Sorcerer Nerf....

[LiteFighter]

The sith sorceror is SOOO OP, and really needs a nerf, much bigger in my opinion than the smugglar/opperative. at least the 3 out of 5 top dps in EVERY stinkin pvp match I am in the sorceror is the top DPS. The class imbalance is really making me want to quit this game, not to mention the population imbalance, WAY TOO MANY IMPS!!!!

[Halbe]

The point of pvp is it is not balanced around 1v1 when will people get that. everyone thinks that if you cant fight another class 1v1 then you are not working. b/s a healer should be able to heal and get away from people but not do a tun of dmg. they should be able to help get a kill or attack in some way but they should be healing.

 

stop trying to think that skill is being good at 1v1. it is not.

 

I hate this freaking argument.

 

Then what is it? Working wtih other classes? What if you're composition has 10x the synergy as the group you're going against? Does that make you more skilled?

 

When you are talking about balancing classes, you have to remove skill from the equation. You need to remove groups from the equation (at first).

 

The first level of balance should be, "If two players of equal skill face off, what happens?". You then add other variables like group size and environment to that equation, making sure neither totally skews the balance.

 

I know, it's fun to make a statement and not actually provide any answers. Saying balance isn't based on "1v1" is that type of fun, but then what's it based around?

[Necrolepsy]

Yes I've noticed how absurd it is, especially when they spam heal themselves better than most commando medics can while the sorceror is dps specced.

 

Sadly, I don't think Bioware will do anything about it because the class that's played the most is always treated like the favourite among MMO devs so they keep their subscriptions and don't whinge.

 

It's a sad MMO world we live in.

[Ellyll]

Are people seriously complaining about sorc/sage shields? They last 1-2 hits. They are not spammable unless you put points into healer, and they are not recastable on yourself for about half a minute.

 

I think if there is one problem with sage/sorc it's that the best single target healing abilities are near the bottom of the healing tree. This makes it so you can have decent healing and good damage at the same time.

 

This also penalizes you for going deep healing, because the only thing you gain at 31 points is a 2 sec cast 15 sec cd interruptable aoe heal. And if you are a sorc it is currently broken.

 

Take this for example.

 

http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-consular/sage/?p=230320210210000000002000000000000000003220322131001102000

 

This is a sage version of lightening spam. It does the same damage, just not with the fancy graphic. (Rocks actually seem to produce less "PvP agro" than lightening for the same damage)

 

You will notice that it has the 1.5-2.5 cast deliverance w/ physical debuff removing restoration, and spamable shields with only 16 points in healing.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ellyll

[Acyu]

I think most people are either forgetting or do not know about sorcerer's "conversion" spell.

 

This spell trades 15% HP for 7% force.

 

This is how most, if not ALL, DPS sorcerers stack their healing for the 2.5K heal and 75K total medals.

 

Note that DPS sorcerers do this while they are OUT OF COMBAT, by casting conversion a few times to get their HP low then healing themselves back up. This is especially prevalent in Alderaan while "defending" a node.

 

Why does this matter? Because healing gained via this is not affected by the trauma debuff (-30% healing). Which means 75K or even 100K healing can come really fast. In fact, when I was first starting to PvP at 50 (I am now a healer), this can be done in around 3 minutes. NOTE: Conversion doesn't count as "damage done."

 

Other than medal stacking, the "100K healing" done by DPS sorcerers contribute absolutely NOTHING to the actual warzone. While a sorcerer is doing this, it means they are doing nothing else, in their own little corner, other than medal stacking - contributing nothing to their team. They're not actually being OP, because none of the healing is actually going to the team, and in fact, their heal would be absolute CRAP as a DPS sorcerer in actual battle situations because of the cast time and trauma debuff.

 

This mechanic, along with the "videos" people made on youtube showing others how to do this, is a BIG reason why there are so many 300K/100K DPS sorcerers out there.

 

Sadly, sorcerer is the ONLY class that can do this "exploit" while others actually have to go out and heal others who take actual damage.

