PyroTech Raiding

[johnxtreeme]

Im level 42 and I really love my Powertech Pyrotech in solo and PVP play. I originally rolled a PT to help my guild tank but it seems we have enough tanks to be honest, so I'd rather DPS.

 

Is Pyrotech a viable endgame DPS spec? Is any Powertech spec able to keep up with pure DPS classes during raiding?

 

Thank you

[TirjacShiki]

Totally, Pyrotech has a very high sustainable DPS that doesn't even really compete with the other classes because it's pretty ridiculously overpowered.

 

The majority of fights in pve end up with me spamming rapid shots because I pull aggro if I use anything else.

 

This is of course assuming you know what you're doing.

[Libertine]

Totally, Pyrotech has a very high sustainable DPS that doesn't even really compete with the other classes because it's pretty ridiculously overpowered.

 

The majority of fights in pve end up with me spamming rapid shots because I pull aggro if I use anything else.

 

This is of course assuming you know what you're doing.

 

pyro is bad for raiding cause compared to AP the sustained DPS is rather low.

sure, with AP you will have smaller numbers in terms of damage flying around but prototype cylinder ventilation keeps you going a lot longer.

 

Pyro has terrible heat managment and you other then vent heat or getting stunned you have no way of getting rid of it whereas AP has permanent venting thats to prototype cylinder ventilation ...

[TirjacShiki]

pyro is bad for raiding cause compared to AP the sustained DPS is rather low.

sure, with AP you will have smaller numbers in terms of damage flying around but prototype cylinder ventilation keeps you going a lot longer.

 

Pyro has terrible heat managment and you other then vent heat or getting stunned you have no way of getting rid of it whereas AP has permanent venting thats to prototype cylinder ventilation ...

 

And this is where the debating starts...

 

True pyro doesn't have as many heat venting capabilities as AP, but the higher dps allows you to be a little bit slower with your dps to keep your heat down and still out perform AP as far as DPS goes.

 

Again, this is of course only if you know what you're doing. If you know how to play mmo's and can think during fights, go pyro, if you want to space out during pve and sacrifice dps, go AP.

[je-s-ter]

I like these debates.

I expect you both have numbers to support your claim that one is better than another? As was said in other thread, go find yourself a 35ish (if you're 50) world boss and fight him for 3 minutes on both specs, then do the simple math (total damage/180).

Post your results and observations. If you haven't done this, then your claims that one is better than the other in terms of DPS are of no value.

Edited January 27, 2012 by je-s-ter

[chainsawsamurai]

I like these debates.

I expect you both have numbers to support your claim that one is better than another? As was said in other thread, go find yourself a 35ish (if you're 50) world boss and fight him for 3 minutes on both specs, then do the simple math (total damage/180).

Post your results and observations. If you haven't done this, then your claims that one is better than the other in terms of DPS are of no value.

 

Where are your findings Mr President?

 

How can you expect to command anyone else to go off and do testing when you haven't provided anything of value either?

[TirjacShiki]

I like these debates.

I expect you both have numbers to support your claim that one is better than another? As was said in other thread, go find yourself a 35ish (if you're 50) world boss and fight him for 3 minutes on both specs, then do the simple math (total damage/180).

Post your results and observations. If you haven't done this, then your claims that one is better than the other in terms of DPS are of no value.

 

Theory is good enough for me. I truly do not care enough to go find some word boss and spend money to respec a couple times to try to prove a point.

[je-s-ter]

Where are your findings Mr President?

 

How can you expect to command anyone else to go off and do testing when you haven't provided anything of value either?

 

Am I the one claiming one build has better DPS than the other? If I was to blatantly claim something like that, I would damn sure at least made the effort to provide some basic evidence to support this.

 

Unfortunately, the common trend on these forums is that everyone is claiming the build they are using is the best for DPS with nothing but their own "feeling" to back it up. More often than not, those people didnt even try both specs, but are basing their opinion about the other solely on what they hear.

 

Theory is good enough for me. I truly do not care enough to go find some word boss and spend money to respec a couple times to try to prove a point.

 

Theory is often wrong. That's why the Parakeet build was believed to have better sustained DPS than 31 ST build, yet all the testing that was actually made proved the opposite.

Edited January 27, 2012 by je-s-ter

[Dharagada]

That's why the Parakeet build was believed to have better sustained DPS than 31 ST build, yet all the testing that was actually made proved the opposite.

