Carnage for PvP is the most underrated spec

[Maxxacre]

I've noticed that most of the people on these forums have sort of gone through a trend in discussions of their favorite specs for the Marauder in PvP. Generally, a lot of people are complaining that this is a really weak class overall in PvP, which I think is extremely far from the truth. But I think a lot of that has to do with the specs people are using. Klinda put out a great video of Annihilation early on and I think that made a lot of people switch specs. It seems to me that most people were saying Rage was best for PvP at first, then a lot of people switched to Annihilation and generally view it as the best spec for PvP.

 

But most people have generally discounted Carnage as a spec entirely. People have flat out said it's garbage in general and won't give it a chance. At the same time, people are complaining about insufficient damage and say that they are getting kited too easily.

 

My advice is to check out the Carnage spec. I feel that it offers more for PvP than either Rage or Annihilation. The reason being is that, first of all, you get a 15% constant speed boost in combat. That's a really huge deal to prevent being kited. But in addition to that, Carnage offers the best control of all the specs. In the Carnage spec, Deadly Throw offers a 3 second immobilize and Ravage roots for the duration as well. Both these abilities do not significantly add to the resolve bar of the enemy either. So between Deadly Throw, Ravage, and Force Choke, in addition to the root with Force Charge, not having a stun doesn't quite matter as much. The advantages of this spec are most evident when fighting a ranged enemy who is trying to kite you, and when trying to keep someone on the fire pit in Huttball.

 

You move faster and have more control in this spec than any other. For those of you who think the Marauder is very weak in PvP, I highly suggest you try the Carnage spec. I feel that it's the most underrated spec for PvP right now, and I've been having a lot of success with it thus far. I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the matter for those of you who may have discounted the spec entirely and are disappointed with the Marauder in PvP. Try it out for a while... you may find a renewed sense of satisfaction with this class in PvP if you do.

[jaxxdragonan]

Can we see your Carnage build?

[DarthBoga]

i'd like to see your build, i use this

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::f14e2f3efe6fe3fe2fe4f6ef4ef8:

[Kodokai]

Ive played all three but each person is different(surprise?) each tree have their ups & downs. Only reason i switched from Carnage was the sheer boredom i felt smashing massacre.

[EasymodeX]

Carnage is terrible in pugs, which is 99% of the game atm.

 

Carnage is almost viable in premade vs. premade.

[Adill]

I really enjoy carnage for both pvp and pve. Havent even considered re-speccing.

[BrolleunHunter]

A person would be stating their opinion if he said carnage was a fun specialization. A person would show their lack of understanding the Marauder if he said carnage is a superior specialization, or even a good specialization.

 

Carnage has no survivability, and unbound or defensive roll do not make for a good argument. Carnage's damage is less in comparison to annihilation's and rage's output.

 

Annihilation is great in any situation.

 

Rage is superior in warzones, and good in pve.

 

Carnage is poor in both instances, and a one trick pony at best when it comes to damage output; which is very weak in comparison to annihilation and rage.

 

A skilled player can work with carnage, but that doesn't mean that player isn't handicapping themselves. Their is no fault in liking carnage's game play, but saying the specialization is competitive is a bad joke in and of itself, and a misnomer to anyone trying to learn the ins and outs of the marauder archetype.

 

I will put it as plainly as possible for those new to this crazy ride.

 

Carnage

 

Is

 

Marauder's

 

Weakest

 

Specialization

 

No

 

Ifs

 

Buts

 

Or

 

Ands

 

I have personally tested all the specializations to death, and I can say without a doubt that annihilation has the most damage, survivability, and mobility of the three specializations, and the only saving grace for rage is the amount of sheer bust the spec can put out. Yet rage is a predictable specialization and the tells it gives off are tooobvious. A skilled player can and will avoid smashes.

Edited January 25, 2012 by BrolleunHunter

[Caliban_Thule]

A person would be stating their opinion if he said carnage was a fun specialization. A person would show their lack of understanding the Marauder if he said carnage is a superior specialization, or even a good specialization.

