This should have been KOTOR3

[Cyclonus]

I've been on board with this game since day 1, and used to hate when people complained that this game should have been KOTOR 3. Now though...I sadly have to agree. KOTOR 3 would have likely been amazing and gone down as a legendary game. I can't say the same for TOR.

[Redshirtricky]

It's 1 month of TOR... and it's BW's first crack at an MMO.

 

of course there's going to be balance issues. That'll range from Illum (lol), powers balancing, pve balancing, etc. etc.

 

This reply isn't meant to defend BW at all, but how could you not see this with a new game? The normal Ops are dropping purples like candy, and it's basically a faceroll. Ok. They've obviously tweaked it so that even monkeys and cavemen can do it. No challenge at all.

 

The hardmode and NM are obviously faceroll as well. Cool, you've experienced it but I haven't, so let's take your opinion on the matter.

 

I actually like the first post, because I do agree that this game continues the tradition of "purple epix!" = standard gear, and that it should be somewhat of a challenge to down a boss that requires more than 4 people.

 

The whole HMFP > Op in terms of difficulty while basically giving the same loot is also valid.

 

Here's what I find amusing, that this thread goes off in a lot of different tangents, when all that's really needed is for those who find the game a waste of their time to go ahead and cancel. You're not a bad person for cancelling; I am not a fanboi for telling you to go do something more enjoyable for you.

 

We're people. This is what we do when you don't like an activity. Suggest how to fix it, then vote with your income. This is the only way BW can be persuaded to tweak their game. When the suits feel the impact of negative press + cancelled accounts, they'll change.

 

I can't believe there's grown adults who can't grasp that concept.

[Evingolis]

It's his opinion and he clearly doesn't value the same things you do.

 

It's overall "pretty good" only if you aren't into raiding, PvP, guild activies or crafting. If you play 2 hours a night and 3 on the weekend, I suspect it's great. If you work from home like me and have lots of free time, it's very difficult to not run out of things to do.

 

Don't talk to me about alts. I have 13, and I'm beginning to run into lock where they are all getting boring.

 

Exactly my situation. I play for 6-10 hours a week tops due to work and wife/kids so the game fits my playstyle perfectly.

[Nighthawked]

Wow do people read?

 

http://www.swtor.com/info

 

Play Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ and be the

hero of your own Star Wars™ saga in a story-driven

massively-multiplayer online game....

 

...in a story-driven massively-multiplayer online game...

 

It does not say Raid driven, PVP driven, or anything that relates to end game content, it says Story Driven. Which means if you went into this game thinking it would have as much end game stuff as WoW does, well who would be to blame?

 

The fact that the first sentence of the game description, and what was HIGHLY promoted, is STORY, suggest more thought went into the leveling and story than end game.

 

And BTW, I already did more MMO-style things in this game with only one character than in my 4 characters of WoW.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Nighthawked

[Iusedtoplaywow]

Dude if you are going by that bolded crap then "Story driven" and "Massively Multiplayer" cancel each out. Thats the dumbest quote ever. Its so friggen vague.

 

Coming into this game, i thought story driven meant GROUP ENCOUNTERS with STORY BASED ELEMENTS. Thats what MMORPG means to me. It seems you are content with just the RPG aspect, which is cool, but this will be the first subscription based single player game in history, and the story DOESNT EVEN STACK UP AGAINST OTHER GAMES FROM THE SAME DEVELOPER. Doesn't that bother you....at all?

[Nighthawked]

Dude if you are going by that bolded crap then "Story driven" and "Massively Multiplayer" cancel each out. Thats the dumbest quote ever. Its so friggen vague.

 

Coming into this game, i thought story driven meant GROUP ENCOUNTERS with STORY BASED ELEMENTS. Thats what MMORPG means to me. It seems you are content with just the RPG aspect, which is cool, but this will be the first subscription based single player game in history, and the story DOESNT EVEN STACK UP AGAINST OTHER GAMES FROM THE SAME DEVELOPER. Doesn't that bother you....at all?

