their 'performance', flaming the guy who does x% less dps than the entitled jerk thinks he ought to, and possibly kicking someone from the group when they are leader, despite the group doing just fine.

 

Not having a combat log, damage meters etc. so far makes this so much more enjoyable. I was BT yesterday, with three random people, and it was great fun, no one cared how much damage anyone did, what the healer's output was etc. We just rolled on (and over the Republic, heh) and had a great time. Last time I played WoW doing random dungeons was always a gamble on when the idiot will destroy the experience, possibly even busting the party, with their self-entitlement to judge other people on some arbitrary numbers. See also: gearscore. *shudder*

[Finstor]

LMAO! There sure are going to be a lot of butthurt people when combat logs and addons get introduced to the game.

 

It's coming, people... Get over it.

 

No there wont be alot of butthurt people. Its vocal minority that are against them, most dont care about them or use them. Just like most ppl werent butthurt about not getting in early, they knew the rules and are just waiting quietly to get in.

[Miotoss]

If the developers designed the game to be played with damage meters, then I would understand their inclusion.

 

They did not. This game should be fully playable without using damage meters, and that's how I intend to play it. It's not that hard to figure out who isn't pulling their weight in a group. Especially when flashpoints are 4 man groups, and operations can be only 8. You shouldn't be running an operation of 16 people with strangers anyways.

 

If this were true why did they at one time have one in the game? It was taken out because it didnt function well enough for release. You have an answer for that my kind sir?

[Marcato]

No there wont be alot of butthurt people. Its vocal minority that are against them, most dont care about them or use them. Just like most ppl werent butthurt about not getting in early, they knew the rules and are just waiting quietly to get in.

 

The vocal minority part is important to remember. Get off these forums or see a chat in a livestream and you would be hard pressed to find the kind of hatred of numbers and performance monitoring that you find here.

[Miotoss]

While I understand that there are valid reasons for some people wanting a dps metering addon or parser to evaluate their own performance, don't forget the pile of jerks using them to judge other people based on their 'performance', flaming the guy who does x% less dps than the entitled jerk thinks he ought to, and possibly kicking someone from the group when they are leader, despite the group doing just fine.

 

Not having a combat log, damage meters etc. so far makes this so much more enjoyable. I was BT yesterday, with three random people, and it was great fun, no one cared how much damage anyone did, what the healer's output was etc. We just rolled on (and over the Republic, heh) and had a great time. Last time I played WoW doing random dungeons was always a gamble on when the idiot will destroy the experience, possibly even busting the party, with their self-entitlement to judge other people on some arbitrary numbers. See also: gearscore. *shudder*

 

While I understand it hurts to be bullied. Lets get this straight if you are bad at your job you will get fired. Well recount is made as a performance judgement tool. If you are bad the people you play with deserve to know that. Otherwise you are the jerk wasting their time.

[Lheoric]

If by bad you mean saw more content in any game they will ever play than you will and down it. Than yeah they are bad. That's why their builds / guides are gospel in wow. Let me ask you this how many guilds refused to take you on raids that made you this bitter?

 

actually? none. I think you missed the post where I said I atleast want parsers (ie combat log returned) so that I can max my class. I guess i misread too you made it seem like ej didn't need parsers math is good and they had the formulas but they still needed the raw data to plug in and yes I do realize this about ej that's another reason I want a parser so people who can get on all day can post guides similar to those on ej.

[Skeelol]

While I understand that there are valid reasons for some people wanting a dps metering addon or parser to evaluate their own performance, don't forget the pile of jerks using them to judge other people based on their 'performance', flaming the guy who does x% less dps than the entitled jerk thinks he ought to, and possibly kicking someone from the group when they are leader, despite the group doing just fine.

 

Not having a combat log, damage meters etc. so far makes this so much more enjoyable. I was BT yesterday, with three random people, and it was great fun, no one cared how much damage anyone did, what the healer's output was etc. We just rolled on (and over the Republic, heh) and had a great time. Last time I played WoW doing random dungeons was always a gamble on when the idiot will destroy the experience, possibly even busting the party, with their self-entitlement to judge other people on some arbitrary numbers. See also: gearscore. *shudder*

 

While gearscore was... i can't even find a term for it that won't get censored... recount on the other hand has always been a great tool to judge performance.

[Liaskar]

If this were true why did they at one time have one in the game? It was taken out because it didnt function well enough for release. You have an answer for that my kind sir?

 

When I was in beta, they had no such thing. And since the game seems to be perfectly playable without it, I don't see how that even effects my point.

 

I also love that people are so quick to say that people against damage meters are horrible players who never got group invites. Because no good player could possibly have a different opinion than yours, right?

