DarthxRage Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sages/Sorcerers are some of the toughest things I come across in Warzones to kill, but I certainly don't think they can absorb damage as well as I can as a tank. I think one thing that does need to be looked at is how crit works in pvp. When popping cds, it is very easy for a dps class to stack crits and roll my shield chance off the table completely. If my shield chance is not going to work when I need it most, that incentivizes me to stack defense and then skip shield/absorb to just work on my dps. Taugrim.com discusses this mechanic in greater detail on a recent blog post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) always nice to see teamwork and people who understand the possibilities that it brings Guard, taunt and healer hiding somewhere make everyone unkillable. Also lol at "tanks" thinking that shielding and absorb and energy/kineetic mitigation are useless in pvp. Just lol. Edited January 24, 2012 by KorwinOfAmber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I thought this thread was talking about Commando/Mercs (~30% migition + proc buff from Tracer + energy shield), who often do effectively mitigate beter than tanks even though they're also DPS and can heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raque Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The most effective spec I have seen seems to be a bit of a hybrid with most into the Tactics tree, going toward a DPS build. Why should a tank have to spec DPS to have a useful role in a WZ? Are you crazy? Tanks are AWESOME in pvp in SWTOR! Sure they are not powerhouse DPSers or great healers, but really tanks shouldn't be. They are indestructible support members. Tanks debuff targets so the DPS can kill them or debuff them so they do less DPS themselves. Guard itself is crazy OP. Harass healers with CC, knockbacks, interrupts, etc and you prevent them from doing their job. Prevent range from setting up and turretting locations. A well played tank can turn the table on entire battles with their sheer amount of support they provide. In organized play they are simply outstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizerai Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Shields count as healing and protection. What server are you on? I'm switching - because I've never gotten a single Protection medal on my crappy server. Edited January 24, 2012 by jizerai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxion Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Are you crazy? Tanks are AWESOME in pvp in SWTOR! Sure they are not powerhouse DPSers or great healers, but really tanks shouldn't be. They are indestructible support members. Tanks debuff targets so the DPS can kill them or debuff them so they do less DPS themselves. Guard itself is crazy OP. Harass healers with CC, knockbacks, interrupts, etc and you prevent them from doing their job. Prevent range from setting up and turretting locations. A well played tank can turn the table on entire battles with their sheer amount of support they provide. In organized play they are simply outstanding! I agree, guard is great. Knockbacks? What knockbacks, as a 50 Vanguard I don't have any. I admit, I only have one peice of expertise gear at the moment and that does make a big difference, but I am nowhere near 'indestructable' and I don't expect to be, but would like to have more suvivability than a Commando for example. What talent spec? Edited January 24, 2012 by Loxion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsirisZoran Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 bad troll is bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikroh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've seen countless warzones ending with (always) a sage/sorc sitting on 150-250k damage and 250-400k healing, on top of 75-100k protection, no other class even CLOSE. Sure, other classes will pump 300k damage, but no healing whatsoever. Thanks for showing us you have no idea what you are talking about and are just making stuff up. A sorcerer will never have any protection points at the end of a match. I can see how you might be confused since Assassins have the same icon as Sorcerers, but believe it or not they are not the same AC. Please stop spreading misinformation and actually backup your claims. Static barrier does not and never has given credit for protection on the scoreboard/medals. At the end of these matches where Sorcerers are getting any protection, screenshot the scoreboard. I would love to see any proof of your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleamscythe Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Okay, ffs how was this not been brought up... SORCS DON'T HAVE A MEANS OF PROVIDING PROTECTION! Their shield counts as healing, even if it is cast on others. I've never seen such a collection of a**hats spewing out "facts." Are sorcs/sages too good? Maybe. Are they too good because they're tanks? Hell no. They are horrible tanks and if focused are dropped extremely fast. Terrible trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stabit Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I must be using the wrong shield. Wheres the one that lets me tank better then a tank and gives me protection medals in pvp? Maybe that was a collectors edition bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 HAHA the OP has me in stitches. Have you never seen how long a geared out powertech lasts????