Payneintherear Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No. Every single time you are left alone for 20s, double bubble will be available. And if you leave me alone for 30s, I can't double bubble, as the old one has expired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qanlayeni Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Anecdotal evidence as well. Everyone has an exceptional game once in a while. I had 400k with my Sentinel once, doesn't mean I can do it all the time. But yeah, nice job. DPS spec did DPS. I can though, every single game i get 300k dmg, even in huttball and civil war, want me to post more screenshots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You can kill most DPS easily, you make it sound like you have zero damage. It's not top of the line DPS, but it's good enough to kill a target 1v1 in the long run. I've never killed a DPS 1v1 that I can remember. Any dps which can't kill a HEAL sorcerer doesn't deserve a say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) And if you leave me alone for 30s, I can't double bubble, as the old one has expired. Why does everyone try to make it sound like you are complete idiots who don't know how to play their character? Oh right, you are trying to convince us double bubble on top of CC, sprint and heals is perfectly normal, I forgot. How hard is it to go near the battle, pre-cast and join in with big lightning. Surely someone will jump you within 10-15s, if they don't, it's free DPS. Or are you suggesting we should let you DPS and attack you only once the first bubble is down? And I'll also be the first to admit in 2-3 weeks a particular Marauders/Sentinel spec will need readjusting. It's coming to us as well, you'll see. Just need a few more people with Battlemaster equipment. Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Why does everyone try to make it sound like you are complete idiots who don't know how to play their character? Do you seriously think we are stupid enough to believe you'll be constantly making that mistake? How hard is it to go near the battle, pre-cast and join in with big lightning. Surely someone will jump you within 10-15s, if they don't, it's free DPS. Or are you suggesting we should let you DPS and attack you only once the first bubble is down? You are the one arguing you leave me alone for 20s, not me. For every time I am left alone for 20s, there's another time where I get jumped as soon as put my first bubble up and another time when I am attacked right as it runs out. So yeah, 33% of the time, you can double-bubble. Welcome to 3 pages ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) You are the one arguing you leave me alone for 20s, not me. For every time I am left alone for 20s, there's another time where I get jumped as soon as put my first bubble up and another time when I am attacked right as it runs out. So yeah, 33% of the time, you can double-bubble. Welcome to 3 pages ago. And once again you can skew those odds in your favor, making it more like 90% than 33%. Welcome to 2 pages ago as well. Theory and practice, 2 different things totally. Either you completely suck at your Sorcerer and the noobs (supposedly compared to you) I'm facing everyday just so happened to only master this particular skill. Or I think it's most likely you just don't want to admit the truth on how easy it is to get it done. Who would want his tools nerfed? Not me. Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 And once again you can skew those odds in your favor, making it more like 90% than 33%. By dying every 30 seconds... What is it with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) By dying every 30 seconds... What is it with you? Or being left alone 20s. We keep doing a 360° Answer this : Why should dieing or being left alone for 20s be such an absurd advantage over another class who died or was left alone for the same amount of time? (Sentinel/Marauder aside, like I said, nerf is coming eventually too). Each class is different, that would be correct, but I also believe you have largely enough tools at your disposal to survive without needing that little trick of yours since it's only 33% of the time or so you say. Truth be told, if it was really 33% of the time, you wouldn't care if it was taken away or not. it's because you have been abusing it almost constantly for months you don't want it removed. Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 3k Damage is absurb?w Can I not reapply my bubble to another class, like a good healer providing them with the same apparent advantage? I may have been "abusing" it for months, but truth be told I still get spanked by any DPS class worth his weight. So without this "absurd abusive" feature, I would likely be a floor matt for people to wipe their feet on, as they progress to the next toon to beat on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kholvan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) You can kill most DPS easily, you make it sound like you have zero damage. It's not top of the line DPS, but it's good enough to kill a target 1v1 in the long run. Not in less than 90 seconds. You do have medpacks, right? If I had an pack that caused you 5k damage with a 90 second cooldown, yes - in that case I could kill you. Yes, I can kill fresh 50s with no expertise gear while I'm in my champion set. I have two instant damage spells. One is a DoT which does about 20% of most classes