Mace Windu (and the Jedi order) made Darth Vader

[Shaddaq]

Hello,

 

It occurs to me that the Jedi were the primary driving force that moved Anakin to the Dark Side.

 

They asked him to spy on someone, which involved lying and treachery.

 

Then Mace Windu attempted to murder a prisoner instead of arresting him.

 

If the Jedi hadn't made these questionable decisions, it seems likely that Anakin would not have fallen at the pivotal moment when he did.

 

Indeed, at the moment that Anakin interfered with Mace Windu assassinating a prisoner, Mace was making a Dark choice and Anakin's choice could be easily deemed more morally correct.

[SupremeLegate]

True, but things had been manipulated my Darth Sidius for decades.

[customkb]

Incorrect. Yes, the Jedi aren't suppose to kill. However, they do kill when there is no other option. Sidious had, essentially, turned the Republic into a Dictatorship that he controlled. He had almost everyone, excluding the Jedi, under his control/influence. Windu, along with a few other Jedi, went to Sidious AFTER Anakin told them that he was a Sith and dangerous to the Republic/Jedi. They arrived there to take him into custody but Sidious tried to kill them. Windu determined that the only option was to kill him for the safety of the galaxy. That is the Jedi way and more a light side option. Verse, Anakin wanting to keep him alive so that he could learn the ways of the dark side to keep Padme from dying. He gave into his emotions which is the dark side way. Also, Anakin claimed he was defenseless, which he clearly was not. Now, you are correct about the Jedi trying to kill Sidious basically pushed Anakin over the edge. However, that was Sidious's plan since Anakin was under his influence.

[dargor-]

Anakin was an idiot for falling to palpatine's cliche "Oh I'm old and helpless" act.

 

Windu tells Anakin Palpatine is the dude that's been indirectly killing everybody for the last 20 years (including Qui-Gon, the man thats made Anakin's current life possible) but no, he's MA FRIIEEEND

 

/facepalm

 

Honeslty past episode 1 I couldn't stir any sympathy up towards the Anakin character, he's nothing more than some dumb emo teen with a temper.

Edited January 27, 2012 by dargor-

[Thorlas]

I blame Obi-Wan, if he treated Anakin the same way he did Luke instead of being such an over critical A-hole, Anakin would have never had to turn to Palpatine for guidance and a friendly shoulder. I firmly believe that if Qui-Gon had survived and trained Anakin, Vader would never have come to exist.

[XxZkoolxX]

I blame Obi-Wan, if he treated Anakin the same way he did Luke instead of being such an over critical A-hole, Anakin would have never had to turn to Palpatine for guidance and a friendly shoulder. I firmly believe that if Qui-Gon had survived and trained Anakin, Vader would never have come to exist.

 

I don't think the council should of every aloud him to be trained in the first place.

[DarylMusashi]

I don't think the council should have ever allowed him to be trained in the first place.

 

fixed

Edited January 27, 2012 by DarylMusashi

[bliapis]

Anakin was an idiot for falling to palpatine's cliche "Oh I'm old and helpless" act.

 

Windu tells Anakin Palpatine is the dude that's been indirectly killing everybody for the last 20 years (including Qui-Gon, the man thats made Anakin's current life possible) but no, he's MA FRIIEEEND

 

/facepalm

 

Honeslty past episode 1 I couldn't stir any sympathy up towards the Anakin character, he's nothing more than some dumb emo teen with a temper.

 

basically following the movies, you can accept Anakin's naivety. But watching clone wars, thats a different anakin you see: strong, clear minded, high up rank and battle hardened through numerous fights with sith, creatures and other villains.

 

According to the Clone Wars Anakin, he wasnt idiot. He just chose power over the monastic existance of the Jedi.

 

He wanted to save his beloved and for that he had to become strong. the strongest ever if he ever had a change to prevent Padme from dieing.

[fettpett]

basically following the movies, you can accept Anakin's naivety. But watching clone wars, thats a different anakin you see: strong, clear minded, high up rank and battle hardened through numerous fights with sith, creatures and other villains.