 

To be fair, no it hasn't. I'm not saying ST is better than the Parakeet build or vice versa, but reading the threads on the subject I've seen nothing conclusive one way or another.

 

The only way it's going to be known for sure is when we start getting some actual parses in.

[Mhak]

PT Pyrotech is so viable that unless your tank gives you a threat bubble, he will constantly be taunting things off you. It is fantastic endgame deeps.

 

I'm not sure where some people here are getting their info about AP doing more damage than Pyro, that is false. AP's damage, sustained and burst, is significantly lower than Pyrotech's. Pyro heat management is a non-issue with a proper rotation, it's easy to never get above 40 heat. It's flat out disinformation to say AP does more damage than Pyro.

 

I have tested both specs on the council fight in EV. AP takes roughly 33% longer to kill the same Council member. Give or take 5-10% for a randomness factor that doesn't really exist but which some people want to think does to try and defend AP, and you still have Pyro doing far more DPS than AP ever will.

 

Anybody making any claim that Pyro does less damage than AP has simply not tested them both. This is really not a debatable issue, Pyro does significantly more damage than AP.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Mhak

[johnxtreeme]

Thanks for all your replies

[ericdjobs]

Guild needed DPS so I switched from tank to DPS...

 

My DPS set is really starting to come together nicely. Guard HAS to be placed on me, or else I WILL pull threat. Hell, even with guard I still pull threat sometimes.

 

Here's the deal why Pyrotech totally rocks at endgame PvE DPS...

 

 

Almost ALL of our damage is unmitigated by boss armor.

 

Thermal Detonator=Elemental

Flame burst=Elemental

Incindeary Missile/DoT=elemental

CGC DoT=elemental

RailShot=Ignores 90% of armor with talents

 

The only thing that is mitigated by armor is rocket punch (We don't really use unload in our rotation)

 

 

This is also why we practically melt people in PVP.. but I digress

[Hizoka]

i am making another alt and thinking powertech pyro dude whats the best priorities for it?

[Moostick]

People often mistaken PTs as crap DPS (for whatever reason). The only comparible class is a DPS sorceror; no other DPS class can compare. Operators will win at the beginning if they get that opening backstab, but that's getting nerfed.

 

PTs are very viable for endgame PVE and PVP.

 

PVE: Tanks hate me as I always pull aggro.

PVP: Average 400k damage in a full game.

 

Have fun raining hell on everyone.

 

Edit: I guess I should add that I have only above average gear. I've done each HM over 10 times, and only gotten one Columni. Not an exaggeration either as I go with the same group and I started ninjaing Sith Inquis gear (really Bioware, even out the drop odds).

 

1 Columni, 3 Tionese, and the rest are Champion. So not exactly top of the line gear and my PT is destroying things already.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Moostick

[Hizoka]

People often mistaken PTs as crap DPS (for whatever reason). The only comparible class is a DPS sorceror; no other DPS class can compare. Operators will win at the beginning if they get that opening backstab, but that's getting nerfed.

 

PTs are very viable for endgame PVE and PVP.

 

PVE: Tanks hate me as I always pull aggro.

PVP: Average 400k damage in a full game.

 

Have fun raining hell on everyone.

 

Edit: I guess I should add that I have only above average gear. I've done each HM over 10 times, and only gotten one Columni. Not an exaggeration either as I go with the same group and I started ninjaing Sith Inquis gear (really Bioware, even out the drop odds).

 

1 Columni, 3 Tionese, and the rest are Champion. So not exactly top of the line gear and my PT is destroying things already.

 

i'm sure its good damage, but nothing beats a well played Marauder, however the number of well played marauders is prolly countable on one hand.

[theangryllama]

i'm sure its good damage, but nothing beats a well played Marauder, however the number of well played marauders is prolly countable on one hand.

