yukirshiro Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I would prefer they buff the damage potential of other tank specs instead of nerfing PT, but there's something seriously wrong with the disparity. Part of it is the fact that a tank spec PT can do decent ranged damage where the other tank classes really need to be in melee range. But part of it just has to do with the trees and stances. A jugg for example gimps damage potential by using defensive stance because of reduced rage generation, and the jugg tank tree has very little in terms of significant dps. PT on the other hand gets a hugely buffed shockstrike and pull + root that makes it easy to bring targets to you and therefore stay within guard range while still doing very good dps. The upshot is that a powertech can play guardbot without losing much effectiveness, but the other tanks really become a one trick pony. TL:DR: Tank spec PT can still dps effectively, the other tanks can't. This makes playing a PT tank much more viable in pvp than any other. Edited January 26, 2012 by yukirshiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddim Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Dunno why they gave jugs/guards a huge negative while in defensive stance while PT/Vans get only positives :/, I dont want PT/Van nerfed though but rather jug/guard buffed. Edited January 26, 2012 by Moddim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I dont want PT/Van nerfed though but rather jug/guard buffed. Agreed. Although they need to find some way to do it high enough in the tank tree that you can't combo it with the ridiculous sweep damage from a dps jugg spec. Or, ideally they would nerf sweep/smash synergy and replace it with enhanced class-wide dps capability. Edited January 26, 2012 by yukirshiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 TL:DR: Tank spec PT can still dps effectively, the other tanks can't. This makes playing a PT tank much more viable in pvp than any other. All you are really saying is "I don't know how to spec/play my juggernaut effectively". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysseus Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yeah but one trick pony may still win at the end of the day ; ). The importance here is can they help their team in other significant ways ... answer is yes. Other tanks got perks that PT do not have. Their DPS when built as tank is pretty poor. Its hard to tell at first sight a dps PT or a tank PT. I remember as tank shadow having a face-off with a similarly geared tank BH. It resulted in a terrible face slapping match that only ended when someone came to our shamefull rescue. Lesson BH dps as tank is sad too. Tank dmg is mosly AE based utility skills with a couple high dmg on CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 All you are really saying is "I don't know how to spec/play my juggernaut effectively". Yes and no. You can play jugg effectively with a dps tree spec for your 8k smash crits. But that isn't a tank spec. But you don't have the option a PT does to spec tank tree and be an effective guardbot AND have good dps. It's one or the other. PT basically can get all the good of tank spec without any of the minuses the jugg has to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I believe you're confused about Shield tech-specific abilites. DPS spec'd power techs have decent ranged ability; shield techs have the basic bounty hunter ranged abilities that max out 1/4 of your max heat per click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Shadow weapon damage is reduced by 5% in their tank stance too, and Force Breach turns into a crappy move you wouldn't even use in most of PvE (and totally worthless in PvP). LOL at AoE that does 400 damage on 15sec cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Lesson BH dps as tank is sad too. No it isn't. You fought an idiot. PT has extremely viable dps even in tank stance with a tank spec. Jugg just doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Additionally; GETOVERHERE ...ALLYOUCAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 PT basically can get all the good of tank spec without any of the minuses the jugg has to take. We will just have to disagree on that. The only situation where this may appear to be true is if a jugg has guard turned on and the pt doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I believe you're confused about Shield tech-specific abilites. DPS spec'd power techs have decent ranged ability; shield techs have the basic bounty hunter ranged abilities that max out 1/4 of your max heat per click. See fix. "recent" was a typo for "decent." PT have decent 30m dps capability and pretty good 10M capability. The 30m capability is obviously nothing special but it's a hell of a lot better than anything you get as an assassin or jugg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 We will just have to disagree on that. The only situation where this may appear to be true is if a jugg has guard turned on and the pt doesn't. wut That's the complete opposite of reality. Jugg pays a much higher price to be a guardbot than PT does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Classes are not meant to be the same, not even equal. It takes dun dun, different strokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Classes are not meant to be the same, not even equal. I see. Very convincing argument. Like I said, I'd rather not see a PT nerf. But there is clearly something out of whack with tank spec PVP viability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 See fix. "recent" was a typo for "decent." PT have decent 30m dps