 

Carnage has no survivability, and unbound or defensive roll do not make for a good argument. Carnage's damage is less in comparison to annihilation's and rage's output.

 

Annihilation is great in any situation.

 

Rage is superior in warzones, and good in pve.

 

Carnage is poor in both instances, and a one trick pony at best when it comes to damage output; which is very weak in comparison to annihilation and rage.

 

A skilled player can work with carnage, but that doesn't mean that player isn't handicapping themselves. Their is no fault in liking carnage's game play, but saying the specialization is competitive is a bad joke in and of itself, and a misnomer to anyone trying to learn the ins and outs of the marauder archetype.

 

I will put it as plainly as possible for those new to this crazy ride.

 

Carnage

 

Is

 

Marauder's

 

Weakest

 

Specialization

 

No

 

Ifs

 

Buts

 

Or

 

Ands

 

I have personally tested all the specializations to death, and I can say without a doubt that annihilation has the most damage, survivability, and mobility of the three specializations, and the only saving grace for rage is the amount of sheer bust the spec can put out. Yet rage is a predictable specialization and the tells it gives off are tooobvious. A skilled player can and will avoid smashes.

 

Annihilation has the best DPS on a stationary target.

 

Rage has the best burst

 

Carnage has the best time on target.

 

2 roots, a passive movement speed increase, and a root break. People who say Carnage is the weakest spec usually provide no evidence to that claim, just that "everyone knows this".

 

People seem to be regurgitating whatever they read on the forums without any thought or evidence.

 

Rage was "the" PvP spec for a while because a video smashing lowbies. Take what people say (like the guy above) especially on this forum with a grain of salt.

[Maxxacre]

Annihilation has the best DPS on a stationary target.

 

Rage has the best burst

 

Carnage has the best time on target.

 

2 roots, a passive movement speed increase, and a root break. People who say Carnage is the weakest spec usually provide no evidence to that claim, just that "everyone knows this".

 

People seem to be regurgitating whatever they read on the forums without any thought or evidence.

 

Rage was "the" PvP spec for a while because a video smashing lowbies. Take what people say (like the guy above) especially on this forum with a grain of salt.

 

^What he said.

 

This is a perfect example of how people are just perpetuating what they've heard or seen in lowbie smashing videos. To say that anyone who claims Carnage is a good spec lacks a fundamental understanding of the Marauder class... now that's just stupid.

[Feedori]

I've played both Carnage and Annihilation. The damage difference between the two seem, at best, negligible to me. Granted, I wasn't standing around counting all the numbers popping off the mobs head's in either case, but generally speaking champions and elites dropped at about the same speed.

 

With that being said I'm thinking about switching back to Carnage. While I don't think its really better or worse than Annihilation I think I prefer the slightly more ranged aspect of it with Force Scream doing big hits from outside melee range.

[jimlaheysadrunk]

A person would be stating their opinion if he said carnage was a fun specialization. A person would show their lack of understanding the Marauder if he said carnage is a superior specialization, or even a good specialization.

 

Carnage has no survivability, and unbound or defensive roll do not make for a good argument. Carnage's damage is less in comparison to annihilation's and rage's output.

 

Annihilation is great in any situation.

 

Rage is superior in warzones, and good in pve.

 

Carnage is poor in both instances, and a one trick pony at best when it comes to damage output; which is very weak in comparison to annihilation and rage.

 

A skilled player can work with carnage, but that doesn't mean that player isn't handicapping themselves. Their is no fault in liking carnage's game play, but saying the specialization is competitive is a bad joke in and of itself, and a misnomer to anyone trying to learn the ins and outs of the marauder archetype.

 

I will put it as plainly as possible for those new to this crazy ride.