 

How do they cancel each other out? As I said, I had more group activities in this game than in the all mighty WoW. I went from 1 to 85 on two characters ON MY OWN in that game. This game, I am doing the heroics and flashpoints.

 

I also encounter that nice PVP MMO situation where 4 enemy players camp at a med center. When they kill me, I spawn and they kill me again. How is this not an MMO?!?!?

 

Yeah, there are no group activities....

[Galbatorrix]

Why can people never just quit? Why create a whine thread EVERY TIME? Look, if you're going to keep playing and want improvements, post about them. If you're quitting the game, just quit. No one cares what you think as you're gone anyway.

 

Also, anyone else hate when people try to generalize and speak for others? I mean, I think this game is an awesome MMO AND RPG. How bout them apples? I've grouped while questing more in this game than I have in WOW in the past 2 years. This game not only highly promotes grouping while questing with the Heroic instances, but it also normally give you reward actually worth going through the effort. I'm loving this game and I will be subbed for years to come if they stick with what they're doing while continuing to make improvements and add content.

[Galbatorrix]

Dude if you are going by that bolded crap then "Story driven" and "Massively Multiplayer" cancel each out. Thats the dumbest quote ever. Its so friggen vague.

 

Coming into this game, i thought story driven meant GROUP ENCOUNTERS with STORY BASED ELEMENTS. Thats what MMORPG means to me. It seems you are content with just the RPG aspect, which is cool, but this will be the first subscription based single player game in history, and the story DOESNT EVEN STACK UP AGAINST OTHER GAMES FROM THE SAME DEVELOPER. Doesn't that bother you....at all?

 

 

 

Why would that bother those of us that disagree with your opinion? The game does have story driven moments based off of group encounters. Heck, it has a flashpoint at level 10 that does this... If you're not happy, quit. It's that simple.

[daftshadow]

I don't want to hate on SWTOR. I like it very much, but it's not a good RPG because of the MMO part, and it's not a good MMO because of the RPG part.

 

My guild is leaving the game. We really have nothing to do. The Operations are not hard, gearing up is not thought out at all. It's too easy, there's nothing we can do, besides log for 3 hours few nights of the week to clear the ops. It's not the lack of content, it's the content itself. The MMO part of the game is bugged to hell. Doing HM Flashpoints is a chore. Hell, doing HM IS NOT REQUIRED! You can get geared up in 2-3 runs of Normal mode EV, then the Hard mode EV is not hard by itself and it drops Rakata gear. I haven't done 3/4 of the HM Flashpoints. Soa is crippled by bugs month and a half after the launch. In operations we spend more time fighting bugs and reseting the instance, than fighting bosses.

 

Then there's alts. God I love the classes in this game. They really are great. I've made quite a few already. JK, Sniper, Sage etc... My main is a Powertech tank, love it too. But it really kills the fun for me, when I know, that I will hit 50 and I've seen how bad things are. What kind of motivation can I have? I don't want to do the bugtastic Ops. They barely work, they don't feel polished and rewarding. And what we were talking about with my guildies last night. There is no adrenaline rush doing ops. Like when you're trying hard to kill a boss and it's almost dead, and your heart is about to explode with excitement. I haven't had that feeling here. And how could I? I hit 50 and I became fully epic without any effort. I was geared for the END GAME Hard modes without putting in any kind of effort.

 

I just feel sad, that they didn't do another KOTOR. It would have been a legendary game, just like the previous 2. And look at Skyrim making huge profits, proving to BioWare, that you don't need a MMO to milk your fans. I have just started a playthrough of ME1 to prepare a save for ME3, and the game is light years ahead of SWTOR in RPG terms. It was made and released by BioWare years ago, yet it's the better RPG.

 

So what now BioWare? What have you accomplished with SWTOR? You didn't make a good RPG and you didn't make a good MMO. There's basically no other game studio, that can compare to you in the RPG department, yet you went out of your way to create this huge mess of a game.

