i will play GW2 as well, but i will continue playing this game as well i think. the fact that BW has the subscriptions coming in tells me this game will be relatively better over time, maybe even truly better than gw2 at some point. i also think the innovation of gw2 will wear off after a while.

i've been lurking this thread, and feel maybe there are a few things people missed. for one thing, all this talk about theorycraft without actual theorycraft this is NOT theory craft: ''i loove my spec, dots are so good, even though (ever increasing amount of arguments why anni is not as good as they think), i still think you're a mean stupidhead if you don't play the same way as i do'' this IS theory craft: Annihalation gets roughly equivalant mobility, Less CC, sustained damage , plus a BOATLOAD of healing relative to carnage spec. logic (and balance) dictate that carnage and rage MUST do more burst damage - everyone claiming anni has better burst is just talking out of their bottoms. also i want to echo something another person said, in that i consider myself a competitive PvP player and would change my spec to annihalation if i wasn't getting top dps and k/d with carnage.

i'd like to see your build, i use this http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::f14e2f3efe6fe3fe2fe4f6ef4ef8:

don't tell me what I can do with a class. what you and i can do with the class is apparently VERY different. the only point where i've had trouble is when i skipped quests and was fighting mobs 2 levels above me, and that even made me look at my rotation and find a better way to fight. the fact remains that I CAN easily pve. maybe you're having trouble with it, but as you can see, i am not the only person who doesn't feel that our class is 'broken'. even though i am playing the spec that everyone says 'sucks', i constantly cannot find myself in the arguments people make for this class being bad. why would you even want to argue the class is bad? oh right, so you can get buffs and faceroll everyone else. let me tell you, learn to play is not an insult. people seeing it as an insult is an error on their end not on mine. i'm simply saying that i, personally, am having no trouble at all. PvE is a cakewalk, my quinn can solo the mobs if i only agro them (yes, i tested this), and i'm free to experiment with my rotation in any way, constantly. in PvP i am in top 3 damage consistently and most huttball matches score multiple times because of our awesome mobility. my point is, we can exchange stories about how easy this is for me or how hard this is for you, but at the end of the day it changes nothing. i'm still having an easy time and you are still having a hard time. it might be hard to understand, but i'm actually trying to be supportive and helpful by saying i'm having no trouble, since this should be proof that our class CAN work, and incentive for people who find it hard to try harder. PS.the funny thing is, you are trying to bully me away from this dicussion while you are the one who find it necessary. ever heard of the rule of the vocal minority? basically, the people who find they are having trouble playing this class have more reason to discuss it that the people who are having no trouble, since, well, they are having no trouble. so while it might seem like a 50/50 split among people who think we are fine (other classes being op notwithstanding) , and people who think we are crap, it might just be all the 'bad' marauders being here, and the majority of the 'good' ones are in game. PPS.i also find it interesting you expect me to have proof for every statement i make, even if i'm just saying 'hey guys, for me everything's going allright', but your statement that our class is utterly broken requires no proof at all.

coming from many other games, and still counting in this one, i'd rather have dots on my caster and burst with great mobility and roots on my melee dps. but that might just be my opinion.

i know. and i think 1 rage every six seconds is a good deal when i can massacre whenever i want to get that instant-crit proc up. the point was that it has no use at all to make it longer, and you don't really seem to understand the class given that you thought defensive forms gave you rage. i say learn to play, please, and more threads like these with no arguments, just random ideas and opinions thrown about, aren't going to chance the chance of us getting buffs.

wait, you want a longer blood frenzy? so we get less rage? that's pretty stupid. anyway, i do agree on gore, though giving it multiple charges may be op in combination with ravage.

no my dear sir, you just suck at playing a marauder, no question. if i even try a little i can easily do mobs at +2 level with -2 level gear. i advise you to look VERY critically to how you use your rotation and cooldowns.

i think it's funny how people always claim to have 'evidence that anni is the best' or 'evidence that carnage sucks balls' , though they never share this evidence. this of course, is cause they're just talking out of their bottoms. so i will just honestly say, in my opinion (no i don't have evidence, nobody actually has) carnage is underrated and powerful in pvp. maybe not so much for pve, but pvp is my personal focus anyway.

level 44 here, i've been playing carnage since beta, always loved it - tried some other specs but i really mis^sed the burst and roots of carnage, not to mention +50% crit dmg force scream and +15% movespeed. around level 38 i started to doubt it again, but after i got massacre and the -1 rage cost on it everything's been going very smoothly. this is the spec i use, i play mostly for pvp though i like flashpoints, i do not take talents with pve in mind. http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::f14e2f3efe6fe3fe2fe4f6ef4ef8:

i'd say carnage really started to get going around lvl 43 for me, i picked up the 1 rage refund on massacre and the damage i did in wz shot up by a lot. i'm having great fun with it, i'm pretty confident it's an overlooked and effective spec for PvP, maybe pve not so much but i'm not keen on respeccing every hour

so, because you die, when you try it a little, it's bad? pretty bad logic there. of course, i agree with you that we're not op, far from it. but carnage is not garbage. let me guess, you use annihalation? because everyone who uses that unholy DoT-on-a-melee-class spec is always hating on carnage, do you have some frustrations you need to vent or something? for one thing, yes, rage is burst. but rage is Aoe burst, ani is sustained, and carnage IS our single target burst pvp spec, whether you trust in that or not. i've bursted people down in 3 seconds with this spec, simply charge > rupture > gore > scream > ravage never seen another specc'd marauder do that. lemme drop some knowledge. burst is better than DoT. especially in pvp, inyourface burst wins out vs. sustained damage. and seeing how anni gets some really great healing AND has sustained damage, carnage will do much, much more damage, and much more bursty damage, assuming bioware balances things. not only does carnage have more melee uptime, it has move speed, 3 rooting spells and a boatload of damage through gore > ravage. i'm not saying it's better than anni, because at least i am honest in that i KNOW we do NOT know the numbers, since we have no dps meters. all we can say is well, i've been top dps & kills & medals in a wz. that's about the extent of the 'facts' we have. and let's be serious here, we've all been playing this class for just over a month. no one is an expert here. all i'm trying to say is, your arguments are worth nothing to me, just like mine are worth nothing to you, simply because neither of us has the facts. that said, if you look at CC and burst vs. sustained damage (which are important factor in pvp), carnage would probably win out. and really, if you want to play a DoT class you should play a sorcerer/sniper(/assassin), not melee.

nono, YOU, personally, feel that YOU are easy to kill. there is a difference between being bad and the class being up.

Carnage is damage over time and defense? saying that just invalidated the rest of your post.

nope. level 42 here. nothing abused, haven't been able to play the last 2 days since i'm in europe. thanks for showing how stupid this community is in one sentence.