 

Carnage

 

Is

 

Marauder's

 

Weakest

 

Specialization

 

No

 

Ifs

 

Buts

 

Or

 

Ands

 

I have personally tested all the specializations to death, and I can say without a doubt that annihilation has the most damage, survivability, and mobility of the three specializations, and the only saving grace for rage is the amount of sheer bust the spec can put out. Yet rage is a predictable specialization and the tells it gives off are tooobvious. A skilled player can and will avoid smashes.

 

lol all you know it alls crack me up. are you writing the Brady Games Strategy Guide?

 

what you are saying here is also OPINION.

 

i do great as carnage in PVP. (yep, played annihilation, and rage) doesnt matter what spec you are as a marauder, if you dont pick your targets correctly, chances are youre getting lit up. i for one have no problems with staying alive or doing damage.

 

now is what i just said MY OPINION or is it FACT?

Edited January 25, 2012 by jimlaheysadrunk

[AcaciaDragon]

I've noticed that most of the people on these forums have sort of gone through a trend in discussions of their favorite specs for the Marauder in PvP. Generally, a lot of people are complaining that this is a really weak class overall in PvP, which I think is extremely far from the truth. But I think a lot of that has to do with the specs people are using. Klinda put out a great video of Annihilation early on and I think that made a lot of people switch specs. It seems to me that most people were saying Rage was best for PvP at first, then a lot of people switched to Annihilation and generally view it as the best spec for PvP.

 

But most people have generally discounted Carnage as a spec entirely. People have flat out said it's garbage in general and won't give it a chance. At the same time, people are complaining about insufficient damage and say that they are getting kited too easily.

 

My advice is to check out the Carnage spec. I feel that it offers more for PvP than either Rage or Annihilation. The reason being is that, first of all, you get a 15% constant speed boost in combat. That's a really huge deal to prevent being kited. But in addition to that, Carnage offers the best control of all the specs. In the Carnage spec, Deadly Throw offers a 3 second immobilize and Ravage roots for the duration as well. Both these abilities do not significantly add to the resolve bar of the enemy either. So between Deadly Throw, Ravage, and Force Choke, in addition to the root with Force Charge, not having a stun doesn't quite matter as much. The advantages of this spec are most evident when fighting a ranged enemy who is trying to kite you, and when trying to keep someone on the fire pit in Huttball.

 

You move faster and have more control in this spec than any other. For those of you who think the Marauder is very weak in PvP, I highly suggest you try the Carnage spec. I feel that it's the most underrated spec for PvP right now, and I've been having a lot of success with it thus far. I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the matter for those of you who may have discounted the spec entirely and are disappointed with the Marauder in PvP. Try it out for a while... you may find a renewed sense of satisfaction with this class in PvP if you do.

 

I have tons of fun with this spec! Ive been Carnage since day one and I am only getting better at it!

[BrolleunHunter]

lol all you know it alls crack me up. are you writing the Brady Games Strategy Guide?

 

what you are saying here is also OPINION.

 

i do great as carnage in PVP. (yep, played annihilation, and rage) doesn't matter what spec you are as a marauder, if you dont pick your targets correctly, chances are you're getting lit up. i for one have no problems with staying alive or doing damage.

 

now is what i just said MY OPINION or is it FACT?

 

Fact: Rage and Annihilation do more sustained and burst damage then Carnage.

 

Opinion: Carnage is a fun spec.

 

Misnomer, also known as misleading or lying: Carnage is a strong or superior spec compared to Rage or Annihilation.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Meluna
insult

[AcaciaDragon]

Fact: Rage and Annihilation do more sustained and burst damage then Carnage.

 

Thats funny.

[jimlaheysadrunk]

Fact: Rage and Annihilation do more sustained and burst damage then Carnage.

 

Opinion: Carnage is a fun spec.

 

Misnomer, also known as misleading or lying: Carnage is a strong or superior spec compared to Rage or Annihilation.

 

 

i would like to know how you got your facts, since there are no damage meters or combat logs for you to get FACTS from. again, your know it all attitude will be your downfall in life sir. knowledge is a burden, ignorance is a gift.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Meluna

[EasymodeX]

i would like to know how you got your facts, since there are no damage meters or combat logs for you to get FACTS from. again, your know it all attitude will be your downfall in life sir. knowledge is a burden, ignorance is a gift.