[Miotoss]

actually? none. I think you missed the post where I said I atleast want parsers (ie combat log returned) so that I can max my class. I guess i misread too you made it seem like ej didn't need parsers math is good and they had the formulas but they still needed the raw data to plug in and yes I do realize this about ej that's another reason I want a parser so people who can get on all day can post guides similar to those on ej.

 

I apologize heat of the moment type deal. I have limited time to play, but when I play I want to know that the least amount of hiccups are going to disrupt that. That includes bad players who Quote " Just wanna have fun oh girls just wanna have fun"

[Skeelol]

I also love that people are so quick to say that people against damage meters are horrible players who never got group invites. Because no good player could possibly have a different opinion than yours, right?

 

That's correct. I've never met a good player who'd think that way.

[Miotoss]

While gearscore was... i can't even find a term for it that won't get censored... recount on the other hand has always been a great tool to judge performance.

 

Gear score was my biggest gripe in wow. I saw players with lesser gear pull better numbers while raiding and its not a judgement of skill as much as it is luck.

[itsshinzo]

Ok, I'm going to let you in on a little secret on how to tell what damage you're doing.

 

Turn on the option that displays the damage you're doing and then count really really fast, adding up the numbers in your head.

 

Then you get your total damage over the period of the fight. Now, divide the number you got by the length of the fight and you get your dps.

 

Easy, right?

[Miotoss]

When I was in beta, they had no such thing. And since the game seems to be perfectly playable without it, I don't see how that even effects my point.

 

I also love that people are so quick to say that people against damage meters are horrible players who never got group invites. Because no good player could possibly have a different opinion than yours, right?

 

Than explain why you are against them and saying its imbalanced is not a real explanation. Top guilds are already running these tools and putting out guides.

[AlpsStranger]

Ok, I'm going to let you in on a little secret on how to tell what damage you're doing.

 

Turn on the option that displays the damage you're doing and then count really really fast, adding up the numbers in your head.

 

Then you get your total damage over the period of the fight. Now, divide the number you got by the length of the fight and you get your dps.

 

Easy, right?

 

This is a stunningly dumb argument. Were this sort of argument taken seriously in the world at large we wouldn't have computers to game on in the first place.

[PurpleHazed]

Personally i would like a straight import of Skada.

 

It was a (DPS / HPS / Interupt / Cleanse /etc.) Meter when you were out of combat and a Threat Meter when you were in combat.

 

This takes up much less space then two seperate addons and stops the DPS racing each other at the cost of aggro which does become a problem when get to the highest end gear. It would also still let you retroactively check the numbers to make sure everyone was doing their jobs.

[Stejo]

And so it begins...

[Marcato]

If the developers designed the game to be played with damage meters, then I would understand their inclusion.

 

They did not. This game should be fully playable without using damage meters, and that's how I intend to play it. It's not that hard to figure out who isn't pulling their weight in a group. Especially when flashpoints are 4 man groups, and operations can be only 8. You shouldn't be running an operation of 16 people with strangers anyways.

 

That's like saying the presence of a combat log means they have to put numbers in the game.

 

They designed the game to use mathematical formulas, enrage timers, boss mechanics, etc. A combat meter is just the combat log in a more accessible and organized form. It's not a requirement nor was it ever but it's helpful to be able to use that information conveniently. If you want to play without one that's fine.

 

I would love to have the kind of omnipresence some people claim to have - being able to monitor the ability usage and performance of a full raid of people and knowing for a fact what's happening. Nobody I've met has had that ability and their assumptions haven't always been accurate.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Marcato

[Saitada]

Ignorance is bliss. People who want no parser are the people who were picked last to do anything in other MMO's Truth hurts.

 

I love the generalization here. I've been playing MMO's since BBS's had games like Tradewars2002 running on them.

 

Never personally used a damage meter. Been in guilds where they have been used by the guild leaders. I always learn my characters well. I've never been told my characters were not pulling their weight. Oh wait no, once I was because I had forgot to switch out weapons. Once the weapon was switched out, my character was running to spec again.

 

It's a matter of difference between a person actually KNOWING how to play their characters well and understanding why certain builds do certain things, and a person who doesn't know anything but what they are told through a damage meter, and not knowing why a certain build handles a certain way. Simply can't understand that usually.. though some can.

 

Personally, I see damage meters as crutches. People have become crippled by their use and simply can't see how to play without them, and that is WHY I personally do not use them... yet every character I have ever played has always scored well when the fight was broken down by a guild leader. maybe not tip top, but well within needs.

 

But then I am also a different breed of player. I take the time to learn my characters through and through, by experimenting with different builds and equipment.

 

However if people feel they need a crutch to learn how to build or maximize their characters.. why deprive a cripple of their tools right?