 

According to the Clone Wars Anakin, he wasnt idiot. He just chose power over the monastic existance of the Jedi.

 

He wanted to save his beloved and for that he had to become strong. the strongest ever if he ever had a change to prevent Padme from dieing.

 

exactly. At the time Palaptine and Mace fight, Anakin has been fighting the Clone War for over 10 years, hell he was on the Council as a Jedi Knight (granted it was because Palaptine requested it, they thought him strong enough for the position just didn't like Palaptine demanding that they do it), rarely if ever did that happen.

 

He was also under a great deal of stress and was in the middle of a moral dilemma after killing Douku at the prodding of Palaptine. Everyone else assumed he had been killed in a fair fight, which Anakin knew different. He knew he crossed a line and it was eating at him. On top of this he's dealing with the premonitions of Padame dying, which he's trying to prevent, but in doing so is causing her death. He stopped listening to her and thought his way was better, that power was better.

 

Anakin's fall is much more complicated than "Teh Jedai did it!!!!" or "He's emo fail douche".

[Mechavomit]

I always assumed that his fall was inevitable. He would still be Vader even if not discovered by the Jedi. Palpi was smart enough, he's have it figured out.

[MRCHalifax]

I blame Obi-Wan, if he treated Anakin the same way he did Luke instead of being such an over critical A-hole, Anakin would have never had to turn to Palpatine for guidance and a friendly shoulder. I firmly believe that if Qui-Gon had survived and trained Anakin, Vader would never have come to exist.

 

The thing is, Obi-Wan and Yoda basically had no idea whatsoever what to do with Luke and Leia.

 

At the end of Revenge of the Sith, the twins are split up and put into hiding. Not into hiding with the Jedi who might have a shot at protecting them against whatever might come, but with normal people. OK, fine. Maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan were still considering going out into the galaxy, trying to find and save other Jedi and get them to safety, etc. Hauling kids around would impede that.

 

But years past, they settled into their lives on Tatooine and Dagobah. The kids started getting older. At the age of five or six, if Yoda and Obi-Wan were to follow the traditions of the Order they should have been taken for Jedi training. Especially since it's not like Yoda and Obi-Wan were doing anything else at the time. They didn't. The children continued to grow up, blissfully unaware of their potential.

 

There's mention of Obi-Wan trying to deliver Anakin's lightsaber to Luke at one point, with Owen Lars shooing him off. Obi-Wan let himself be turned away, and Luke continued moisture farming and shooting wamp-rats in his T-16 back home. Leia became a Senator. The kids had grown up, they were in their late teens, when the Force finally started bringing things together.

 

Luke, chasing Anakin Skywalker's old droids, almost literally drops into Obi-Wan's lap. And when Obi-Wan cautiously brings up the idea of coming with him on a damn fool idealistic crusade, Luke brushes him off. Shortly thereafter, Luke returns home to find his entire family has been murdered.

 

At that point, Obi-Wan looks seriously haunted. He knows what happened last time a Skywalker had a family member murdered (by someone other than the Skywalker himself). But he figures that the Force has brought Luke to him for a reason. He starts trying to train Luke on the Falcon, and Luke is a quick learner. Then, on the Death Star, Obi-Wan confronts Vader again. He and Vader are fairly evenly matched. Obi-Wan might even be able to win again. But he doesn't want to win. He can't kill his friend again. And then he sees Luke watching the duel from across the hanger bay. He figures that this is his destiny; perhaps that Luke seeing Vader cut him down will prevent Luke from having the same kind of relationship with Vader that Vader did with Palpatine.

 

Flash forward a few years. Without further training, Luke's natural abilities are growing. He can perform minor telekinesis, enhance himself to improve his shooting and intuition, etc. Obi-Wan appears and sends him to Yoda. Yoda is even more reluctant than Obi-Wan was. He's afraid of training another Skywalker, particularly since Luke is a) way, way too much like his father, b) just as powerful as his father, c) way, way too old to begin the training. Yoda would probably have preferred Leia, if he had to choose between them, but either way he figures that no good could come of this. Obi-Wan basically brow-beats him into doing it, and Yoda starts to train Luke against his better judgment.