 

This may be surprising to you, but there are other ways to test DPS besides a damage meter, such as going to a level 25 world boss and timing how long it takes to drop 50%, or timing damage on the council.

 

 

Lolololol "METERR OR WE IZ NOW NOTING".

[jimlaheysadrunk]

This may be surprising to you, but there are other ways to test DPS besides a damage meter, such as going to a level 25 world boss and timing how long it takes to drop 50%, or timing damage on the council.

 

 

Lolololol "METERR OR WE IZ NOW NOTING".

 

 

all im saying is burning a world boss and timing it, then saying CARNAGE SUCKS isnt really a way to get factual information.

 

sure you can get an idea of how much damage is being done, but you dont have any FACTUAL NUMBERS you can show.

[Warlordomega]

Fact: Rage and Annihilation do more sustained and burst damage then Carnage.

 

Opinion: Carnage is a fun spec.

 

Misnomer, also known as misleading or lying: Carnage is a strong or superior spec compared to Rage or Annihilation.

 

This made me roflmao. each spec has its perc to bring to the table. rage is great for doors and nodes in warzones because of the heavy aoe it can do. anni is great for its hard hitting bleeds that also keep u up and anni hits like a truck. carnage is great for keeping them in melee range byfar and the more they are in range the faster you kill them aka you live. imo it all depends ont he playstyle. b4 you make a post liek this pls support it with backup like videos of it sucking or w/e

Edited January 25, 2012 by Meluna

[ThisGuyThat]

I've said this too many times already. Carnage is weak. It's a utility spec in a metagame where such utility is pointless: the only way snares will improve your dps is in Huttball snaring them over the fire or if they are snared within melee range while you are not stunned. If you're within melee range and not stunned you don't need them to be snared: marauders have enough slows and melee is forgiving enough to simply play catch-up and keep your damage on the target. The snares are a gimmick.

 

What marauders need is a way to do damage from afar or to close the gap when the opponent separates via a stun or knockback (much more common than being slowed and unable to keep up to a running foe). To this end annihilation and rage provide solutions (bleeds/faster charge CD and obliterate/ranged force damage/burst). Carnage provides no such solution.

 

The theory behind carnage is to spam Massacre, which is mildly stronger than Vicious Slash only if vicious slash is not talented for +15% crit. It also gives free crit force scream which are weaker than force screams from the rage tree, although crits in that tree are luck-based. The benefit of the carnage tree over any of the other trees is Gore. All that needs to be said, then, is this.

 

Gore is broken. It's 4.5 seconds of usefulness are too easily denied, it's rage cost too high to maintain sustained dps if you go for burst during the gore, and the gore benefit itself is only useful vs high armor mitigation, while a large percentage of damage is actually blocked by shields(i.e. barrier abilities) or defensive abilities on cooldowns (which gore does not help against). Gore is broken and thus so is carnage.

 

To the "prove it" comments, just save it. No one can prove anything, and to force us to provide proof when you can't do it yourself is ludicrous. Look at the talents: based purely on the theorycraft differences between the specs, carnage can only be better in very select scenarios, and it's not worth speccing into for that, unless you find it to be fun.

[jimlaheysadrunk]

I've said this too many times already. Carnage is weak. It's a utility spec in a metagame where such utility is pointless: the only way snares will improve your dps is in Huttball snaring them over the fire or if they are snared within melee range while you are not stunned. If you're within melee range and not stunned you don't need them to be snared: marauders have enough slows and melee is forgiving enough to simply play catch-up and keep your damage on the target. The snares are a gimmick.

 

What marauders need is a way to do damage from afar or to close the gap when the opponent separates via a stun or knockback (much more common than being slowed and unable to keep up to a running foe). To this end annihilation and rage provide solutions (bleeds/faster charge CD and obliterate/ranged force damage/burst). Carnage provides no such solution.