 

Make up your mind, you either transition to a fully fledged MMO, or try to make the game a better RPG. Because go to X place and kill X mobs, with a few dialogues in between, does not cut it.

 

if this game doesn't work out for EA in terms of generating back revenue or maintain a reasonably consistent profitable return, they can so convert swtor into a singleplayer rpg. just picture swtor being converted into a singleplayer rpg with much better 3D graphics.

Edited January 25, 2012 by daftshadow

[Snaze]

ummm ya, im actually shocked that anyone would resub, game is just bad. im only sub'd this month cus my co workers asked me to give it another month...so mad i gave another 15$ to this game, i love star wars.....but if i play this game for 5 more minutes....no wait get stuck on the load screen boss for 5 more minutes, ill end up hating even princess leah....and the only reason im trollin these posts is wow is in maintenance.....dont like my spellin and punctuationingation? good

[Iusedtoplaywow]

Why would that bother those of us that disagree with your opinion? The game does have story driven moments based off of group encounters. Heck, it has a flashpoint at level 10 that does this... If you're not happy, quit. It's that simple.

 

How about, im not happy, and i want the game to be better? That fits a vast majority of the 'complainers' voices. You wont hear from the subs that cancel and quit, because they dont give a crap where this game goes...

 

If there were other instances with the polish like esseles, i would be PUMPED. I actually bought this game PURELY based on my group experience in Esseles during the open beta stress test.

 

I should have known better. There is literally not 1 other flashpoint with the story driven grouping like the esseles has on Republic. The esseles felt epic. The game should have released with that level of polish on ALL flashpoints.

[Spynnal]

The game absolutely needs a lot of work. But I'm still enjoying it.

 

Being just 6 weeks after release, and knowing that MMO's morph significantly over time, not ready to bail anytime soon, and intend to see where it goes.

 

People criticizing a product they do not enjoy is perfectly fine, but I will never understand those who make predictions, and demand people agree. You do not know where the game will be in 3/6/9 months. No one does.

 

Our guild raided WoW from release through T8. We have 50+ people who migrated, and 6 weeks later, we still have 50+ actively playing.

 

Like I said, needs work. Lots of bugs, gear progression needs tweaked, PvP needs lots of work, balancing is an issue, UI and Mod alteration would help, etc.

 

But we were there for WoW release. First 60 days, our server was MIA for 22 days. (comped time). There was one single raid zone (MC) that they stretched out through key lines and resistance checks, for almost 9 months into the game. PvP was unbalanced, there was no Arena, etc.

 

Not comparing the games early on point for point (I know, it's 7 years later), but, Vanilla WoW had its share of issues, and those who stuck it out saw the game improve massively over the first few years (compare MC raids to Karazhan, or Ulduar)

 

Not trying to convince folks to stay, or that the product is solid, but just remember, forums reflect a tiny portion of users, and negative reviews always spur folks to action faster than positive.

 

Our full guild is still playing and enjoying the game, and hoping they make some bright decisions over the coming months.

[Iusedtoplaywow]

Wow you certainly know what games I play and what games I do not.

 

I am sorry, I have played the "OMG BEST GAME EVAR!!!!" WoW and did more stuff on my own than this game already, and I have not even hit level 50 yet.

 

I think hes actually just calling you out for the liar you are.

[Iusedtoplaywow]

But we were there for WoW release. First 60 days, our server was MIA for 22 days. (comped time). There was one single raid zone (MC) that they stretched out through key lines and resistance checks, for almost 9 months into the game. PvP was unbalanced, there was no Arena, etc.

 

Not comparing the games early on point for point (I know, it's 7 years later), but, Vanilla WoW had its share of issues, and those who stuck it out saw the game improve massively over the first few years (compare MC raids to Karazhan, or Ulduar)

 

Just for comparison purposes, I was also in that boat. I rushed to 50 in vanilla WoW(took a lot more time than this game) and guess what? I wasnt bored at all, because there was a ton of ways to progress my character even with that brand new game. Even MORE to do for the 'solo, casual' player. That game appealed to BOTH audiences, and guess what, its STILL HERE TODAY.