 

Luke begins his training, and Yoda starts to get even more frightened. Luke's ability to use the Force is growing exponentially. Lessons that should have taken years to be fully absorbed are taking days, or even just hours. In the space of a month, Luke goes from being barely able to sense the Force to being nearly a match for Vader. Yoda tries to keep Luke from getting cocky with the Cave test, and it helps. Later, another attempt to keep Luke humble almost backfires. Luke's X-Wing sinks under the water, and Yoda tells him to lift it out. Luke tries, and almost succeeds, and Yoda is bug-eyed with shock (seriously, watch his face as the X-Wing starts to come up, he's flabbergasted). Luke fails, and Yoda puts on his Serene Face, and lifts it out. Object lesson successful, but Yoda nearly screwed that one up too.

 

Then, Luke has his vision of the future. It's not that much different than when Anakin saw his mother in danger, and not that different from his vision of Padme. Naturally, Luke being Luke, he runs off to save Han, Leia, Chewie and Threepio.

 

Now, from Yoda's perspective:

-Boy has awesome strength in the Force, like his father? Check.

-Boy is reckless, like his father? Check.

-Boy has had his family murdered, like his father? Check.

-Boy has strong emotional attachments to people, like his father? Check.

-Boy started training too late, like his father? Double check.

 

Luke is basically on the exact same path that his father was, except this time around everything is even worse. Obi-Wan and Yoda are watching Luke go off to Bespin, and their dialog can basically be summed up as:

 

Obi-Wan: FML.

Yoda: Well, there's still Leia.

 

Luke survives Bespin, spends some amount of time thinking about how everyone has lied to him but Vader, and then decides to forgive Yoda and Ben. By letting Luke go off and do the right thing, rather than trying to hold him back like they did Anakin, Luke's fall to the dark side was essentially averted. Luke comes back to Yoda on Dagobah, and essentially tells Yoda what he's going to do. That is to say, walk directly into the situation Anakin was in during Revenge of the Sith.

 

Obi-Wan and Yoda's response?

Yoda: FML.

Obi-Wan: FML.

 

Luke goes through with it anyways. He doesn't fall to the Dark Side. The only lure for him is in protecting his friends, and he sees where the Dark Side got Anakin. He rejects the Dark Side, Anakin saves Luke, the Emperor dies. The Imperial fleet falls apart and the rebels win.

 

Luke essentially rejected every trapping of the old Jedi Order, and just kept the most important single idea: don't be a dick. It wasn't Mace Windu that drove Anakin to the Dark Side, he was just there for the final push. It was Obi-Wan and Yoda that did it, trying to force their notion of the Jedi mindset on Anakin.

 

Jedi teachings are periodically watered down, sanitized, to a bland monastic philosophy that's designed to prevent people from falling to the Dark Side. It works for most. The problem is, it doesn't work for all. They didn't work for Anakin. They would not have worked for Luke. The best possible version of the Jedi Knight is one who says "Emotion, yet peace; passion, yet serenity." Take advantage of emotions, but don't let them drive you to do anything stupid.

 

From a the big perspective, the whole Jedi/Sith War that compromises the six Star Wars films is basically the Force saying "You're doing it wrong!" to the Jedi (and the Sith, for that matter).

[Mephet]

Lots a stuff.

 

I like your perspective. A+ from me.

 

I Guess you could argue that the jedi's need for control was as damaging as the sith's need for dominance.

[DNA_Cowboy]

I like your perspective.

 

 

Damn, I do too! Well put, MRCHalifax.

Edited January 27, 2012 by DNA_Cowboy

[Jenovan]

Pure Win

 

Just wanted to say that was probably one of the coolest things I've ever read on these forums. Hats off!

[MRCHalifax]

Thank you. I was worried I'd be met with "TL, DR."

 

 

 

I like your perspective. A+ from me.

