crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Which is something that not everyone agrees to be on equal footing. Which is fine. If they speak up and ask the group to change the game's default group loot rules before the group begins to run the FP, then they will know if the group agrees with them or not and they can then make an informed decision of whether to stay in the group or go find one that does agree instead. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 That reply was both "it's my right" and "it's my decision" all wrapped together with no real explanation of exactly what it is about cosmetics or companions that make them rise to the level of need over the functionality of a fellow player who is actually in the instance. People have different playstyles, really how hard is that to understand? Just because someone prefers looks over stats when choosing gear, they are automatically wrong? You get to tell them they are playing wrong and their notion of "need" isn't good enough to roll need? Do you understand now that your way or the majority's way isn't the ONLY way, and majority or not there is no right to force it upon others. And before any say something about me forcing mine on others, mine conflicts with the system as well, i'm not forcing the system on you, that's just how it is already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Okay. More to point. Your concept of what is a valid 'entitled' roll greatly outstrips my opinion of what qualifies. Therefore, you are inherently - in your estimation - entitled to more than I am. How can you possibly say that? You are entitled to roll too. If you don't or you pass or greed, is entirely your choice. Not mine, nor is it any of my business. But, just because you don't click need, does not in any infer that I should follow suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Haven't found any good mods I could buy with daily commendations. Again I don't need Aim as primary stat if I play melee class.You get a mod a day from the heroics.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Okay, I think you're still confused by what I'm saying. Items that can be equipped by anybody, regardless of whether they boost your stats or not? Sure, fair game. I'm talking specifically about those items that you cannot equip even if you wanted to. The ones that are restricted to a specific class. If an item can only be equipped by, say, Jedi, then I think the system should be set up so only Jedi can roll Need for it.I'm not sure any of those actually drop. I know I can make some with synthweaving (jedi knight/smuggler only, pieces, for example) but I don't remember any drops like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Which is something that not everyone agrees to be on equal footing. Your default position is that any perceived 'need' on your part - visual, stat or companion is equally important. I disagree with that assessment on its face. Your system benefits you and only you (unless everyone in your group shares it, of course) while mine benefits others as well. How can you possibly not agree? One players says they need it for x, you say you need it for y. You both roll and he wins. You feel aggrieved now? Why? You rolled and lost. If you do not want to roll greed because your playing the martyr card, fine, that's your choice. But don't dare dictate that anyone or everyone has to share your martyrdom. Obviously if you are going to roll greed all the time, you are going to offer a benefit to the other members. great good on you. I want to be in your group all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) *edit* Sorry ..forgot to quote the post I was referring to. self·ish /ˈsɛlfɪʃ/ Show Spelled[sel-fish] 1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others. 2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives --- dis·re·spect /ˌdɪsrɪˈspɛkt/ Show Spelled[dis-ri-spekt] Show IPA noun 1. lack of respect; discourtesy; rudeness. verb (used with object) 2. to regard or treat without respect; regard or treat with contempt or rudeness. Origin: 1605–15; dis-1 + respect Synonyms 1. contempt, disregard, irreverence. -- re·spect·ful /rɪˈspɛktfəl/ Show Spelled[ri-spekt-fuhl] Show IPA adjective full of, characterized by, or showing politeness or deference: a respectful reply. --- cour·te·ous /ˈkɜrtiəs/ Show Spelled[kur-tee-uhs] Show IPA adjective having or showing good manners; polite. --- Now you tell me who's argument better represents which definition The person who's insisting that he's the only one who's allowed to roll need, and gets incensed if you do for reasons that aren't in alignment with the ones that he has. Specifically, from least selfish to most selfish: the guy who passes on everythingthe guy who greeds on stuff he wants, and doesn't object if someone needs on it, even if they have different reasons for hitting need than he does.the guy who needs on stuff he wants, and doesn't object if someone needs on it, even if they have different reasons for hitting need than he does.the guy who needs on everythingthe guy who needs on stuff he wants and pitches a fit if someone else needs on it for a different reason other than his reasons Edited January 30, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How can you possibly say that? You are entitled to roll too. If you don't or you pass or greed, is entirely your choice. Not mine, nor is it any of my business. But, just because you don't click need, does not in any infer that I should follow suit. I say it because it is the baseline difference in our opinions. You feel you are entitled to roll on everything that drops in a group setting regardless of others present and the more direct benefit they may get from that item. I chose to censor myself from loot whoring everything for myself and respect others. It is as simple as that. I'm not telling you that you aren't allowed to roll on anything you want, I'm just pointing out how everyone adopting