Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[stormravn]

i hope the devs are readin this

[BlueSkittles]

i hope the devs are readin this

 

Funny that you mention this. I think I found out why so much silence.

 

"Lessons 2 and 3 covered communication with the fanbase (“Everything you say can – and will be – used against you”). Lusinchi pointed out that the reactions of MMO fans are particularly strong and developers should be prepared for dealing with irrationality. According to his “peer validation theory” player achievements in an MMO feel more real because other humans witness them. As a result players can become extremely invested and view any threat to their game as an existential threat to their real selves, causing them to react with passion and aggression.

 

Consequently Lusinchi recommended to “wait until it’s done, tested and proven” before announcing any changes to the game and only talk about them when one is “absolutely certain how the feature is going to work”. If there is any room for ambiguity, players might end up feeling disappointed when it doesn’t meet what they had imagined.

 

His fourth lesson dealt with the “light side” of social gameplay, gently nudging strangers towards social interactions. Lusinchi observed that many people play MMOs because there are lots of player, but don’t actually talk to them that often. He drew comparisons to real world behavior: “We crave social interactions and go to places where they might happen, but we were also told ‘Don’t talk to strangers’”.

 

He recommended that “If you’re single, you should get a dog.” as one of the best ways to meet other people in real life. With the dog acting as the icebreaker, it becomes more socially acceptable to strike up a conversation. The Star Wars: The Old Republic equivalent is the different “buff” spells that all character classes can cast on themselves, but also on other players. They often result in a return buff or a “thank you”, breaking the ice and potentially leading to conversations and playing together. Other mechanics to encourage social gameplay are social points and 1-click options to easily add other players to a friends list."

 

"How shame and anger aided the development of Star Wars: The Old Republic"

http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/27/how-shame-and-anger-aided-the-development-of-star-wars-the-old-republic/

[Meldwyn]

/signed

 

I didn't think so at first, but trying to find groups for fp's and other planet heroics is painful. To say that we have a Looking for Group tool and people just need to use it, is silly. I can tag myself for hours and get not even one invite or whisper. A tool that no one uses, is a useless tool.

[MalignX]

/signed

 

I didn't think so at first, but trying to find groups for fp's and other planet heroics is painful. To say that we have a Looking for Group tool and people just need to use it, is silly. I can tag myself for hours and get not even one invite or whisper. A tool that no one uses, is a useless tool.

 

Welcome, brother. I'd tell you we have hot soup, but it'd be a lie.

[Manathayria]

Funny that you mention this. I think I found out why so much silence.

 

"Lessons 2 and 3 covered communication with the fanbase (“Everything you say can – and will be – used against you”). Lusinchi pointed out that the reactions of MMO fans are particularly strong and developers should be prepared for dealing with irrationality. According to his “peer validation theory” player achievements in an MMO feel more real because other humans witness them. As a result players can become extremely invested and view any threat to their game as an existential threat to their real selves, causing them to react with passion and aggression.

Which explains why people who are anit-lfd refuse to hit a compromise - which, hopefully they don't need a TL;DR for my last post. I do hope some of the hard-line nos that keep saying we don't look into compromise realize someone that is - technically - more on their side of the fence than x-server is pushing a compromise that could work (in theory).

 

Consequently Lusinchi recommended to “wait until it’s done, tested and proven” before announcing any changes to the game and only talk about them when one is “absolutely certain how the feature is going to work”. If there is any room for ambiguity, players might end up feeling disappointed when it doesn’t meet what they had imagined.

Unfortunately this doesn't take into account the fact we glare at it and consider some communication - even just 'we're looking into it' off and on on a thread is needed, and that not having it on any thread is often considered 'bad customer service'.

 

His fourth lesson dealt with the “light side” of social gameplay, gently nudging strangers towards social interactions. Lusinchi observed that many people play MMOs because there are lots of player, but don’t actually talk to them that often. He drew comparisons to real world behavior: “We crave social interactions and go to places where they might happen, but we were also told ‘Don’t talk to strangers’”.

 

He recommended that “If you’re single, you should get a dog.” as one of the best ways to meet other people in real life. With the dog acting as the icebreaker, it becomes more socially acceptable to strike up a conversation. The Star Wars: The Old Republic equivalent is the different “buff” spells that all character classes can cast on themselves, but also on other players. They often result in a return buff or a “thank you”, breaking the ice and potentially leading to conversations and playing together. Other mechanics to encourage social gameplay are social points and 1-click options to easily add other players to a friends list."

