Repefe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have no problem with hybrids, but having 40k healing and topping the damage charts shouldn't be happening every game. 40k healing woah ... that's like nothing. You heal yourself 4 times after a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) you would think so many sorcs would have meant an instant win instead it was a 4-6 game Edited January 25, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaZZo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 FYI damage absorbed by static barrier (the bubble) counts towards healing, so 99% of the healing of a dps sorc you see is actually dmg absorb (not only self, on however said sorc's bubble is). A dps sorc /can't/ heal. 3 sec cast healing just isn't viable, the 1.5 sec one is just crap. You have better chances at surviving just running for your life. That leads to point b. Any SI that doesn't have healing done in that screenshot, simply isn't a sorc, more likely a sin. All that said. Sorcs might need to be looked at. TBH in the 50 bracket damage is perfectly fine, the problem is when you have too many sorcs around... you're just perma snared. Hell ofr a melee. One simple fix, make the slow on force lightning go, and making roots respect the resolve bar (srsly, this is just stupid, totally screws melee) Honestly, touching the rest of their CC *could* break the class, dmg wise sorcs feel a bit slower than mercs, and definately not as bursty as slingers/snipers, they put on good pressure with the occasional burst (on low armor fellas), yet they wear light armor and have the smallest hp pool. Seems only fair to let 'em have some cc more than the other ranged ACs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Cruiser Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Actually, the problem at 50 for sages/sorcerers is no -20% defense cooldown like every other class gets. Characters with equal gear or better will cut through a sage like a hot knife through butter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall_Jack Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I am a BH shieldtech and sorc are OP, but I would say they do not heal too much, they do not damage too much and they do not cc too much, but all 3 combined is what makes them overpowered. A bad sorc is easy, these are the types that only know to find the button for lightning or those pebbles, but the good ones that use rotation will deal damage, cc, heal, cc, damage, cc, heal etc. it is far too hard to break them or keep up. I do feel people here ask for far too much nerfing to be done only a small change would be needed. Oh and for the nob saying that the BH pushes 1 button, all BH use rotations due to our heat. I quite literally use every single ability during PvP games, apart from shoulder slam and the heal that requires you to have a companion with you. In fact if you get good at rotations you will find out that BH cooldowns are too long and the heat management is very poor for the high level play. The random heat drop system, the shield not proccing for shieldtechs in PvP (=no heat dissipation, guard is your friend if you manage to buddy up with a healer), merc that lacks heat venting skills.... The RNG is the biggest b00n, it will eventually break your rotation and hardly will it ever improve a rotation as it mostly based on cooldowns. Luckily our aoe makes up a lot so it balances out a lot for me in warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogui Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Are you aware of the fact that assassins and sorcs have the same class symbol ? just asking. Yes but I'm testifying that they were all sorcs. Either that or the shadow was extremely... shadowy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogui Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yay, more Hyperbole. I played Warhammer, , I played in a duo with a friend, ironbreaker and ruinpriest. Best fight I was ever in, we won a 2 v 8. We routinely won 4-5 v 2's, matter of fact I don't remember a single time I ever lost anything less than 4 v 2. *THAT* was overpowered. BW were just like Sorc/sages in this game, cannon fodder if you knew what you were doing. Squishy as heck. Classes like this do well in unorganized play, but are nothing but a speedbump in any kind of organized PvP. Focus fire on squishy class = dead, nothing you can do about it. You got killed by a sorc, because there are a lot of them. The reason there are a lot of them, is because most of the classes in this game are a laughable jumble of skills that make no sense together. Most of the classes in this game have about 50%of the toolset rendered useless depending on spec, and that's a real issue that needs to be addressed. Nerfing the one class that doesn't seem like it was created by a combination of alcohol and dart boards is not the best solution to the problem. Given that we don't have any arena or ranked teams to worry about, this game should be balanced around PUG PVP - where sorcs do, and will continue to, dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogui Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ah Warhammer. Comparisons between thee and this game always make me chuckle. Not because of the obvious correlation between Bright Wizards and Sorcs. But because people complain about PvP here being 'unbalanced'. I played a Shadow Warrior in Warhammer. You people have no idea what unbalanced means. Why would you even do that to yourself? Then again, many people would agree that I'm currently playing the weakest class out there. I'm optimistic though and I think this game is relatively balanced compared to others at release... at least put our animations on part with Imperial snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I saw that screenshot and shuddered, I too remember the bad old days of WAR when