Nerf all DPS classes?

[Beyaco]

People are going to cry this game into mediocrity. Ops/Scoundrels just got hit. Who is next? Commando/BH? Sorcs/Sages? Assassins/Shadows? So, all DPS classes are OP from what I have gathered from the forums. What a shocker!

 

I think people need to step back and realize what they are asking for. Every time a class is nerfed, people quit. Your response might be "Good riddance" or whatever. That attitude is one that will drive this game into the ground. Don't get me wrong, SWTOR isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. But, once you start to see server merges and whole guilds quitting over a "patch" then you had better realize what you asked for.

 

To be 100% honest, I would much rather see everybody who visits these forum regularly to quit, rather than the guy who is enjoying the game. The devs had better realize that major nerfs should have happened during beta...They should have had a 50's pvp weekend where you could roll any 50 and have tokens for ALL of the end game gear.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Beyaco

[Aghar]

Just because a class got nerfed a tiny bit, does not mean the sky is falling. Changes will always happen, some will be buffs some will be nerfs. This is just part of playing an MMO. Being all doom and gloom like your post will do nothing but fan flames. They do not use the forums to make game choices, they only use the forums to bring issues to their attention. After the issue is brought up they carefully study the data they have (just because the client does not have a combat log does not mean they cant keep track of damage output). Also they can pull from a huge sample size rather quickly to get their data.

 

 

Going all end of the world is just a drama call and trying to stir up trouble.

[chton]

The next class nerfed will be the next one the community decides is "OPed", then after that one is nerfed, it'll be the next one viewed this way. No one ever wants to wait and see if different tactics work or what not. Who ever is beating them is obviously OP, and if people complain about their class they obviously need to L2P. this is how MMO PVP works people. If I don't always win, it must be some OP class. If I always win it's because I'm uber and you suck.

[Kholvan]

/signed

 

Oh, wait - this was a sarcastic thread title.

[shdwklown]

The next class nerfed will be the next one the community decides is "OPed", then after that one is nerfed, it'll be the next one viewed this way. No one ever wants to wait and see if different tactics work or what not. Who ever is beating them is obviously OP, and if people complain about their class they obviously need to L2P. this is how MMO PVP works people. If I don't always win, it must be some OP class. If I always win it's because I'm uber and you suck.

 

Exactly. Why would anyone learn tactics or attempt to counter what someone is doing in a fight. When instead they can simply go to the forums, throw a temper tantrum and let the devs solve their issues.

 

Rock: Nerf paper, scissors are fine.

[Beyaco]

Just because a class got nerfed a tiny bit, does not mean the sky is falling. Changes will always happen, some will be buffs some will be nerfs. This is just part of playing an MMO. Being all doom and gloom like your post will do nothing but fan flames. They do not use the forums to make game choices, they only use the forums to bring issues to their attention. After the issue is brought up they carefully study the data they have (just because the client does not have a combat log does not mean they cant keep track of damage output). Also they can pull from a huge sample size rather quickly to get their data.

 

 

Going all end of the world is just a drama call and trying to stir up trouble.

 

Nothing doom and gloom about it. Just a warning from a guy that has played a lot of mmo's and watched a lot of mmo's fail. End of the world? This game being "just another mmo" is not the end of the world. But, it would be sad to see. It's 1 class from both factions that was nerfed. How many of those people quit? That would be the reason I made this post. A warning to people that want to nerf every DPS class. Read the boards if you want to see "end of the world" type of posts. From what I gathered, sorcs/sages or bh/mandos are getting hit next because the forum is on fire with posts talking about them.

 

I am not disputing that the devs have spreadsheets with tons of statistics. Guess what, we are not here to beta. this game is live and we are paying to play, not test. To have a class nerfed the first month just shows how much more testing this game needed before going live.

 

No mmo can have "balanced" classes and still be considered a mmorpg. You can have 2 factions with true mirrored classes that would end the faction imbalance. But as far as balancing a tank with a healer and dps...Good luck. People will always, and I do mean always, cry about something.

[Beyaco]

Exactly. Why would anyone learn tactics or attempt to counter what someone is doing in a fight. When instead they can simply go to the forums, throw a temper tantrum and let the devs solve their issues.

 

Rock: Nerf paper, scissors are fine.

 

That was hilarious, lol!

[Aghar]

 

I am not disputing that the devs have spreadsheets with tons of statistics. Guess what, we are not here to beta. this game is live and we are paying to play, not test. To have a class nerfed the first month just shows how much more testing this game needed before going live.

