PvP - How it is ...deal with it

[Roak]

Again to reiterate to all of you people claiming to do away with Expertise.

 

"You can't remove Expertise because then you'll just get PvE gear. Additionally, if you remove Expertise, the OTHER STATS on the battlemasters gear will still destroy "new level 50s" Anybody suggesting removing Expertise specifically just needs to delete their forum account."

 

You don't get it, because you are new at this and that's fine. As you are new at this and have NO IDEA what you are talking about, nobody at BW is going to take you seriously anyway so not like it matters.

 

Expertise is just a separator for PvP and PvE. It's to make it so the "best gear for PvP" isn't PvE gear, and that PvP players can just PvP. Expertise is just another stat among MANY on Battlesmasters gear that is contributing to your destructing in the Warzone. If you took out Expertise, then the difference in EVERY OTHER STAT would still destroy and the result is the same.

 

Take out Expertise, people go get the best Rakata gear, and STOP YOUR FACE IN PVP, and the same thing happens.

 

It's not the expertise, it's the fact that GEAR exists in PvP. What you want to be saying is "REMOVE GEAR FROM PVP" not "REMOVE EXPERTISE". Everybody stating "REMOVE EXPERTISE" just sounds ridiculous and proves you don't have an understanding of the game and WON'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

 

Someone doesn't get it, that someone is you.

 

Expertise (or equivalent pvp stat in other games) is only there to make pvp progression into a gear grind, and therefore no extra thought has to be put into a more engaging method of progression. no other reason.

[Pwny_Express]

See above response as you are wrong =).

 

No, I'm right, but cool story anyway brah.

[alanisUDL]

Take a course is psychology or common sense then come back

 

B.S. in Psychology, Masters in Social Work, Licensed Clinical Social Worker. I've forgotten more about psychology that you probably know. I also cut out the wall of text because it is just too much to respond to but I'll make a few points...

 

-You discuss the purpose is to progress your character, which is true. But character progression doesn't have to be gear based, and certainly doesn't have to be super exceptionally gear based. Go ahead and give the uber-nerd a reason to play 200 hours and have "better" gear-- but you don't have to go and make it *game breaking*.

 

-You say that "eventually people will get there". This makes a lot of assumptions, and there are lots of people that won't get there. Who? The people that come across a mirror class, play better than them, but get stomped because of gear. If gear progression was less severe, this wouldn't be an issue and that newer toon would have *a chance*. Right now, they do not. There are a lot of people that will either go back to playing a previous game or move onto a new game because IT IS NOT FUN. As I said previously, you should not have to continue to run up the mountain just to be *competitive*.

 

-Additionally, I don't think many people would be shocked when the Dev's "move the goalposts" in a few months. New ranks and gear will probably come out. If not, you might then begin to see the "battlemaster vets" start to complain about "nothing new", especially when more people begin to have similar gear and they can't uber-2shot people.

[Atamosk]

See the incentive is the medals.

The early game PvP while aquiring gear is a hit and run style play simlar to league of legends.

If your warrior melee range type player .....u leap in throw a couple slaps ....to your cc stuff and run the hell away. Your supposed to contribute to your team in a warzone not be the player that is able to kill everyoen toe to toe ......as you aquire more gear your able to sit in the combat for a longer duration and pull off more abilities and get some kills before ya have to pull out of combat.

Ranged players are favored here cause they can rack up points and not have to run away as much as melee.

 

Yes your going to get 3 shot from time to time. Eventually your gonna 3 shot ppl form time to time yourself.

 

If all your doing is running in and getting killed over and over and over ......stop running in to much ....its pvp! you have to pick and choose your moments to be combatant. You cant just run in go toe to toe with someone totally geared.

 

The games incentive for early players is to pick your poitns of attack and get the extra medals for valor to gear up faster.

I've got a gear sith warrior that had to pick and choose his moments and now that he is geared i can fight toe to toe.

I have a total no gear bountyhunter where i'm still playing the hit and run style while i aquire gear.

 

There is definatly some class balancing issues and probably always will be but thats not the topic i started this thread with.

