world first 10k crit?

[mandrillagon]

Yeah we all know commandos need grav round nerfed at least as hard as scoundrels were nerfed to bring balance to pvp classes. Also commandos need a longer cooldown on their self healing. Scoundrels got a hard nerf in two of their top tier abilities so its not unreasonable to nerf a several of the commandos perks that make them obscenely opverpowered right now.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I stand corrected, it is possible that poor guy didn't have any pvp gear. This changes little, though. Operatives still couldn't do that kind of damage pre-1.1.

 

Let's see :

 

Ops/Scoundrel : Stealthed, 3s knockdown followed by 2-3 attacks totaling over 10k with crits, so 4.5s at most with nothing the target can do if CC breaker not available, restealth and finish if needed.

 

Guardian : Always targetable, needs 4s to setup the damage boost. Needs to be further than 10m to Leap, so we are at 5.5s already (in a perfect scenario, almost never happens) and finally can use his skill for maximum output if he was not stunned or snared and the target is still in range after the Leap. Once done, most likely everyone will target him into oblivion, no combat stealth to flee.

 

See a difference?

 

I'm not saying the Guardian attack is not powerful, but compared to the OP Ops/Scoundrel combo with extra vanish, it's nothing. It can be countered by anyone by simply not standing still without requiring a 2m cooldown skill that was probably used 30s ago already.

 

PS : as pointed further down, this is pre-patch with full buff stacking, now it's about 6k max.

Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Biboonz]

i'm not going to cry nerf on any class , I am actually fine with ops/scoundrels as they are and i'm against all sorts of nerfs.

 

I'm just going to say this particular spec revolves around using that skill , and for it to do this kind of damage , you have :

1. to spec accordingly , making you only good at this

2. it requires a lot of setup ( 4 'dot' tics + a charge within a short time frame )

3. it requires the target to be really close as the range of that aoe is really short. ( tanks have it easier with their aoe snare though )

 

I tried that spec as a marauder , it sure made big numbers but i didn't feel as efficient and didn't contribute as much for the group as in the other specs, where i did less overall maybe but only single target , not some aoe that could be healed. Knowing how it works its very easy to avoid it as well , as if you're a bit observant you see the guy setting up.

[Ashanor]

That's pre patch. Notice all the stacking buffs? In any case, plenty of people did that pre patch, no big surprise.

[Ashanor]

I stand corrected, it is possible that poor guy didn't have any pvp gear. This changes little, though. Operatives still couldn't do that kind of damage pre-1.1.

 

Erm, yes they could. You have no idea what you are talking about. There are countless videos and screenshots of Shoot First and the Op equivalent hitting for 9.5k+, only it was then followed by 7k, 5k, 6k etc.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ashanor

[Supercaptain]

Erm, yes they could. You have no idea what you are talking about. There are countless videos and screenshots of Shoot First and the Op equivalent hitting for 9.5k+, only it was then followed by 7k, 5k, 6k etc.

 

Link the video or you are full of ****.

 

(I know you won't find a video with that sort of damage timeline)

[Chaos_Distortion]

Also, please stop posting pre-1.1 screenshots where damage numbers that high aren't possible anymore. The Guardian in this screenshot was taking advantage of two things that were removed in Patch 1.1:

 

1. He is stacking Expertise pickup buff and Adrenals, along with multiple other buffs, which isn't possible anymore.

 

2. He is doing this 10k hit on a low level player that is most likely in the 10-30 range. This isn't possible anymore due to level 50 brackets.

 

Of course a Guardian's strongest hitting ability will hit that hard with every buff possible on a gray level 20 enemy.

 

I wish these old screenshots would just be deleted or threads closed instantly that involve them.

Scoundrels/Operatives said the same thing to you guys and you simply loled at them while applauding Bioware on their decision to nerf them. So don't expect sympathy from scoundrels/operatives.

[hdrain]

Let's see :

 

Ops/Scoundrel : Stealthed, 3s knockdown followed by 2-3 attacks totaling over 10k, so 4.5s at most with nothing the target can do if CC breaker not available, restealth and finish if needed.

 

Guardian : Always targetable, needs 4s to setup the damage boost. Needs to be further than 10m to Leap, so we are at 5.5s already (in a perfect scenario) and finally can use his skill for maximum output if he was not stunned or snared and the target is still in range after the Leap. Once done, most likely everyone will target him into oblivion, no combat stealth to flee.

 

See a difference?

 

I'm not saying the Guardian attack is not powerful, but compared to the OP Ops/Scoundrel combo with extra vanish, it's nothing.

 

I'll bite.

 

So 4.5s for 10k for operatives (and yes, we're talking perfect scenario here, too)

 

5.5s for 14k for the guardian. Hm.

 

And if you assume that CC break is on CD, why not assume that vanish is as well? By the way, if you restealth and finish, you're dead, for the same reason the guardian would be ('most likely everyone will target him into oblivion, no combat stealth to flee.') And let me tell you, it takes way less time to drop an operative than a guardian.