 

Conversion, however, should not be "removed" from the game because it plays a big part for actual "healing specced" sorcerers. Perhaps make it a healing talent, or something to make it "bad" for DPS sorcerers since they don't run out of force to begin with.

 

So unless you see a sorcerer having 150K+ or even 200K+ healing in warzones, those sorcerers with over 75K or 100K healing are most likely selfish medal stackers, and of no importance.

 

You should NEVER take into account "healing done" on a DPS sorcerer as a factor of them being "OP." The actual healing these DPS sorcerers do in warzones is similar to other DPS healing-capable classes otherwise.

 

 

Edit: I KNOW shield adds to healing too. But you are delusional if you think DPS sorcerers spam shield on CD on others, or even themselves, when they are not taking damage and just off spamming force lightning. If a DPS sorcerer is not taking damage, he's not shielding. It's not worth getting off their tunnel-visioning spree to keep shield on even themselves at all times when they can be PEW PEWing

Edited January 25, 2012 by Acyu

[jtfone]

Nope. I suggest that the amount of "I do everything" for Sorcs gets toned down. Reduce healing for damage specs, reduce damage for healing spec. Take a 2nd look at CC, they dont need so many.

 

Scoundrels/Ops are getting nerfed becouse they can kill a person without this person having a chance to do anything about it. This may hurt Ops DPS in PvE and I actually believe this also needs to be look into (take away burst, buff sustained?).

 

Sorcs needs to ne nerfed in PvP simply becouse they get godlike combo of damage/healing/utility compared to all other classes.

 

Aweus you are going to get tons of bad sorc's defending there class. The good ones admit the class is completely op and needs to be adjusted for the good of the game in pvp.

 

This shield needs to be nerfed or given a higher cd. The cc/sprint combos need to be looked at as well.

[Ellyll]

Aweus you are going to get tons of bad sorc's defending there class. The good ones admit the class is completely op and needs to be adjusted for the good of the game in pvp.

 

This shield needs to be nerfed or given a higher cd. The cc/sprint combos need to be looked at as well.

 

I agree that a change needs to be made, read above. But seriously, why does everyone hate the shield so much? It is laughably weak. Is it flahsbacks to bubble pallys from wow?

 

It is enough to handle one or two decent hits every 20 seconds. That really isn't that much.

[Acyu]

Aweus you are going to get tons of bad sorc's defending there class. The good ones admit the class is completely op and needs to be adjusted for the good of the game in pvp.

 

This shield needs to be nerfed or given a higher cd. The cc/sprint combos need to be looked at as well.

 

The shield is weak.

 

I hate the absolutely exaggerated numbers people give on how much the shield absorbs.

 

I am at ~250 expertise with the shield talent. My shield absorbs for less than 2500.

[diogolp]

I agree that a change needs to be made, read above. But seriously, why does everyone hate the shield so much? It is laughably weak. Is it flahsbacks to bubble pallys from wow?

 

It is enough to handle one or two decent hits every 20 seconds. That really isn't that much.

 

Because no other class can pop an instant "heal" like that so fast without speccing deep into their healing tree. BH mercs have emergency heal every 30 seconds, but that is 31 points down the healing tree. 3k every half a minute is a huge thing when you also have ccs and self heals.

[Belzuba]

No nerf needed, i tried several sorc builds and the DPS ones are the worse, yeah they can put some nice numbers in the results table, but do it really contributes the team? No..

 

If you forget about AOE, speccing into pure DPS will give you around 30% increase of DPS, but you loose complete heal utility.. Your choice.

 

Any good player can cut through the sorc, and having 500-700k dmg after voidstar? AOE with pocket healer? THanks, i am glad the person do not play on our server, screwing team play over his stupid personal stats.

[Acyu]

Aweus you are going to get tons of bad sorc's defending there class. The good ones admit the class is completely op and needs to be adjusted for the good of the game in pvp.