health over 15 seconds and doesn't stack. The other has a 6 second cooldown and being instant, is pretty weak, between 3-4% if you're not a tank and less if you are. These are the only two damage abilities I can use without your permission (by not interrupting or LoSing them). I'll grant you that most people prefer to interrupt my heals, since they're obsessed with killing me, and not defending themselves. This is dumb in 1v1 because I only use one heal that's longer than the GCD and I always get the first tick of that 3 sec channel, so they're basically consuming one GCD to stop me for one GCD. During this, you're hitting me, so I have to alternate between healing and damage. The thing is, my heals require chaining. I have to use Resurgence before Dark Infusion (in order to keep that cast time under the GCD as previously noted). I have to use Consumption after Innervate in order to not go out-of-force. I have to refresh the bubble that so upsets you. I have to stun and interrupt you. So I have to use significantly more non-damage abilities than damage ones. You get 4-5k from your medpack at some point early in the fight. I can't get through 20k HP while only casting my wimpy instant damager once every 4 GCDs in 90 seconds. Not if you use your CCs to take some of those GCDs out. If you let me use more powerful damage spells on you every 4 GCDs, it's a different story ... but you can interrupt every 5 GCDs, right? And that's just the interrupt ability, not counting stuns and knockbacks which interrupt me as well. I can get close if you don't do anything defensive, or having any heals yourself, or cleanse my DoT, or use adrenals, or use relics, or decide to stealth away, or get a friend to come help and I pop my relics and my +critical cooldowns, though. Edited January 25, 2012 by Kholvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halbe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Found this on the FoH board (I'm not a poster there, just love the banter) If they don't do the easy thing and nerf Sorcs -OR- the hard thing and buff pretty much everyone else, then the end-game (bad pvp or lame raids, take your pick, wheeee) doesn't have a chance to thrive. Easy content is boring, but any "hard content" will have to be balanced around having 2 Sorc healers, since a raid with 2 Sorcs will make an encounter balanced for 2 Ops look playschool-easy. I'm not saying Op healing is unmanageable, I've solo-healed Bonethrasher HM as an Op, but there is a huuuge disparity (20% +/- 5%) between it and Sorcerer healing and that is just in the raw numbers. Sorcerers have tools that make them even better for non-quantitative reasons. First of all, they have shields. In a worst-case example, imagine a boss that can hit for 25k with all damage reduction buffs in-play and a fully geared tank has 24k. You simply cannot beat that theoretical encounter without a shield. There are of course many realistic scenarios that are similar (Soa HM/NMM for instance), but clearly not as pronounced. Second, AOE healing. While it's an easy part of the encounter no matter what, the healing difficulty when falling down the stairs on Soa is laughable with a Sorc and pesky with 2 non-sorcs. Third, they just all around have more utility with grabs/kbs/sprint and better hard CC (Ops aren't bad at soft CC though). Speaking of pvp-only comes the issue of interrupts. Ops are out of commission after an interrupt on their main heal unless they have TA up. The only thing that really screws up a Sorc's ability to heal is interrupting Innervate, which is non-intuitive to do and hardly anyone in a pug would ever do it. BH healers fair well in pvp too, but have nowhere near the output of sorcs; heavy armor and interrupt immunity is enough to put Ops to shame. Stealth does not come close to making up for a single thing listed in pvp. I'm sure the DPS class balance is just as embarrassing and I'm almost positive it's a major reason why they haven't released a damage meter yet. Sure concealment Ops had it coming, but they deserve to lose a lot of Op subs after the nerf, since it's really not fun for the unlucky receiver of the nerfbat once the circus is over. Concealment should have never made it to live in the state it did, I don't even have to say how retarded it is to be able to do 75% of someone's life routinely and occasionally kill them out-right if you have a few buffs stacked. Meanwhile, tracer missiles and sorcs are still untouched and unmentioned in official posts. Could you imagine the forum rage after the post detailing how a T2 BH simply spamming tracer missile outdamages a T2 lethality op doing a proper rotation? I am not even someone who believes that perfect balance is necessary for a good game (except for maybe the whiniest of casuals) as long as each class is at least the best at something. EQ was awesome. Vanilla WoW was awesome in my opinion too. That is just not the case here. Here you have Sorc and BHs in pretty much every good makeup while you're often shooting yourself in the foot by bringing melee and non-sorc healers. This whole game is a travesty of good design and balance. Ilum is obviously an ego trip; the only way such a **** hole could be designed is for a developer to think they can do no wrong and that anything they try will work. It's ridiculously bad and yet the incentive to put up with it is so high that people pretty much have to do it anyway if they want to progress quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekerofpower Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have 1 of each class (separate ACs with the opposite factions) and I have not found any class to be more OP than any other. A good player can play well with any class. Crappy players will have trouble with any class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdnyc Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have 1 of each class (separate ACs with the opposite factions) and I have not found any class to be more OP than any other. A good player can play well with any class. Crappy players will have trouble with any class. It's not the class itself. It's the number players of a specific class with all it's utility. You can interrupt one. You can't interrupt 3 of them. And they will stunlock you all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsubodia Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It's not the class itself. It's the number players of a specific class with all it's utility. You can interrupt one. You can't interrupt 3 of them. And they will stunlock you all day long. yeh but you cant claim a class is op just because there is more of them in a bg when individually they are fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posixgod Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have 1 of each class (separate ACs with the opposite factions) and I have not found any class to be more OP than any other. A good player can play well with any class. Crappy players will have trouble with any class. This... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kholvan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) It's not the class itself. It's the number players of a specific class with all it's utility. You can interrupt one. You can't interrupt 3 of them. And they will stunlock you all day long. The Sith Empire attracts players who want to be bad-A (the full word is nerfed by the filter). The biggest bad-A in Star Wars lore is Palpatine. He took over the freakin' galaxy. Palpatine is the model for the sorcerer class. The inquisitor video even ends with the words "unlimited power". The second biggest bad-A is arguably the Sith Emperor ... who also appears to be a sorcerer. Maybe Revan or Vader gets the #2 spot, yet you can't play a Jedi-who-became-a-Sith, so it doesn't really matter. The Fetts don't hold a candle to these guys, and there's no IAs at all in the movies. Maul might be cool for being a zabrak and having a double blade saber, but all he really accomplishes is killing Qui-Gon and getting beat by an apprentice. If you want to know why there's a lot of sorcs, there's your answer. Edited January 25, 2012 by Kholvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desgarden Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 yeh but you cant claim a class is op just because there is more of them in a bg when individually they are fine Nope, players usually take the underdog classes and not the alpha classes. I mean who wants to be a winner and go Rambo! Therefore I totally agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntranced Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The Sith Empire attracts players who want to be bad-A (the full word is nerfed by the filter). The biggest bad-A in Star Wars lore is Palpatine. He took over the freakin' galaxy. Palpatine is the model for the sorceror class. The inquisitor video even ends with the words "unlimited power". The second biggest bad-A is arguably the Sith Emperor ... who also appears to be a sorceror. Maybe Revan or Vader gets the #2 spot, yet you can't play a Jedi-who-became-a-Sith, so it doesn't really matter. The Fetts don't hold a candle to these guys, and there's no IAs at all in the movies. Maul might be cool for being a zabrak and having a double blade saber, but all he really accomplishes is killing Qui-Gon and getting beat by an apprentice. If you want to know why there's a lot of sorcs, there's your answer. That's an excellent and well thought out post. But the main reason there is a lot of sorcs is: we shoot lightning! how cool is that? I mean apart from having laser beams come out of our eyes or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Given the chance, I would happily re-roll after seeing how well my guildees/friends play on their chacters, Marauders, Powertechs and Merc's look fun as hell. But to be honest, leveling in this game bores me to death and the thought of having to redo Hoth and Belsavis alone put me off re-leveling. Hell even the Assasin and Juggernaut look fun. I chose the Sith Sorcerer, without any background knowledge of the game, I just noticed they had healing abilities and that was what I wanted to do. Give me a free respec and I would change to another class in a heartbeat. But the grind.... well I didn't enjoy spending 7 days of space-bar mashing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Nope, players usually take the underdog classes and not the alpha classes. I mean who wants to be a winner and go Rambo! Therefore I totally agree with you For many, people don't have enough depth/understanding of the game to be able to make that kind of judgement of the first month of release. As I said above, give me the option to class respec and I would. I just don't want to PvE for another 7/8 days just to PvP again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Found this on the FoH board (I'm not a poster