 

Exepertise is the stat rewarded for time put in and allows you to pull away from the hit and run style of play.

 

My fully geared sith warrior loves feeding off you undergeared guys that want to go toe to toe, on the other side I hate them little bastards that pick me off from range or use there CC to slow me down so there team can take me out.

 

guess point of the story is .....if yoru getting 3 shot cause ya keep running in and dying ...learn to play better all the gear in the world isnt gonna help ya get any better just gonna make ya get 6 shot like an idiot in the middle of the ring.

 

totally agree with you about not being a total noob and learning from mistakes.

 

I find that the more mistakes i make the more i learn about classes and their abilities. Like sorcs

 

im a guardian. I make it my job to make their lives a living hell in pvp. sometimes i think they have it so easy with their lighting spams, but instead of complaining about it I just try my hardest to kill them as much as possible

 

its my goal. and it works sometimes. If i can take out of play one sorc who would be molestering my healer then my job is done, screw medals screw all that.

 

 

on another note. They should just get rid of gear stats in pvp and just balance everyone and make it a vanity thing. When you go into pvp you should revert to some crappy gear and as you lvl up valor it changes your gear to make you look better and better. And doing things like getting points will get you other things that will let you custumize you play style

 

thats the only problem with that method is that you cant really experiment, but at least they could get balance.

[Delavager]

Someone doesn't get it, that someone is you.

 

Expertise (or equivalent pvp stat in other games) is only there to make pvp progression into a gear grind, and therefore no extra thought has to be put into a more engaging method of progression. no other reason.

 

Lolololol. You are 100% wrong. Progression in pvp gear grind is by DIFFERENT TIERS of gear, or the existence of gear in general, it has absolutely nothing to do with pvp grind. If you remove expertise, you still have a progression of gear grind. Thus you are 100% wrong. You can tell it's there to separate pvp and pve because it only improves your abilities IN PVP ONLY.

 

Just fail. Go to school.

[Atamosk]

Someone doesn't get it, that someone is you.

 

Expertise (or equivalent pvp stat in other games) is only there to make pvp progression into a gear grind, and therefore no extra thought has to be put into a more engaging method of progression. no other reason.

 

in wow actually experties was created to increase fight times in pvp.

 

it increased survivability in a way that would not make the gear viable for pve battles

 

the first pvp gear set in wow was one of the best sets to use in pve setting

 

to make fights longer and ensure that pvp gear would not deminish the greatness of pve raid sets was the reason for experties.

 

gear grinding is a response to the mmo genre in general.

 

I think an intro blue set would be a great idea one that could be gotten from warzon commendations.

 

from what i have read if you just gear up with pve purple mods you can almost negate the benifits of experties gear if not level the playing field a bit.

 

I will be charging in as soon as i hit 50 but i will also be making my gear better so that i dont suck as much.

 

*edit*

 

i dont know about other systems of pvp and if blizz took this from someone else but this is why they did it not sure about anyone else

 

also in wow its not called experties i forget what its called haha but it is the same stat it is dmg reduction

Edited January 27, 2012 by Atamosk

[Jimjim]

Yep and this is why PvP is dead in this game. Who wants to get their *** kicked in huttball 1000 times to gear up, to kick *** in huttball 10000 more times? Lame. Oh and wasn't Bioware all on about *not* making this game about the gear? Hmm.....

[BentlikeBindo]

 

It's true, it is being selfish. The definition of selfish is only looking at something from your own perspective and not considering others.

 

Also there was only one game that came before this and wow that had successful pvp, and that was DAOC. Additionally it doesn't compare because DAOC only had RvR combat. Otherwise there exists no MMORPG prior with successful PvP.

 

Read the forums. People are saying literally that players will leave because they are losing. This thread has many posts stating that.

 

To repeat the title, IT IS WHAT IT IS. Nothing people are suggesting will solve anything, just make it worse.

 

You can't remove PvP gear at the moment because you will just then go get PvE gear.