 

"How shame and anger aided the development of Star Wars: The Old Republic"

http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/27/how-shame-and-anger-aided-the-development-of-star-wars-the-old-republic/

Interesting concept with the social interaction and buffs as ice breakers. It does, in fact, sometimes (very rarely) work.

 

This would explain a bit on why we're not seeing devs saying anything about the ideas thrown out here - especially the ones that cross into 'unknown' territory like the combined x-server ones.

 

While some of us understand that 'we may revisit it' means exactly that - some day, somwhere we might think about this, but don't expect it as it's not in their plans. Others may take it as 'one day we WILL get this in the system, because they're going to cave if we yell loud enough!' even if really, they do somehow manage come up with a better system that excludes x-server.

 

As a kinda side note... I keep putting off on answering the email asking why I left/exit survey they sent me. Due to the mixed reasons on why I left and the fact I still hope they'll put in the LFD system before my time runs out so I can see the results... I'm not sure what to write and don't want to tilt them more tword a system that's pure x-server, but I don't want to cement in their idea that everyone only wants server only without ever having the option of cross server either.

[Neiloch]

2. LFD destroys community:

 

a. LFD allows players to play the content they are paying for. Community is not LFG/LFD for 3 hours with no response for you. It's also not running all dungeons only within guild.

 

1)Not everyone has 24/7 availability

If you work a full-time you only really have between 3-4 hours of playtime a night before you are significantly affecting other areas of your life. Weekends are a different story, sometimes you get to play a lot and sometimes you have less time then weekdays, but let’s say you squeeze in 10 hours total across the weekend. I’m being very generous with the above allotted times, if you have any outside obligations, hobbies, studies, other games of interest or a family, those times allotted are going to skyrocket down. That equals 25 hours of playtime roughly week for a medium to borderline hard core gamer, where I personally think most people are between 11-16 hours. Some people think spending an hour to form a group of “friends” online is acceptable gameplay, while I won’t say that they are wrong but I’m going to say a lot of others disagree strongly.

 

6)The Z in “X,Y, and Z” is for laZy

One concern is that queue based systems will make people lazy and lethargically spend their time throughout the game world. We’re living in the country that works one of the most hours per person in the world and has severe time poverty and you’re confused why people are trying to take shortcuts? You’d have to be insane or unemployed not to take every time related advantage that doesn’t spoil your own experience in a game that soaks them up like nothing. Being lazy has no discrimination for which it strikes, whether it’s elites afking in bg’s for High War Lord titles or Johnny McNoob /afking in the raid finder

 

 

Your argument has been repeatedly proven wrong before you even made your post.

 

It is going to be very interesting what BW does after its next billing cycle. I suggest they send out an e-mail announcing any LFG improvements since I doubt the many people who would care about such things are still logging in regularly/subscribed to see patch notes.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Meluna

[Manathayria]

They're putting in a LFG tool.

 

What they're not putting in (at the moment) is x-server LFD. I suggest you read the front page at the least to determine what's being discussed.

 

Getting tired of people saying that anyone that advocates the LFG tool being changed/revamped into something other than /spam general' or into x-server are bums and socially inept.

 

1. 
    
   
2. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks
    
   
3. Please stay on topic.
    
   
4. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner.
    
   

 

Thank you!

Edited February 1, 2012 by Meluna

[Neiloch]

This thread(s) lead me to believe the majority of anti-LFD people have such a stance because with such tools other people don't have to put up with their undesirable attitude to progress in the video game. Kind of like how healers/tanks get a bit more 'slack' because groups can't function without them.

 

"Okay this is how we are doing this because I am the leader and I said so!"

"no thanks Mr.holier than thou *disband*"

"WTH LFD sucks people just drop whenever! /oblivious"

 

If people TRULY wanted to be your friend or be in your guild, the addition of LFD tools would do nothing to hinder that. They were your "friend" or guildee up until LFD because that was the best option available to them, not because they liked you.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

Blue, you should keep a compilation of your little finds, even though they aren't smoking guns they are fascincating reads from which I doubt very few people will read

[BlueSkittles]

Blue, you should keep a compilation of your little finds, even though they aren't smoking guns they are fascincating reads from which I doubt very few people will read

 

Thanks. Yeah I really need to. I'll make that my new little project. So when this thread resets again I'll have a nice list to add for the haters to ignore/bash.