 

I Guess you could argue that the jedi's need for control was as damaging as the sith's need for dominance.

 

For the Jedi, I think that it's about trying to be safe. Some emotions lead to the Dark Side. Even good emotions - love, faith, hope, etc - can lead to the Dark Side when hopes are broken, faith is betrayed, or love is lost. The Jedi fear the consequences of emotion, and so they're determined to eliminate the danger before it rears its ugly head.

 

For the Sith, it's the opposite problem. No concern for safety. And since generally speaking, its easier to dwell on and focus anger, fear, hatred, bitterness, etc, they end up as angry, bitter nasty people. That's even worse, in the short and the long run.

 

 

There's a scene in the Star Wars Expanded Universe novel Vision of the Future that I think pretty much perfectly sums up how a Jedi like Luke would deal with someone he cared about being killed.

 

"No," he whispered aloud, his pulse pounding in his ears. Once again, a person he'd cared for...

 

"No!" he bit out between clenched teeth, the agony in his heart swirling into something dark and deadly as the pain turned into a growing fury. Deal out casual death, would they? If death was what they wanted, he would show them just what death looked like. In his mind's eye he saw himself striding down the spiral slideway, throwing the aliens aside like sand dolls, their bodies slamming against the unyielding black stone and dropping crumpled to the floor. His lightsaber would flash through their ranks, cutting through weapons and bodies and leaving more death in its wake.

 

His lightsaber.

 

He looked down at the lightsaber in his hand. Not the weapon he himself had made in the oppressive heat of the Tatooine desert, but the one his father had made so many years before. The weapon he had given to Mara ...

 

He took a deep breath, letting go of the rage and hatred, a cold shiver running through him as he realized the magnitude of what he had almost done. Once again, he had come to the very bring of giving in to the dark side. Had nearly surrendered to hatred and the lust for revenge, and the overwhelming desire to use his power for his own selfish ends.

 

If you honor what they fight for ... Master Yoda's words echoed hauntingly through his mind. "All right," he murmured aloud. No, he would not avenge whatever had happened to Mara, at least not for vengeance's sake. But he would seek out the truth of her fate.

 

Right there, you have the very human reaction of "the woman I'm falling in love with has been killed, and I have the power to avenge myself on her killers" meeting the "that would be a bad idea, not all all what she or I stand for." Which leads directly to the "I'll investigate, and do the right thing rather than what comes easiest for me emotionally."

Edited January 27, 2012 by MRCHalifax

[Zantul]

Sidious and Darth vader saw them selves as saviours.

[Eldartank]

The thing is, Obi-Wan and Yoda basically had no idea whatsoever what to do with Luke and Leia.

 

At the end of Revenge of the Sith, the twins are split up and put into hiding. Not into hiding with the Jedi who might have a shot at protecting them against whatever might come, but with normal people. OK, fine. Maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan were still considering going out into the galaxy, trying to find and save other Jedi and get them to safety, etc. Hauling kids around would impede that.

 

But years past, they settled into their lives on Tatooine and Dagobah. The kids started getting older. At the age of five or six, if Yoda and Obi-Wan were to follow the traditions of the Order they should have been taken for Jedi training. Especially since it's not like Yoda and Obi-Wan were doing anything else at the time. They didn't. The children continued to grow up, blissfully unaware of their potential.

 

There's mention of Obi-Wan trying to deliver Anakin's lightsaber to Luke at one point, with Owen Lars shooing him off. Obi-Wan let himself be turned away, and Luke continued moisture farming and shooting wamp-rats in his T-16 back home. Leia became a Senator. The kids had grown up, they were in their late teens, when the Force finally started bringing things together.

 

Luke, chasing Anakin Skywalker's old droids, almost literally drops into Obi-Wan's lap. And when Obi-Wan cautiously brings up the idea of coming with him on a damn fool idealistic crusade, Luke brushes him off. Shortly thereafter, Luke returns home to find his entire family has been murdered.