You can't remove Expertise because then you'll just get PvE gear. Additionally, if you remove Expertise, the OTHER STATS on the battlemasters gear will still destroy "new level 50s" Anybody suggesting removing Expertise specifically just needs to delete their forum account.

Until the REMOVE GEAR from PvP (different from removing PvP gear) and offer an alternate reward/progression system, there's nothing that can be done to make it better. And to be honest, removing gear doesn't make sense for an RPG because it removes the ability to "define your character" post 50.

 

I like what you have to say, for the most part...

 

I just want to quote you on these because I just read this and have to agree that GW2 is probably more suited for you, and I know for me as well, but I would expect someone that is ideally looking for an equal, skill based playing field to not be so heavily in favor of pampering current kings of the hill.

 

And attacking people like me, who think expertise is a joke and a lame excuse for game design (separation from PvE/PvP gear is necessary though) doesn't show me squat.

 

All I see is negativity, and it's a shame because you probably have some good ideas based on your keen taste in PvP styles.

 

Look , no flamewars wanted, and I agree that the fix is not here on the forums yet but work together to find one ** hence a FORUM!

 

If what you say is true about the stats on battlemaster gear still blowing starter 50 gear out of the water (sans expertise) then that sounds like THE solution to me.

 

Good players are rewarded with better gear, PvEs can compete if they so chose, and beginners have MORE of a level playing field knowing they are working towards (albeit aimlessly) their best gear available.

Edited January 27, 2012 by BentlikeBindo

[Atamosk]

the only thing i dont understand is why did they ad the 10% to dmg and maybe healing. The dmg reduction plus the great stats is enough to make it more acceptable in the game the dmg negates that and really just adds a bonus that i find counter productive to making pvp more interesting

[JingleHell]

I'm not Battlemaster. I only have part of a champion set, a couple pieces Columi, and some moddable stuff with high end mods. I regularly kill or hold my own against Battlemasters with way better gear.

 

When I first started PvP, I was in level 50 blue and purple quality gear, against people in full Champion. I won enough to catch up. I did and still do fine. The gear gap is only a huge issue if the gap is from Champion to nonsense gear. Most of the people I've witnessed making those complaints on my server are wearing sub-40 greens, not entry level 50.

 

Every MMO is about return on investment showing in progression. Even in Eve, where you can blow real money to sell Plex on the AH and get a pile of money, after ignoring a character for 2 years while his skills ranked up, there's still an investment. And you'll still do worse than someone who plays more and has more practice controlling their ship.

 

In games like this, where the investment is solely in play time for gear and practice, the time and practice make a bigger gap than in games where cash can make up for some of the time, but the existence of the gap itself is no different.

 

All in all, it boils down to this: a large part of the experience for people in an MMO is some level of competition with the other players, whether it's direct in Warzones, or indirect through progression races. If the game's model involves gear progression, which the majority of people like to some degree or other, then time and gear become two parts of a ratio.

[Eludajae]

I've dealt with it, I unsubbed

 

Then why are you still posting here?

[thanealpha]

This is really a philosophy question more than a game design one.

 

There are two schools of thought:

 

1> This is a game, and as such a GAME should give all players equal footing letting their skill determine the winner.

 

2> This is a grind, and as such the person who grinds more should have more power as a reward for their time.

 

One uses basic principals of game design. One uses a more cost/benefit ratio of economics to the equation.

 

BOTH are equally valid viewpoints, and they don't HAVE to be mutually exclusive. But they often are because MMO designers are often in one camp or the other instead of viewing themselves as someone with the power to design and develop a model that would fullfill BOTH viewpoints.

 

I could go into all kinds of examples of how BOTH could be satisfied, but it's a pretty easy excercize for someone with a reasonable amount of experience with these games.

[Roak]

Then why are you still posting here?

 

what the **** has that got to do with you?

Edited January 27, 2012 by Roak

[Atamosk]

Then why are you still posting here?

 

yeah why? that seems so silly if you dont play then forget about the game why are you literally wasting your time reading and responding in these forums.

[Delavager]

B.S. in Psychology, Masters in Social Work, Licensed Clinical Social Worker. I've forgotten more about psychology that you probably know. I also cut out the wall of text because it is just too much to respond to but I'll make a few points...