 

But vanilla WoW comparisons are dumb. Vanilla WoW BLEW AWAY the competition and other long standing MMO's at the time(EQ, UO). It was simply a better game, even with its flaws.

 

You cannot say the same with SWTOR vs The Competition(even if you throw WoW out of the equation).

[Nighthawked]

I think hes actually just calling you out for the liar you are.

 

Oh yes I am a liar, I have never played an MMO before in my life. I have never played WoW before, you got me.

 

You obviously know my credit card history, know what games I play every minute of every day.

 

Just so you know the TRUTH. I have played WoW. I have about 7 characters there, but only 2 80-85 characters (I never went back to my level 80 once I had a different character as my main).

 

I only did dungeons a few times across those 7 characters. In this game, I am doing heroics far more.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Nighthawked

[knightblaster]

It's his opinion and he clearly doesn't value the same things you do.

 

If you play 2 hours a night and 3 on the weekend, I suspect it's great. If you work from home like me and have lots of free time, it's very difficult to not run out of things to do.

 

There are more players who are the 2 hour a day and 3 on weekends than who are the ones who have lots of free time. Tuning the game around those who are able/willing to pour hours and hours of time into it alienates the majority of the players.

[Spynnal]

Just for comparison purposes, I was also in that boat. I rushed to 50 in vanilla WoW(took a lot more time than this game) and guess what? I wasnt bored at all, because there was a ton of ways to progress my character even with that brand new game. Even MORE to do for the 'solo, casual' player. That game appealed to BOTH audiences, and guess what, its STILL HERE TODAY.

 

But vanilla WoW comparisons are dumb. Vanilla WoW BLEW AWAY the competition and other long standing MMO's at the time(EQ, UO). It was simply a better game, even with its flaws.

 

You cannot say the same with SWTOR vs The Competition(even if you throw WoW out of the equation).

 

That's an opinion. I had my full tier 0 set done in 2 months. I sat at Max level for 6 months, plodding through MC, hating RNG, and caring only about raid gear drops. Nothing else was an upgrade, therefore, little else was worth running. UBRS/LBRS/Scholo/Strat chain runs lost their novelty to some by February.

 

For me, February to June was beyond boring. MC, MC, and MC. Nothing else.

 

By the time BWL came out (June), and after, the game added many things to enhance max level, it improved by leaps and bounds.

 

But that was 8 months after release.

 

Fun is subjective.

 

22 days with the server being MIA out of the first 60 was not enjoyable. It was not polished or fun in the least. It was a coin flip if you could play that day. Maybe to some, that is high polish, and tons of fun, but I'll call a spade a spade, and say I was Beta test 2.0 for them in the early months. When the server is MIA, and you cannot even see your characters, who cares how excellent it is...it isn't there.

 

Stuck with that game 6 years. I liked it. But I liked it infinitely more at month 8 than I did anytime before that.

 

SWTOR may never improve like that did. But I'm not going to re-imagine my experience. It was what it was.

 

Regardless, my point was, some folks are sticking it out, even with their eyes open to the flaws. Worked for me before.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Spynnal

[GiMMLi]

So let me get this straight, because it doesn't take a level 50 6 hours to get one piece of gear and HM's aren't almost unbeatable with 4 players this game is not a good MMO? I'm having a hardtime with alot of the logic spewed out by the naysayers. If you want to grind in a 8 hour dungeon to get a piece of gear may I suggest you return to WoW. If your finding HM's easy then there's always NM. Try that and if your still complaining then this game might not be for you.

[Sambba]

Oh yes I am a liar, I have never played an MMO before in my life. I have never played WoW before, you got me.

 

You obviously know my credit card history, know what games I play every minute of every day.

 

Just so you know the TRUTH. I have played WoW. I have about 7 characters there, but only 2 80-85 characters (I never went back to my level 80 once I had a different character as my main).