 

Now.. if you want to actually have a discussion instead of snarky responses.. I suggest you bring your attitude in check and start acting like an adult. Otherwise, all you will get in response back from people, is snarky childish responses in response to your snarky childish responses.

 

~Saitada

[Miotoss]

Ok, I'm going to let you in on a little secret on how to tell what damage you're doing.

 

Turn on the option that displays the damage you're doing and then count really really fast, adding up the numbers in your head.

 

Then you get your total damage over the period of the fight. Now, divide the number you got by the length of the fight and you get your dps.

 

Easy, right?

 

problem is you cant avg out the dps you are doing w/o writing those numbers down and actually doing the math. Also if its about having fun all the time, why the hell would I want to sit there and do math to figure out my most proactive spec?

[Heze]

actually if any of you were in the rift lauch (during the first 3 months or so) it was quite fun b4 you noticed that 90% of ppl in pugs did like 200dps while you were actively doing 1k. that seriously changed some attitudes. cant rly say for the better.

 

"Do you ever just get down on your knees and thank God that you know me and have access to my dementia?"

- Seinfeld

[Miotoss]

I love the generalization here. I've been playing MMO's since BBS's had games like Tradewars2002 running on them.

 

Never personally used a damage meter. Been in guilds where they have been used by the guild leaders. I always learn my characters well. I've never been told my characters were not pulling their weight. Oh wait no, once I was because I had forgot to switch out weapons. Once the weapon was switched out, my character was running to spec again.

 

It's a matter of difference between a person actually KNOWING how to play their characters well and understanding why certain builds do certain things, and a person who doesn't know anything but what they are told through a damage meter, and not knowing why a certain build handles a certain way. Simply can't understand that usually.. though some can.

 

Personally, I see damage meters as crutches. People have become crippled by their use and simply can't see how to play without them, and that is WHY I personally do not use them... yet every character I have ever played has always scored well when the fight was broken down by a guild leader. maybe not tip top, but well within needs.

 

But then I am also a different breed of player. I take the time to learn my characters through and through, by experimenting with different builds and equipment.

 

However if people feel they need a crutch to learn how to build or maximize their characters.. why deprive a cripple of their tools right?

 

Now.. if you want to actually have a discussion instead of snarky responses.. I suggest you bring your attitude in check and start acting like an adult. Otherwise, all you will get in response back from people, is snarky childish responses in response to your snarky childish responses.

 

~Saitada

 

Its not a crutch, actually its far from it. It allows you to do thing faster than sitting there for hours paying constantly to respec. It also allows you to find out who is actually at fault when everything breaks down. It prevents the blame game in guilds and grps and lessens drama.

[Miotoss]

actually if any of you were in the rift lauch (during the first 3 months or so) it was quite fun b4 you noticed that 90% of ppl in pugs did like 200dps while you were actively doing 1k. that seriously changed some attitudes. cant rly say for the better.

 

"Do you ever just get down on your knees and thank God that you know me and have access to my dementia?"

- Seinfeld

 

You realize in rift people had 3rd party parsers from day one that ran out of game right as they do for swtor right now. Just because a game dosent allow mods dosent mean people dont have 3rd party apps running.

[Taroen]

I love the generalization here. I've been playing MMO's since BBS's had games like Tradewars2002 running on them.

 

Never personally used a damage meter. Been in guilds where they have been used by the guild leaders. I always learn my characters well. I've never been told my characters were not pulling their weight. Oh wait no, once I was because I had forgot to switch out weapons. Once the weapon was switched out, my character was running to spec again.

 

It's a matter of difference between a person actually KNOWING how to play their characters well and understanding why certain builds do certain things, and a person who doesn't know anything but what they are told through a damage meter, and not knowing why a certain build handles a certain way. Simply can't understand that usually.. though some can.

 

Personally, I see damage meters as crutches. People have become crippled by their use and simply can't see how to play without them, and that is WHY I personally do not use them... yet every character I have ever played has always scored well when the fight was broken down by a guild leader. maybe not tip top, but well within needs.

 

But then I am also a different breed of player. I take the time to learn my characters through and through, by experimenting with different builds and equipment.

 

However if people feel they need a crutch to learn how to build or maximize their characters.. why deprive a cripple of their tools right?

 

Now.. if you want to actually have a discussion instead of snarky responses.. I suggest you bring your attitude in check and start acting like an adult. Otherwise, all you will get in response back from people, is snarky childish responses in response to your snarky childish responses.

 

~Saitada

 

So basically what you're saying is that you don't use them... You just rely on other people to use them for you. You're such an awesomely skilled player that you didn't even know what weapon you were using until someone else told you that your numbers were too low. How did they know that, I wonder..?

 

Maybe... Just maybe... THEY USED A METER!!!