 

-You discuss the purpose is to progress your character, which is true. But character progression doesn't have to be gear based, and certainly doesn't have to be super exceptionally gear based. Go ahead and give the uber-nerd a reason to play 200 hours and have "better" gear-- but you don't have to go and make it *game breaking*.

 

-You say that "eventually people will get there". This makes a lot of assumptions, and there are lots of people that won't get there. Who? The people that come across a mirror class, play better than them, but get stomped because of gear. If gear progression was less severe, this wouldn't be an issue and that newer toon would have *a chance*. Right now, they do not. There are a lot of people that will either go back to playing a previous game or move onto a new game because IT IS NOT FUN. As I said previously, you should not have to continue to run up the mountain just to be *competitive*.

 

-Additionally, I don't think many people would be shocked when the Dev's "move the goalposts" in a few months. New ranks and gear will probably come out. If not, you might then begin to see the "battlemaster vets" start to complain about "nothing new", especially when more people begin to have similar gear and they can't uber-2shot people.

 

Did you fail out of reading comprehension while in college as well? You A) didn't read what I posted and B) are so short minded in thinking it's amazing you graduated.

 

A) I didn't say it had to be gear based, I in fact said several times they could (and I would prefer) make it so it's a different system. HOWEVER IT'S NOT THAT WAY YET. What I said was you cannot remove gear without the introduction of a different system.

 

B) Sucks to be those who will not get there? It's a compromise, if you go towards one side, you eff the other side. Whatever they do with their current system they lose player base. They either lose people because they hit "best gear end game" and don't have anything to progress to, or lose people because they don't want to grind for a bit. Some people play strictly so they can get better gear and stomp on less geared players. Thus you'd lose those players to. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU LOSE PLAYERS. Can't satisfy everybody. Until they make "ALL PEOPLE EQUAL" in PvP, there is going to be the "best gear out there" and a disparity between geared players and there's nothing that can be done about it except removing gear from PvP. As you are a psychology major you should know this, but studies show that people tend more to stay for the grind/progression then they do for the fun, EVEN IF THEY AREN'T NECESSARILY HAVING FUN DOING IT, purely for the sake of completion or achievement. Thus the argument can be made that they are keeping more people playing the game by having this disparity then those who are leaving due to it.

 

C) I doubt they have new gear in a few months. It is just your opinion, just as mine is mine, and you can't really make facts or judgments based on it. And again, you can't please everybody. Some player base is going to suffer with EVERY DECISION That is made. Just the way the world works. By please YOU doesn't mean they've pleased everybody.

[PinkSugar]

I replied to someone complaining about expertise in another thread and wanted to repost it here.

 

First of all expertise is the stat that is rewarded on the gear of a PvP player...(ya i know you know this ).... More TIME you sink in the more of it you get.

 

So exertise is a defining stat of how much time one has spent playing.

So the guy that currently is lvl 50 that is living his life in the battleground is beating the crap outta the guy that just turned 50....And alot of ppl are whining cause he has more gear and its not fair. Here's how it works for you players that want to play very little and be rewarded for simply logging on:

 

Player A spends 10 hours a week playing this game. Player B spends 168 hours a week playing this game. Player A things he should be at the same normalized gear level as Player B? I think NOT.

 

Player A may be a better player and have more skill then Player B but Player B has more time to sink in and to get geared out so he can stomp Player A early game. Player A logs on forums yaps off in general chat and all in all just complains about how unfair the game is but in reality Player A needs to play for another 158 hours to catch up to Player B in gear.

 

A month or 2 go buy....

Player A is now as geared as Player B. The battle continues and Player B can't hold a candle to the might of Player A's skill. Player B now comes to the forums and pisses whines moans and complains cause Player A is now playing an "overpowered" class.

 

Another month goes buy...

Player C installs the game runs into Player B......the battle rages on.

 

Like every other MMO in exsistence ...there is a time commitment made and one that has to be achieved before you can be all crazy geared out regardless of how skiled you think you are. (most of you are terrible and are still learning to throw the ball and not stand on edges where warriors can leap at you).

 

Side Note: World PvP -- (not illum i'm mean actuall world pvp) - STOP ************ IF YOU GET CAMPED ON A PVP SERVER! ---- you rolled on a pvp server if someone wants to be a douche bag and pin you down and your to stupid to learn how to get away from them thats your problem and you shoulda rolled on a PvE server.

 

Fix the week to hour conversion rofl

 

Go get a job!

 

Further more, when everyone eventually unsubs and goes to guild wars 2 who will Player B challenge with all that broken gear then?

 

Bahaha....

[PinkSugar]

When you have level 10 to 49 achieving a more competative balance than a single level does because of the gear they get then there is clearly a problem with that gear. Does that concept not register with people or is it just those who have all the gear and dont want to lose their advantage that 'dont get it'.

 

I agree.

 

I wish that I never leveled to 50. It's primarily filled with a bunch of Low Life, no job having, all the time in the world to play (I'm a video game hero) people. Most of them don't even have the skill, but they have the gear to make up for the fact that they lack raw talent.

 

ROFL!

 

I'm just sayin' the sheet is funny. But according to Bioware, "This is working as intended".

[Delavager]

I like what you have to say, for the most part...

 

I just want to quote you on these because I just read this and have to agree that GW2 is probably more suited for you, and I know for me as well, but I would expect someone that is ideally looking for an equal, skill based playing field to not be so heavily in favor of pampering current kings of the hill.

 

And attacking people like me, who think expertise is a joke and a lame excuse for game design (separation from PvE/PvP gear is necessary though) doesn't show me squat.

 

All I see is negativity, and it's a shame because you probably have some good ideas based on your keen taste in PvP styles.

 

Look , no flamewars wanted, and I agree that the fix is not here on the forums yet but work together to find on hence a FORUM!

 

If what you say is true about the stats on battlemaster gear still blowing starter 50 gear out of the water (sans expertise) then that sounds like THE solution to me.

 

Good players are rewarded with better gear, PvEs can compete if they so chose, and beginners have MORE of a level playing field knowing they are working towards (albeit aimlessly) their best gear available.

 

The reason I "Attack" you (even though I didn't say anything about you in this post) is 'cause you guys attack others.

 

There is a reason the resilience went into WoW and it isn't because of what the other guy was saying about keeping people alive. That was a side effect of it. If you go into the history of WoW and look at the REAL REASON why Resilience went into it is because too many players were rocking the best Raid Gear and destroying everybody in PvP. Thus it became required to have the best Raid Gear (which isn't easy and requires a full guild) to compete "fairly" in PvP. Thus they added Expertise, which made it so PvP gear was better for PvP than PvE gear.

 

Now I quote WoW because that's where Expertise ultimately came from and I am giving you the reason. It's a very legit reason, because if you took it out guess what would happen. People who have over "200 hours in a week" to both PvP grind and PvE grind would have a full set of Rakata gear and OWN UP SHOP IN PvP and we'd be begging for Expertise to come back in.

 

Someone else made a decent point in this thread though it's all subjective. You could tone down Expertise so that it doesn't do so much, like only have increased survivability. The issue here is you have to balance it so that PvE gear doesn't become minutely better than PvP gear. So thus, expertise has to remain at least as beneficial as to make it better in PvP than PvE gear.

 

All I was saying is that Expertise is not the issue, so stop saying it is. It's gear disparities in PvP in general. I personally don't think it's a big deal because after x amount of time I'll be the same gear as everyone else, but that's just me.

[Roak]

The reason I "Attack" you (even though I didn't say anything about you in this post) is 'cause you guys attack others.

 

There is a reason the resilience went into WoW and it isn't because of what the other guy was saying about keeping people alive. That was a side effect of it. If you go into the history of WoW and look at the REAL REASON why Resilience went into it is because too many players were rocking the best Raid Gear and destroying everybody in PvP. Thus it became required to have the best Raid Gear (which isn't easy and requires a full guild) to compete "fairly" in PvP. Thus they added Expertise, which made it so PvP gear was better for PvP than PvE gear.

