Gear Gaps will always be there and cannot be changed....

[Tyrogon]

So many ignorant statements in one post. How did you do that?

 

how is what i said ignorant?

 

am i ignorant to the fact that you are not suppose to have to work for your gear? is that what i dont know? do you even know what ignorant means? are you mad?

[PloGreen]

The thing is the bag system is rng based, meaning I have seen people with centurion title in better gear than champions. It is also relatively easy to get, people are just lazy simple as that.

 

Op is spot on, this is an mmo with a gear progression system, that some of you do not have what others have does not mean anything needs changing, it means you need to put the effort in to. The only thing that needs to change is defeatist, mememe, self-entitled attitudes. If you cant be bothered to put time in for gear you don't deserve it, no matter how hard the opposition is. That is all it takes - time, not skill.

[Xandarous]

Meh stated I have toon who has full set, moved to another server b/c guild I was in died and old WoW guild reformed in TOR so I had to start over. If I had a server transfer option, I would not be so frustrated. I will admit, getting that set was stupid easy. Log on at 4 am, run to ilum, afk in center, then get 4 bags for weekly then do that every day for another 1; no fighting what so ever. Then there was the 10-50 bracket for month where you beat the snot out of low levels for easy valor. If you call that hard, I laugh at you. Worked for it, bwahahaha. I sure didn't.

 

You complain about the 10-50 bracket yet seem to forget there were sub 50s on BOTH sides. It was not all 50s vs low lvls. Stop being ignorant.

[Nziffle]

i think they should make the stats for all pvp gear the same, but have different looking sets as an incentive to pvp.

 

the first armour set would look rather simple, and the sets would get progressively more detailed and 'cooler' looking the higher-up the gear.

 

tl;dr: equalize stats for all pvp gear, but make sets look different aesthetically as an incentive to pvp for gear.

[PloGreen]

how is what i said ignorant?

 

am i ignorant to the fact that you are not suppose to have to work for your gear? is that what i dont know? do you even know what ignorant means? are you mad?

 

You are not ignorant at all. He just can't be bothered to play pvp against better geared people and thinks you should just get to 50 and be on a level playing field. Does not work like that. You can point fingers and say people had it easier etc but so what? No one elses fault you are behind others than yourself..

 

Either get on the saddle or off it. No one is going to throw you a cookie because you are lazy, or because its hard for you. This is level 50 pvp, and the system is gear progression - its an mmo, the main focus is loot to improve your char. Someone will always be in front and someone will always be behind.

 

Thats the truth, trouble is alot of people cannot handle it. They would rather just dumb a game down for everyone else that have been playing longer than they have. That makes no sense in an mmo with gear progression..

[Rogmar]

are you mad?

 

Oh just another kid.

[Meiu]

Can you guess what's wrong with that statement? Let me explain...

 

"Yes, I suffered and I want other people to suffer too. When I play video games I need to suffer. I work hard everyday to make a living and when I come home to play, I want to suffer. In fact, I don't want to come up with a better system, I want everyone to suffer just like I did."

 

Or

 

"Yes, I worked hard and I want other people to not cry and whine and actually work for something at least once in their life. When I play Video Games I need a sense of achievement because otherwise I may as well be a basement dweller who has mommy pay for everything. I work hard everyday in my life and I love my life so when I get home to play a game I would like to work hard and get a sense of achievement instead of exercise my sense of entitlement. In fact, this system is OK if they would just fix the random loot from the bags which is the primary issue that causes everyone's frustrations but they just want to scapegoat the entire PvP experience instead. I would like everyone else to stop being kids and demand to get something for nothing and actually work for something to show some effort. Otherwise enjoy being farmed by me, someone who works for what they got, and are better because of it."

 

I am sure you think that sounded extremely stupid just as what you posted sounds stupid (both are retarded arguments). Arguing subjectively is always bad and a pointless matter. If I agree with or not is not the point so much as if you are going to speak out at least do so without making yourself look like a fool and the argument take a dive into TROLLING territory. Thank you for your time.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Meiu

[Xandarous]

Or

 

"Yes, I worked hard and I want other people to not cry and whine and actually work for something at least once in their life. When I play Video Games I need a sense of achievement because otherwise I may as well be a basement dweller who has mommy pay for everything. I work hard everyday in my life and I love my life so when I get home to play a game I would like to work hard and get a sense of achievement instead of exercise my sense of entitlement. In fact, this system is OK if they would just fix the random loot from the bags which is the primary issue that causes everyone's frustrations but they just want to scapegoat the entire PvP experience instead. I would like everyone else to stop being kids and demand to get something for nothing and actually work for something to show some effort. Otherwise enjoy being farmed by me, someone who works for what they got, and are better because of it."

 

I am sure you think that sounded extremely stupid just as what you posted sounds stupid (both are retarded arguments). Arguing subjectively is always bad and a pointless matter. If I agree with or not is not the point so much as if you are going to speak out at least do so without making yourself look like a fool and the argument take a dive into TROLLING territory. Thank you for your time.

 

You sir are my new best friend!