there, just love the banter) he forgot the part where arsenal mercs are glass cannons and have almost no utility to escape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halbe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) he forgot the part where arsenal mercs are glass cannons and have almost no utility to escape THAT's what you took from that? This, right here, is the problem. Players have been conditioned to fear the "nerf bat". They disregard obvious problems and produce strawman arguments to try to validate their stance. I don't care that they have no utility to escape right now. That's not the initial problem. The problem is, and there is a YouTube video out there right now that shows this, you really only need one button to be successful. That's it. That is not right. It is not balanced. Balancing does not always == Nerf. You need to balance the skill in question within the class. Does that mean nerfing one skill and doing nothing else? No. That means taking the class on a hole, removing the issue in question, and figuring out what else needs to be done to alleviate the problem. You're trying to defend the idea that standing in one place, hitting one button, is acceptable. It is not. I don't care that they ahve no utility to get away at this point. Fix the problem, identify others. Don't knee-jerk and just nerf the one ability. Make sure everything else is on point as well. Oh, they aren't just a one-button pressing turret? So now how to be balance in the classes other abilities to make sure they are still a viable option? Pointing at another issue and saying, "This is why you can't fix that problem, because of this problem." is just assinine. Fix both problems. Edited January 25, 2012 by Halbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBoz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Again with the fifteen times shut down video? Oh lol... Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halbe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Again with the fifteen times shut down video? Oh lol... Sad. I assume you're making fun of my video reference? It's hard to see with all the fail in your post blocking my view. I saw in the other thread where you tried calling the guy out for being in a premade. If you watch that video and can't realize that it is a PUG from the git-go, you're not nearly the player you think you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) THAT's what you took from that? This, right here, is the problem. Players have been conditioned to fear the "nerf bat". They disregard obvious problems and produce strawman arguments to try to validate their stance. I don't care that they have no utility to escape right now. That's not the initial problem. The problem is, and there is a YouTube video out there right now that shows this, you really only need one button to be successful. That's it. That is not right. It is not balanced. Balancing does not always == Nerf. You need to balance the skill in question within the class. Does that mean nerfing one skill and doing nothing else? No. That means taking the class on a hole, removing the issue in question, and figuring out what else needs to be done to alleviate the problem. You're trying to defend the idea that standing in one place, hitting one button, is acceptable. It is not. I don't care that they ahve no utility to get away at this point. Fix the problem, identify others. Don't knee-jerk and just nerf the one ability. Make sure everything else is on point as well. Oh, they aren't just a one-button pressing turret? So now how to be balance in the classes other abilities to make sure they are still a viable option? Pointing at another issue and saying, "This is why you can't fix that problem, because of this problem." is just assinine. Fix both problems. i seem to be seeing this type of post a lot so ill go ahead with my normal reply: Tracer Missle Heat Seaking Missles Unload Electro-Dart Rail Shot Rocket Punch Explosive Dart Jet Boost Energy Shield Cure Rapid Scan Power Surge Concussion Missle Stealth Scan Death From Above Sweeping Blasters PvP trinket Vent Heat Hunter's boon Buff pot Healing pot Throw Huttball that is the list of skills i use in EVERY huttball game my rotation: -1v1: unload > tracer x3 > heat seekers > tracer x2 > rail shot > unload (when proc) > missile blast (if they try to run away) w/ electro dart, jet boost, and rocket punch added in when needed -large group: explosive dart > fusion missile > death from above > sweeping blasters > missile blast (if i have any heat left) kinda nice to have TWO rotations huh? my original point is that TM is all we have right now. we dont get a shield on a 20 sec cd, a stun on a consistent 4 sec cd, a knockbback with a root, an incombat speed modifier, a leap that lets us jump platforms, or a "pull" that pulls people into traps, helps teammates onto ledges, and resets a leap. we are a class thats set up to be immobile and have no escapability and yet people want to nerf the one thing we have going for us? we're not balanced because other classes need to be balanced, im tired of being obliterated by everyone else 1v1 or having them kite/los me and then ************ later that im op, arsenal doesnt get half the **** other classes get. check your fallacies at the door plz Edited January 25, 2012 by Cegenaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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