Explain how Sages are OP...

[HettonVir]

I love the Grav Round/Tracer Missile supporters. Their argument is "BioWare forces me to use it! Its part of my debuff that triggers other stuff!". I play a Dirty Fighting gunslinger. I too, have an attack that supports my bleeds. I also have an armor debuff. Neither of those abilities crit for 3-3.5k. Neither of those abilities ever hit for 2k. Neither of those abilities are spammable. They both cost a pretty good amount of energy so it prevents me from using them over and over. But I guess GravRound and Tracer missile are just fine.

[BoDiE]

People are just complaining about sorcerers who actually make a gimp spec that has all the utilities they describe (shield mez, lightning root, etc). Those people aren't the ones that are topping damage or healing meter, but they are the most annoying in warzones.

 

People see a screenshot of a sorcerer topping damage meter doing 500K, they see a sage topping healing at 1mil, and they see those annoyingly specced sorcerer.

 

Combine all three, and you have a super sorcerer that has all those utilities, deal 500K damage, and heal for 1 million.

 

BAM. OP SORCERER!!

 

I run around wz and rarely get targeted when I am against low skilled players. Premades make a point of roflstomping me and rightly so. Know what? I last less than 10 seconds and only pull about 150k damage if I'm lucky.

[Drengir]

Actually, Sages are Consular.

 

Actually, Sorcs are Inquisitors and Sages are Consulars yes. But saying that Sage is the mirror to Sorc is 100% correct.

 

Fail mate! Get your facts straight before you correct someone?

[Naselus]

They just have to many abilitys available to them in one spec, there talent trees need a bit of reworking.

 

Actually, I think it's more that everyone's talent trees need a bit of reworking. The tier 1-3 stuff is usually a little to good, and the top 2 teirs of talents are usually a little too weak. This means that investing deep into any tree is generally a bad idea, and so makes hybrid specs the most powerful.

 

Once hybrid specs are better than deep single, you end up with a position where hybrid classes have an advantage, as their hybrid combine multiple roles rather than just single roles - so the popular jugg specs are all missing the top 2 tiers of skills; the powerful Sorc spec that has everyone QQing is 20/21, etc. Pure DPS classes just end up with split DPS types or methods, and so don't really benefit.

 

My solution would be to buff most 31-point talents, and either slightly nerf low-tier ones, or else move them higher up the tree.

[eroscastaldi]

The complaint about mercs is that they only need 1 ability.

again some stupid statment about BH, im using 9 ability ATL in pvp, so quit the crap, thats not true.

[Agroovesak]

They aren't OP.

 

As with EVERY MMO, bad keyboard turning ranged will never know how to deal with a stealth class opening on them.

 

I can utterly decimate Ops/Scoundrels on my Sorc or my Sage.

 

Its a L2P issue. Now if they replace Ops/Scoundrels with HerpLightningDerp or LOLROCKS they'd have a point.

 

I do love this "please don't nerf me" template. A great generic response for any overtuned class.

[Kwyn]

People are just complaining about sorcerers who actually make a gimp spec that has all the utilities they describe (shield mez, lightning root, etc). Those people aren't the ones that are topping damage or healing meter, but they are the most annoying in warzones.

 

People see a screenshot of a sorcerer topping damage meter doing 500K, they see a sage topping healing at 1mil, and they see those annoyingly specced sorcerer.

 

Combine all three, and you have a super sorcerer that has all those utilities, deal 500K damage, and heal for 1 million.

 

BAM. OP SORCERER!!

 

 

This.

 

Sages have three talent trees, any of which are fun and viable.

They can heal or choose one of two decent dps trees .

 

 

They don't have a single cookie cutter pvp spec. Most classes just go in to warzones with the same spec as every other member of their class. No one then tries to claim that an assault specd mercenary is also using talents deep in the bodyguard tree.

 

Not so for sage/sorc. If you are a healing sage for instance your dps is low and you lose almost all aoe and some of the control of the other trees.