 

could've put a resiliance like stat on raid gear, but then people wouldn't need to grind for pvp gear.

[Ellyll]

So exertise is a defining stat of how much time one has spent playing.

 

Yes, which is the problem.

 

1. If you are good and have that much practice you shouldn't need an artificial boost.

2. If you have that much practice and you still lose to new 50s you are bad, and should lose.

 

/thread

[Ealthan]

I reckon most good pvper's will say a game like guild wars, why do I think that? because it truly is a level playing field, the only difference between player A and B is their own choices, everyone has the same options to choose from be it stats or gear or what skills are on your bar and the fight is all about the application of these skills, that's where you find out who is who, theres no player B who can't really play but has far better gear camping new level 20's there, the players who can't really play in a game like gw don't play pvp for very long because they are not very good at it.

 

But even guild wars has its problems its by no means an ideal system, it's prone to groups of folk who think they are "elite" just because it says so on their 75k armour and this week's "BEST EVER BUILD" and anyone who doesn't use it is a "NOOB LOLZ" or some such it's hard for new players that are good to get involved in the pvp scene there because too many people think they know it all and forgot what it was like for them when they just installed the game, new players feel unable to ask questions about the game due to the tiade of abuse that follows, theres probably a lot of people playing SWTOR right now who are frightened to ask for advice.

 

Remove a stat? why? people will find something else to complain about, THAT is the problem right there, it's not the games, its the people who are playing them, the only fault that games companies have is to pander to ever whim of the console generation, who want maximum reward for minimum effort, the vocal minority of player B's, who yesterday were grinding new guys and today being camped by the same people who remembered yesterday, these people complain the loudest and in the grand scheme of things are the least relevant, yet for some reason nearly every MMO I've played has been ruined by the company listening to these fools who all have the same argument "I went into PVP and got killed, It's not fair"

 

Bottom line is if you join pvp there is a chance your toon might lose his health, if your the sort of person who can't handle that without freaking out then PVP is not the place for you.

 

The first few days of pvp here was fine, teams full of good players trying their best to achieve the objectives, slowly but surely it seems that a lot of player B's have started playing now, there was a guy earlier done nothing but talk in the ops chat, died like 14 times kept throwing themselves at the middle turret like he was AI and at the end when the team lost he says "You all epic fail" like it was someone else's fault, very next battleground the team does well and he thinks its all because of him.

 

THAT is the problem with pvp, people, plain and simple Short of getting Bioware to go round houses and kill all the people that don't agree with your particular view of things, what exactly do people expect them to do? I for one do not want to play an mmo that as soon as you log in you get an I win button in the mail and a full set of purple items just for talking to the first npc that I've seen.

 

Personally I've had better battles with poor geared players that are at least trying to play the game on my team than I have had with max level, best gear possible players running around trying to get the highest on the kill count, I've seen low leveled healers win the game for the team by the proper application of what skills they did have rather than whining about what things they don't have.

 

Guy yesterday gave me a hard time for not passing the ball in huttball even though I was under the effects of crowd control and claimed I was "seeking glory" when I pointed out to them that if they had done something other than stand on the goal line shouting "PASS PASS" in the chat, something like use their sin's crowd control on the people who where running at me as I would have done then I wouldn't have been under the effects of cc and able to pass or score, they said sorry and left the team.

 

Too many whining people that expect everything to go their own way, too many idiots that think of themselves as invincible and elite until someone comes along and hands their head to them.

 

Game companies can't do a thing about people who play games, it's an unfortunate thing for those of us who couldn't care what colour your gear was, we just like good playing.

[BentlikeBindo]

The last two pages are starting a really great discussion imo. Whether it be what JingleHell said or the very intelligent point on the two different schools of thought (your name escapes me pardon!)

 

Ignore the guy making personal attacks unless he has something meaningful to add. What do they tell you to do at the zoo?