your mentality is detrimental to a team game. The age old adage holds resoundingly true - there is no *I* in team, but your playstyle sure as hell is making there one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How can you possibly not agree? One players says they need it for x, you say you need it for y. You both roll and he wins. You feel aggrieved now? Why? You rolled and lost. If you do not want to roll greed because your playing the martyr card, fine, that's your choice. But don't dare dictate that anyone or everyone has to share your martyrdom. Obviously if you are going to roll greed all the time, you are going to offer a benefit to the other members. great good on you. I want to be in your group all the time. Get off your high horse - being respectful of others in a group setting isn't remotely martyrdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Now you tell me who's argument better represents which definition Neither, but I'm about one post away from adding you to my ignore list, because of this. You clearly feel that you are somehow morally and ethically superior because of your opinion, and I refuse to get into a debate with someone who claims the moral high ground over an opinion. What I'm doing isn't harming anyone, because I have as much right to the fruit of my labor as does everyone else in the party. Unless of course you believe that the proper and unselfish act, would be for me to expect everyone else to act only for my benefit. No where have I ever said I expect them to act solely on for my benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm not sure any of those actually drop. I know I can make some with synthweaving (jedi knight/smuggler only, pieces, for example) but I don't remember any drops like this. They do, i've seen a few in some groups. Plus the Orange Bracers/Belts that are few and far between are restricted to base classes. Though they don't drop in FPs that I know of, at least the lower level ones. Was farming the mobs that drop the low leveled ones last night on my Marauder, ended up with an orange Inquisitor Belt and IA Bracer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ferroz, Setanian, crica, et. al.: you are the minority (3 to 1 against you), and I'm pretty sure you've only convinced one person in 200+ pages. You keep saying the same things over and over. Please stop. We feel you, brahs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I say it because it is the baseline difference in our opinions. You feel you are entitled to roll on everything that drops in a group setting regardless of others present and the more direct benefit they may get from that item. I chose to censor myself from loot whoring everything for myself and respect others. It is as simple as that. I'm not telling you that you aren't allowed to roll on anything you want, I'm just pointing out how everyone adopting your mentality is detrimental to a team game. The age old adage holds resoundingly true - there is no *I* in team, but your playstyle sure as hell is making there one. Again! This is more supposition, used in some to cast discredit. If you kept up with my posts, I have always advocated deciding at the time of roll whether to need/greed/pass. That in no way takes away from, it is my choice to choose how I roll. What you want is for me, to roll-over and agree that your way is best. It is not. Further, you keep using obscenities to in some cast more discredit. 'loot whoring'.. Now while I don't really care how bad you are at debating, I would ask, that your restrict yourself to facts and not suppositions. And while you're at it, keep it clean. You have absolutely ni justification for using such words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) ferroz, Setanian, crica, et. al.: you are the minority (3 to 1 against you), and I'm pretty sure you've only convinced one person in 200+ pages. You keep saying the same things over and over. Please stop. We feel you, brahs. We are not here to convince anyone. We are here to defend the right to have equal claim to the fruits of our labors in a group and to suggest ways for players who do not agree with us to still be able to play their way while we still play our way and to recuse the false accusations. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispanolfw Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I say it because it is the baseline difference in our opinions. You feel you are entitled to roll on everything that drops in a group setting regardless of others present and the more direct benefit they may get from that item. I chose to censor myself from loot whoring everything for myself and respect others. It is as simple as that. I'm not telling you that you aren't allowed to roll on anything you want, I'm just pointing out how everyone adopting your mentality is detrimental to a team game. The age old adage holds resoundingly true - there is no *I* in team, but your playstyle sure as hell is making there one. It's not his opinion that he is entitled to roll on anything that drops when he helped contribute to the encounter. It's what the system gives us. You aren't wrong to place artificial restrictions beyond that, that's your choice and how you choose to play. But that doesn't give you the right to tell others they are wrong in the way they play, so long as they do it within the confines of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xabana Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Get off your high horse - being respectful of others in a group setting isn't remotely martyrdom. Nope, it isn't. It was just a passive-aggressive dig at you. It also makes him feel better about himself because he can consider himself "more real". It's rationalization of bad, anti-social (i.e., anti-MMO) behavior. I still think you and I are in the majority. Too bad there is such a vocal minority here, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I say it because it is the baseline