 

Most other players are either ignorant of this or being disengenuous

[PloGreen]

I don't think it's a matter of pointing to any one thing and saying it's OP. I think the issue at hand is the toolkit BioWare gave the class to work with. It's quite expansive compared to other classes.

 

Yes, since it is the utility based class this is kind of the point. They also have crap burst and light armor, the bit people seem to leave out when they whine about them. They also cannot heal and do decent damage, its one or the other.

 

There is little point in arguing with people who don't even understand the mechanics or their own class, never mind one they dont play.

[Piriste]

1.I see the sorc and begin to charge up Grav Round to start my rotation.

2.Sorc interrupts me so I switch to some instant cast abilities.

3. Sorc proceedes to CC the crap out of me while I struggle to use my abilities (Most of which have a cast time or channel)

4. I die just as my resolve bar fills up.

 

This is supposed to happen. Commandos get great sustained dmg but when interrupted -> always dies.

 

It's what we have to live with to get our damage.

 

In my opinion the only thing that's wrong is either the cooldown of shields or the position of talents in the talenttrees.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Piriste

[Piriste]

Yes, since it is the utility based class this is kind of the point. They also have crap burst and light armor, the bit people seem to leave out when they whine about them. They also cannot heal and do decent damage, its one or the other.

 

There is little point in arguing with people who don't even understand the mechanics or their own class, never mind one they dont play.

 

You're in denial. Sorcs make plenty of kills in warzones - when a class is played by 60% of the player base there's always something wrong.

 

"But sorc has most interesting story" - yeah right, the amount of sorcs is increasing all the time and it's not the story that makes people to reroll.

 

FoTM = NERF.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Piriste

[GrandMike]

I run around wz and rarely get targeted when I am against low skilled players. Premades make a point of roflstomping me and rightly so. Know what? I last less than 10 seconds and only pull about 150k damage if I'm lucky.

 

As many said before: its L2P issue

[WookieBob]

I don't know why anyone would think a sage is op in this game. A main heal of 1.4 - 2.5 that usually gets interupted or someone runs around the many objects in the game that make them go LOS so a heal won't cast anyway just to start over again. Add in the cast lag prior to any heal hitting the target. Several fixes need to be addressed in the pvp aspect of things. Don't get me wrong, if I can get a main heal off, it is pretty good. But usually that only happens if I am way in the back trying not to get ganged up on.

 

becuase they are dumb, have no teamwork, tactics, no strategy, and are dumb. same deal as in every game since WARCRAP -can't beat it without facerolling on keyboard, QQ for nerfs on the forums

[Crimsonyoshi]

When people are talking about Sorcs/Sages being OP, they are probably referring to the DPS specs within PvP and not healing specifically.

 

Sorcs/Sages really just have everything. Insane damage, nice healing, bubbles that absorb 3k damage on a short cooldown, interrupts, force speed, and CC's out the Wazoo. Bioware just gave one class too much and it's becoming obvious by the amount of Sorcs you see in Warzones.

 

As a Gunnery Commando, fights with good Sorcs generally go like this:

 

1.I see the sorc and begin to charge up Grav Round to start my rotation.

2.Sorc interrupts me so I switch to some instant cast abilities.

3. Sorc proceedes to CC the crap out of me while I struggle to use my abilities (Most of which have a cast time or channel)

4. I die just as my resolve bar fills up.

 

If I do manage to get a Sorc low, they will use their instant whirlwind CC, bubble up and then sprint away to heal up.

 

Sorc/Sage is by far the best PvP class at the moment in my opinion. This tends to make the Republic and Empire imbalance even more apparent considering that Consulars have an arguably boring story and some of the ugliest of all the armor sets (re: Queen Amidala Drag Queen) which drive people away.

 

Sorry if this came off as a rant but I'm tired of getting steamrolled by all the Battlemaster Sorc premades on my server.

 

 

 

Playing as shadow infl spec sorcs are quite easy. Keep your finger on the interrupt skill, don't use it every 10 seconds, but any heal or any whirlwind cc they cast, stop with. Use stun and low slash to interrupt, as well as force wave.

 

Usually with all the procs on project, and force breach + the high crit and surge rating we can get, I have no problem taking down a sorc / sage.