BW's could loldot everything that moved and get a quick two kills for the price of one by throwing playing with fire on a DoT'ed target that was being healed....then we got the Sorcs with the Hand of IWin spec following. I still laugh at there terrible argument "just cleanse the dots"....it reminds me of the just interupt argument in so many ways (being that cleanse only removed 2 hostile spells a time and was cooldown based and also removed the oldest hostile spells first, dots were not....sounds oddly familar....cooldown based vs no cooldown, hrm) Now all I'm waiting for is a Choppa type class to make our Black Orc type class (Guardian/Jugger) obsolete....then as Vader would put it "The circle would be completed" Edited January 25, 2012 by Zarthorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkonwing Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) You misinterpret my post. The theme of seeing 8 sorcs on a team reminded me of a similar class made by many of the same people balancing PvP for this game. In that old game (Warhammer Online), Bright Wizards (and their mirror) were a badly broken class, yet it took the developers WAY WAY WAY too long to properly tone down the class. Meanwhile on the forums, legions of Bright Wizards (many of whom switched to them because it was the flavor of the... 6 months) would harass and insult anyone who pointed out how badly OP they were. Seeing many of the same class on one team could just be a coincidence. But from what I've seen, with ops/scoundrels being nerfed... everyone is breaking out a sorc/sage because they are simply a better package than the other ranged classes. I don't think i misinterpreted your post in the first place, but maybe i was a little to vague about my statment. Can't say a thing about brightwizards, but i know balance is tough business. The quantity of sorcs in this game is not a trend of power but a trend of style. Although i have to admit sorcs can be really strong.. as i mentioned in my post before, can every other class in the game. The problem with sorcs is: they are just to simple to play. You don't really need skill for a good dmg output and really good people deal huge amounts of dmg and use their tools(stuns, slows, sprint, etc.) correct.(as does every other class) The same thing is true for say Mercenaries/Commandos.The reason everybody blames them for beeing OP is because of tracer missile/grav. spam. It's nearly the same with Force Lightning. Sure you deal additional dmg if you apply some DoT's before nuking the target, or use some builder to push the dmg of different abilities, in general: use somekind of rotation... but with those two classes this is not necessary(tracer/lightning spam). You can literally faceroll those two and will still do decent dmg. To those that complain about the CC: every class gets a stun and a disrupt ability and some get 1 additional Mez-CC and maybe some kind of slow(and thats it, sorc doesn't have more than that). The definition of Mage Class = Squishy but toolset to survive(and opposed to what people say: 16% dmg reduction trough armor = really squishy). Oh yeah forgot about the epic Heal.. 1,5 sec casttime = 1k hp, 2,5 sec casttime = ~2,5k hp(DD specced anyway).. why even bother interrupting the heal when your next dmg ability does more dmg anyway *facepalm* don't let a sorc get away from you. Edited January 25, 2012 by Falkonwing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chungkuo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You should have to focus fire healers to take them down. Given equal gear and skill a single dps shouldn't be able to kill a healer. Healers are not OP in this game. Two dps with one brain cell each can burn down a healer even if he has a tank guarding him and taunting. Assuming the dps use said brain cell and focus the damn healer, instead of spreading their damage over 5 different targets like they are practicing for a bukkake scene. This doesn't change the problem that Sorc/Sages are out of whack. It's way too much control, damage, and mitigation in the same package. It needs to be tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrix Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The sorcerer is overpowered yet from the screenshot the powertech was the most successful ... so how are they overpowered? I think people are focuses on the wrong things when they deem such and such needs nerfing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_krall Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) http://i.imgur.com/AubIC.jpg The sage/sorc mirror here isn't as bad as the Bright Wizards are, but it's pretty obvious they offer a "better package" than almost any other class in this game, they have versatility in spec and yet have no problem pumping out more damage than even a "pure" DPS class like me (Gunslinger) while dropping 10-40k heals when the pressure is on. Sorc bubble counts as a heal from what i can tell. I can not throw a heal all game but because i spam bubble on whoever i see when i get the chance i can get 50k healing easily. EVERY CLASS IS OP. EVERY CLASS HAS SOMETHING OR A COMBO OF THINGS THAT IS OP. STOP POSTING **** Edited January 25, 2012 by da_krall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushbits Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We need a nerf. Not a huge one Careful now. Operatives said the same thing and look what that got them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Now that the forum crusaders got Operatives nerfed, who do you think people will cry about the most? Sorc/Sage has been broken for a long time. If people whine enough they'll get nerfed, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaintedSquirrel Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 People play Sorcerer because of lightning, not because of OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Chrome Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 LOL AOE is fun when the other team doesnt run out of the giant blue/red circle on the ground that makes AOEs so easy to avoid in this game. Sorcs Are powerful but they are not the faceroll that OPs or Scoundrels are. you cant interrupt when you are face down on the ground listening to Shink Shink Shink!