 

I only did dungeons a few times across those 7 characters. In this game, I am doing heroics far more.

 

In WoW I did a lot more heroics, here I did one and got bored pretty quickly. What I am doing now is every new instance once on normal mode and continue class story when they add more.

[Iusedtoplaywow]

That's an opinion. I had my full tier 0 set done in 2 months. I sat at Max level for 6 months, plodding through MC, hating RNG, and caring only about raid gear drops. Nothing else was an upgrade, therefore, little else was worth running. UBRS/LBRS/Scholo/Strat chain runs lost their novelty to some by January.

 

For me, February to June was beyond boring. MC, MC, and MC. Nothing else.

 

By the time BWL came out (June), and after, the game added many things to enhance max level, it improved by leaps and bounds.

 

But that was 8 months after release.

 

Fun is subjective.

 

22 days with the server being MIA out of the first 60 was not enjoyable. It was not polished or fun in the least. It was a coin flip if you could play that day. Maybe to some, that is high polish, and tons of fun, but I'll call a spade a spade, and say I was Beta test 2.0 for them in the early months.

 

Stuck with that game 6 years. I liked it. But I liked it infinitely more at month 8 than I did anytime before that.

 

SWTOR may never improve like that did. But I'm not going to re-imagine my experience. It was what it was.

 

Regardless, my point was, some folks are sticking it out, even with their eyes open to the flaws. Worked for me before.

 

It wont work in this game for you though, if you happened to read the rest of my post.

 

WoW dominated the playing field AT THE TIME of its release. Not 8 months later when the content patch hit. Right away. THAT is quite literally the only reason that game is here today...it was just better than the competition and it was what the masses wanted.

 

This game does not even have CLOSE to the same circumstances that lead to WoW's success.

[Themanthatisi]

OP-can I haz your guild's stuffz?

 

thats a fact, Lucasarts was the the reason Kotor 2 went out the way it did, there was content in the game that was not finished. I did still enjoy it... I would have preferred a Kotor 3 myself, I do not do much of anything with others, I play games to escape people, we are all different.

[deadatspawn]

adios than...noone cares..

 

This is stupid. I see this over and over again. This is a MMO and you need people. And if you don't care that everyone goes then what will you have?

[Spynnal]

It wont work in this game for you though, if you happened to read the rest of my post.

 

WoW dominated the playing field AT THE TIME of its release. Not 8 months later when the content patch hit. Right away. THAT is quite literally the only reason that game is here today...it was just better than the competition and it was what the masses wanted.

 

This game does not even have CLOSE to the same circumstances that lead to WoW's success.

 

Again, predictions.

 

I'll admit, I don't know if it will get better or worse.

 

But like I said too many times already, I did not enjoy WoW through the first 8 months. From BWL and after, the game vastly changed and improved.

 

May or may not here. I know your take.

 

But despite you asserting this game fails due to current competition, please forward the fun MMO catlogue you're using, because the landscape is rather bleak currently in my opinion.

 

None of the above changes my point that no one here has clue one what this game will be like in 6 months. And as I said, a lot of folks will wait and see where it goes.

[Iusedtoplaywow]

Well, let me say this then. I PREDICT that if Vanilla WoW came out today, it wouldn't stand a chance in hell in the current MMO market.

 

Comparing WoW success in 2004 vs SWTOR in 2012 is futile.

[Nighthawked]

Well, let me say this then. I PREDICT that if Vanilla WoW came out today, it wouldn't stand a chance in hell in the current MMO market.

 

Comparing WoW success in 2004 vs SWTOR in 2012 is futile.

 

I do not even think Blizzard's next MMO will be any good when it comes out. Meaning people will think of it just as they do this game, not enough content as a continuously developed WoW.

 

I read a news article yesterday that they "could" be implementing product placements. Maybe they think that any MMO these days needs to be free to play to be a success. We will not know if we will be drinking Coke in the game or not until it develops farther.