 

Also, let me remind you, outside of 10m range ops are helpless. Zero speedup skills, zero gap closers, virtually zero DPS (autoattack).

[-Arcane-]

not world first, these a video from beta with 10k+

[Rancorzealot]

We guardians are not op, we actually have to wind up for that move. Not click once, but we have to have several buffs in place before we can do that. I have personally only hit over 9k, 10k must be nice That has to be on a character that has 0 to no Expertise though, because when I crit battlemasters It's usually around 5-7k

[Kakokun]

Scoundrels/Operatives said the same thing to you guys and you simply loled at them while applauding Bioware on their decision to nerf them. So don't expect sympathy from scoundrels/operatives.

 

Way to generalize everyone there.

[Noctournys]

I'll bite.

 

So 4.5s for 10k for operatives (and yes, we're talking perfect scenario here, too)

 

5.5s for 14k for the guardian. Hm.

 

And if you assume that CC break is on CD, why not assume that vanish is as well? By the way, if you restealth and finish, you're dead, for the same reason the guardian would be ('most likely everyone will target him into oblivion, no combat stealth to flee.') And let me tell you, it takes way less time to drop an operative than a guardian.

 

Also, let me remind you, outside of 10m range ops are helpless. Zero speedup skills, zero gap closers, virtually zero DPS (autoattack).

 

Difference is, Operatives/Smugglers can still do 10k in their 4.5 seconds of openers, WITHOUT stim stacking.

 

To get that 14k, he had to be:

 

attacking a low level target with no expertise

fully stim-adrenal-trinket-warzone buff stacked (no longer possible)

talented for THAT EXACT BUILD - it's a total one trick pony.

gear for THAT EXACT BUILD (+power, +surge)

 

After the 1.1 nerfs, that combo hits for.. 6-8k at most, and then that Guardian/Jugg is standing there swinging his basic attack to rebuild Rage/Focus, doing relatively pitiful damage.

 

After the 1.1 nerfs, Operatives were still hitting for 10+k in their opening 3 globals. People were still dying without being able to react. Thus, the further nerf.

 

And oh yeah... as an Operative/Scoundrel, if you didn't kill your target? run away and turn invisible. Then kill them at will. I feel the need to play World of Roguecraft Episode 2...

[Rapto]

Erm, yes they could. You have no idea what you are talking about. There are countless videos and screenshots of Shoot First and the Op equivalent hitting for 9.5k+, only it was then followed by 7k, 5k, 6k etc.

 

Also talk to any competent operative/scoundrel who had a decent amount of BM gear pre-1.1

and 10k+ was possible withought the marauder buff.

 

I have hit 10.3k and change a few times myself, and I believe that is the cap as I haven't heard of anything higher then that. (full biochem/red buffs and of course on light armor classes with 0 exp)

[Ashanor]

Link the video or you are full of ****.

 

(I know you won't find a video with that sort of damage timeline)

 

Well, I found this one in about 5 seconds on youtube, and I could find much better examples if I wanted to.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ica7SGhjFBw&feature=related

 

This guy isn't as geared as many or buffed as some were, but it still proves the point.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ashanor

[Ashanor]

Also talk to any competent operative/scoundrel who had a decent amount of BM gear pre-1.1

and 10k+ was possible withought the marauder buff.

 

I have hit 10.3k and change a few times myself, and I believe that is the cap as I haven't heard of anything higher then that. (full biochem/red buffs and of course on light armor classes with 0 exp)

 

That was my point.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I'll bite.

 

So 4.5s for 10k for operatives (and yes, we're talking perfect scenario here, too)

 

5.5s for 14k for the guardian. Hm.

 

And if you assume that CC break is on CD, why not assume that vanish is as well? By the way, if you restealth and finish, you're dead, for the same reason the guardian would be ('most likely everyone will target him into oblivion, no combat stealth to flee.') And let me tell you, it takes way less time to drop an operative than a guardian.

 

Also, let me remind you, outside of 10m range ops are helpless. Zero speedup skills, zero gap closers, virtually zero DPS (autoattack).

 

Guardian cannot vanish and finish, once it's done, it's done. No more trick. You have the choice to leave or stay and finish. Guardian doesn't.

 

Guardian doesn't have all the time in the world to look at the battlefield to choose his target, he has to act fast. He is a sitting duck when setting up his combo. You can just relax and pick the target you want. The perfect scenario is a rare occurrence, for you, it happens the majority of the time. In a 1v1 situation, your target cannot react and do anything if CC breaker is down. Anyone can avoid the Guardian Sweep by moving.

 

The guardian did 14k with full pre-patch buffs stacking. Ops/Scoundrel are still doing 10k+ combo without that. Guardian now hit for 6-7k at best.

 

It's a one trick poney, Guardian can only do that (and guard I guess). You can still heal, although it's gimped, it's always useful in a pinch.

 

Finally, Guardians never killed anyone full health in equal gear in those 6s. Plenty of Ops/Scoundrels were chaining kills during that era on ANYONE.