capability and pretty good 10M capability. The 30m capability is obviously nothing special but it's a hell of a lot better than anything you get as an assassin or jugg. comparing ranged to melee, ranged is always better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Assassins can get Death Field in tank specs, which is 30m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Agreed. Although they need to find some way to do it high enough in the tank tree that you can't combo it with the ridiculous sweep damage from a dps jugg spec. Or, ideally they would nerf sweep/smash synergy and replace it with enhanced class-wide dps capability. so while you agree they shouldnt be nerfed, you then suggest a crippling nerf to the current meta, nice the force sweep build isn't used because its OP. its used because the other 4 trees have 3 *** trees and 1 meh tree for knights/warriors Edited January 26, 2012 by bicuspid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 wut That's the complete opposite of reality. Jugg pays a much higher price to be a guardbot than PT does. ok let me type slower. The only time that I can see a pt TANK having better dmg than a Jugg TANK is if the jugg is guarding while the PT is NOT Besides you are trying to compare a melee vs a ranged. The ranged ALWAYS appears to be doing more damage because they don't have to close the gap. Whatever, its pointless trying to convince a crusader that they are barking up the wrong tree. Have fun trying to prove an apple is better than an orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsane Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Assassins can get Death Field in tank specs, which is 30m. If they give up wither, which is a pretty hefty sacrifice. Aoe slow on 7.5s cd is pretty hard to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindianajones Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) /shrug I actually think my Guardian does pretty good damage in Defense spec. It's starting to become my favorite go-to PvP build. It's more fun than Focus (though the damage is lower), has a really nice stun, and built in increased survivability. Vengeance just seems focus starved and doesn't "feel" like the damage is there. I don't really see Powertech/Vanguard as being an issue. My brother plays a tank-spec Vanguard and I'm just as (or more) useful in PvP, and can easily match or beat his damage in warzones. I've just been rolling lately with offensive gear in defensive spec and doing pretty damn well. Edited January 26, 2012 by vindianajones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agroovesak Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Juggs have significantly more survival than PTs in pvp, have quite a bit more cc, have the ability to get real self healing, and have a better tool for keeping their teammates alive. They are also not hampered by shielding mechanics for resource management and dps as well as having less talents devoted to useless tank stats. I'd say that's a pretty good tradeoff. PVP tankwise it's pretty much sins>juggs>pt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 If they give up wither, which is a pretty hefty sacrifice. Aoe slow on 7.5s cd is pretty hard to give up. Well, apparently the ability to do damage from 30m is very important to some people. I'm assuming Powertechs don't have any hard hitting abilities at the 30m range, so comparing that to Death Field sounds about right. I briefly lookeda t their talents/skills and don't see anything that looks particularly intimidating at the 30m range, and Assassins have plenty of options once you get to 10m. I certainly don't recall ever seeing a PT take up a sniping position and shoot people from 30m like a Merc/Sniper/Sorc would, so I assume they're not a threat from 30m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwynde Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I see. Very convincing argument. Like I said, I'd rather not see a PT nerf. But there is clearly something out of whack with tank spec PVP viability. Maybe you should be a little more specific, because I am not seeing much of difference dps wise between my PT full tank spec and my guildmates Jugg tank. Similarly geared we were both doing crap dps. Sometimes he was higher sometimes I was. Thing is now we are both swapping tank gear for dps gear and its making a really big difference with no noticeable downside except a slightly smaller health pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliglath Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Juggs have significantly more survival than PTs in pvp, have quite a bit more cc, have the ability to get real self healing, and have a better tool for keeping their teammates alive. They are also not hampered by shielding mechanics for resource management and dps as well as having less talents devoted to useless tank stats. I'd say that's a pretty good tradeoff. PVP tankwise it's pretty much sins>juggs>pt. really? we have to spec in our stun, we dont have a knockback to push ppl away if we are ganked, we dont have a +armor talent we dont have a +endurance talent we dont have anything other than 2 ccs ( one cc more than the rest and we have spec for both of them while the rest of the ppl have it base line ) and if thats not enough we cant pull ppl into our range wich makes things pretty boring on illum, if you want to attack you need to charge into the mob that is the enemy faction where you will be oblitarated in seconds instead of pulling someone to YOUR mob like the assa and the pt :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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