[Kellindell]

Sorcs are OP.

 

Sages are Sorcs.

 

Thus, Sages are OP.

 

Transitive Property.

 

Yeah that isnt really correct because Sages are Sorcs.

 

Transitive property example would be more like

 

Since sorcs are OP...

 

Operatives can be Sorcs.

 

Sages can beat Operatives.

 

Thus Sages can beat Sorcs.

[Izriul]

They aren't OP.

 

As with EVERY MMO, bad keyboard turning melee will never know how to deal with a ranged class standing at 30+ meters.

 

I can utterly decimate Sorcs/Sages on my Jugg or my Sentinel.

 

Its a L2P issue. Now if they replace Sorc/Sage with HerpTarcerDerp or LOLGRAV they'd have a point.

 

Freaking DUMB thing to say.

 

When I'm running rings around someone and their just BACKPEDDLING their way to victory like oh so many ranged in this, there's a problem. Especially when I rotate every defensive cooldown, interrupt every heal/major cast and break their cast from running around/through them (as they continue to backpeddle snared). It's a disgusting sight and utterly embarrassing to see someone do it. It's so ezmode while spamming a couple OP abilities without any decent rotation.

 

But hey, idiots will always try to deny their own class isn't OP just to try and avoid the nerfback, only, it won't and it just makes them look desperate.

 

Never EVER take ANYTHING serious about what someone says about their own class.

 

There is a reason certain classes and ONLY certain classes keep getting brought up. Don't even think about trying to kid yourself it's because you're actually skilled and every other class isn't.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Izriul

[Cynan_Ski]

Never EVER take ANYTHING serious about what someone says about their own class.

 

Never take anything serious someone says about a class they don't play.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Cynan_Ski

[Cynan_Ski]

Also keeps getting brought up because as stated there is a crap ton of sorc / sages so odds are in favor that you were probally killed by that class

 

 

Honestly if there was 12 snipers in vs little me all the time. I would think snipers are op

"Why the **** do i die to sniper all the time" oh yea because the odds are agianst me

Edited January 27, 2012 by Cynan_Ski

[Halbe]

Never take anything serious someone says about a class they don't play.

 

Then how can a Sorc say they aren't over powered compared to other classes?

 

Goes both ways.

[Cynan_Ski]

Then how can a Sorc say they aren't over powered compared to other classes?

 

Goes both ways.

 

original qoute failed

[Acyu]

Freaking DUMB thing to say.

 

When I'm running rings around someone and their just BACKPEDDLING their way to victory like oh so many ranged in this, there's a problem. Especially when I rotate every defensive cooldown, interrupt every heal/major cast and break their cast from running around/through them (as they continue to backpeddle snared). It's a disgusting sight and utterly embarrassing to see someone do it. It's so ezmode while spamming a couple OP abilities without any decent rotation.

 

But hey, idiots will always try to deny their own class isn't OP just to try and avoid the nerfback, only, it won't and it just makes them look desperate.

 

Never EVER take ANYTHING serious about what someone says about their own class.

 

There is a reason certain classes and ONLY certain classes keep getting brought up. Don't even think about trying to kid yourself it's because you're actually skilled and every other class isn't.

 

1. You can't backpeddle because force lightning is a channel spell.

 

2. Everyone brings sorcerer up now that OP is getting nerfed is because sorcerers are everywhere and they got lightning. The hilarity is that NO ONE brought sorcerer up before, but now everyone has a sudden fascination with sorcerer after patch 1.1. Before it was really more of a "why isn't sage the exact mirror of sorcerer," not "sorcerer/sages are OP."

 

People just don't want to see so many sorcerers in their game, even though some of them are really assassins. They see these different sorcerers casting different things and having different utilities and they come on the forums and cry about it. Only a few people actually bother to do some basic research on the sorcerer spells and talent trees to see whether it is even possible to have all those things

 

All those things = top damage, top heals, bubble mez, instant tornado mez, lightning root, crazy dots, overpowered bubbles, etc.