[touc]

Meh stated I have toon who has full set, moved to another server b/c guild I was in died and old WoW guild reformed in TOR so I had to start over. If I had a server transfer option, I would not be so frustrated. I will admit, getting that set was stupid easy. Log on at 4 am, run to ilum, afk in center, then get 4 bags for weekly then do that every day for another 1; no fighting what so ever. Then there was the 10-50 bracket for month where you beat the snot out of low levels for easy valor. If you call that hard, I laugh at you. Worked for it, bwahahaha. I sure didn't.

 

I don't think any of the pvp is hard; it's really more of a time-sink but I enjoy pvping. You seem like you really don't want to work for anything.

[Xandarous]

I don't think any of the pvp is hard; it's really more of a time-sink but I enjoy pvping. You seem like you really don't want to work for anything.

 

People really do not want to work for anything. Still, if they are going to blame something, blame the loot drop system, not gear gap.

[Terrahero]

In an MMO where gear progression is a bases for character progression there will ALWAYS be a gear gap between those who have hit lvl cap first and those who hit it later. When you hit 50 expect to farm gear like everyone else.

 

Absolute and blatant LIE.

 

They could, very easily, normalize ALL stats the moment you enter a Warzone. Regardless of what your actual gear is. then PvP would not be based on who has the better gear anymore.

 

Wether to do it or not is what you can argue about. But not if its possible.

[Roak]

pve can be gear based

 

pvp should not be gear based

 

golden rules on how to make an engaging mmo for both pvers and pvpers

[Xandarous]

Absolute and blatant LIE.

 

They could, very easily, normalize ALL stats the moment you enter a Warzone. Regardless of what your actual gear is. then PvP would not be based on who has the better gear anymore.

 

Wether to do it or not is what you can argue about. But not if its possible.

 

Calling it a lie is your opinion. Let us assume we use your system where warzone normalize stats. What stats are we normalizing? Some people like to adjust stats to best suit their play style. Also, people like something to shoot for OTHER than just pvp glory. They like to feel like they are progressing with their character. Gear advancement does that.

 

Also, your system would remove the need for pvp gear and then open world pvp would be about who has the best pve gear. Sorry, but that just does not sit well with me or other pvpers.

 

pve can be gear based

 

pvp should not be gear based

 

golden rules on how to make an engaging mmo for both pvers and pvpers

 

Like I said above, pvpers want gear progression just like pvers. It brings a sense of accomplishment. If you want to play in a pure 100% balanced system where you can just jump into pvp no character improvement, then mmos are not for you.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Xandarous

[Calei]

Like I said above, pvpers want gear progression just like pvers. It brings a sense of accomplishment. If you want to play in a pure 100% balanced system where you can just jump into pvp no character improvement, then mmos are not for you.

 

That is false.

 

Gear progression doesn't belong in a PVP enviroment. It's a hamster wheel approach to game design. Guess what, you're the hamster.

 

PVP is competition.

 

Gear advantages in competitive enviroments makes ZERO sense. It creates irrational human behaviors such as BOTTING, AFK and EXPLOITATION. Vanity rewards makes more sense. Like items that change asthetics or titles and hot rod speeders.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Calei

[bamsmacked]

In an MMO where gear progression is a bases for character progression there will ALWAYS be a gear gap between those who have hit lvl cap first and those who hit it later. When you hit 50 expect to farm gear like everyone else.

 

I play republic and suffered through solo queues, many losses, and fighting people more geared then I am. Eventually I got geared and started beating all those people who got gear before me.

 

I see people complaining about being a new 50 and getting smashed. What about 6 months down the road? The new 50s then will have to deal with a gear gap also.

 

Gear gaps exist, work for your gear, and try to have fun doing it. I know I did.

 

Some people, actually a lot exploited the game to get Battlemaster gear way earlier than they should.

 

That is obviously unacceptable, is unfair and will cause players who play legit to just give up from frustration.

 

On my server so many on the Empire side glitched, exploited and farmed Republic for massive amounts of valor. Was a few guilds of people that pretty much exploited and ***** smacked us and now so many of them are decked out in BM gear meanwhile we have to spend hours and hours, and days just to get a few pieces of it and they're already decked out in nearly full BM because of exploits.

 

The end game content on my server has been destroyed due to exploits, they cheated to get all the gear and it's impossible for my faction to progress or even do anything on Ilum.. Republic stands no chance of winning and half the time no one even goes there. I had like 25 people in an ops squad earlier and we couldn't even get out of our main base because there was an entire sea of red names, probably 40+ Imperials just farming us. They already outnumber us a good 3-4 players to our 1. On peak hours our fleet has around 80-100 people, while theirs has 200+. And not to mention they have several guilds of exploiting and cheating *****s that bioware hasn't done crap about.

 

Legit Gear gaps, yeah I can understand that and it's part of it -- but when you cheat and exploit to get the best PvP gear in the game it's not right. Bioware needs to fix the problems and exploits in Ilum, and Warzones in general. They need to go back and see who exploited and roll back their gear and issue out weekly bans because it's unacceptable.