difference in our opinions. You feel you are entitled to roll on everything that drops in a group setting regardless of others present and the more direct benefit they may get from that item.False. He thinks that they both get the exact same direct benefit: when you win the item, you both get the item that you wanted. I chose to censor myself from loot whoring everything for myself and respect others.No, you clearly don't respect others. You're flinging insults at people who are in favor of fairness instead of stacking the deck. It is as simple as that. I'm not telling you that you aren't allowed to roll on anything you want, I'm just pointing out how everyone adopting your mentality is detrimental to a team game.you're asserting that without backing it up in any way. I say it's the other way around, that perpetuating a system based on removing fairness and selfishness (the one you're advocating) is detrimental to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 We are not here to convince anyone. We are here to defend the accusations of everyone and the right to have equal claim to the fruits of our labors in a group and to suggest ways for players who do not agree with us to still be able to play their way while we still play our way. I'm just saying, it's 3 to 1. You're wrong. Give it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Get off your high horse - being respectful of others in a group setting isn't remotely martyrdom. Ah. but from this side that's what it sounds like. You want to roll pass or greed and have me agree with you and roll the same. Just because you want to pass or greed does not infer I have to. And you have no right to say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I'm just saying, it's 3 to 1. You're wrong. Give it up. Might doesn't equate to right. It just means you have the power others don't have and will use it to get your way. Edited January 30, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xabana Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) It's not his opinion that he is entitled to roll on anything that drops when he helped contribute to the encounter. It's what the system gives us. You aren't wrong to place artificial restrictions beyond that, that's your choice and how you choose to play. But that doesn't give you the right to tell others they are wrong in the way they play, so long as they do it within the confines of the system. You are wordsmithing. The point of this thread is to argue that a common decency should exist in loot rolls that is based upon an actual heirarchy of demand and worth created out of comonsense and decency. Nothing more. Edited January 30, 2012 by Xabana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I say it because it is the baseline difference in our opinions. You feel you are entitled to roll on everything that drops in a group setting regardless of others present and the more direct benefit they may get from that item. I chose to censor myself from loot whoring everything for myself and respect others. It is as simple as that. I'm not telling you that you aren't allowed to roll on anything you want, I'm just pointing out how everyone adopting your mentality is detrimental to a team game. The age old adage holds resoundingly true - there is no *I* in team, but your playstyle sure as hell is making there one. At the end of the day, I place upgrades, cosmetic or otherwise, for my own character and my companions above upgrades for other players. I don't advocate rolling Need on everything, but I fully advocate rolling Need if you want the item for your own purposes. Invariably some are going to abuse this and become legitimately greedy, Needing on things solely to sell them. It isn't my concern; my concern about a given item ceases once it's in someone's inventory, whether mine or someone else's. Many players feel this way. You cooperate to defeat a boss, you roll for yourself. If you're personally fine passing on an item you want so someone for whom it's a greater benefit, that's admirable, and entirely your choice. But it doesn't make those who don't do the same less morally justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Nope, it isn't. It was just a passive-aggressive dig at you. It also makes him feel better about himself because he can consider himself "more real". It's rationalization of bad, anti-social (i.e., anti-MMO) behavior. I still think you and I are in the majority. Too bad there is such a vocal minority here, however. Any facts to back *any* of that up? No, didn't think so. Have you counted the fors and against? No? more baseless information. That stuff may be your *opinion* but that's all it is and sorry to tell you, worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed_Buhallin Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Get off your high horse - being respectful of others in a group setting isn't remotely martyrdom. Telling someone that their way of playing is inferior to yours is not respectful of others. Is it maximally beneficial to the team's ability to progress if someone takes an item for looks instead of stats? No, it's not. But pursuing that maximal benefit is not the only way to respect others in the group. Personally, I do my best to make sure everyone enjoys their time in the game as much as possible. That means that if looks are important to my wife, and stats are important to you, then you get an even chance to get that item and the dice will decide it, and we press on and deal with the content that comes next. That's how you respect other players, not this twisted view of forcing maximal effective stat progression down their throats whether they like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I'm just saying, it's 3 to 1. You're wrong. Give it up. Can you actually provide a counterpoint, and not just make absolutist statements that have no backing? Edited January 30, 2012 by Eldren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts