Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Gavin_Darkl]

***? Where do you get these assertions from in this post and some others I've seen of yours in this thread.

 

Reach much?

 

Wanting some refined mechanics for lfg or the dreaded lfd does not mean the person wants a single player or lobby game. Nor does it somehow equate to the person downplaying guilds. Nor does it make them someone that should not play mmorpgs.

 

Gheesh, careful on that slippery slope of yours. Quite a doozy you got going on there.

 

No the truth is in the pudding so to speak. The people that want a Cross Server LFD tool dont want to be in guilds at all. They do not want to socialize, they choose to play the game the same as a lobby game or a single player game. Its the same thing. MMOs are either a Lobby game or a single player game. Therefore Guilds should be your way of progression.

[Gavin_Darkl]

So I am going to soften my stance a little after talking with fellow guildies about this. Many seem to be in agreement about a LFD tool.

 

Here is what we feel would work very well and why.

 

 

LFD tool will be SERVER ONLY

LFD tool will not group someone to a group where they are on someones ignore list

LFD Will not port you into the instance

LFD tool will have 4 Roles that a person can signup for. Healer, Tank, Ranged and Melee DPS

LFD will pull 1 person for each role and fill that role. So no imbalanced Melee only groups and such.

 

LFD being server only will give you a reputation on your server. This will tie directly into the ignore list, if you are an *** hole, steel loot for your companion without asking first, or cause problems you will be punished for it in the long run. If just about everyone you ever run with add you to their ignore list you will sit in queue forever. Tough **** if you cause that much grief you earned your right to have problems getting a group.

 

LFD being server only will have a long queue times if you are a solo player who tends to never talk and get to know people, or ever join a guild. An MMO is based on community and people making friends. NOT solo players wanting to be anti-Social. If you get into a group with 3 members from a guild, you mesh well, they might want to recruit you This is good for you and good for them. Next time you may not have to wait an hour or 2 in Queue. If you are willing to make friends off people you meet in groups you will not need the LFD tool much but for the odd time 2 or 3 people need an extra person or 2. The guilds that need 1 more often times to do a Hardmode will find that 1 off in the queue, making more Flashpoints happen.

 

You will not need to be ported to the instance. This is so you can go out in the world and explorer it. To off set having to go back to the fleet to run the next instance, I recommend that the fleet pass Cold Down be moved down to 1 hour. Most instances take that long so it will be up about the time you are done.

 

Loop sided groups have not been too much of an issue with SWTOR however I have seen boss fights that all melee groups will have issues and what not. This will help balance out DPS range and Melee classes.

 

 

 

This is a big Omission by me because I was set in stone against the LFD tool because it does make the game too much like Never winter nights lobby game. Join this server do X amount leave, dont talk to the people. Yes I played NWN1+2 and Diablo 1, I play MMOs for the social interaction, which if you can get groups within 10 minutes of clicking the easy button it becomes the same Ginnie pig wheel. Server only also holds you majorly responsible for your own actions, if you are are a detriment to the group or cause too many problems it will affect you.

 

This is the best of all LFD tool options. It means you are still responsible for your actions.

[Racheakt]

No the truth is in the pudding so to speak. The people that want a Cross Server LFD tool dont want to be in guilds at all. They do not want to socialize, they choose to play the game the same as a lobby game or a single player game. Its the same thing. MMOs are either a Lobby game or a single player game. Therefore Guilds should be your way of progression.

 

Realy? thin instancing is so heavy in this game it is just this side of being GW1. Can't blame people for treating like a soloers KOTOR 3 with multiplayer elements.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Realy? thin instancing is so heavy in this game it is just this side of being GW1. Can't blame people for treating like a soloers KOTOR 3 with multiplayer elements.

 

I can. Its not a Mutliplayer Lobby game. If it was it would be a different story. Its an MMO, yea not a sandbox MMO but an MMO none the less.

[Racheakt]

I can. Its not a Mutliplayer Lobby game. If it was it would be a different story. Its an MMO, yea not a sandbox MMO but an MMO none the less.

 

I can't. This game is closer to a lobby based multiplayer game than it is an MMO, what the hell is that departure area used for? What is the PvP Queue?

[Gavin_Darkl]

http://tor-talk.com/the-dungeon-finder-debate/

 

http://tornetwork.net/tag/dungeon-finder/

 

http://www.machiavelliscat.com/lioreblog/2011/12/28/the-cast-against-lf/

 

Many believe that a Cross server LFD tool is bad, even devs from BW.

[Gavin_Darkl]

I can't. This game is closer to a lobby based multiplayer game than it is an MMO, what the hell is that departure area used for? What is the PvP Queue?

 

You can not use the PVP queue as a logical argument because it does takes into account Numbers on both sides. A PVE Queue does not.

[Sendrel]

Often Times players dig themselves a hole without having to TADDLE. When I was in WoW I had GMs of guilds that came to me about players that stole loot in raids or cause drama. The My guild booted these people, we all put them on the ignore list, and so did other guilds that shared this information. Often times the players make themselves look bad on their own in Trade chat and more people Ignore them. If the LFD tool was server only and took into account the ignore list these people would have true problems getting into groups.

 

So the entirety of your argument is anecdote. Gotcha.

 

Here's the thing, for every single instance that you can come up with where servers policing themselves was a complete success, I can come up with twenty where the offending party suffered absolutely no consequences whatsoever for their 'bad behavior'.

 

The only tool that is actually proven to help in keeping you from grouping with people you don't like is the /ignore function. Anything other than that is largely an exercise in myth building.

[GarbonzotheDude]

This is the best of all LFD tool options. It means you are still responsible for your actions.

 

That pretty much is the same type of mechanic that I have recommended in the past here. I think it would be perfect myself.

 

Still don't agree with your mindset on those other matters

 

But yes...that is the exact type of tool I think players could find very helpful yet shouldn't be a problem for those that aren't fans of these mechanics or don't need one.

[Sendrel]

No the truth is in the pudding so to speak. The people that want a Cross Server LFD tool dont want to be in guilds at all.

 

Where do you come up with this crap? I'm sure you've have a ton more people willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in a discussion like this if you actually tried to substantiate anything you said with something other than 'because I said so'.

[MrDeas]

I don't think a full on WoW Style dungeon finder is necessary. It would be awesome to have a global LFG channel implemented though.

 

You could always create one on your server...I'm sure lots of people would join just for its usefulness

[Gavin_Darkl]

So the entirety of your argument is anecdote. Gotcha.

 

Here's the thing, for every single instance that you can come up with where servers policing themselves was a complete success, I can come up with twenty where the offending party suffered absolutely no consequences whatsoever for their 'bad behavior'.

 

The only tool that is actually proven to help in keeping you from grouping with people you don't like is the /ignore function. Anything other than that is largely an exercise in myth building.

 

Yea and the /ignore function means Dick if the LFD tool is cross server. If its server only there is already a Limited amount of people to play with, if you are limited even more because you are an ****** then it its affective.

[Racheakt]

http://tor-talk.com/the-dungeon-finder-debate/

 

http://tornetwork.net/tag/dungeon-finder/

 

http://www.machiavelliscat.com/lioreblog/2011/12/28/the-cast-against-lf/

 

Many believe that a Cross server LFD tool is bad, even devs from BW.

 

Time will tell if they are correct. They do have competition on horizon.

 

On the other stuff, I still think this game is too heavy on the instancing to be a true community based MMO. Do I think that a community cannot form? no. Will it ever be a true server wide one? No. I see small guild communities using a LFD to fill gaps in short order.

 

We can agree to disagree, I think an LFD is needed to keep the sub up to pay for the game. It is not like a LFD does away with forming a guild of of like minded players on your server, nor using the general chat in fleet to LFG.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Racheakt

[Gavin_Darkl]

Where do you come up with this crap? I'm sure you've have a ton more people willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in a discussion like this if you actually tried to substantiate anything you said with something other than 'because I said so'.

 

It's been posted Countless times (as many times as this discussion has reset) They want a X Server LFD tool cause they do not want a guild. They want to play like its a lobby game. This discussion has been going on for months and I been involved with it that that long. Watch it long enough you will see the messages pop up stated just that.

[Gavin_Darkl]

small guild communities using a LFD to fill gaps in short order.

 

We can agree to disagree, I think an LFD is need to keep the sub up to pay for the game. It is not like a LFD does away with forming a guild of of like minded players on your server, nor using the general chat in fleet to LFG.

 

Yes a Server only LFD tool will help Small guilds fill gaps. However a Cross Server LFD tool makes guilds obsolete. Just look at WoW, guilds are not raiding even as much now with a LFR tool. Most people just queue for a raid now. Fewer and fewer guilds bothering to raid together.

 

LFD tool should be server only.

[Ethern]

Yes a Server only LFD tool will help Small guilds fill gaps. However a Cross Server LFD tool makes guilds obsolete. Just look at WoW, guilds are not raiding even as much now with a LFR tool. Most people just queue for a raid now. Fewer and fewer guilds bothering to raid together.

 

LFD tool should be server only.

1/ It does not make the guild obsolete. Do you know why guilds exist in the first place? If you think it's only to clear the PvE group content, then you the guild addict, don't know what you are preaching for.

 

2/ How this is a bad thing if we can rely less on guilds to clear some content?

- what if I'm guidless?

- what if I'm in a guild and want to play with other people?

- what if my guild/friend list is offline and I want to do group content now?

 

MMORPG= Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

This is not a

MGORPG. Massively Guilds online Role Playing Game.

 

So Guilds are not mandatory to play a MMO, nor imposing socializing necessary to do a mere flashpoint. Deal with it.

[Sendrel]

Yea and the /ignore function means Dick if the LFD tool is cross server. If its server only there is already a Limited amount of people to play with, if you are limited even more because you are an ****** then it its affective.

 

Going to repeat myself because it seems you're intent on being obtuse. The ignore function is the only method to ensure you don't group with people you don't like. That applies to both single and cross server LFD tools. Server blacklists and servers policing themselves are largely myth and entirely anecdotal.

 

You want so desperately to think that your opinion isn't irrelevant in the grand scheme of things on your server. No one cares that you think Bob the GS is a ninja. Just ignore him and move on.

[Racheakt]

Yes a Server only LFD tool will help Small guilds fill gaps. However a Cross Server LFD tool makes guilds obsolete. Just look at WoW, guilds are not raiding even as much now with a LFR tool. Most people just queue for a raid now. Fewer and fewer guilds bothering to raid together.

 

LFD tool should be server only.

 

I disagree, guilds are social groups, not workgroups. It may just be me but I hate mega-guilds with 100s of players and prefer the smaller friend level guild.

 

But a same server LFD is a start, and will eventualy give way to a cross server one; esp since in a recent interview they alluded to doing cross server for PvP.

 

I played wow up to LK, i used a guild to raid but Solo queued heroics as a tank for gold and tokens. My friends who left SWTOR went back to WoW and tell me that the LFR tool rocks. Me? I am tired of WoW and want something diffrent. TOR is filling a gap until something else comes along.

[Sendrel]

It's been posted Countless times (as many times as this discussion has reset) They want a X Server LFD tool cause they do not want a guild. They want to play like its a lobby game. This discussion has been going on for months and I been involved with it that that long. Watch it long enough you will see the messages pop up stated just that.

 

I'm pretty sure I've not actually seen anyone post (in this thread, any of its predecessors or any of the dozens of other LFD threads) stating specifically that they dont' want a guild. I've seen it said that guilds don't work to solve the problem of grouping consistently or that they dont' want to be forced to join a guild that may or may not suit their playstyle. But I've never seen anyone say flat out 'I want a cross server LFD because I don't want to join a guild' that I can recall.