Edited January 29, 2012 by bamsmacked

[bamsmacked]

That is false.

 

Gear progression doesn't belong in a PVP enviroment. It's a hamster wheel approach to game design. Guess what, you're the hamster.

 

PVP is competition.

 

Gear advantages in competitive enviroments makes ZERO sense. It creates irrational human behaviors such as BOTTING, AFK and EXPLOITATION. Vanity rewards makes more sense. Like items that change asthetics or titles and hot rod speeders.

 

Actually I disagree... See WoW use to be somewhat like that. Except people in the best guilds would do their raids, get the best "PvE" and then wreck everyone else in PvP.

 

Having 2 separate sets of gear for PvP and PvE situations is necessary to keep balance I think, so it will prevent big guilds that do raids often from beating people down in PvP with their PvE gear that other people will probably obtain at slower rates.

 

I think expertise however needs to be looked into.

[Roak]

Like I said above, pvpers want gear progression just like pvers. It brings a sense of accomplishment. If you want to play in a pure 100% balanced system where you can just jump into pvp no character improvement, then mmos are not for you.

 

I don't require a 100% balanced system, gear progression gives a 100% predictable system, which is boring. Gear grind is mmolite, everyone gets guaranteed epics providing they put in x hours a week, whether x is 5 or 50 the epics are guaranteed. Time is the only variable, this makes for a dull endgame.

 

Also, this is my 12th year pvping in mmos, so I guess mmos are for me, but thanks for the suggestion.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Roak

[Cinc]

Since when does even playing field = dumbed down? If anything a gear gap dumbs down the game for those with the gear. What threat is someone to you with 5k fewer hp and does 15% less damage while taking 15% more damage? People saying that pvpers need a gear grind are not real pvpers. They need a crutch to make up for their deficiencies and will kick and scream if you try to take away that crutch.

[Rakimou]

TLDR: Gear over skill.

[Desgarden]

The problem is that it seems the only kind of progression in an mmo these days is gear. Actually there is no character development but the gear develops. That's somehow ironic imo.

 

But back to the main topic:

 

I don't mind if there is a kind of gear progression nor that they want to differentiate between pve and pvp gear to give pvpers an edge. However, it is not just an edge it is an auto-win. I am now valor rank 56 and it is not even funny how easily I destroy new 50s - abd I do not even have access to Battle Master gear.

 

The gap seems to be more like the Grand Canyon.

 

Imo it is lousy game design because it will lead to a very sado-masochistic experience:

1. With your geared character you destroy and dominate every new player who enters a WZ (that's the sado part)

 

2. With your ungeared alt which you leveled to 50 you get destroyed by geared 50s (that's the maso part)

 

 

This in itself is already bad but having a stat negate all skill a player brings with him into this fight is just phenomenal lousy because it becomes PvG - Player vs Gear.

 

 

Since when does even playing field = dumbed down? If anything a gear gap dumbs down the game for those with the gear. What threat is someone to you with 5k fewer hp and does 15% less damage while taking 15% more damage? People saying that pvpers need a gear grind are not real pvpers. They need a crutch to make up for their deficiencies and will kick and scream if you try to take away that crutch.

 

Exactly this.

[Arellea]

If you bothered to actually read, I said I was republic and I play a Jedi Guardian as Vigilance Spec (center tree).

 

To the people saying the gear gap is too large between a fresh and a geared 50. Sorry, but that is how it is. In WoW, a game I played for 7 years it was FAR FAR worse. Especially as more and more content came out. You still have to farm battlegrounds for your base pvp set.

 

In SWTOR, all you need to do is farm a few instance epics, maybe get some epic mods from dailys to not be completely useless. Stay hang around people who are geared in warzones and work with them. YES the champion bag system sucks but that is a SEPARATE issue. Do not blame the gear gap, blame the random system to get the gear.

 

ALSO, there are probably people on the other team JUST as under geared as you are. Seems everyone just wants things made easier for them.

 

Random bag loot is part of the problem, however a much larger issue is the lack of any easily obtainable entry level gear. yes there was a gear gap in wow, but there were crafted pvp alternatives with resil to get you started in the grind. BW needs to put back the blue level entry gear or just make centurion more accessible as an entry level set. As it stands now centurion is just a stop gap for the stupidity of the random bags so you get something useful despite countless champion duplicates.

[Xandarous]

This is turning into an argument between people who like gear progression in pvp and those who do not.

 

To the people complaining about the valor gain travesty in ilum, you need to understand that battlemaster gear is hardly an upgrade to champion gear and sometimes even a downgrade for some classes since they changed the stats on most of it.

 

I was far from the first lvl50 and I pvped quite a bit as I lvled up. I had to deal with people in full pvp gear and I did not try to go after them by myself. I worked with my team and the people who were higher lvl to get wins. When the 50s only bracket came out I was already geared but NOT from killing lowbies all day. There usually was a fairly even balance between the 2 sides as far as the number of 50s.

 

When my side lost it was from lack of skill. Sorry but all the gear in the world will not protect you from stupid.