 

And that's fine cause we still have our place due to the ridiculous ramp up time of marauders (at least annihilation ones, never grouped with a carnage marauder and i only see rage in pvp). Its what, 30s to get annihilate stacked up and at least 10s or so to get fury, juyo form and all your bleeds stacked up. You just leave the stuff that needs to be burned down quick to me and you chill on the dude thats going to be alive for a few mins so you can get cranking lol

[Nowiser]

Everyone is speculating when the debate rages on which is better or not, considering we cannot parse combat logs. There are various methods to test your "DPS" on other mobs or whatever but none of it can be considered fully accurate till we can parse logs. That being said, as a pyrotech who raids DPS it is very beneficial, My raid group is 5/5 HM Karagga (not going to do nightmare until loot is fixed, there is no reason) and 4/5 NM EV (Just dont like doing SOA, its an annoying buggy fight). There are a few reasons that Pyrotech is good for raiding, I have not tried AP, so I cant comment on that, but here are the reasons I like pyrotech:

 

1. You arent confined to melee, now, dont get me wrong our DPS can only be fully utilized inside of 4m, BUT we have the ability, for a melee class, to still do damage from range. This is huge considering the majority of raid bosses cater to ranged. You can back out and still use abilities, therefore we dont suffer the same dps problems as other melee

 

2. With our CGC and IM we have DoTs, sustained damage is huge in a 6 minute fight, they may be smaller DoTs than some classes, but it is nice to always be able to have 2 DoTs up on the target.

 

3. Elemental damage, which was stated before, not a lot of mitigation against us, also, tech abilites and accuracy, I dont remember seeing ANY of my attacks/abilites miss, granted that could be a Bioware bug who knows

 

4. The option to forgo our rotation in PvE to burn, what I mean by this is there are certain portions of boss fights that require a 10-15 second pause, run around, switch, jump move or such, you have the option to smash thru abilites while letting heat regen before heading back in.

 

Heat is one reason why many people think the PT sucks, it can be difficult to manage if you are not careful. TD is a great ability for PvP, i hardly use it for PvE because of the high heat cost, it works as an amazing heat dump if you get stuck with things on CD (railshot is being mean and not free proccing). Also, as Bounty Hunters we are the only ones who cannot add to their max "mana pool" for lack of a better term. Inquisitors can talent for more force, same with Operatives, Rage is "built", so much different than BHs. I love the heat mechanisim, it is an awesome idea.

 

PTs also have the option to have (in my opinion and experience) better burst DPS than anyone IF their Railshot continues to proc, there have been a few times in an encounter where I will pop relics/adrenals/explosive fuel and then hit flameburst/RS 5-6 times in sequence because its been free, if those are critting that is 2.2k-2,4k on flameburst and 4.5k-5.5k on RS over and over. not to mention IM and CGC are still procing their DoT.

 

Needless to say Pyrotech (and most likely AP) is very solid for endgame, dont let anyone tell you one is better than the other because the bottom line is we dont know yet, wait for logs. Which at that point all the pyro or AP people will begin the "I told you so game" on which one is better. They both work... and raiding is an 8 person gig, focused on ranged, if you cant kill stuff its ranged fault not yours

 

Also, for what its worth, we raid with no sorc healer, which, according to some circles is "Impossible", not saying this to brag or anything, just saying we may not even run at what is considered optimal for raiding

 

50 sorc dps

50 agent heals

50 merc heals

50 merc dps

50 mara dps

50 PT DPS

50 Jugg Tank

50 assass DPS

 

 

EDIT: I am running in about 6 Rakata pieces, 4 columi or so, and whatever left is Champion, although three pieces are old from when i was a tank so theya re supercommando.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Nowiser

[exphryl]

Without true parsers it's hard to say which is better.

 

In my *opinion* based on what I've tried with both, I enjoy Pyro more. Considering I get good procs it is pretty amazing DPS.

 

The downside is you HAVE to learn how to manage your heat well, if not you will be rapid shotting your way down to higher heat regeneration far to often and negating your ability to use specials. This is why I feel people dislike the spec in PvE, they like blowing all their abilities then even with Vent heat get back up to 90%+ and wonder what is going on and think the spec is broken when really it's just themselves.

 

AP is good DPS as well (again, from my personal experience) but the drawing point to this is how easy it is to manage your heat and keep abilities up. It's a good go to for new DPSers I believe.

Edited January 30, 2012 by exphryl

[ericdjobs]

Should be using Thermal Detonator on CD in PvE (using spreadsheet simulations, it's well worth it) Macro it to Thermal Sensor Override (I use autohotkey for this purpose, as well as railshot procs)

[Prunetracy]

Yeah, I don't understand the hate for TD in PvE. It costs 16 heat (same as flame burst), and does WAY more than FB. True, you can't proc PPA with TD, but the damage difference has to make up for it.

 

I use TSO for IM, since that's the most expensive ability Pyros use. I don't see why you'd use it on anything else.