 

This shield needs to be nerfed or given a higher cd. The cc/sprint combos need to be looked at as well.

 

If you cannot handle a 2500 shield every 20 seconds (or 17 with 2-piece PvP), then we have a problem.

 

The point is to NOT randomly cast stun on targets. Nor should people be surprised or frustrated that a sorcerer "shields" right when he was "about to die."

 

The shield is on a debuff cooldown. Watch the debuff, it is not hard. When it is about to be finished, stun. This will make them NOT be able to renew their shield.

[Maleficium]

If you cannot handle a 2500 shield every 20 seconds (or 17 with 2-piece PvP), then we have a problem.

 

The point is to NOT randomly cast stun on targets. Nor should people be surprised or frustrated that a sorcerer "shields" right when he was "about to die."

 

The shield is on a debuff cooldown. Watch the debuff, it is not hard. When it is about to be finished, stun. This will make them NOT be able to renew their shield.

 

 

THIS MAN IS A BLOODY GENIUS!

 

no seriously. There is a marauder on my server that does exactly this. Unless I have someone actively defending me while I kite him around he poops on my chest in 1v1 situations.

 

All you melee that have problems with the shield need to learn from these 2 players.

[Adzzy]

Note that DPS sorcerers do this while they are OUT OF COMBAT, by casting conversion a few times to get their HP low then healing themselves back up. This is especially prevalent in Alderaan while "defending" a node.

 

Other than medal stacking, the "100K healing" done by DPS sorcerers contribute absolutely NOTHING to the actual warzone. While a sorcerer is doing this, it means they are doing nothing else, in their own little corner, other than medal stacking - contributing nothing to their team.

 

Yes sitting at a node, even if they are consumption heal spamming, sitting at the node is doing nothing for their team while every other noob runs off.

 

I'd rather them do that than run off and leave the node undefended like 90% of players do, but maybe that's just me.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Adzzy

[Lingalol]

A class that does constant damage but low burst should be topping the meters. IMO.

 

A class with the highest burst should be doing the most devastating pvp damage. Because burst is all that matters in pvp. But, Overall damage should be lower.

 

If you nerf sorc damage. You make the class useless. They top meters because of deathfield / CL on wrath procs.

[Ellyll]

Because no other class can pop an instant "heal" like that so fast without speccing deep into their healing tree. BH mercs have emergency heal every 30 seconds, but that is 31 points down the healing tree. 3k every half a minute is a huge thing when you also have ccs and self heals.

 

It isn't 3k. And BH's have heavy armor. We have slave outfits. I agree that changes have to be made but if you are attacking the shields it really makes me wonder.

 

A 31pt healing sage or sorc only gets 2 instant cast healing abilities, one is a hot, and the other heals for ~500 with a cleanse, and both have cool downs.

 

We have no non-interuptalbe heals that do jack. If you want to rearrange the tree that's fine, but getting rid of our one, count it one, instant heal that does jack would be bad.

[Spiritlord]

I agree that a change needs to be made, read above. But seriously, why does everyone hate the shield so much? It is laughably weak. Is it flahsbacks to bubble pallys from wow?

 

It is enough to handle one or two decent hits every 20 seconds. That really isn't that much.

 

It isn't the shield itself that's bad. It's the shield plus everything else they can do. It's the fact they seem to have the best synergy out of most of the other classes.

 

A bubble every 20 seconds is a lot in pvp when you aren't always in constant combat.

 

The biggest problem I have is in huttball when inquisitors have one of the best knockbacks, have a 30m stun, can bubble and do their speed increase while carrying the ball.

[Acyu]

Yes sitting at a node, even if they are consumption heal spamming, sitting at the node is doing nothing for their team while every other noob runs off.

 

I'd rather them do that than run off and leave the node undefended like 90% of players do, but maybe that's just me.

 

I find it hilarious that you think that way, especially when these "defending for the greater good" sorcerers RUN OFF as soon as they get 1K, 3K defender and 2.5K, 75K healing medals.