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 LOL AOE is fun when the other team doesnt run out of the giant blue/red circle on the ground that makes AOEs so easy to avoid in this game. Sorcs Are powerful but they are not the faceroll that OPs or Scoundrels are. you cant interrupt when you are face down on the ground listening to Shink Shink Shink!! I'm just glad that with the amount of AoE in this game, Bioware didn't add anything like the Engineer magnet....bad times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaffy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We need a nerf. Not a huge one, but we should have to sacrifice some damage to have the cc we have. We can't outheal damage specced as a dps. That's bs. thats BS. i cant even outheal an equally geared person when im heal specced, let alone when im dps specced. and believe or not, more dmg means sacrificing some cc too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaffy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 not all ppl in your screenshots are sorcerers, they just share the same icon, notice how they have 0 healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Bright Wizards weren't really the problem... the problem was that half their spells were invisible- which is why I can't take this seriously- you can see sorc aoe perfectly clear, if anything, Sages are the ones closer to bright wizards- their aoe hits just as hard, but you only get a blue circle that indicates some sort of aoe is there, and if you're paying attention you'll see distortion effects- lightning storm is very obvious. Not that you should stand in aoe to begin with. Bright Wizards though- problem was their aoes stacked and you could have five bright wizards aoe an attacking group- and there would be no animation and you'd just see your health ticking away. If the animations had worked- no, BW weren't OP, they were extremely squishy, their sole OPedness came from bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Bright Wizards weren't really the problem... the problem was that half their spells were invisible- which is why I can't take this seriously- you can see sorc aoe perfectly clear, if anything, Sages are the ones closer to bright wizards- their aoe hits just as hard, but you only get a blue circle that indicates some sort of aoe is there, and if you're paying attention you'll see distortion effects- lightning storm is very obvious. Not that you should stand in aoe to begin with. Bright Wizards though- problem was their aoes stacked and you could have five bright wizards aoe an attacking group- and there would be no animation and you'd just see your health ticking away. If the animations had worked- no, BW weren't OP, they were extremely squishy, their sole OPedness came from bugs. Nah they were definatley OP, thats why there were such things as BW bomb squads and BG dotbots, by far the easiest RvR class as the entire system was seemingly built around them.... And suprise suprise, the same guy responsible for the BW moved to Trion and made the Pyro, whom at Rifts release was every bit as ugly as it's redheaded cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrustyDog Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yes. This does remind me of bright wizards and of early vanilla rogues. A lot of classes are in denial about what IS overpowered and what is NOT overpowered. This goes even for people trying to get the classes nerfed. It's somewhat amusing. But honestly? I think maybe people need to just sit back, relax, and let everyone get geared up so we can really see what's what when rateds hit. Balance really doesn't matter that much in pugs, it DOES matter in rateds. Ret Pallys right as WoTLK was released, oh and Arcane Mages at the same period of time. It was just stupid to be anything else at that time. There will be balancing, anyone who doesnt think so is naive. The fact that 8 man teams are often to be found with 6 sorc's and 2 bh's ought to be a clue. I swear some people would play a rat if it was op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindor Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Dot spec sorc/sage got too much tools compared to their survivability ( light armor is like 10% more damage than heavy ) and DPS, Imho. but nothing game breaking 1 snare - 12 sec CD 1 ranged stun - 1 min CD 1 instant cyclone, that stun for 2sec if broke - 1 min CD 1 knockback - 20 sec CD 1 interupt - 12 sec CD 1 sprint - 30 sec CD 1 root - 9 sec CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistressBria Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So..my main is a Sorc, about 45 now, I am full hardcore heal spec, all my gear is alacrity and power and every piece is Willpower heavy, my BAD games are when I don't get 5 medals or more, 75k healing, 75k damage, 10 and 25 kills, 2.5k heal and killing blow are for me required for me to consider a match well played on my part. Now, in my opinion, that's very very wrong. I should not as a healer be able to get 25 + kills and 75k dmg/heals with 0-2 deaths. Maybe it's because I'm 45 in a 1-49 bracket, idk but that seems wrong to me. I'm one Sorc who is in support of a Sorc nerf. Also, I loved Warhammer to death, and maybe all the BW mirrors on my server just sucked, idk, but what always gave me the most trouble was the sodding DoKs, I'd melt BW mirrors np on my KoTB and Engi *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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