[theangryllama]

Yeah, I don't understand the hate for TD in PvE. It costs 16 heat (same as flame burst), and does WAY more than FB. True, you can't proc PPA with TD, but the damage difference has to make up for it.

 

I use TSO for IM, since that's the most expensive ability Pyros use. I don't see why you'd use it on anything else.

 

I do the same. Still trying to figure out if its worth using IM to keep the DoT up constantly or only when TSO is available (or when out of flame burst range).

With automated defenses your generally looking at a ~30s cooldown on TSO (with 24s being the lowest if you crit every GCD) with a decent crit rate due to the constant CGC hits you hit twice on most GCD's with a 40%+ tech crit chance.

[Sykper]

Absolutely Viable, as many people have mentioned, PT excel at tanking and DPS, however our burst does generate a LOT of threat.

 

Optimally our DPS is best within 4M, but we have many tools (if you spec into TD as well) to do a lot at range consistently, especially on melee-unfriendly fights.

 

I do believe I read somewhere that if you want to go Pyro, get TD until you reach enough Aim (think it was 1400-1500) so the benefit of the 9% in shield-tech outweighs the use for full 31 Pyro...

 

But I digress, this is about whether PT DPS is good, it IS.

 

I typically prioritize capping tech accuracy (105%), then surge, crit, then power...aim above endurance gear...

 

I do quite well, the 2 piece eliminator PvE gear isn't useful except for stats, but the 4 piece is a godsend for no-heat Railshots!

[ericdjobs]

Absolutely Viable, as many people have mentioned, PT excel at tanking and DPS, however our burst does generate a LOT of threat.

 

Optimally our DPS is best within 4M, but we have many tools (if you spec into TD as well) to do a lot at range consistently, especially on melee-unfriendly fights.

 

I do believe I read somewhere that if you want to go Pyro, get TD until you reach enough Aim (think it was 1400-1500) so the benefit of the 9% in shield-tech outweighs the use for full 31 Pyro...

 

But I digress, this is about whether PT DPS is good, it IS.

 

I typically prioritize capping tech accuracy (105%), then surge, crit, then power...aim above endurance gear...

 

I do quite well, the 2 piece eliminator PvE gear isn't useful except for stats, but the 4 piece is a godsend for no-heat Railshots!

 

Why would you use the 4pc for free railshots when the majority of our railshots are free to begin with? I don't know about you, but rarely (after the first) am I using railshot unless it's on it procs, because it most definitely will proc every time before the CD finishes on it... at least in my experience.

 

You're much better off taking the Combat Tech set, at least for raid dps. -15sec to explosive fuel is VERY nice (and particularly nice for controlled burst in PVP..makes the CD 1min45sec.. it lasts 15 seconds so effective 1min30sec until you have 50%/57% tech crit again) and 8% dmg across the board to railshot is again, VERY NICE.. considering it's our hardest hitting ability and costs zero heat for us already most of the time.

 

I'm still debating the value of accuracy. Here's the deal; 20-25% of our damage is from railshot. Railshot is a 'weapon damage' attack, that means it uses 'ranged' accuracy, and not tech/special accuracy. Right now I'm sitting at 98.8% ranged accuracy and 108.8% tech accuracy... I still see railshots dodged, and this KILLS me because a dodged railshot totally negates all that power/crit on my gear for a long period of time (until it can make up for the ~2500 average lost damage).. so accuracy could be worth much more than we're giving it credit... can't really tell without spreadsheets/sims

Edited February 1, 2012 by ericdjobs

[signoredems]

can some of you guys post your PyroTech skill trees? i'm lvl 44 and have cruised through soloing using an ST build (taken from the powertech compendium which hasn't been updated in awhile) and wonderful, wonderful mako but would like to switch to DPS for raiding. i saw a 4/6/31 build for pvp - will this also work as a raid build?

[ericdjobs]

can some of you guys post your PyroTech skill trees? i'm lvl 44 and have cruised through soloing using an ST build (taken from the powertech compendium which hasn't been updated in awhile) and wonderful, wonderful mako but would like to switch to DPS for raiding. i saw a 4/6/31 build for pvp - will this also work as a raid build?

 

 

I use that 4/6/31 build.

 

I'm debating on dropping Prototype Cyclinders and the fire crit and taking the aim boost in the ST Tree.. simply because my aim is about 1500 right now..which would be an increase of ~140 aim which might overtake the value of crit.. because I'd gain around 1% to crit for ranged and tech, as well as the power boost that 150 aim provides.