 

I think both schools of thought are valid when it comes to mmos (although I clearly prefer skill based games like many of the good posters in here )

 

Gear grinds are anticlimactic imho. Life is about the journey, and that is why like many a poster has said in this discussion, 10-49 PvP is where it''s at!!! @ AJUNTA PALL couldn't say how the 50s crowd is, but 10-49 it is solid on faction ratio , I always find a match within 5 (maybe 10 min max) of queing.

 

KEEP it up AJUNTA!!!

 

On topic, once again you Delavger (sorry on the butcher) stated that:

 

IF you remove expertise from gear battlemaster gear's stats still trump entry level gear.

 

How does that not sounds like there is apart of the solution within your bickering?

 

No expertise=less of disparity (but as you stated STILL A REWARDED DISPARITY) between "tiers" of PvP efficiency. both parties compromised, both hated expertise, and deep six'd it..lol

 

This opens up potentially MORE of a pool of people to PvP with= more fun!!!

 

(more people flock to super fun pvp if there is less of a disparity brings newcomers from the PvE realm, or newcomers to the game)

 

WINWIN is WIN WIN

 

*** edit IN: I caught your last post, and I appreciate you being more civil, but be honest, "all you were trying to do" was attack people on a basically anonymous forum that disagree with you (delete your account, go fail, go to school etc etc I wont quote you as to not embarrass you)

 

Now that we are past your inward honesty, I agree, I don't think we should just poof it without adjusting the system. no taking without adding in this bare-ish bones PvP system

 

 

2nd edit: @ Elathan (butcher with names sry)

 

I tend to lean more on your side of the argument but not every DISCUSSION on a FORUM is about/nor made by whining kids or people that have no lives.

 

I hate it when developers crack and just nerf this that (even though I still own with my smuggler, quote me im elite haha) or drastic overhauls that neglects big parts of the playerbase. Let's avoid sweeping generalizations about who or what generation is to blame for whatever ruined anything.

 

Let's start with this post and any all subsequent posts to attempt ignore those that complain aimlessly complain OR ATTEMPT to illustrate the facts if you see differently.

 

By calling a generation of people whining babies or that certain mmoers are of a gilded age and everything is on a platter, it only putting you in the same category

 

complaints about complainers

 

tldy ---stay positive and you will see positivity around you

Edited January 27, 2012 by BentlikeBindo

[Delavager]

On topic, once again you Delavger (sorry on the butcher) stated that:

 

IF you remove expertise from gear battlemaster gear's stats still trump entry level gear.

 

How does that not sounds like there is apart of the solution within your bickering?

 

No expertise=less of disparity (but as you stated STILL A REWARDED DISPARITY) between "tiers" of PvP efficiency. both parties compromised, both hated expertise, and deep six'd it..lol

 

I personally don't like repeating myself this will be the fourth post I make regarding expertise.

 

Expertise has nothing to do with gear disparity, it was just an example to show that the underlying problem is gear, not expertise. Basically stating that if you remove expertise, you don't solve your issue.

 

 

Expertise exists for a specific GOOD reason. Go read one of my last 4 posts about it.

 

If you remove expertise you open up people grinding for Raid Gear to own up in PvP. That's it. For that reason you cannot remove expertise.

 

EDIT:

For that reason you cannot remove expertise WITHOUT removing gear from PvP all together or preventing "non-pvp" gear in PvP.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Delavager

[Atamosk]

could've put a resiliance like stat on raid gear, but then people wouldn't need to grind for pvp gear.

 

what are you even talking about.... that makes no sense.

[Ripchord]

I'm level 50 and primarily PVE so I don't know much about expertise... so if I spend every night doing hardmode flashpoints and get the best gear I can (while working 40hrs a week, taking college classes, etc) I can't expect to do very well in PVP the few times I wanna queue up (or seek out world pvp) for a break from pve? That's not good.

 

We're all playing the same game, we're all in the same boat, we're teammates and enemies but BW wants to fragment it more with a pvp-specific stat? Resilience (and arena/pvp gear in general) is the main reason I quit WoW when TBC was released after playing 60-80hrs/wk for over 2.5 yrs, it's just not fair to fragment your consumers like that.