 

 

All mmo's are in a constant state of change, as you said true balance is impossible. So technically we are in what is known in the gaming industry as a live beta. Every mmo is in this stage from release till they close the servers.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Aghar

[Vlaid]

If people quit because a class gets nerfed, MMO's are not for them.

 

Classes regularly need to be nerfed, buffed or changed as gear progresses. Damage, healing and various aspects of classes simply scale at different rates with different levels of stats available.

 

A class that was underpowered two tiers of gear ago with absolutely no game changes since could suddenly be overpowered because they got enough alacrity to blow people up inside their 1 cc, or something of similar effect.

 

MMO's change. If you can't handle change, MMO's just aren't a good expenditure of your free time. MMO's that stay the same, stagnate and become garbage relatively quickly. One of the biggest reasons WoW is still such a behemoth is because they know the genre is about change. You don't pay 30 bucks a month every month to play the same game you played a couple years ago. You want a living thing you pay money to access.

 

So the second Bioware STOPS nerfing clases that need it, that is when I'll unsub. But never because of some nerdrage emotional tantrum about not being able to handle a nerf to my chosen class or someone elses.

[Putriss]

The problem is that the more people that quit, the less money the game gets, thus the less content they push out, affecting YOU. Another problem is that people feel that because people cried the loudest about operatives, they got the nerf bat 1st, without any time for 1.1 to really hit and justify the nerf (This is not my view). My view is that they did a band-aid fix to the problem of our critical damage being too high. Well we shall see how it all plays out, this game is more interesting than Rift and WoW for the time being.

[Terrestrial]

Imagine that you are trying to sand down a piece of wood.

 

But instead of really understanding what you are doing, you just keep sanding. Now certain parts of the wood are uneven.

 

Well, let's keep on sanding!

 

Hmm, still not right.... keep grinding it down.

 

At last! No rough edges, everything is equal.

 

Because the wood is gone.

 

Stop calling for any class to be nerfed. Ask in your own class forum for improvements and let Bioware sort this out.

 

When every class plays the same way and has the same damage and abilities, they will all SUCK. And so will the game.

[Bionixx]

From the creators of "OMG, they nerfed slicing, the sky is falling!" and "OMG, they nerfed biochem, the sky is falling!" we bring you:

 

OMG, they nerfed Ops/Scoundrels, the sky is falling!

 

The nerf was needed. Was it overnerfed? Maybe but I'd take an overnerfed least played class over an overpowered one. Also, I'm laughing my *** off at all the level 30-45 Flavor of the Month scoundreals/operatives who rerolled and are in fact the majority of the people complaining because they didn't get to take people from 100% to dead in 2 seconds.

[chillinvillain]

While Ops/Scound need tuning, the did an overkill nerf of both PVP and PVE. That's what we are "QQing about". It was an over the top nerf. I'll agree we needed a nerf.

 

Now if you want my personal opinion of what's really wrong: they need to look at crit and surge and tune it. Personally I think there is a major problem with stims + adrenals + (tack on also expertise buffs and relics as well) + current crit/surge ratings. My hidden strike, non-crit, hits for less than 1.5k when it doesn't crit mostly in WZs. Against very PVP geared opponents it hits for 1065 or lower (I've seen as low as 814). It still crits for 3995 (this is after a respec to out of full Concealment and a large drop in crit+surge due to Champ and Columni armor stacking power/acc instead of crit/surge).

 

This is the case across the board. Then you couple that with crit chance...I mean I've seen Troopers/BH's get continual crits on me, killing me from full (17.5k hp buffed) in <30 seconds. Sorcs/Consulars hitting near 1.5k continual crits on channeled abilities that are spammable with the "shock" style ability critting for 3k in between. Assassins with high crit and surge don't have the slightest problem hitting 3k crits consistently over the course of a battle (and I"m talking on non-position dependent abilities here). Guildmate has a video of his death field (AOE) consistently critting for 2.6-4k damage. Juggs in my guild get 5k crits off smash (AOE).

 

So, I ask, if all the DPS is "OP" they need to be looking and tuning not the abilities, but what's making them hit "harder than planned".

 

My class got nerfed because we were "killing people faster" than BW wanted us to (<15 seconds apparently is the cap on this). My AC tree, mind you, is single target non-sustained DPS with no instant AOE, no gap closer, no knockback, no instant heal (unless you count a 3 second trickle of 230HP from revitalizers on stimboost), a weak sheild, 1 knock down that requires position and stealth, one combat stun (negated if knockdown is used due to full resolve instantly given to opponent), and our 4 primary abilities reliant on stealth or positioning or procs (3 of 4), and all our kills are based on crits. No crit = no "instant kills".