[RachelAnne]

Which explains why people who are anit-lfd refuse to hit a compromise - which, hopefully they don't need a TL;DR for my last post. I do hope some of the hard-line nos that keep saying we don't look into compromise realize someone that is - technically - more on their side of the fence than x-server is pushing a compromise that could work (in theory).

 

Not the against people cant compromise, its the pro people.

 

I spend a lot of time here at this forum, explaining ways how to use the current LFG, how a LFG of the future could look like etc.

 

The response is either

 

1. NO, you are wrong (of people that didnt even read the post)

2. WE WANT WOW LFG; ITS BEST AND WORK ****...

 

So seriously tell me please, who is unable to compromise, its your kind!

 

Read this thread, look at the response I got - its always very childish unable to even understand the post´s which I made. It is impossible to talk about these things with your kind, you have 1 opinion and only see this one as valid. You dont accept other peoples opinions and you demand wow LFG.

Edited February 1, 2012 by RachelAnne

[Neiloch]

using the current system is in no shape or form a compromise, it is a complete forfeiture on the side of people who want a better LFG system.

 

anything more than the current system and less than a full blown WoW x-server DF is a compromise. At that point it simply becomes a tug of war. what differs is the argument behind them.

 

Anti-LFD : I have personally don't like it and here are some bad experiences I have had. Also here are some completely hypothetical scenarios in favor of my argument.

 

Pro-LFD : IN ADDITION to my positive personal experience, ever since its inception it has only grown in popularity to the point where it has become THE way to get groups not only in WoW but in other MMO's that feature it as well.

 

Quite bluntly, anti-LFD has an argument of one person per person that is against it. Pro-LFD has literally thousands if not millions of supporters, considering all MMO's their players that willingly use it, before the debate even begins. The closest the opposition could do to claim mass support against LFD is some sort of special interest group that specifically says it is against LFD.

 

Anti-LFD is the minority.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Neiloch

[RachelAnne]

This thread(s) lead me to believe the majority of anti-LFD people have such a stance because with such tools other people don't have to put up with their undesirable attitude to progress in the video game. Kind of like how healers/tanks get a bit more 'slack' because groups can't function without them.

 

"Okay this is how we are doing this because I am the leader and I said so!"

"no thanks Mr.holier than thou *disband*"

"WTH LFD sucks people just drop whenever! /oblivious"

 

If people TRULY wanted to be your friend or be in your guild, the addition of LFD tools would do nothing to hinder that. They were your "friend" or guildee up until LFD because that was the best option available to them, not because they liked you.

 

If you can use the current tool, where you talk to people, you wont end up in such groups like you have just described. If someone wants a rush, then you wont join him anyways - so he cant terrorise you at all.

 

 

The thing is, if you get into a group with strangers then they will blackmail you at every given time. Look how it does happen at wow all day in and out.

 

What you dont want to skip bosses? *kick*

What you dont want me to roll for my offspec *kick*

What you dont want to pass for my friend *kick*

What you dont pull 20k dps *kick*.

 

Reading this forum is fun and sad at the same time. It seems like people got somekind of amnesia, as they dont remember how bad the lfg at wow always was. But honestly I think the most of them didnt even play wow or are exactly those rude people who want to use the lfg tool to terrorise others - as they cant do this now, as nobody will join their groups then.

[Ethern]

Another quality post by Manathayria

Agreed. He expanded and added more depth to my two options proposal. We need more posts of that quality, and less threats or opinions disguised as facts.

[BlueSkittles]

If you can use the current tool, where you talk to people, you wont end up in such groups like you have just described. If someone wants a rush, then you wont join him anyways - so he cant terrorise you at all.

 

 

The thing is, if you get into a group with strangers then they will blackmail you at every given time. Look how it does happen at wow all day in and out.

 

What you dont want to skip bosses? *kick*

What you dont want me to roll for my offspec *kick*

What you dont want to pass for my friend *kick*

What you dont pull 20k dps *kick*.

 

Reading this forum is fun and sad at the same time. It seems like people got somekind of amnesia, as they dont remember how bad the lfg at wow always was. But honestly I think the most of them didnt even play wow or are exactly those rude people who want to use the lfg tool to terrorise others - as they cant do this now, as nobody will join their groups then.