 

Don't even try to compare both of them in terms of who was the most broken. Ops/Scoundrel are far above even BH/Sorc/Guardian in terms of stupid stuff that should never have made it live to begin with.

 

I'm glad BW came around and is trying to fix it. Then they'll look at BH, Sorc and maybe Guardian/Sentinel too. So be it.

Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Phobieee]

No need to start crying about Jugg/Sentinel, or more so ignorantly put "Tank Class". Considering the ability delay on smash paired along with any form of movement or knockback makes it a strong, but unreliable attack.

 

Go read the "Fix Smash" thread and you can see all is not rainbows and sunshine.

[FalmeseReb]

I already posted this once....and people still do not get it. Force Sweep (Smash for Sith) will only hit that hard IF you have lots and lots of buffs up. The ability scales well off them but without them crits for 4-6k depending on amount of surge.

 

THIS IS A GLASS CANNON SPEC THOUGH. Hits hard but gets hit hard also!

 

So is Scoundrel!! lol

[-sasori]

It doesn't matter that he is stim stacking. Ops are getting nerfed for the same reason. Stim or no stims...they need a nerf. Remember the bar has been set at 9k in a single set of moves to get a nerf at this point.

 

So let them nerf games begin! Who else is on the nerf train?

 

Not Healers, we are safe (Got 30% nerf initially)

[Xandarous]

Well, I found this one in about 5 seconds on youtube, and I could find much better examples if I wanted to.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ica7SGhjFBw&feature=related

 

This guy isn't as geared as many or buffed as some were, but it still proves the point.

 

Yeah...Guards/Juggs were never even close to this sort of crazy. Yes they have one hard hitting move that only does that under multiple conditions. Ops/Scoundrels can hit hard all the time.

[hdrain]

Difference is, Operatives/Smugglers can still do 10k in their 4.5 seconds of openers, WITHOUT stim stacking.

 

To get that 14k, he had to be:

 

attacking a low level target with no expertise

fully stim-adrenal-trinket-warzone buff stacked (no longer possible)

talented for THAT EXACT BUILD - it's a total one trick pony.

gear for THAT EXACT BUILD (+power, +surge)

 

After the 1.1 nerfs, that combo hits for.. 6-8k at most, and then that Guardian/Jugg is standing there swinging his basic attack to rebuild Rage/Focus, doing relatively pitiful damage.

 

So... are you saying that 10k+4k attack became 6-8k attack after 1.1? Sorry, I find that hard to believe. Stim stacking did not result in 100% damage increase. In case you're referring to only the 10k part, then after 1.1 highest I was able to crit with my opener was 6k+. So still lower.

 

Also,

 

attacking a target without expertise - check

total one-trick pony - check

gear for that exact build - check

after 2 opening attacks standing there doing relatively pitiful damage - check.

 

And oh yeah... as an Operative/Scoundrel, if you didn't kill your target? run away and turn invisible. Then kill them at will. I feel the need to play World of Roguecraft Episode 2...

 

And oh yeah, as a Guardian, if you're 20m away from the target - just leap. As an operative - blow in-combat stealth or die.

[Abelf]

This could be a thread about Bioware giving away free ponies and people would still be in here ************ about Ops. They are getting nerfed, and you need to find a different purpose in life now.

 

Next, will you complain that Ops get to wield a gun AND a knife? I mean, seriously, who brings a knife and a gun to a QQ fight?

[Fenwich]

So... are you saying that 10k+4k attack became 6-8k attack after 1.1? Sorry, I find that hard to believe. Stim stacking did not result in 100% damage increase. In case you're referring to only the 10k part, then after 1.1 highest I was able to crit with my opener was 6k+. So still lower.

 

Also,

 

attacking a target without expertise - check

total one-trick pony - check

gear for that exact build - check

after 2 opening attacks standing there doing relatively pitiful damage - check.

 

 

 

And oh yeah, as a Guardian, if you're 20m away from the target - just leap. As an operative - blow in-combat stealth or die.

 

I'm confused, are you saying that his 10k sweep couldn't possibly come down to 6k after the patch, or the total dmg of his dot tick from force exhaustion + the sweep couldn't come to 6-8k after the patch?

 

Because, yeah, 15%+15% from expertise, +surge adrenal for like 20 (depending on your base surge, it bumps mine from 77 to 97%) is a 50% damage increase. Since it's a crit, that's an even bigger factor in the damage than you realize, it easily does 100% less damage now.

 

On an ungeared sorc, with my expertise or adrenal running, I can crit 6k on my sweep now. 6.1k at the most. Most geared sorcs it's 4.7kish. Anyone else it's less since armor. I've seen my exhaustion tick for 2k on it's last hit as well, so that's your 6-8k down from 14k. Pretty big difference.

[ThePedia]

http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/Boltswiki/?action=view&current=10k.jpg

[Nanotech]

http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/Boltswiki/?action=view&current=10k.jpg

 

That settles that.