Viikuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) 1.1 didn't brought any changeds to Operative damage. So there you have it. Look again: The bridge of death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs#t=3m06s And the guy in the video is not buff stacking so 1.1 changes wouldn't change the numbers. Edited January 25, 2012 by Viikuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Your opener doesn't have a 2 min cooldown unlike the cc breaker. Anyways, I dunno about sorcs but they don't burst that much in my opinion, maybe assassins have that much burst. As for juggs, yes they have a 5k hit, however it doesnt knock you down for 4 seconds. You can move and cc and do other things while you are getting hit. Plus juggs don't have stealth which is already a huge advantage. If you know juggs u can pop cooldowns before the big hit lands. The opener from stealth is impossible to see coming unless I detect your stealth. Neither does any of the other classes 5k crits skills, neither have that cd any of the other classes ccs. Operatives opener DOES NEED the operative to be in stealth, which other classes dont have that requirement for their 5k crits move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Not if you use the ability to improve your level of stealth mate, then I can't detect you... don't play dumb... Which is on a one minute cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushbits Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 1.1 didn't brought any changeds to Operative damage. So there you have it. Look again: The bridge of death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs#t=3m06s No but it brought changes to the brackets. Only 50's now. Your video is flawed then, since it shows a geared 50 killing zero-pvp geared lowbies. That isn't possible anymore. Do you personally think the class should be nerfed for the ability to kill people with much worse gear and several levels below? Show us a video with the claims stated in the OP vs. equally geared players, with the help of you team mates. Hell, just have someone in you guild bash on you in a duel and record it. If Ops are so OP, they should be able to get you down to 20-30% in 3 seconds like everyone is stating. Either youtube is bugged today or you are all full of poo. Not sure which one it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 1.1 didn't brought any changeds to Operative damage. So there you have it. Look again: The bridge of death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs#t=3m06s So you wont have a problem finding ONE video POST 1.1 with an operative killing someone in 3 seconds then. Good, find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Neither does any of the other classes 5k crits skills, neither have that cd any of the other classes ccs. Operatives opener DOES NEED the operative to be in stealth, which other classes dont have that requirement for their 5k crits move. 5k crit skills that don't stun you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Plus... a juggernaut doesnt press 1 button and crit for 5 k, it takes him 4 global cooldowns to build the abilities to get the 5k crit, during which time you can run away stealth or do any other kinds of things. You press 1 button from stealth and boom 5k crit and 4s stun...I see the resemblance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, its not. Its the same damage a juggernaut does with its AOE. Remember, the Op is extremely kitable and dont do much damage out of stealth unless you let him get on your back. Wait...did you miss the part where I said "from STEALTH" or are you implying juggernaut's have stealth now? See, where I see a major difference is, when I get hit by a juggernaut, it's MY fault for not moving from the glowing icon on the floor...and you're comparing THAT to a from stealth attack? And please tell me how the flip I'm supposed to prevent someone in STEALTH from getting behind me??? Stop pretending you're extra "squishy" - with expertise and stims, EVERY class is squishy. When I pop my shield, I have 15 seconds to stave off death. You have no such fear. You *poof* and run off undetected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Not if you use the ability to improve your level of stealth mate, then I can't detect you... don't play dumb... Yes you can, i see them all the time with both mi medic operative (no increased stealth dtection) and my juggernaut. Pay atention next time, you will see in many cases a shadow moving near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 5k crit skills that don't stun you But can be used all the time and not only in stealth and behind you. You can kite me after you get up, and i have literally two skills (not one is a gap closer or helps me get near you) with more than 10m range, not 30, 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JingleHell Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I play a guardian. Operatives roll me. If they get the opener. Oh just let me hit that flimsy little punk in his toilet paper armor first, though. I assure you, they'll be sub 30% in one stun. They can usually get me to 60% in one stun to open, and from there, the fight's pretty winnable for them. People, I'll give you a hint: It's an ambush class. If they don't get the ambush, they suck. If they do, they can do pretty well. It's what they're DESIGNED TO DO. Maybe instead of screaming for nerfs, DROP AN AOE. Yes, they're good at what they do. SO IS EVERY OTHER CLASS! Edited January 25, 2012 by JingleHell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Plus... a juggernaut doesnt press 1 button and crit for 5 k, it takes him 4 global cooldowns to build the abilities to get the 5k crit, during which time you can run away stealth or do any other kinds of things. You press 1 button from stealth and boom 5k crit and 4s stun...I see the resemblance. No, a vengeance juggernaut can crit 5k with one button and without rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, a vengeance juggernaut can crit 5k with one button and without rage. Ummm no he can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Wait...did you miss the part where I said "from STEALTH" or are you implying juggernaut's have stealth now? See, where I see a major difference is, when I get hit by a juggernaut, it's MY fault for not moving from the glowing icon on the floor...and you're comparing THAT to a from stealth attack? And please tell me how the flip I'm supposed to prevent someone in STEALTH from getting behind me??? Stop pretending you're extra "squishy" - with expertise and stims, EVERY class is squishy. When I pop my shield, I have 15 seconds to stave off death. You have no such fear. You *poof* and run off undetected. So your solution is to not have stealth burst classes. That is fine and well within logical reason, but this isn't your game. It is bioware's and they have implemented stealth burst classes. They have also distributed tools to counter them very