 

"Lessons 2 and 3 covered communication with the fanbase (“Everything you say can – and will be – used against you”). Lusinchi pointed out that the reactions of MMO fans are particularly strong and developers should be prepared for dealing with irrationality. According to his “peer validation theory” player achievements in an MMO feel more real because other humans witness them. As a result players can become extremely invested and view any threat to their game as an existential threat to their real selves, causing them to react with passion and aggression.

 

"How shame and anger aided the development of Star Wars: The Old Republic"

http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/27/how-shame-and-anger-aided-the-development-of-star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Doubting whether we played WoW or not.

[Touchbass]

Not the against people cant compromise, its the pro people.

 

I spend a lot of time here at this forum, explaining ways how to use the current LFG, how a LFG of the future could look like etc.

 

The response is either

 

1. NO, you are wrong (of people that didnt even read the post)

2. WE WANT WOW LFG; ITS BEST AND WORK ****...

 

So seriously tell me please, who is unable to compromise, its your kind!

 

Read this thread, look at the response I got - its always very childish unable to even understand the post´s which I made. It is impossible to talk about these things with your kind, you have 1 opinion and only see this one as valid. You dont accept other peoples opinions and you demand wow LFG.

 

The problem is you blatantly lie and distort the truth, it makes it very difficult to have a conversation when someone is doing that. When you tell a version of the events that don't concide with the reality of the situation you won't recieve a favourable response. You then have the audacity to be shocked when people call you out on it as if your farts don't stink.

There are enough people anti-LFD on these threads that aren't treated with the contempt you speak of.

 

I'm willing to move forward but the issue at hand is that the only viable solutions for certain servers is a X-LFD and mergers, no amount of tinkering can fix them besides mergers and X-LFD. The only issue with mergers is combining the different types of servers together and especially this early, isn't a very real solution.

 

That is why we are trying to get a global X-LFD with an internal server option. This really should be the goal of this thread from now on.

[Neiloch]

If you can use the current tool, where you talk to people, you wont end up in such groups like you have just described. If someone wants a rush, then you wont join him anyways - so he cant terrorise you at all.

If I use the current tools I am lucky to get in a group AT ALL no matter how accommodating or submissive I am.

 

The thing is, if you get into a group with strangers then they will blackmail you at every given time. Are you insane? 100% rate of blackmail? There only need to be ONE instance anywhere to anybody where they weren't blackmailed to destroy your argument. And i have not been blackmailed many times.

Look how it does happen at wow all day in and out.

 

What you dont want to skip bosses? *kick*

What you dont want me to roll for my offspec *kick*

What you dont want to pass for my friend *kick*

What you dont pull 20k dps *kick*.

 

Reading this forum is fun and sad at the same time. It seems like people got somekind of amnesia, as they dont remember how bad the lfg at wow always was. But honestly I think the most of them didnt even play wow or are exactly those rude people who want to use the lfg tool to terrorise others - as they cant do this now, as nobody will join their groups then.

 

The argument isn't - "oh I get bad groups now and LFd will provide better ones."

It's - "I get nearly ZERO groups now and LFD will provide a chance in hell at getting ANY."

[Ethern]

If you can use the current tool, where you talk to people, you wont end up in such groups like you have just described.

With all respect due, that makes absolutely no sense.

The LFG tool just automates a process which is already in use, aka spamming the channels. The chances to fall on strangers with such attitudes are as high in both methods, provided that we are talking about a non- cross server LFG tool.

The so called bad effects - except the loss of accountability- are all made up and based on false impressions.

Such neutral tool cannot be a pandora box. That's misleading and wrong.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Ethern

[Touchbass]

The thing is, if you get into a group with strangers then they will blackmail you at every given time. Look how it does happen at wow all day in and out.

 

I want you to think really hard on that statement and look around at your peers, they're shaking that head and looking down at you. You honestly believe that people blackmail each other all the time in WoW. First off, if this was true why the hell did you use it all the time? You must have a huge sample of personal runs to know this kind of information off hand, makes me wonder why you were using it soooo many times? Actually I have to stop myself here before I get snarky ...

Edited February 1, 2012 by Touchbass

[RachelAnne]

Agreed. He expanded and added more depth to my two options proposal. We need more posts of that quality, and less threats or opinions disguised as facts.