 

At that point, Obi-Wan looks seriously haunted. He knows what happened last time a Skywalker had a family member murdered (by someone other than the Skywalker himself). But he figures that the Force has brought Luke to him for a reason. He starts trying to train Luke on the Falcon, and Luke is a quick learner. Then, on the Death Star, Obi-Wan confronts Vader again. He and Vader are fairly evenly matched. Obi-Wan might even be able to win again. But he doesn't want to win. He can't kill his friend again. And then he sees Luke watching the duel from across the hanger bay. He figures that this is his destiny; perhaps that Luke seeing Vader cut him down will prevent Luke from having the same kind of relationship with Vader that Vader did with Palpatine.

 

Flash forward a few years. Without further training, Luke's natural abilities are growing. He can perform minor telekinesis, enhance himself to improve his shooting and intuition, etc. Obi-Wan appears and sends him to Yoda. Yoda is even more reluctant than Obi-Wan was. He's afraid of training another Skywalker, particularly since Luke is a) way, way too much like his father, b) just as powerful as his father, c) way, way too old to begin the training. Yoda would probably have preferred Leia, if he had to choose between them, but either way he figures that no good could come of this. Obi-Wan basically brow-beats him into doing it, and Yoda starts to train Luke against his better judgment.

 

Luke begins his training, and Yoda starts to get even more frightened. Luke's ability to use the Force is growing exponentially. Lessons that should have taken years to be fully absorbed are taking days, or even just hours. In the space of a month, Luke goes from being barely able to sense the Force to being nearly a match for Vader. Yoda tries to keep Luke from getting cocky with the Cave test, and it helps. Later, another attempt to keep Luke humble almost backfires. Luke's X-Wing sinks under the water, and Yoda tells him to lift it out. Luke tries, and almost succeeds, and Yoda is bug-eyed with shock (seriously, watch his face as the X-Wing starts to come up, he's flabbergasted). Luke fails, and Yoda puts on his Serene Face, and lifts it out. Object lesson successful, but Yoda nearly screwed that one up too.

 

Then, Luke has his vision of the future. It's not that much different than when Anakin saw his mother in danger, and not that different from his vision of Padme. Naturally, Luke being Luke, he runs off to save Han, Leia, Chewie and Threepio.

 

Now, from Yoda's perspective:

-Boy has awesome strength in the Force, like his father? Check.

-Boy is reckless, like his father? Check.

-Boy has had his family murdered, like his father? Check.

-Boy has strong emotional attachments to people, like his father? Check.

-Boy started training too late, like his father? Double check.

 

Luke is basically on the exact same path that his father was, except this time around everything is even worse. Obi-Wan and Yoda are watching Luke go off to Bespin, and their dialog can basically be summed up as:

 

Obi-Wan: FML.

Yoda: Well, there's still Leia.

 

Luke survives Bespin, spends some amount of time thinking about how everyone has lied to him but Vader, and then decides to forgive Yoda and Ben. By letting Luke go off and do the right thing, rather than trying to hold him back like they did Anakin, Luke's fall to the dark side was essentially averted. Luke comes back to Yoda on Dagobah, and essentially tells Yoda what he's going to do. That is to say, walk directly into the situation Anakin was in during Revenge of the Sith.

 

Obi-Wan and Yoda's response?

Yoda: FML.

Obi-Wan: FML.

 

Luke goes through with it anyways. He doesn't fall to the Dark Side. The only lure for him is in protecting his friends, and he sees where the Dark Side got Anakin. He rejects the Dark Side, Anakin saves Luke, the Emperor dies. The Imperial fleet falls apart and the rebels win.

 

Luke essentially rejected every trapping of the old Jedi Order, and just kept the most important single idea: don't be a dick. It wasn't Mace Windu that drove Anakin to the Dark Side, he was just there for the final push. It was Obi-Wan and Yoda that did it, trying to force their notion of the Jedi mindset on Anakin.

 

Jedi teachings are periodically watered down, sanitized, to a bland monastic philosophy that's designed to prevent people from falling to the Dark Side. It works for most. The problem is, it doesn't work for all. They didn't work for Anakin. They would not have worked for Luke. The best possible version of the Jedi Knight is one who says "Emotion, yet peace; passion, yet serenity." Take advantage of emotions, but don't let them drive you to do anything stupid.