 

If these sorcerers STAY there the entire game, then yes, they're probably doing the team a good and were just trying to make sure they weren't totally screwed on medals.

 

Does that happen? Maybe. Does that happen often? Not likely.

[Borcen]

I think most people are either forgetting or do not know about sorcerer's "conversion" spell.

 

This spell trades 15% HP for 7% force.

 

This is how most, if not ALL, DPS sorcerers stack their healing for the 2.5K heal and 75K total medals.

 

Note that DPS sorcerers do this while they are OUT OF COMBAT, by casting conversion a few times to get their HP low then healing themselves back up. This is especially prevalent in Alderaan while "defending" a node.

 

Why does this matter? Because healing gained via this is not affected by the trauma debuff (-30% healing). Which means 75K or even 100K healing can come really fast. In fact, when I was first starting to PvP at 50 (I am now a healer), this can be done in around 3 minutes. NOTE: Conversion doesn't count as "damage done."

 

Other than medal stacking, the "100K healing" done by DPS sorcerers contribute absolutely NOTHING to the actual warzone. While a sorcerer is doing this, it means they are doing nothing else, in their own little corner, other than medal stacking - contributing nothing to their team. They're not actually being OP, because none of the healing is actually going to the team, and in fact, their heal would be absolute CRAP as a DPS sorcerer in actual battle situations because of the cast time and trauma debuff.

 

This mechanic, along with the "videos" people made on youtube showing others how to do this, is a BIG reason why there are so many 300K/100K DPS sorcerers out there.

 

Sadly, sorcerer is the ONLY class that can do this "exploit" while others actually have to go out and heal others who take actual damage.

 

Conversion, however, should not be "removed" from the game because it plays a big part for actual "healing specced" sorcerers. Perhaps make it a healing talent, or something to make it "bad" for DPS sorcerers since they don't run out of force to begin with.

 

So unless you see a sorcerer having 150K+ or even 200K+ healing in warzones, those sorcerers with over 75K or 100K healing are most likely selfish medal stackers, and of no importance.

 

You should NEVER take into account "healing done" on a DPS sorcerer as a factor of them being "OP." The actual healing these DPS sorcerers do in warzones is similar to other DPS healing-capable classes otherwise.

 

 

Edit: I KNOW shield adds to healing too. But you are delusional if you think DPS sorcerers spam shield on CD on others, or even themselves, when they are not taking damage and just off spamming force lightning. If a DPS sorcerer is not taking damage, he's not shielding. It's not worth getting off their tunnel-visioning spree to keep shield on even themselves at all times when they can be PEW PEWing

 

As a bounty hunter healer, seeing sorc do this pisses me off. They just hide and do nothing to get big heal numbers and idiots vote for them as MVP. My solution is to just heal them as they convert so I get the healing done. This naturally comes (every...single...time...) with the sorc calling me a noob, ***, kid, etc etc etc...

[KorwinOfAmber]

I played and pvped 5 classes, Sorcerers being my first but in the end switching to Assassin just because its more fun to play.

 

 

And i got to say, the most "nerf sorcs" threads look as poor troll threads to me or topics made by people that dont understand anything about the class at all.

 

Notice when complaining about other classes - theres always a valid complaint about specific ability and mechanic - nerf grav round, hidden strike and acid blade e.t.c.

 

What are complaints about sorcs? Apparently "they have too much utility". People cant pinpoint any single ability that is "overpowered" and what changes should be made. People cant claim "sorcs are OP since they kill me in seconds". so their complaint is -... "sorcs are OP since they get away from me and not let me kill them easily".

 

To that, half the people seriously seems to think Sorc have 60 talent points and is same class as Assassin.

 

Sigh.. i cant even tell people to l2p so they woudnt be killed by sorcs, since if they ARE killed by sorcs 1on1 theres nothing i could tell them but unsubscribe and try something like tetris instead.

[Acyu]

As a bounty hunter healer, seeing sorc do this pisses me off. They just hide and do nothing to get big heal numbers and idiots vote for them as MVP. My solution is to just heal them as they convert so I get the healing done. This naturally comes (every...single...time...) with the sorc calling me a noob, ***, kid, etc etc etc...

 

Haha yeah, I've had my share of other healers trying to heal me while I do this I just LoS them.

 

But seriously, as a healing specced sorcerer, if I am stuck defending a node (which I really do not like), and I do this little conversion trick, I can easily get 300K healing medal with 1/3 of the warzone time to spare.

[Chomag]

Sorry, guys, you're getting nerfed. Whenever I roll a new class, it's nerfed within a matter of weeks, and I rerolled a sorc 3 days ago. Clock's ticking.

[Cellenia]

didnt read whole thread:D

 

But when i read "bh has heavy armor"

 

oh yes...mighty heavy armor! or not?

When i look @ damage reduce from armor i just see:

 

sorc: ~20% dr

bounty: ~30% dr

(same geared)

 

life? hmm....near same?

 

so lets have a look @ bubble...absorbs around 3k dmg?

 

little simulation:

 

3k dmg hits

 

sorc get 3k dmg -->bubble down, full health

heavy armor guy get 2,7k dmg (10% less)

-2,7k health /300 dr

-2,7k health /600

-2,7k /900

-2,7k /1200

-2,7k /1500

-2,7k /1800

-2,7k /2100

[dead]

-2,7k /2400

-2,7k /2700

-2,7k /3000 reached bubble absorb yeah....!!!

 

HMM.....tooo bad that when we reached the absorb from ONE bubble, we already got 27.000 dmg and are DEAD since some time.....

 

but mighty heavy armor rules and sorcs are squishy!!!

 

PS:

and dont forget that sorcs have many nice utility skills/options (not only bubble) in change for weaker armor....

[Proppa]

It isn't the shield itself that's bad. It's the shield plus everything else they can do. It's the fact they seem to have the best synergy out of most of the other classes.

 

A bubble every 20 seconds is a lot in pvp when you aren't always in constant combat.

 

The biggest problem I have is in huttball when inquisitors have one of the best knockbacks, have a 30m stun, can bubble and do their speed increase while carrying the ball.

 

A 3k "absorb" every 20 seconds may sound like a lot, but when you take constant hits above 3k, it really isnt.

 

One of the best knockbacks? 8 meters (unless they are the madness spec I believe where it has a short root also), compared to the merc's I think knockback, which is about 15m or so?

 

They can do their speed increase.... so what do you call a Marauder who charges the line with invulnerability up, given that it's on a shorter re-use?

 

People really need to take a step back and do some research before making random claims. There are what, 4 Sorcerer specs, 1 heal, 1 cc and 2 damage? As everyone has said, it is just constant DPS like DoT's, the likelyhood is they will only kill light classes / noobs 1on1, so most of the time they are just stacking damage on multiple people which gradually escallates. Whereas DPS classes can normally burst and kill their target in a much shorter time frame, so they then have to make their way to the next target. Whereas the sorcerer, normally has everyone gunning straight for him.

[Proppa]

Cellenia, your also missing the fact that Bounty Hunters get Defensive Bonus and such which helps with resists/parries etc which will make them be hit less frequently.

 

Look for that youtube video of a bounty hunter standing up to like 4/5 people, then try and find one where the sorc does the same thing.

[Cellenia]

oh yes....

 

25% dr shield for 12secs with 2min cd?

medipack -->+15% health

and then 3min cd 15% of life hot over 10sec!

 

how many bubbles can you activate in our cd time of 3minutes? (~10->30k absorb?)

 

When bubble get a 2-3min cd..we could discuss more.

 

But bubble isnt the only thing which a sorc has more ....

 

 

 

Just start playing an arsenal bounty or commando trooper and you will FEEl the differences;)

 

 

PS:

i play powertech/vanguard, so that no one could argue "op bounty rocket spammer":D