 

Again, I do think we needed tuning, but overall there is something much more deeply wrong with the crits all DPS is getting, but only the highest burst damage in game was focused for the first nerf...and an extreme nerf was given.

Edited January 24, 2012 by chillinvillain

[Beyaco]

From the creators of "OMG, they nerfed slicing, the sky is falling!" and "OMG, they nerfed biochem, the sky is falling!" we bring you:

 

OMG, they nerfed Ops/Scoundrels, the sky is falling!

 

The nerf was needed. Was it overnerfed? Maybe but I'd take an overnerfed least played class over an overpowered one. Also, I'm laughing my *** off at all the level 30-45 Flavor of the Month scoundreals/operatives who rerolled and are in fact the majority of the people complaining because they didn't get to take people from 100% to dead in 2 seconds.

 

I think you missed the point of the original post. Point was, you can't keep nerfing stuff and expect to build a new community every time. People quit. You may say "good, I would have quit if they didn't nerf the class". My response: I would rather see everybody who visits these boards regularly to quit, rather than to see all of the people enjoying the game quit. There is a trickle down effect that happens when you start swinging the nerf bat. People quit, guilds fall apart, servers become underpopulated, and the game spirals into mediocrity. Don't say that nerfing has a positive effect on mmo's. I can't think of any time that the nerf bat swung, and it increased population...It is something that needs to be done in beta.

 

Another point I was trying to make, was every other post in the pvp forum is asking for a nerf. I am seeing tons of people asking to nerf sage/sorc and commando/bh. How about we buff the other classes that seem to be crying? I know I regularly see different classes top the board in DPS. I am assuming when a guy puts up 3-4-500k in a match, he was regularly hitting 2-4k. So, in my book, all DPS classes are OP in one way or another. I am seeing people wanting nerfs, when it is a gear gap. A *fill in the class* in full champ/bm will dominate a match if everybody else has on regular gear. Is his class OP, or his gear?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Beyaco

[Biboonz]

i say fix pvp and make every one have to /rock or /paper or /scissors to decide the winner of the fight. This is fair and balanced.

[Piriste]

Nerfs are needed, balance is not perfect.

 

But these all are small tweaks! BW just panicked when they heard about the Operative whine because it was so huge and everywhere and are apparently over nerfing them.

 

BUT! The patch is not yet implemented. i think they come around.

 

The only nerfs that i feel are required:

 

- Slight reduce to Sage/Sorc shields

- Slight reduce to Operative/Scoundrel burst

- Roots/Snares account for Resolve

- No slows/stuns/roots apply when resolve is on

 

And boost:

- Resolve needs to stay on longer.

[Vashiel]

I think it's funny. If every class is considered OP, it kind of makes you start to wonder if the game is, in fact, quite balanced.

 

It's like when both kids think Mom or Dad love the other one more. To me, that's pretty good parenting.

[Biboonz]

dude don't go around spreading comon sense its not fair lol

[spagnitz]

Nerf ALL the things!!

[biowareftw]

People are going to cry this game into mediocrity. Ops/Scoundrels just got hit. Who is next? Commando/BH? Sorcs/Sages? Assassins/Shadows? So, all DPS classes are OP from what I have gathered from the forums. What a shocker!

 

I think people need to step back and realize what they are asking for. Every time a class is nerfed, people quit. Your response might be "Good riddance" or whatever. That attitude is one that will drive this game into the ground. Don't get me wrong, SWTOR isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. But, once you start to see server merges and whole guilds quitting over a "patch" then you had better realize what you asked for.

 

To be 100% honest, I would much rather see everybody who visits these forum regularly to quit, rather than the guy who is enjoying the game. The devs had better realize that major nerfs should have happened during beta...They should have had a 50's pvp weekend where you could roll any 50 and have tokens for ALL of the end game gear.

 

Correction the WORST pve dmg AC just got nerfed to the ground. It was already horrible in pve and just became completely useless. Also hybrids are not dmg classes. They are hybrids except when they can't heal for jack as a melee, because they just self kite themselves from kill targets and when they can't spec into giving other people shields (baseline for sorc/sage) or any heal talents (easily reachable GOOD heal talents for commandos/mercs) because they need those talents for dmg and CC.

 

So yeah...the dps hybrid closest to a pure that couldn't offer guard taunt was nerfed. Somehow the ranged classes with easier rotations, better healing (sage/sorce healing/bubbling other people is simply stupid for a dps spec) are not nerfed.