 

The theory behind carnage is to spam Massacre, which is mildly stronger than Vicious Slash only if vicious slash is not talented for +15% crit. It also gives free crit force scream which are weaker than force screams from the rage tree, although crits in that tree are luck-based. The benefit of the carnage tree over any of the other trees is Gore. All that needs to be said, then, is this.

 

Gore is broken. It's 4.5 seconds of usefulness are too easily denied, it's rage cost too high to maintain sustained dps if you go for burst during the gore, and the gore benefit itself is only useful vs high armor mitigation, while a large percentage of damage is actually blocked by shields(i.e. barrier abilities) or defensive abilities on cooldowns (which gore does not help against). Gore is broken and thus so is carnage.

 

To the "prove it" comments, just save it. No one can prove anything, and to force us to provide proof when you can't do it yourself is ludicrous. Look at the talents: based purely on the theorycraft differences between the specs, carnage can only be better in very select scenarios, and it's not worth speccing into for that, unless you find it to be fun.

 

 

so basically what youre saying is that you cant prove anything you just said, and that you should have saved it but didnt.....

[Caliban_Thule]

Fact: Rage and Annihilation do more sustained and burst damage then Carnage.

 

Opinion: Carnage is a fun spec.

 

Misnomer, also known as misleading or lying: Carnage is a strong or superior spec compared to Rage or Annihilation.

 

It cant be a 'fact' until you have data. You would have to do an extensive number of tests without a combat log, and sync them up. Anything from crits, latency, abilities not firing off to improper rotations would skew the results.

 

Right now you have an opinion. You will need more tests before it becomes fact. Very few people have done this, and again are just regurgitating what they read on the forum.

[xSkynet]

I also think both other specs are vastly superior to carnage. The only thing I enjoyed about carnage was that I found it easier to play, more streamlined if you would. I feel that a major flaw of carnage is having to wait for that 3rd attack in ravage, we all know we get 2 attacks the first time around, so you lose damage waiting for that third. Additionally, ravage as most agree, is very buggy at times, rooting the ravage caster in place! It's hard to give the nod to a spec where the majority of the burst comes from a channeled melee ability.

 

 

 

I also think that annihilation is far superior as an anti-kiting spec. I played carnage a lot and I loved rooting with saber throw, but annihilation's force leap spec'd for no minimum distance makes it serious when it comes to staying on a target.

[jimlaheysadrunk]

It cant be a 'fact' until you have data. You would have to do an extensive number of tests without a combat log, and sync them up. Anything from crits, latency, abilities not firing off to improper rotations would skew the results.

 

Right now you have an opinion. You will need more tests before it becomes fact. Very few people have done this, and again are just regurgitating what they read on the forum.

 

k so this guy here understands exactly what im trying to say. im really glad that another person here understands that you cant have FACTS without PROOF.

 

and theorycraft is not FACT, its THEORY.

[Caliban_Thule]

I also think both other specs are vastly superior to carnage. The only thing I enjoyed about carnage was that I found it easier to play, more streamlined if you would. I feel that a major flaw of carnage is having to wait for that 3rd attack in ravage, we all know we get 2 attacks the first time around, so you lose damage waiting for that third. Additionally, ravage as most agree, is very buggy at times, rooting the ravage caster in place! It's hard to give the nod to a spec where the majority of the burst comes from a channeled melee ability.

 

 

 

I also think that annihilation is far superior as an anti-kiting spec. I played carnage a lot and I loved rooting with saber throw, but annihilation's force leap spec'd for no minimum distance makes it serious when it comes to staying on a target.

 

2 roots, a passive move speed increase, and a root break < 3 seconds off of charge and no min distance?

 

I really dont see that

[jimlaheysadrunk]

2 roots, a passive move speed increase, and a root break < 3 seconds off of charge and no min distance?

 

I really dont see that

 

 

trust me dude, you cant win. they have theory to back up their statements, so you cant win at all.

Edited January 25, 2012 by jimlaheysadrunk