 

From a the big perspective, the whole Jedi/Sith War that compromises the six Star Wars films is basically the Force saying "You're doing it wrong!" to the Jedi (and the Sith, for that matter).

 

This has got to be the most brilliant and intelligent description of the Star Wars saga I have ever seen in my entire life! If there is ever a remake of the 6 Star Wars movies, I nominate you to be the director and executive producer. Seriously, I really enjoyed reading your post!

 

[XjediXrf]

In RoTS Mace clearly said,"You are under arrest."

Plus,He leade both sides in the war,making him entirely responsible for it.

[WildSide]

the thing is, obi-wan and yoda basically had no idea whatsoever what to do with luke and leia.

 

At the end of revenge of the sith, the twins are split up and put into hiding. Not into hiding with the jedi who might have a shot at protecting them against whatever might come, but with normal people. Ok, fine. Maybe yoda and obi-wan were still considering going out into the galaxy, trying to find and save other jedi and get them to safety, etc. Hauling kids around would impede that.

 

But years past, they settled into their lives on tatooine and dagobah. The kids started getting older. At the age of five or six, if yoda and obi-wan were to follow the traditions of the order they should have been taken for jedi training. Especially since it's not like yoda and obi-wan were doing anything else at the time. They didn't. The children continued to grow up, blissfully unaware of their potential.

 

There's mention of obi-wan trying to deliver anakin's lightsaber to luke at one point, with owen lars shooing him off. Obi-wan let himself be turned away, and luke continued moisture farming and shooting wamp-rats in his t-16 back home. Leia became a senator. The kids had grown up, they were in their late teens, when the force finally started bringing things together.

 

Luke, chasing anakin skywalker's old droids, almost literally drops into obi-wan's lap. And when obi-wan cautiously brings up the idea of coming with him on a damn fool idealistic crusade, luke brushes him off. Shortly thereafter, luke returns home to find his entire family has been murdered.

 

At that point, obi-wan looks seriously haunted. He knows what happened last time a skywalker had a family member murdered (by someone other than the skywalker himself). But he figures that the force has brought luke to him for a reason. He starts trying to train luke on the falcon, and luke is a quick learner. Then, on the death star, obi-wan confronts vader again. He and vader are fairly evenly matched. Obi-wan might even be able to win again. But he doesn't want to win. He can't kill his friend again. And then he sees luke watching the duel from across the hanger bay. He figures that this is his destiny; perhaps that luke seeing vader cut him down will prevent luke from having the same kind of relationship with vader that vader did with palpatine.

 

Flash forward a few years. Without further training, luke's natural abilities are growing. He can perform minor telekinesis, enhance himself to improve his shooting and intuition, etc. Obi-wan appears and sends him to yoda. Yoda is even more reluctant than obi-wan was. He's afraid of training another skywalker, particularly since luke is a) way, way too much like his father, b) just as powerful as his father, c) way, way too old to begin the training. Yoda would probably have preferred leia, if he had to choose between them, but either way he figures that no good could come of this. Obi-wan basically brow-beats him into doing it, and yoda starts to train luke against his better judgment.

 

Luke begins his training, and yoda starts to get even more frightened. Luke's ability to use the force is growing exponentially. Lessons that should have taken years to be fully absorbed are taking days, or even just hours. In the space of a month, luke goes from being barely able to sense the force to being nearly a match for vader. Yoda tries to keep luke from getting cocky with the cave test, and it helps. Later, another attempt to keep luke humble almost backfires. Luke's x-wing sinks under the water, and yoda tells him to lift it out. Luke tries, and almost succeeds, and yoda is bug-eyed with shock (seriously, watch his face as the x-wing starts to come up, he's flabbergasted). Luke fails, and yoda puts on his serene face, and lifts it out. Object lesson successful, but yoda nearly screwed that one up too.