 

Most of these crybabies/trolls have genetically engineered a super sorcerer that is capable of "being the best" at damage/healing/utility/survivability/control when a lot of these "bests" are really just bits and pieces of different sorcerers specced differently having a great games in different warzones.

 

People complain when one class only needs 1 ability to win (mercs), complain about one class that only needs 3 abilities to win (operatives), and complain about class that has too many abilities to use.

 

And despite so many champions and battlemasters coming out to say that sorcerers are pretty easy to kill at a geared level of play, people continue to cry about sorcerers because they are good sub-50, where caster classes are supposed to be good because they are usually the least level and gear-dependent.

[BradPiff]

1. You can't backpeddle because force lightning is a channel spell.

 

2. Everyone brings sorcerer up now that OP is getting nerfed is because sorcerers are everywhere and they got lightning. The hilarity is that NO ONE brought sorcerer up before, but now everyone has a sudden fascination with sorcerer after patch 1.1. Before it was really more of a "why isn't sage the exact mirror of sorcerer," not "sorcerer/sages are OP."

 

People just don't want to see so many sorcerers in their game, even though some of them are really assassins. They see these different sorcerers casting different things and having different utilities and they come on the forums and cry about it. Only a few people actually bother to do some basic research on the sorcerer spells and talent trees to see whether it is even possible to have all those things

 

All those things = top damage, top heals, bubble mez, instant tornado mez, lightning root, crazy dots, overpowered bubbles, etc.

 

Most of these crybabies/trolls have genetically engineered a super sorcerer that is capable of "being the best" at damage/healing/utility/survivability/control when a lot of these "bests" are really just bits and pieces of different sorcerers specced differently having a great games in different warzones.

 

People complain when one class only needs 1 ability to win (mercs), complain about one class that only needs 3 abilities to win (operatives), and complain about class that has too many abilities to use.

 

And despite so many champions and battlemasters coming out to say that sorcerers are pretty easy to kill at a geared level of play, people continue to cry about sorcerers because they are good sub-50, where caster classes are supposed to be good because they are usually the least level and gear-dependent.

 

 

Dont nerf me bro

[uadarth]

Who cares about the AOE heal - AOE knockback root is possibly the most broken ability in the game.

 

 

Well, AOE heal is important in pve since we have so few effective heals...

[Doxik]

When people are talking about Sorcs/Sages being OP, they are probably referring to the DPS specs within PvP and not healing specifically.

 

Sorcs/Sages really just have everything. Insane damage, nice healing, bubbles that absorb 3k damage on a short cooldown, interrupts, force speed, and CC's out the Wazoo. Bioware just gave one class too much and it's becoming obvious by the amount of Sorcs you see in Warzones.

 

As a Gunnery Commando, fights with good Sorcs generally go like this:

 

1.I see the sorc and begin to charge up Grav Round to start my rotation.

2.Sorc interrupts me so I switch to some instant cast abilities.

3. Sorc proceedes to CC the crap out of me while I struggle to use my abilities (Most of which have a cast time or channel)

4. I die just as my resolve bar fills up.

 

If I do manage to get a Sorc low, they will use their instant whirlwind CC, bubble up and then sprint away to heal up.

 

Sorc/Sage is by far the best PvP class at the moment in my opinion. This tends to make the Republic and Empire imbalance even more apparent considering that Consulars have an arguably boring story and some of the ugliest of all the armor sets (re: Queen Amidala Drag Queen) which drive people away.

 

Sorry if this came off as a rant but I'm tired of getting steamrolled by all the Battlemaster Sorc premades on my server.

 

This sums it up pretty good.

[uadarth]

Actually, Sorcs are Inquisitors and Sages are Consulars yes. But saying that Sage is the mirror to Sorc is 100% correct.

 

Fail mate! Get your facts straight before you correct someone?

 

No, I was right, but thanks.

[uadarth]

What I have gotten from this thread is that multi tree sages have it a bit easier, but fully healer speced like me are much weaker. I have also seen nothing argued against being 4 shot if ungeared. 3.5-4.5k damage a shot and the one heal being interrupted equals toast.