 

I dont think that post´s who aim at provoking the other side, so that they might freak out and get banned is a sign of high quality.

 

It might be smart as in that way you can get rid of the valid arguments of the opposing side, but its still very low and equal to what you pro guys do all the time, closing your eyes and ears from fact´s so that you dont need to argue with the other side at all.

[Touchbass]

 

What you dont want me to roll for my offspec *kick*

 

.

 

Found it! When you ask someone if you can roll on your offspec and they say no, no means no bro.

[Ethern]

I dont think that post´s who aim at provoking the other side, so that they might freak out and get banned is a sign of high quality.

 

It might be smart as in that way you can get rid of the valid arguments of the opposing side, but its still very low and equal to what you pro guys do all the time, closing your eyes and ears from fact´s so that you dont need to argue with the other side at all.

I'm sorry but I can't label any doomsaying argument, raising a mere tool as a pandora box, as valid.

 

Rephrase your aguments, explaining how the LFG tool' implementation, even in its server wide only iteration will have detrimental effects on the game, and then we'll be able to judge of their validity.

[Touchbass]

The argument isn't - "oh I get bad groups now and LFd will provide better ones."

It's - "I get nearly ZERO groups now and LFD will provide a chance in hell at getting ANY."

 

It's kinda like joining the army, I know what I am getting myself into when I sign up for the X-LFD. No one would join the army if the death rate was 100% or even close to a risk that wasn't reasonable for the cause you're fighting. Similarly we all know the X-LFD can cause problems, we aren't children who have to be spoonfed reality. However we can make the conscious choice which is a better investment of our time, group with strangers quickly and dealing with a potential array of problems or hope other players are around that need the same content I do and willing to do it.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Touchbass

[RachelAnne]

The problem is you blatantly lie and distort the truth, it makes it very difficult to have a conversation when someone is doing that. When you tell a version of the events that don't concide with the reality of the situation you won't recieve a favourable response. You then have the audacity to be shocked when people call you out on it as if your farts don't stink.

There are enough people anti-LFD on these threads that aren't treated with the contempt you speak of.

 

I'm willing to move forward but the issue at hand is that the only viable solutions for certain servers is a X-LFD and mergers, no amount of tinkering can fix them besides mergers and X-LFD. The only issue with mergers is combining the different types of servers together and especially this early, isn't a very real solution.

 

That is why we are trying to get a global X-LFD with an internal server option. This really should be the goal of this thread from now on.

 

I dont lie at all, I state fact´s. If you dont believe me, open your eyes - type "wow.forum" at google and read the posts there.

Many people have the problems of the LFD which I have been trying to show you, more than once.

You dont want to see them, because you are totally excited about somekind of tool, which you most likely didnt use that much at all, to understand its consequences.

 

I can only repeat myself here,

 

to improve the tool we have now is the way to go. To copy the wow tool isnt, as its having too many flawed features.

 

 

People should be able to choose with whom they want to play, which dungeon and how. I have no idea why you people dont want to compromise there and still demand the wow tool.

 

In the end such an improved tool would also give you your groups, but if it does then the chance of a fail group will be minimized and it will be a group of like minded players.

 

Just imagine that you come home, log in "tick the different boxes" and then get a group. It would be so much more fun than the wow tool, where you end up so often with people who are not like you and terrorise you by blackmailing you with the kick button if you dont do as they want.

 

Another option is, that such tools should be added at specific servers only - for instance at pvp and pve but not at RP. In that way you can have your wow tool but others that know how bad it is, can play at RP Servers.

 

 

But no, you ignore all these things...

[Touchbass]

I'm sorry but I can't label any doomsaying argument, raising a mere tool as a pandora box, as valid.

 

Rephrase your aguments, explaining how the LFG tool' implementation, even in its server wide only iteration will have detrimental effects on the game, and then we'll be able to judge of their validity.

 

I've been asking the same questions for weeks and have tried to throw the gauntlet down.

Honestly If I get a real response void of conjecture, rhetoric or anecdotal evidence that can demonstrate that a X-LFD destroys communities I'd abandon my ideas in a heart beat. All I hear is the typical 'the proof is the pudding response", only thing is it's just customized differently.

 

Why would Blizzard expand it's functions to raids and other games start adopting it if it was such a bad tool that destroyed the communities?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Touchbass