 

Then, luke has his vision of the future. It's not that much different than when anakin saw his mother in danger, and not that different from his vision of padme. Naturally, luke being luke, he runs off to save han, leia, chewie and threepio.

 

Now, from yoda's perspective:

-boy has awesome strength in the force, like his father? Check.

-boy is reckless, like his father? Check.

-boy has had his family murdered, like his father? Check.

-boy has strong emotional attachments to people, like his father? Check.

-boy started training too late, like his father? Double check.

 

Luke is basically on the exact same path that his father was, except this time around everything is even worse. Obi-wan and yoda are watching luke go off to bespin, and their dialog can basically be summed up as:

 

Obi-wan: Fml.

Yoda: Well, there's still leia.

 

Luke survives bespin, spends some amount of time thinking about how everyone has lied to him but vader, and then decides to forgive yoda and ben. by letting luke go off and do the right thing, rather than trying to hold him back like they did anakin, luke's fall to the dark side was essentially averted. luke comes back to yoda on dagobah, and essentially tells yoda what he's going to do. That is to say, walk directly into the situation anakin was in during revenge of the sith.

 

Obi-wan and yoda's response?

Yoda: Fml.

Obi-wan: Fml.

 

Luke goes through with it anyways. He doesn't fall to the dark side. The only lure for him is in protecting his friends, and he sees where the dark side got anakin. He rejects the dark side, anakin saves luke, the emperor dies. The imperial fleet falls apart and the rebels win.

 

Luke essentially rejected every trapping of the old jedi order, and just kept the most important single idea: Don't be a dick. It wasn't mace windu that drove anakin to the dark side, he was just there for the final push. It was obi-wan and yoda that did it, trying to force their notion of the jedi mindset on anakin.

 

Jedi teachings are periodically watered down, sanitized, to a bland monastic philosophy that's designed to prevent people from falling to the dark side. It works for most. The problem is, it doesn't work for all. They didn't work for anakin. They would not have worked for luke. The best possible version of the jedi knight is one who says "emotion, yet peace; passion, yet serenity." take advantage of emotions, but don't let them drive you to do anything stupid.

 

From a the big perspective, the whole jedi/sith war that compromises the six star wars films is basically the force saying "you're doing it wrong!" to the jedi (and the sith, for that matter).

 

outstandingly magnificent!!!!

[Murasakikitsune]

I've always been of the opinion that Qui-Gon, had he lived, would have managed to keep Anakin on the Light Side. He understood a great deal about human emotion, loss, and how to deal with it. The council worked directly against Anakin's feelings, but Qui-Gon would have worked with him.

[Dionlight]

Epic post

 

Whoa.....great post bro.

[Shaddaq]

Hello,

 

I very much enjoyed the replies and brilliant interpretation.

[BuddahsPalm]

Best thing I have read on these, or any other forums for years.

 

Thanks MRCHalifax.

 

P.S. Bump for great justice

[Papineau]

Gosh MRCHalifax said it all.

 

What a magnificent summary and honestly it almost closes the deal with this topic.

 

I'm a fan of the movies and the games obviously but I never took the time to investigates the book with Luke new order and such. Does he modifies the jedi code to his way of life? There is for sure a part of the answer in those books

[ShadoeWrayth]

I've always been of the opinion that Qui-Gon, had he lived, would have managed to keep Anakin on the Light Side. He understood a great deal about human emotion, loss, and how to deal with it. The council worked directly against Anakin's feelings, but Qui-Gon would have worked with him.

 

Except that Qui-Gon (the first thing Anakin gets to see as "The Jedi Order") is a rebellious, lying, cheating, thief... He lied to the Gungans a few times just to get what he wanted, Cheated Watto a couple times (once even using the force to cheat), and attempted to outright steal the part for the ship from Watto by using the force to MAKE him take absolutely worthless republic credits-he may as well have attempted to break in at night and just take it (when he wasn't able to, he fell back on plan B - CHEAT)... Qui-Gon was FAR from a good role model, I am amazed Obi-Wan turned out ANYTHING like he did...