 

They also happen to be the most played. I don't think you will find many smuggler/scoundrels to cry tears when the two easiest classes that are by far the most OP atm are nerfed. We don't want them nerfed to the ground though...

 

Cus we aren't scrubnubs who sit on the forum on a crusade 24/7 in an attempt to get our counter class nerfed.

 

We all rerolled sent/marauders anyways. FOTM scrubs can't handle playing them (too difficult) and they are a PURE dps spec. Safest bet...because assassins/shadows are a tad too simple and they are stealth which leads to QQ.

 

Besides I can now dominate pve and pvp on one class. FOTM scrubs could kill people fast on a scoundrel but they were still 100-200 k warzone dmg below ranged unless they were good. Instead of increasing out of stealth dmg. Bioware/EA just said screw it. Break the class completely.

 

If you are playing a easy to play hybrid and think it won't be nerfed to the ground? Think again. Otherwise this game will be dead in a few months. Bioware/EA is dumb, but they can also see people leaving left and right and all merc/sorc in 10-49 warzones. I see more merc/sorc then I ever did operatives lol.

 

You get dmg, you get CC or you get decent offheals. You don't get all 3. When you do? Game is broke.

[Fujah]

It happens in every MMO. Either let it go and live with it or find a new Genre.

[Darth_Vampirius]

People are going to cry this game into mediocrity. Ops/Scoundrels just got hit. Who is next? Commando/BH? Sorcs/Sages? Assassins/Shadows? So, all DPS classes are OP from what I have gathered from the forums. What a shocker!

 

I think people need to step back and realize what they are asking for. Every time a class is nerfed, people quit. Your response might be "Good riddance" or whatever. That attitude is one that will drive this game into the ground. Don't get me wrong, SWTOR isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. But, once you start to see server merges and whole guilds quitting over a "patch" then you had better realize what you asked for.

 

To be 100% honest, I would much rather see everybody who visits these forum regularly to quit, rather than the guy who is enjoying the game. The devs had better realize that major nerfs should have happened during beta...They should have had a 50's pvp weekend where you could roll any 50 and have tokens for ALL of the end game gear.

 

I agree that they will cry the game into medoicrity. Instead of buffing the classes that need buffs, they will nerf so much that they game will die.

 

Melee as a whole needs buffed. Medals need to be balanced out. Objectives need to be rewarded. Ilum needs another overhaul. The RNG needs to be removed from PVP. Instead of wasting time on the FOTM design theory and nerfing every class 1 by 1, they need to work on some serious issues.

 

Force choke, for example, should be instant cast, not channeled.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Darth_Vampirius

[Dominemesis]

My class got nerfed because we were "killing people faster" than BW wanted us to (<15 seconds apparently is the cap on this). My AC tree, mind you, is single target non-sustained DPS with no instant AOE, no gap closer, no knockback, no instant heal (unless you count a 3 second trickle of 230HP from revitalizers on stimboost), a weak sheild, 1 knock down that requires position and stealth, one combat stun (negated if knockdown is used due to full resolve instantly given to opponent), and our 4 primary abilities reliant on stealth or positioning or procs (3 of 4), and all our kills are based on crits. No crit = no "instant kills".

 

 

This does an excellent job of explaining how folk's misunderstanding the niche of Ops/Scoundrels, namely to very likely, with good timing, positioning, and tactics, pretty much kill one target and then get turned into goo immediately afterwards, got the class nerfed to death.

 

To everyone who posts making statements of WoW did this, and WoW did that...then please go the **** back to WoW! Some of us got into a new game because we were gosh darn tired of WoW and want to see things done differently.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Dominemesis

[mandrillagon]

Its too late. So what ops/scoundrels get the nerf and then all other dps cry for the nerf train to stop? All other dps classes need to become as useless as scoundrels and operative now to be in line and fair. Commandos should definitely be next on the nerf block as well. Ranged, self healing, no cooldown 2.5-3k (considering biochem buffs or not) spammable crits at range, knockback, heavy armor, bubble, etc. This god class needs to be taken down in several areas.

 

Scoundrels were hard nerfed in not just one but two of their top tier abilities which shows Bioware will listen and act hard.

[Mohawksinspace]

This does an excellent job of explaining how folk's misunderstanding the niche of Ops/Scoundrels, namely to very likely, with good timing, positioning, and tactics, pretty much kill one target and then get turned into goo immediately afterwards, got the class nerfed to death.

 

OPs/Scoundrels could basically pick a person, and no matter how good they were and kill them. OPs/Scoundrels that were good players could escape afterwards.