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferyClark Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Ya, thats it, I must be awful. I never said anything about tank gear, but just gear in general as being naked is the ONLY way a tank would take more damage then a Sorc. You realize our shield only mitigates 3-4k damage and can only be applied every 20 seconds (17 with 2 piece healer set bonus). As I wear cloth armor, the armor I wear mitigates very little unlike a tank's gear. I have ~15.5k ish health in my pvp gear and equally geared tanks are in the ~19k ish range so even with my shield we have about the same HP to death but I have no mitigation, no defensive cooldowns, and longer refresh timers on my control cooldowns. You are crazy if you do not think tanks can mitigate more damage, especially with defensive cooldowns, and control they have they are crazy indestructible. Ummm... heavy armor doesn't mitigate anything but someone whacking us with a lightsaber or other blunt object or someone using regular old autofire blaster shots....... I WISH our armor/shield combo could mitigate 3-4k damage every 20 seconds! Seriously, your Sorc lightning hits for the same whether I am wearing my armor/shield or not. Edited January 24, 2012 by JefferyClark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thanks for showing us you have no idea what you are talking about and are just making stuff up. A sorcerer will never have any protection points at the end of a match. I can see how you might be confused since Assassins have the same icon as Sorcerers, but believe it or not they are not the same AC. Please stop spreading misinformation and actually backup your claims. Static barrier does not and never has given credit for protection on the scoreboard/medals. At the end of these matches where Sorcerers are getting any protection, screenshot the scoreboard. I would love to see any proof of your claims. Actually I think what happens is that since there are so many SI characters, people just see the 6 'lightning' icons and add the top stats of each category together, so you're taking the top stats of say 4 Sorcerers + 2 Assassins, and yeah, that'd definitely be pretty formidable seeing a guy doing 400K DPS, 400K healed, and 100K protection even though it's actually 3 different guys' stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ummm... heavy armor doesn't mitigate anything but someone whacking us with a lightsaber or other blunt object or someone using regular old autofire blaster shots....... Armor mitigates almost everything in this game. The common mistake people make is thinking lightning bypasses armor. It does not, because lightnign is energy damage, not elemental damage. Armor-bypassing attacks are very rare in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Okay, ffs how was this not been brought up... SORCS DON'T HAVE A MEANS OF PROVIDING PROTECTION! Their shield counts as healing, even if it is cast on others. I've never seen such a collection of a**hats spewing out "facts." Are sorcs/sages too good? Maybe. Are they too good because they're tanks? Hell no. They are horrible tanks and if focused are dropped extremely fast. Terrible trolls. Funny how nobody noticed that hes mixing up assassins and sorcs huh? Best thread ever. Sorcs and Sages have GUARD! Nerf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferyClark Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Armor mitigates almost everything in this game. The common mistake people make is thinking lightning bypasses armor. It does not, because lightnign is energy damage, not elemental damage. Armor-bypassing attacks are very rare in PvP. Then explain how a lightning attack does the same damage whether I wear my armor or not. Don't believe me, roll a Jedi Guardian to 50, get a friend to roll a Sorc and go to Tatooine and test for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'll chime in on this. I'm a 550 expertise 54 valor 400 biochem sin. I can kill tanks easier than a good sorc/sage. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Well, if you think of a shield as just another heal instead of "mitigation" then I don't see what the problem is. It's on a cooldown and it only absorbs something like 2500 damage. There is nothing terribly OP about that. It can be preloaded, and is instant. And protects against other things too. Edited January 24, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizerai Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Actually I think what happens is that since there are so many SI characters, people just see the 6 'lightning' icons and add the top stats of each category together, so you're taking the top stats of say 4 Sorcerers + 2 Assassins, and yeah, that'd definitely be pretty formidable seeing a guy doing 400K DPS, 400K healed, and 100K protection even though it's actually 3 different guys' stats. As a