nicely and liberally. Op/Scoundrels don't have any meaningful defensive cooldowns. They can vanish on a longish cool down, but can be brought right back out with aoe's, dots, or anti-stealth fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushbits Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToTsCkcbPng IT's real hard because he almost doesn't solo, all I can ask is sum the damage from the 3 first global cooldowns, yes he uses relics. From what I saw damage was someting like: opener:4-4.7k (depends on relic and target) 2nd global cooldown: 2-2.9 k 3rd global cooldown: 1.2-1.9k Totals: 7.4-8.7k Only on global cooldowns. This is if everything crits and without counting dot damage.u can add maybe 2k of dot damage? operatives can talk more about it. I saw ticks going from 350 to 600 per second in 4.5 seconds thats 1.4k-2.4k in 4 seconds The potential is from 8.8k to 11.1k damage in 3 global cooldowns, from opener till the last hit lands. Average HP of people ranges somewhere around 14k perhaps? that's around 60% damage in 3 global cooldowns. And this guy SAYS that he is not fully geared, I can't know if this is true or not. Notice around 6:10 he opens on a gunslinger and almost nothing crits, but he still takes half his hp in 3 global cooldowns. Probably the gunslinger doesnt have great gear butye there it is. Closest one yet. /clap 1. For starters, the gunslinger is OUT OF COVER. Which is equal to a Sorc without a shield. Cover is the number one def. skill for gunslingers, which absorbs a lot of dmg. I don't see a problem with them getting hammered outside of cover. That should be their weakness, agree? 2. He has 12,9k hp, so no, he probably have something like 0 expertise. (no pvp gear that is) 3. Damage output: 4703 (crit)26714712672671653765 (crit)2671607 That is a total of 11267 dmg, over 8 seconds(ish, 0:20-0:28). WITH the 15% exp buff. Considering he might be semi-pvp geared before as well AND that the gunslinger is out of cover and in probably zero pvp gear judging from his hp. But I have to give you that - It was a close one! But 8 seconds, with 15% exp buff on a newly dinged (?) gunslinger out of cover. Meh. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Wait...did you miss the part where I said "from STEALTH" or are you implying juggernaut's have stealth now? See, where I see a major difference is, when I get hit by a juggernaut, it's MY fault for not moving from the glowing icon on the floor...and you're comparing THAT to a from stealth attack? And please tell me how the flip I'm supposed to prevent someone in STEALTH from getting behind me??? Stop pretending you're extra "squishy" - with expertise and stims, EVERY class is squishy. When I pop my shield, I have 15 seconds to stave off death. You have no such fear. You *poof* and run off undetected. You can keep atention to your surroundings, most of the time you will see them before they attack. And yes, having to do it from stealth is a liability, not a benefit. Juggernauts can do it without stealth, and vengeance have reduced cd and dont even need rage to do it. If the operative poof its because the operative have no dots and you failed to throw an aoe into the place the operative poofed and the operative have no way to leave that place fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Ummm no he can't Yes he can. Is has increased damage on smash, smashs dont use rage and have reduce cd. I do it all the time with my vengeance jugg. Maybe you should learn more about the game you are playing before screaming OP? Edited January 25, 2012 by GengisKahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carebear Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Plus... a juggernaut doesnt press 1 button and crit for 5 k, it takes him 4 global cooldowns to build the abilities to get the 5k crit, during which time you can run away stealth or do any other kinds of things. You press 1 button from stealth and boom 5k crit and 4s stun...I see the resemblance. Actually, it's a 3 second stun that fills your resolve bar. If you have trinket up, you can easily turn around and easily kill the operative. Even if you don't, just use a knockback if you have one and kite or any melee can just turn and kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So your solution is to not have stealth burst classes. That is fine and well within logical reason, but this isn't your game. It is bioware's and they have implemented stealth burst classes. They have also distributed tools to counter them very nicely and liberally. EXACTLY!!! Bioware thinks you're OP, they're reducing your damage. I'm not the one whining on the forums about it. Please take your own advice and accept that Bioware feels the numbers are higher than intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) The only way smash/force sweep deals 5k crits is if u have both 4 ticks of singularity. Add the momentum ability which needs you to do a force leap/charge or zealous leap. Then it's a guaranteed crit. that takes 4 seconds to build 4 singularity + another global cooldown to do the charge, result: thats 3 global cooldowns before you can crit for 5k If you did a 5k crit with smash without singularity that was on a lvl 10 or a naked player. Edited January 25, 2012 by aleiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Your opener doesn't have a 2 min cooldown unlike the cc breaker. Opener HAS to be from stealth. Vanish has a 2 min cool down. So yeah, it kind works out the same wouldnt you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The only way smash/force sweep deals 5k crits is if u have both 4 ticks of singularity. Add the momentum ability which needs you to do a force leap/charge or zealous leap. Then it's a guaranteed crit. that takes 4 seconds to build 4 singularity + another global cooldown to do the charge, result: thats 3 global cooldowns before you can crit for 5k If you did a 5k crit with smash without singularity that was on a lvl 10 or a naked player. Wrong, you can have 5k crits by stacking surge (the same operatives have to do to have their 5k opener crit) and of course you have to crit and dont rely on a 100% crit (which operatives dont have either). So when you crit, by stacking surge, you will crit for 5k, when you dont crit, you dont get the 5k crit, the same as the operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Opener HAS to be from stealth. Vanish has a 2 min cool down. So yeah, it kind works out the same wouldnt you say? Vanish has 3 min cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crujido Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If I had fraps I would. I can post screenshots of 4.9k hits and others within 3 seconds though on my fully geared champion sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushbits Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Vanish has 3 min cd. Not talented though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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