[Ethern]

I'm pretty sure I've not actually seen anyone post (in this thread, any of its predecessors or any of the dozens of other LFD threads) stating specifically that they dont' want a guild. I've seen it said that guilds don't work to solve the problem of grouping consistently or that they dont' want to be forced to join a guild that may or may not suit their playstyle. But I've never seen anyone say flat out 'I want a cross server LFD because I don't want to join a guild' that I can recall.

Indeed. And there are players who are in guilds and also recognize the need for a LFG tool. This guild consideration has zero place in a LFG discussion, in all honestly and logic.

[XxPetexX]

I am actually about to unsub due to this very issue. I like the game fine but since hitting 50 almost 2 weeks ago I have done ONE HM FP and one normal.

 

And spent several evenings just standing in fleet spamming for a healer or a tank only to log off and having wasted the entire evening.

 

All I'm doing atm is leveling alts and I can't justify a subscription fee for that.

 

I will return to this game when a decent LFD tool is implemented because the game itself is fun, I just very rarely get to play it

[MalignX]

Awww. It's starting to devolve again.

 

1) Want LFG tool. Do not want to spam LFG in one area for hours. Sorry.

2) Guilds should be optional, not necessary. Period.

3) Server rep and community is a myth, it doesn't exist. If rep means so much to you, it's just you.

 

The pro-LFG see it as a tool for which they can queue for Flashpoints the exact same way you queue for Warzones. They want to be able to go about their lives without being stuck in stasis for wanting to run a Flashpoint. It's a tool, it's not some game breaking mechanic.

 

The anti-LFG seem to see it as some doomsday device that will ruin the game for them and there for no one should get it at all. The arguments for killing guilds, communities, and the like seem overly inflated at best. I tried to listen to them, but I just can't anymore.

 

You want community and reputation, then you should join a Guild and worry about those things in that context. Please leave the rest of us alone.

Edited January 29, 2012 by MalignX

[Ethern]

Awww. It's starting to devolve again.

 

1) Want LFG tool. Do not want to spam LFG in one area for hours. Sorry.

2) Guilds should be optional, not necessary. Period.

3) Server rep and community is a myth, it doesn't exist. If rep means so much to you, it's just you.

 

The pro-LFG see it as a tool for which they can queue for Flashpoints the exact same way you queue for Warzones. They want to be able to go about their lives without being stuck in stasis for wanting to run a Flashpoint. It's a tool, it's not some game breaking mechanic.

 

The anti-LFG seem to see it as some doomsday device that will ruin the game for them and there for no one should get it at all. The arguments for killing guilds, communities, and the like seem overly inflated at best. I tried to listen to them, but I just can't anymore.

 

You want community and reputation, then you should join a Guild and worry about those things in that context. Please leave the rest of us alone.

Good post. Alas, will be drowned in the sea of deprived of good arguments posts.

[MalignX]

Good post. Alas, will be drowned in the sea of deprived of good arguments posts.

 

I've watched this thread go well passed 200+ pages and it seems to go in waves. You'll get a lot of healthy discussion, and someone will pop in and rant against it without even bothering to read the Dev's first post. Then it devolves back into this rabble like the last couple of pages.

Edited January 29, 2012 by MalignX

[Sendrel]

I've watched this thread go well passed 200+ pages and it seems to go in waves.

 

Its funny though how you can thoroughly beat a subtopic to death (e.g. server blacklists/servers policing themselves) - I mean like 20+pages worth of back and forth, only to have some knucklehead pop in and spout off about server blacklists as if we hadn't even thought about that aspect.

 

'Seriously though man! They'll never learn their lesson if I'm not there to teach it to them via blacklisting!!!'

 

And by funny, I mean sad and a little frustrating.