decent geared Sorcerer (missing two pieces of Champion gear), in a hybrid-spec, I usually do around 200-300k damage and 100-150k healing. In healing spec, those numbers are pretty much reversed. There is nothing that "OP" about it if you ask me. I've seen people do a ton more of damage and healing for that matter. The Shield drops very fast if we are focused - and so do we. In conclusion. Yes. You might just be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posixgod Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't get it. A *DPS* spec'd sorc/sage can mitigate more damage done to them than a tank in PVP with the way shields currently scale. Why is this? Why is a sorc/sage practically unkillable while my tank melts in a matter of seconds? Why are sorc/sages able to tank in PVP better than actual tanks? The way the shield scales is crazy at the moment. Seriously. Something has to give. Either nerf it or make it a talent in the healing tree high up. There's absolutely no reason that the 'glass cannon' should be mitigating more damage than a tank in PVP. With shields, sorc/sages can mitigate up to 15k damage vs a single person, in a single fight (multiple shields). When you see 3 dps unable to kill a sorc, yet the same 3 dps can drop your tank in under 4 seconds.. well; something is wrong. All this on the class with the highest mobility in the game, the most group utility, some of the highest healing and high damage. See the problem here? They get the best of ALL THREE WORLDS. They mitigate massive damage like tanks. They heal AMAZING amounts like healers.(I see sorcs regularly get 300-400k healing, no other class comes close) They go AMAZING dps like DPS. They are the holy trinity all in one (in pvp) On top of aoe knockbacks, friendly pulls, etc etc etc...and people wonder why there's so many? Want to tank in PVP? Roll a sorc. Want to heal in PVP? Roll a sorc. Want to DPS in PVP?.............roll a sorc come on this is seriously ridiculous You're wrong, also, DPS spec'd healing as a sorc is a JOKE, it's not viable at all... If you fought someone Spec'd as a HEALER, i'd expect you to have a little more difficult of a time. Saying sorc's mitigate damage period is just plain ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raque Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I agree, guard is great. Knockbacks? What knockbacks, as a 50 Vanguard I don't have any. I admit, I only have one peice of expertise gear at the moment and that does make a big difference, but I am nowhere near 'indestructable' and I don't expect to be, but would like to have more suvivability than a Commando for example. What talent spec? I said tanks in general, not Vanguards. Once you gear up, you will be near indestructible. I can honestly say that as a Sorcerer, I do not think I could kill a well played tank 1v1 in any BG, why? Simply it would tank me so long that I am sure help from one side or the other will show up to help finish the job. Your armor significantly mitigates all but 2 of my abilities (Affliction & Death Field) and along with your debuffs will lower my DPS so we will end up doing about the same DPS to each other. With my bubble we have similar health pools. So unless I can successfully kite the tank (which would mean the tank is simply bad) the person with the least abilities on cool down is the one with the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payneintherear Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) And protects against other things too. The one good thing about the shield is that it protects you against ignorance. People ave not believed me in the past, so I told them to roll the class and see for themselves. Sure enough they have been much more educated since they acquired "the bubble of doom" and have yet to whine about it being too good...in fact, they think the internal CD is too long. Edited January 24, 2012 by Payneintherear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raque Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ummm... heavy armor doesn't mitigate anything but someone whacking us with a lightsaber or other blunt object or someone using regular old autofire blaster shots....... I WISH our armor/shield combo could mitigate 3-4k damage every 20 seconds! Seriously, your Sorc lightning hits for the same whether I am wearing my armor/shield or not. Learn your class. Your armor mitigates everything I can do except Affliction, a slow 18 second DoT and the Death Field AoE. All other damage a Sorc does is either Energy or Kinetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balmuck Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I wish my **** absorbed 15k... Guess the grass is always greener on the other side. I dare you to get a Sage or a Sorc to 50 and back up those claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CounterfeitBubba Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I so hate people who yell and scream for nerfs. The better sokution is to ask for buffs to your class or others to compensate. Nerfs only hurt the game but increasing other classes makes everyone happy. Thank about it before you cry for nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts